4 yrs old Meal Time Issue

[Lou]

Hi ladies!
I was hoping for some helpful suggestions. I've taken on a temporary contract of 4 yrs old twins for 3 months. They are our next door neighbours which makes the situation increasingly awkward to discuss with the parents/our friends.
The rule at my house (and please let me know if you think I'm being unreasonable), is that they must finish their meal before they can go play and if there is something that they REALLY dislike that must at least try a bite before they can be finished.
All of the kids have no issues with this rule and usually clean their plates anyways! Well, one of the 4 yrs olds (they started tihs week), is having a terrile time really following any of the house rules. We are working on this, but it's the meal time that's really getting my feathers ruffled. The veggie in today's lunch was yellow peppers...he ate everything else and pushed his plate away and said "I don't like peppers". So I responded saying that it's great to try new things and so to take a bite and he can go play. Well, the kids one by one all around him finished, got their small dessert, then went to play and he just sat their making ridiculous whining noises. I reminded him a few times that all he needs to do is take one bite and then he can be all done. So while the kids played, he sat for about 10 minutes after everyone had left the table. So I sat with him and explained the rules again, and why it's important to eat our vegetables, etc and he full out burst into tears and started screaming!!! I'm guessing that this is a fine way for him to get his way at home so I didn't relent but after 10 minutes of a full out 4 yrs old tantrum,I removed him from the table, told him that he wasn't getting dessert today and put him in our cozy corner to calm himself down. I HATE that I gave in, HATE IT!!! But it went on for so long that I had to put the littles to bed, and he couldn't be screaming while they're trying to sleep. After he calmed down, we discussed again and he apologized (another thing we are working on because he acts like a baby when we are problem solving/apologizing.) This isn't the first time either that he's given me a very hard time during meals, just the first time it ended in a full blown tantrum.
GRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!
I think my "rule" is reasonable...exposin g them to different tastes, and healthy foods. One bite is reasonable to me and all of the other kids.
Any helpful hints?? Or anyone been in the same situation???

[Sandbox Sally]

I think your rule is reasonable too. I don't have any pearls of wisdom on this one, but I will offer a virutal hug. :) I think that he might think twice next time, especially after the cosy corner. Day by day...deep breaths. lol

[sunnydays]

Although I do think your rule is reasonable, I am not sure that I would be bothered with it for a temporary care situation. I guess it depends if the other kids notice and complain (depends on their ages), but I wouldn't force him to try it if he's eaten his other food. I actually just serve 2-3 items for a lunch and they eat what they want and leave what they don't like. I like your rule, but wouldn't have the energy to force picky toddlers to try things they don't eat at home:laugh:

[playfelt]

Making a toddler try a new food is one thing but at what point do you allow a child to determine that they really don't like a certain food or type of texture and be able to say no thank you - these are 4 year olds afterall. That is a lot of trying potentially.

I don't have the take a bit rule but I do have the finish what is on your plate before dessert since that is an extra for those that are still hungry and not one of the basic food groups on their plate. After the last child that is going to has eaten, been cleaned up and left the table, I just declare the meal over and too late to finish eating. The plate is removed and the child is washed and sent off. I don't force them to eat, but don't reward them for not eating either. Everyone comes to the table and is served a plate of food and is free to eat, stare at it, whatever just not toss it, dump it, or play in it - if you are over 18 months. They also have to sit politely and just look at it - playing and it gets removed - it is a meal not a toy.

As mentioned for 3 months I wouldn't push it. But one reminder that we eat and then get dessert is all that is necessary. Then if he is the last one at the table which he likely will be every day, clean up around him and then say ok fine meal done. Then let him go. The others won't know he didnt' take a bite.

[KingstonMom]

I think I am a bit more leanient on this topic of food.
Today we had hot dogs for lunch (it was a quiet movie day and I didnt feel like the hassle of a big lunch and thought everybody liked hotdogs (as they did last time we had them)
4yr old girl decides that she no longer likes hotdogs. no problem, my son ate hers and I made her a peanut biutter sandwich.
I have no problem with kids not liking something, and I do offer to make up a quick something else for them. I dont care if they dont eat their veg I offered, but I do always offer a vegetable with every meal and/or snack.
Alot of food gets thrown out here, and I wish I had a dog to eat the scraps!
I couldnt be bothered fighting with kids to eat their food, thats just me. I never offer a treat or dessert here, so theres no real reward to finish their meal. The odd time I will re-serve their lunch in place of their afternoon snack if they didnt touch it and I know for a fact they like the lunch I served.

I agree that for the 3 months they are here, whatever, praise the kids who do finish their plates, and hope they dont notice when others dont!

[carla]

Children only control 2 things in this world what they eat and when they go to the washroom. Why reward eating everything with a "treat" do you serve the food or do they self serve? Please do not say it is not doable because it is we do it with 91 daycare kids. What if a child really does not like a food and you make him have one bite and he throws up( have seen it happen) if someone were to tell me to have one bite of a Brussels sprout I would puke. If you are offering all healthy food then does it matter if he had one bite of pepper. Afternoon snack could be a veggie plate. offer yellow peppers every couple days and
Maybe he will like them one day

[playfelt]

Carla do you mean your one and two year olds self serve? When you have 5 kids at a table there is no sense in wasting bowls for two of the five to self serve since they would only get what was left over from me serving the infants and toddlers anyways. The little ones can't even manage their own spoon to feed themselves let alone use a serving spoon. Really not sure that is appropriate in most home care situations unless you have no under twos.

[mom-in-alberta]

I wouldn't make him eat it personally. My rule is: I make it, I serve it, you choose whether you will eat it. Each snack has two food groups and each snack has a protein, a carb and a veg/fruit. That usually allows enough choice that if someone doesn't like one thing, at least they won't starve.
I do enforce the rule that you must finish your plate before you have seconds, or dessert (which we don't usually have at lunch anyway). Otherwise everyone eats just the noodles, and doesn't touch the meatballs or the veggies. Not fair. That is also the reason that I will dish up the kids plates, as well.
I would keep offering it... what do they say, sometimes it takes 6 or 8 exposures to a new food before a child will decide they like it? But I have told parents that I will not "force" their child to eat something. Man alive; I don't get paid enough to deal with that kind of anxiety (mine or the child's!).

[dodge__driver11]

For me, and my dayhome, I just serve things..If they dont eat them ok, then I serve it a different way and see what happens. For example....If they do not like peas I hide them in a stew, if they don't like peppers I chop them in a stirfry...Just keep offering and get creative, I often puree my vegiies and mix them in with something when kids protest and they don't even notice what I do LOL

[Crayola kiddies]

I think I would not force it since the child is only there for 3 months and I would just not put it on his plate As I hate throwing out food and the other kids would probably not notice .... You don't most likely don't get paid enough for the hassle and since they are your neighbors and you have to live near them you don't want any issues if the child goes home and says you are forcing him to eat what he doesn't like.....

[Lou]

Carla, I'm well aware that children can serve themselves as I've worked many years in formal childcare, however in my small setting I serve it for them. And no, the children do not get "rewarded" for eating their food, dessert is a rare event around here, I just happened to have baked cookies with the kids the day before so it was a nice treat for them. You might want to try responding to posts with a little less attitude and a little more helpful advice, thanks!

I approached lunch a little differently today, since I do not have the time or patience to wait until he finished, I gave them 30 minutes for lunch, gave them a 5 minute warning towards the end and cheerfully said "ok, lunch is over now!". He was trying veggies that he didn't love, but I was very proud of him for trying and let him know that too. I hadmentionedit to his parents the day before, they had a talk with him and his day has all around been so muchbetter today, yay!!!
Thank you all for the great advice/support!

[carla]

Yes the 2 year olds help serve themselves. We use measuring cups and the staff assist in them pouting or placing the food on the plates or placemats. The children under 2 do not self serve. The milk and water is in the smallest container we could find for the kids to pour from the staff do hand over hand to help pour. We had a family on a tour and they were amazed that the toddlers cleaned up
After themselves after lunch. (lol). The toddlers are so great when they put there bibs in the right bucket and scrap the plate after eating.

[playfelt]

I like to do the clean up so most of it gets cleaned up and doesn't land on the floor since I am the cook, server, supervisor, toileting/diapers/naptime tuck in crew as well as the janitor. I prefer to clean from the table not the floor. In home daycare we are a one person operation.

Even with hand washing, young kids will put their hands in their mouths while waiting for food. Self serving is actually one of the ways that unnecessary germs are spread as one child after the other handles the utensils. I see no benefit in the toddlers serving themselves when I still have to serve half the group anyways. As with other areas of development why do we insist on pushing children when they will master the task faster and more efficient even without lots of practice if we wait the extra year or two to introduce a task.

[Crayola kiddies]

It seems as though most of the practices/procedures for center/institution daycare do not really apply to home daycare. Home daycare providers have a max of 5 children at any given time and one set of hands so like another poster said to dirty extra bowls for two or three kids so they can do it them selves is rather counter productive ..... It's easier, faster and cleaner to just serve and probably less wasteful too as kids would often take too much. I like to serve balanced portions so that all is equal. ... But for the original poster I am glad to hear things went better with the new procedure.

[dodge__driver11]

I worked in daycare's before and though self serving drinks is a great idea to learn pouring we had one guy who would dump all the food on his plate EVERY DAY from the serving bowl, therefore we had to revert back to staff serving...so all in all it DOES NOT ALWAYS work, jus' saying:)

[Pick-a-boo]

I think your rules are very good. Once in a while my son's friends are coming to visit or for sleep over (7yo) and they are pickiest eaters ever. They don't eat veggies, fruits, etc. In our house we have similar rules and it works great. Does not finish his meal - no dessert. Some kids are very stubborn and it takes time and a lot of effort but at the end parents will be happy and the kids will benefit too.

[playfelt]

One of the big things to get around the connection between reward and dessert is to simply say the child ran out of time. That is what happens at my daycare and kids learn to talk less and eat faster too. After a reasonable amount of time and we are talking lunch taking an hour from come sit to wash and go so plenty of time is allowed and as they finish totally they go take off their shoes for nap and are allowed to watch tv - totally works as an incentive to eat faster too. Then I call them one at a time for potty/diaper, tuck in the little ones that go upstairs to playpens and then send the rest to their nap mats - love that the kids shows are often only 15 minutes long so I can wait till the end of the show. It's just what works here and makes for a smooth transition.

[carla]

i am sorry you think i am coming off with attidute but in no way do i mean to be. i am just stating what we do in our daycare. If you work in a daycare in alberta and you are accredited you have standards to keep in order to keep your accreitation. So not only do we have licencing standards we also have accred standards to do. and in the toddler room we have 12 kids and 2 staff so we have just as many kids as a dayhome if you do the ratio. once again i am sorry you think i am coming off with attitude. I did not relize this forum was only for dayhomes as it is daycare bear and sometimes the easiest road is not the best road. we had a very hard time when accred came in and required us to let the children self serve but with months of practise the children can now do it.

[playfelt]

Carla which of those two staff prepare, cook and clean up the kitchen after the meals? Actually a dayhome has 5 daycare children plus the caregivers own children so we are often dealing with 6-10 children on our own and they aren't all the same age so some of those may even be infants that need to be fed by the same caregiver that is cooking, serving, cleaning up, etc.

I haven't read anywhere that the forum is only for dayhomes but it does seem like the majority of people here are and therefore when they ask a question it is based on the realities of home daycare and not a centre.

[Momof4]

My rule is 'I am not a restaurant', haha. I serve one protein, one bread item, and two veggie items at lunch for example. While I agree that children do not have control over much in their lives they must learn what they can decide and what is decided for them. That's called parenting or in our case caregiving.

So I ask them to do their very best and I serve a few teaspoons of each item, then offer seconds and thirds if needed, but I hate throwing food in the garbage. They can decide to eat one of the two veggies and I'm fine with that as long as they 'do their best'.

I do offer fruit after lunch, or a semi-nutritious item like corn nacho chips just as a few examples. I tell the children that they have to eat as much of their main meal as they can if they want their fruit. If they absolutely refuse to finish their lunch then I just save the fruit for afternoon snack. If they eat a couple bites of everything on their plate I'm happy with that and I give them the fruit. In this way I am giving them a choice - choose to eat as much of your main meal as possible or go hungry. A child will learn fast that a hungry tummy doesn't feel very good. And it's only a matter of 3 hours until afternoon snack time.

I don't believe in making children clean their plates and force themselves to eat too much because I think that's setting them up for problems later in life.

[clep]

In my day home I have had numerous children with eating issues. One in particular was fed with a tube when he came. In each and every case the issues had nothing to do with food, and everything to do with behavior. The example you have stated op is the exact same thing imo. The child would not even try the food because it was a control issue.

We live in a country and society where we are not grateful for the abundance of food we have, nor do we do much to teach gratitude for that food to our youngsters.

There are three areas where children do have control. Sleeping, toileting and eating. Those are also the three areas where the biggest power struggles happen between adult and child I have found.

In my day home I do not force a child to eat anything. I place a VERY small amount of each item on their plate. An amount that any small child would be able to eat. In this way it is guaranteed that if they didn't eat it, it cannot be due to them being full. They may not have seconds of any food until their plate is cleared. It is assured they are going to at least try each thing. After that if they want seconds or more of any item they are welcome to that.

In my home with my family and day home, we do not say we don't like anything. Should the child not eat their food, they are welcome to eat that later on. I will not throw out the food, nor will they. My garbage is not for food in my home, because throwing food away does not show value to the food we have or gratitude for it.

Also, the children are educated here as to what the purpose of food is and how we fuel our bodies to do the fun activities we do. Should a child not eat their food, they will be laying down in our main room while the others play. They can choose to get their fuel from rest or food. Edited to say: That also if they are not capable of eating the very small amount of food they have been given the chances of them being sick is likely, so laying down with some water close by is a good idea as well.

The ones that use food as a control method have a very hard time here the first week. They quickly see all the other children doing so well, getting seconds and thirds of what they want and playing happily. They more often than not, go and quickly eat up their food and play with the children.

Food does not stay an issue here for long, even though it remains that way at home often.

[Mamma_Mia]

I agree with your rule and follow the same thing. I do agree though that since it's temporary care I wouldn't waste my nerves on this....but I understand how it wears you down! good luck!

[Momof4]

Oh by the way, I also have a little boy in my daycare who won't eat food that touches or is combined. I have to keep meat, breads, veggies all separated on his plate. Shepherd's pie or a lovely pasta dish - he calls it disgusting! He's here until Sept. and after 3 years of this I'll finally be able to serve more creative dishes, yay, hooray! We meet the funniest little weirdos in our profession, don't we? Good thing they are so darned cute!

[playfelt]

That is one of the reasons I dont' use a section dish even for infants - the puree sort of gradually mixes from one area to another so the last mouthfuls of each are a new taste experience. I do use large plates for the kids and try to put the food on with space for those that have issues with this but if it touches and they don't eat it well that is their choice. There is no tolerance for not eating the ones that aren't touching such as he can eat the mashed potatoes up to the meat part or eat the meat part from the other side up to the potato part and then I would likely have served more veggies on the side which would be separated as much as possible. He can have the dislike of combo if he wants but he has to learn to live within your definition of combo - eat as much of the food as you can till you reach the combo section and then stop if you must but that is it.