PDA

View Full Version : How much would you add if a new family reuqire you to...



Cocoon
02-10-2012, 11:08 AM
...work 1 more hour then your usual operating hours.

Morning ladies :)

I have an interview this afternoon with a family who has an 18 months old. I don't normally offer more then 9 hours a day in fact, none of my families needed more then 8-9 hours max. This family needs 10 hours care and It is full time. I was wondering how much would you add to your normal fees? I have to say that I'm a bit pricey for my area already and if I take one more child then I need to buy another stroller to accomodate the new child.


Thanks in advance for your help.
Cocoon

Spixie33
02-10-2012, 11:27 AM
Hi Cocoon.....your schedule sounds heavenly :) I do a 10 hr day 7:15-5:15. I have had parents come and interview and ask for 7:00-6:00 which would be 11 hours. I told them it would be an extra $3 per day since that is roughly the hourly salary I get anyways.
They didn't sign with me. A lot of people in my area offer 11-12 hour days 6-6 and charge $30 so I was already taking a long shot by even offering.
I guess you have to decide whether you want to do the extra hour, and what your competition is. Good luck:)

michellesmunchkins
02-10-2012, 11:38 AM
My rates are the same regardless of the hours they need. I am open 6am-6pm and charge $35/day. I have a family who commutes so their child is here pretty much open to close and they pay the same fee as my family who only needs 7 hours care...but...I find that the families who are off work at 3pm tend to 'leave' their child here until 5:30 because technically I'm 'open' until 6. I had a pretty rough group of families recently who totally took advantage of my hours and the fact that I'm just too nice lol. For any new families who come into care, anything after 5pm is an extra fee and anything before 7am is extra as well. Not only does it make for long days, but those children require more meals/snack. I find half the time I'm feeding them dinner because I want to have dinner with my family by 5:30ish and there are usually still dc kids here :(

Cocoon
02-10-2012, 11:41 AM
There are quite a few day homes in my area and I don't know how much they are charging but some parents have told me how much other day homes charging when I was having phone interview with them. And I seemed to charge a bit more. I checked on this web site to see how much everyone is charging and found that some of the day homes are charging just a couple of $ less then me but they do have at least 5 kids which I don't have. I don't want to look after more then 3 kids max. And this does appeal to parents.

I have a family who drives 15-20 mins to get to my day home and according to her I was the best so she didn't mind driving. And there are lots of day homes in her neigbourhood(she met 12 day homes before she found me). So I'm hoping the right family will come along and thank god I'm not in a desperate situation.

Spixie33, like you I was thinking of adding $2-3 more on top of my fee. Will see what the family thinks :)

Cocoon
02-10-2012, 11:42 AM
Michelle, where are you based if you don't mind me asking?

Momof4
02-10-2012, 11:46 AM
I would charge an extra $10 on top of my normal fee for a 10 hour day. My normal fee covers a 9 hour day with my business hours of 7:30am-5pm. A before hours/after hours fee of $5 per half hour applies and if they exceed the 9 hour day another $5/half hour applies.

Play and Learn
02-10-2012, 11:50 AM
I would charge at least $10. They want more time? I would want more money!

Cocoon
02-10-2012, 12:16 PM
Normally, I would charge $10 for an extra hour. But I'm already expensive for my area and there are competitions. My daily fee is $50 and thinking of charging around $52-53 a day.

Cadillac
02-10-2012, 01:03 PM
Off topic: For those of you who charge $35 or less for 10-12 hour days: where are you located? Is it less expensive areas to live? You deserve so much more for what you do.

michellesmunchkins
02-10-2012, 01:08 PM
Cocoon, I'm in Oshawa Ontario. There are literally hundreds of other home daycare providers in the nearby area...well I should rephrase that...there are hundreds of stay at home Mom's who only charge $20/day to take in kids. I charge $35 because I used to work as a special education teacher and feel I should make more than someone without any qualifications or the formal education I spent 5 years in college getting. Its very frustrating to have people call and say oh we found someone cheaper...when really they just found someone who wants to stay home with their kids. I'm not knocking stay at home Mom's at all, just frustrating that parents can't see the difference between a 'real' home daycare program and someone just wanting to be home 'babysitting'. I worked hard on my programming but don't feel compensated enough financially for the hours that I work but can't increase my feels because everyone will just to with Jane Doe down the street for $20 :(

michellesmunchkins
02-10-2012, 01:09 PM
*fees, sorry should spell check before posting :)

Marie
02-10-2012, 01:10 PM
Off topic: For those of you who charge $35 or less for 10-12 hour days: where are you located? Is it less expensive areas to live? You deserve so much more for what you do.

I charge $25 a day but my hours are 7:30am - 4:30pm. It has happened that I've kept a child past 4:30 but only till 4:45 or so. I'm in MB in a tiny town and here that is around what people charge. It doesn't seem like a lot considering one set of parents I have pays more to have their dog babysat, but it does add up at the end of the month and does help financially.

Spixie33
02-10-2012, 01:18 PM
Cocoon, I'm in Oshawa Ontario. There are literally hundreds of other home daycare providers in the nearby area...well I should rephrase that...there are hundreds of stay at home Mom's who only charge $20/day to take in kids. I charge $35 because I used to work as a special education teacher and feel I should make more than someone without any qualifications or the formal education I spent 5 years in college getting. Its very frustrating to have people call and say oh we found someone cheaper...when really they just found someone who wants to stay home with their kids. I'm not knocking stay at home Mom's at all, just frustrating that parents can't see the difference between a 'real' home daycare program and someone just wanting to be home 'babysitting'. I worked hard on my programming but don't feel compensated enough financially for the hours that I work but can't increase my feels because everyone will just to with Jane Doe down the street for $20 :(

I think outside of Toronto and Ottawa you see prices around $25-$35 as standard and depending on what they offer for your child. Oshawa is a suburb of Toronto - a far one and prices in the suburbs are lower :(
People actually in Toronto or Ottawa seem to make quite a bit more even though we all work just as hard. I am also north of the GTA and when I first started here people were charging between $21-$33. I have just seen more ads raise their price to $35 (halleluliah) these past few months where $35 is now starting to be more standard. I am not sure how even a SAHM makes much on $20 a day. Once you factor in food, your time/hours, and craft supplies and daycare equipment etc there isn't much left to take to the bank at that rate.

playfelt
02-10-2012, 01:36 PM
Here in Orleans (Ottawa east) rates have been $35 for about 5 years and now many have raised them to closer to $40 with sort of everything in between. A few still advertise for under $35 but what I get from parents is that while they like the price they just don't take anyone charging really low seriously which is good for the rest of us. I have kids at $35, $37 and $38 since I have a policy of your rates don't go up as long as you stay in care. I will be replacing my two oldest that leave for school with new ones at $40.

lunademiel
02-10-2012, 01:49 PM
I'm in Winnipeg and I charge $28 per day for one LO who comes from 6:15am to 4:00 and another LO from 7:30-5:00 so really I'm working an 11 hour day... One is here for 9.75 hours and the other one is for 9 1/2.

lunademiel
02-10-2012, 01:57 PM
Cocoon, I'm in Oshawa Ontario. There are literally hundreds of other home daycare providers in the nearby area...well I should rephrase that...there are hundreds of stay at home Mom's who only charge $20/day to take in kids. I charge $35 because I used to work as a special education teacher and feel I should make more than someone without any qualifications or the formal education I spent 5 years in college getting. Its very frustrating to have people call and say oh we found someone cheaper...when really they just found someone who wants to stay home with their kids. I'm not knocking stay at home Mom's at all, just frustrating that parents can't see the difference between a 'real' home daycare program and someone just wanting to be home 'babysitting'. I worked hard on my programming but don't feel compensated enough financially for the hours that I work but can't increase my feels because everyone will just to with Jane Doe down the street for $20 :(

I can completely understand how you feel but I must say as a SAHM I need to defend us just a little bit. I am trying very very hard to make sure these kids get the as much education as I can give them. I spend hours on the computer on my evenings to learn as much as I can without the same sort of resources I would love to get from college training (can't afford it). I want these kids to have everything I want my own kids to have in respect to learning, healthy food, exercise, and most importantly LOVE! Don't get me wrong, I absolutely think someone with the credentials SHOULD get paid more and the right parents will pay you more, AND most importantly appreciate you more. Those are the type of parents you want to have!:D

KingstonMom
02-10-2012, 01:57 PM
I am open 7:30 -5pm. If asked to stay open till say, 6pm, I would charge an extra $8 on top of daily rate. My evening time is very precious to me. 99% chance I would just tell then 'no way' and they can find someone else. But I for some reason, REALLY wanted the family, then I MAY consider taking them till 6pm.
All my kids pay $32 a day regardless of when the come/leave.
I am obviously in Kingston, Ontario.
The norm for my are is $30-$35. There are some SAHMs who will take in a few kids for as low as $20. All the power to them. As Judy put it: "im in it for the money!"

KingstonMom
02-10-2012, 02:02 PM
I can completely understand how you feel but I must say as a SAHM I need to defend us just a little bit. I am trying very very hard to make sure these kids get the as much education as I can give them. I spend hours on the computer on my evenings to learn as much as I can without the same sort of resources I would love to get from college training (can't afford it). I want these kids to have everything I want my own kids to have in respect to learning, healthy food, exercise, and most importantly LOVE! Don't get me wrong, I absolutely think someone with the credentials SHOULD get paid more and the right parents will pay you more, AND most importantly appreciate you more. Those are the type of parents you want to have!:D

I have no college education, and the only work experience I have is in teh banking industry for 6 years I have LOs of my own. As long as you think you are worth the extra money to spend your time with others kids, then ask for it! I started out alot cheaper just to get the experience and then after 8 months, I bumped my daily rate up $5/day and all my parents signed happily!

I also agree, that maybe ECE providers have formal training, all of us know how to LOVE and CARE for a child. :)

playfelt
02-10-2012, 02:07 PM
I have no college education, and the only work experience I have is in
I also agree, that maybe ECE providers have formal training, all of us know how to LOVE and CARE for a child. :)

And those that have ECE have theoretical experience as well as some observation in daycare centres but they still have to spend the hours in the evening and weekends finding the same activities and resources to make learning materials - those aren't given out in class.

michellesmunchkins
02-10-2012, 02:08 PM
I don't agree that everyone knows how to love and care for a child...if that were true there would no child abuse in this world. Everyone knows how to make a child. Most people know how to love their children, but not everyone knows how to properly care for or raise a child. I'm not saying that a college education would change that, but I have met many SAHM's at the park while out with the kids that I cringe thinking they are alone with their child. They sit on their cell phones while their children hang precariously from the slide after falling off...scares me. Not saying all SAHM's are the same...more saying that those who advertise for $20 a day are probably not providing a full educational daycare program but more just babysitting. Didn't mean to offend any SAHM's!!!

playfelt
02-10-2012, 02:15 PM
I think the reference to everyone was to daycare providers and comparing them with those that have ECE training and those that don't. I don't think she was referring to the world of mothers at large.

michellesmunchkins
02-10-2012, 02:18 PM
Where I live a daycare provider was charged with child abuse just a couple months ago...lived right around the corner from me, its a scary world we live in now :(

Cocoon
02-10-2012, 02:49 PM
That is why I charge more then other providers. I have qualifications and the experience. My fees does put those parents' who are after a cheap care behind my doors. I tell parents' at the interview that I'm not a babysitter or a stay at home mom(no disrespect). Therefore, this will affect on my fees. I now have 3 families and all of them are very happy with my care.

People think that looking after children is an easy job, just sit with them and let them play by themselves. Well, no it is not! No wonder why many people doesn't recognise this job as a profession.

Cocoon

Emily3
02-10-2012, 03:27 PM
If I'm not mistaken, most of us on this forum, regardless of our backgrounds, are stay at home moms!!!!! Although I have several degrees in the child care field I have never been handed the ability love a child given automatically with my degree at graduation. You have it or you don't, it does not come from a course. Even though I can not bear to put my daughter in child care, many people do not have this luxury, if I had to, a degree on the wall would not be the first thing I looked for in a provider. I do not mean this to be insulting in any way....why would I insult myself, ha ha!

michellesmunchkins
02-10-2012, 03:37 PM
I think people are taking my post the wrong way. I didn't mean to insult ALL stay at home moms as like Emily says we are all stay at home mom's in a sense. What I was meaning, but perhaps didn't phrase properly was that just having a child doesn't make someone a good daycare provider. Just as taking a photo does not make someone a photographer...does that make more sense? Again, I'm sorry if people thought I was 'bashing' stay at home Mom's...that was not my intent at all!

Momof4
02-10-2012, 04:07 PM
I don't think you should ever call yourself a stay-at-home-Mom if you are running a daycare. You are a working woman who owns a small business and don't you ever forget it!

In my opinion the line is drawn between a 'babysitter' and a daycare or dayhome provider who is running a program and is dedicated to her business, her clients and the children. The prices we charge are due to our surroundings or the city we live and none of us is paid what we are worth because of society's notions about us. That's why we have to demand respect from others and let them know that we are not just 'babysitters who want to make some cash'.

michellesmunchkins
02-10-2012, 04:11 PM
Momof4 you phrased it soooo much better then I did :)

Emily3
02-10-2012, 06:22 PM
Sorry, my point was just that to me, a mother choosing to stay home to raise her children does not mean laying on the sofa eating bon bons while the kids watch tv. I choose to share my home with other people's children because I believe it is best for my children to have both worlds, me home with them and other children to interact and grow with. I am darn good at what I do and have never met anyone who thought this was an easy way to make extra money so I don't have to bother going back to work.

Cocoon
02-10-2012, 07:56 PM
OK. the meeting is over. They are very nice family and the boy is very! active. :unsure::D He is 18 months old and does not like to eat solid food. He likes his pure food and English will be his second language. They're hoping he will get my accent:) I told them I hope not :laugh:

I'm sure you will soon read my "I'm going to kill myself" posts.:mellow:

Cocoon

Momof4
02-10-2012, 08:02 PM
18 months and not on solid food? Oh yes, you are in trouble if you take this on! Hopefully you can get the little guy to eat and teach the parents a thing or two.

Cocoon
02-10-2012, 08:18 PM
They said that they will do whatever I ask them to do. His sleep routine is a bit different. He wakes up at 8am and goes to sleep around 12:30pm for 2 hours and again sleeps at 5pm for an hour or so and goes to sleep again at 10pm. That is changing too. :) Oh boy he will not like it. And I don't know why I want to take this challenge? I'm financially not desperate... Please talk some sense to me.

lunademiel
02-10-2012, 08:36 PM
I think people are taking my post the wrong way. I didn't mean to insult ALL stay at home moms as like Emily says we are all stay at home mom's in a sense. What I was meaning, but perhaps didn't phrase properly was that just having a child doesn't make someone a good daycare provider. Just as taking a photo does not make someone a photographer...does that make more sense? Again, I'm sorry if people thought I was 'bashing' stay at home Mom's...that was not my intent at all!

Sorry, I didn't mean to start such a conversation! I didn't feeling that you were bashing anyone. I just wanted to say that I work hard too even if I don't have the same qualifications. And you are right that having a child DOES NOT make you a good daycare provider. This job is tough, and as most said, unappreciated. It is definitely not for everyone. People really don't believe it's a profession. Even the government today was calling me a "babysitter". Even without my ECE I feel like much more then that... I would never charge more then I'm worth but I think that charging only $20 a day though, makes it hard for everyone. I don't even know why moms would bother if that's all they are going to charge. I'm trying to go with the average in my area for all providers, ECE's, SAHMS, licensed, unlicensed, etc.

Again, I was just stating my position, didn't mean to start a fuss! I think you are all so great and helpful!

mom-in-alberta
02-11-2012, 03:09 AM
My hours are 7:30 to 5:30, and I don't actually have any flexibility. I have family commitments that are before and after, and I am not willing or able to change that. I think a 10 hour window is plenty, especially considering that in all likelihood, the longest commute should (outside of really bad traffic or weather) take 30 to 45 min max (in our area).
If I entertained the thought of extending my hours, I would probably charge an extra $10 a day.
And I know that nobody means to irk anyone else; we are all on the same "team" right?? LoL

Cocoon
02-19-2012, 11:08 PM
Here is an update.

The family said that my hours are OK. so no need for an extra hour. They want to send their kid to my day home but my husband thinks it will be a lot of work and I don't need the stress especially, soon after I had dealt with my current 13 month old charge.

The only thing I'm worried is that he throws up. Hes parents told that this happened couple of times when they give him solid food and he doesn't want to eat as he is used his food to be mash. It does not happens all the time and he does not like chewing his food and he is 18 months old.

I don't know what to do :unsure: I like the family though.

Cocoon

Momof4
02-19-2012, 11:25 PM
Cocoon, here is what my contract states and the routine I follow. If a child throws up without reason or with reason I use my judgement, but usually I call the parent and insist they are picked up and removed from daycare for 24 hours as per my contract rules.

If this happens daily then there is a serious issue that the parents need to fix and it is the parent's responsibility not mine. Always remember that we are the secondary caregivers and don't stress.

playfelt
02-19-2012, 11:41 PM
I have had several kids in care with actual reflux as toddlers. If certain textures or tastes cause gagging then just treat it the same as a child that has an allergy and let the child avoid those foods for the next few months and then gradually add them back in. He may just be slow in developing swallowing muscles and especially if the parents were late in starting him on solids. I'm not sure this would be a deal breaker for me if it only happens at the table with meals and I can work around the foods served. If however the throwing up happens later after eating I don't need those kinds of messes. My one little guy was even on prescription meds for his issues. The doctor described it as his throat was so raw from the acid reflux that everything he ate save the puree was like us eating a full mouthfull of potato chips and not chewing them enough before swallowing which if you have ever done that you know how it hurts on the way down. Now imagine every spoonful of pasta or peas felt that way. I wouldnt' want to eat either. Even by age 3 he was still limited in what he would eat but it was getting better and the meds helped to heal his throat.

What is the demand for care in your area like in terms of will you have other clients coming for interviews. How long can you hold out financially if you don't take him.

One positive is that the parents have been honest with you and that counts for a lot. There is also the option of a trial period and that way you get to assess for yourself how much work it is really going to be or if the child adapts quicker to the program than anyone expected.

Cocoon
02-19-2012, 11:43 PM
Momof4, thank you for your input. They said he doesn't always throw up but it happened few times and if they don't mash his food they are afraid that he won't eat anything. He chews on meat but does not swallow.

I feel if I take on this child It will be difficult one. On the other hand, I'm thinking that he will see other kids are feeding themselves with finger food and he will copy them.

Hubby said the same thing and I should not take on this child. But I feel I'm not giving him a fair chance.


Cocoon

Momof4
02-20-2012, 12:05 AM
If you are sure there is no bacteria/virus/flu and it's a personality problem only that you can correct then I wish you luck Cocoon. I had a baby like that and it took seven whole months to get her to normal out and now she's almost 4 years old and I just love her. Her Mom wants her to stay with me for 2 more years for JK & SK every other day and I'm going to have a terrible decision to make come this Sept. because I have long waiting list of people wanting full-time care. But after all we've been through over the past 3 years this little girl told me a few weeks ago that she loves me more than anyone, even Mom & Dad, eeeeeeks! That is one of the perks of our job right? What to do?

Cocoon
02-20-2012, 12:06 AM
Thank you playfelt. They seemed honest and open people which I like about them and very down to earth.

I suggested them to see a doctor if he is throwing up(he does it after food) as it may be reflux issue but his father said that he doesn't think anything wrong with him.
Hes routine is a bit different then I have set up here but they are willing to change that to suit my day home. He sleeps at 5pm for an hour and then go to his night sleep around or after 10pm.

I get quite a bit of interest and I have 2 meetings set up next week for April and May start. Financially, I'm not desperate but it would be good If I could get one more child in to my care soon.

Decisions decisions decisions...

Cocoon
02-20-2012, 12:18 AM
I hate leaving the kids. :( I left my previous job in June after over 3 years of working there (I was a nanny) and I still miss him very much. I see him in my dreams sometimes. And his mother emailed me saying that he is asking about me. Where I'm and Why did I go? It breaks my heart.

Momof4
02-20-2012, 12:26 AM
Hugs! And good luck!

Mamma_Mia
02-20-2012, 12:41 AM
For what it's worth.............I 'kinda' know what Michelle ws talking about. I have no formal training or education re: childcare. Before my husband and I decided this would be a new adventure for us (me) I was looking for daycare for my own little one and was SCARED at what was out there. I live east of Toronto in the Durham region and the average in both MY old and current area are $35-$40 a day. Those who charge $25-30 are before & after school care according to the daycarebear site.

When we were interviewing I couldn't believe one woman who thought I'd pay $20 a day when she had no dck's, only ONE basket of toys, no dedicated children's area and just an icky vibe. She said she is charging a 'lower fee' but should be more since she has her ECE. umm...I don't flippen think so, not even for FREE.

I did then meet with another woman who was a SAHM with no formal education re: childcare and the entire basement was the daycare, seperate sleep area for each kiddie, eating area w/ seats for each child, I saw schedules, routine, crafts etc. She loved those kids and to this day we meet up each week for a playgroup! She had 4 dck and charged $35

Training or Education doesn't give anyone the automatic right to earn more than the other. It's about YOU.....You can have all the degrees in the world and still SUCK! haha

JUST BE AWESOME!

Inspired by Reggio
02-20-2012, 08:15 AM
I think that fees are based on what the market can 'bare' in your location ... and part of determining that is the service or program you offer, your experience and what the market is willing to pay for that ... so what I am able to charge might not be the same as what others are able to charge - it is a variable to so many things ... kinda like two hairdressors working in the SAME salon can charge different amounts for their service depending on their skill and peoples willingness to pay them that ;)

The 'going' rate in my neighborhood is $20 - 25 although the 'average' in the entire CITY is $35 a day - my neighborhood has a lot of people working 'under the table' for cash and offering cheap care as an incentive to not getting receipts - aka illegal childcare.

The reality is that I would rather only have three children at $35 a day and ean $105 and be able to claim all my expenses and so forth and pay into CPP than to have 5 children at $20 and be 'full' but only earning $100 but not 'claim' anything ... the additional stress and expense of children and the lack of 'planning for retirement' just does not make sense to me.

So there were five providers on my street when I started out and ALL had more home childcare experience than I did being 'new' however I charged MORE than they did anyway - cause I felt I was WORTH it ... and while on paper I do have an Early Childhood Education degree, am certified with my professional association and registered with the College of ECE here in Ontario and while I was new to 'home childcare' I had 17 years of experience working with children .... however IMO I was able to charge $10 a day more than all of them - not because of my 'experience or education on paper' but because my PROGRAM reflected that experience and education and INVESTMENT in my business ... prospective clients see that - experience as others said is only as good as it is APPLIED to your actual work ... I have peers who have attended way more schooling than me but who should NOT be working on the front line cause they cannot take the theory and put it into action and well that is useless also worked with others who have never opened a child development book but are AMAZING cause it comes naturally to them ;)

To answer the initial question - my program hours are 7:30 - 4:30 and if you want extended hour care more than that you PAY more for overtime you are asking me to work and I am only willing to start as early as 7 and work as late as 5 because a ten hour day IMO is long enough to remain healthy and passionate about your 'work' I need time to rest, recoupe and be with my family uninterrupted from 'work' ... I too charge minimum wage per hour for overtime because the client is not sharing that 'work' with any other families that normal fees are set by... and well it is a deterrent to those 'long days' for the child being in care because amazingly when it hits the pocketbook hard enough families manage to find a way to keep their child within care no more than 9 hours.

I prefer to see the world as abundant and do not view other providers as competition and have sent clients I cannot help or who are not a match to what I am offering or asking to peers in my neighborhood who offer services similar to what they might be looking for.... statistically speaking in Canada only 20% of children are in 'licensed spaces' the rest are in informal private childcare arrangements ... that is A LOT if clients seeking care for children ;)

Cocoon
02-20-2012, 11:48 AM
Mamma_Mia, when I first started I had nothing! Seriously. I did not have any toys or books and the whole room was empty. Whoever came to meet me signed up withing couple of days. I was and still am new to the country, so I had no idea where the play grounds are, library etc. They didn't even call my references which I find it wierd. Only one of my client asked but they didn't call either.
Anyway, My first dck started withing a week or so. I've got the deposit and 2 weeks in advance and used that money to buy toys, books etc. And I still don't have tons of toys maybe just a box of full stuff but I do buy toys every months as the kids are growing and their interests are changing. By the way, I'm the expensive one in my area.

Now, what I'm trying to say is because she didn't have tons of toys or had no dck that doesn't make her bad caregiver or un capable or anything like that. Like her, I had only my qualifications to show the parents' that's all. I'm just talking from my experience and me not having toys or anything really did not bothered my clients.

Inspired by Reggio, I totally agree with you. :)

I think I will take on this child to see if I can work on him. You never know. He might not act the way he is acting to his parents' as we all know kids are generally good with their care providers :)

Cocoon