Lord give me the strength to terminate

[Spixie33]

I am so bad at confrontation and giving bad news. Seriously - the worst. I will avoid it at all costs.

I have fantastic daycare families but I am at the end of my rope with one of the little ones.

The fact that the parents are great and I have such a close knit group of parents where they all know the kids' names, schedules, and send little treats for the other kids makes it even harder to terminate someone. I know the parents will notice that "Bobby" is missing and ask me what happened and I will have to tell them at some point.

"Bobby" has been with me over a year and is now 3 years old. The problem with "Bobby" is that he is soooooooooooooooooo energetic and needs so much attention and constant supervision that it drains me out and makes me stressed with the other kids.

"Bobby" is actually a sweet kid and very happy,go lucky but has next to none listening skills and is often disruptive to the whole group because I have to correct so much of what he does. If I get angry at him or cross then he is whiney or cries and is inconsolable because he cannot take criticism or someone showing negative emotion towards him.

He is an only child and has obviously been spoiled by his very nice parents. At this point of age and after being in my home for over a year - he should know the rules and expectations but he still consistently acts like he is kind of the castle i.e jumping on the couch, driving monster trucks and other cars along the painted walls, banging toys to the point where they break no matter how many times i show him we can crash cars gently or with less extreme force, or crashing dump trucks into the wall and baseboards thereby causing scratches/dents.

I desperately want to tell his parents that I just don't see this is working and that I am not the right provider for him...but I am so scared because they are so nice and I know they will be shocked. They know their child is not perfect but I think it will still be a surprise to them. The other issue that I can't even chicken out and give them a letter because we have such a good working relationship and talk often at pick up etc so giving a letter would be too cold.

I just need the strength to do it. It will be a little tight without the income but i can just imagine that my days would be so much calmer. I wish I had a twin who could do the conversation for me while I hide around a corner somewhere.

I wish I had the strength to nip this in the bud and just do it....and I wish I knew how to go about how to explain his sudden absence if I do get the nerve to do it

[playfelt]

If would start with the list of things he is no longer allowed to do and then start time outs or whatever for when he does them. Then share the list with the parents as an example of issues you are having and that for the child's sake start enforcing these expectations at home so it becomes automatic and therefore he won't forget as often. That will allow you to bring up the what he should be doing part. Then follow through and stop any play that is destructive. Parents often just don't realize how bad it is getting because they are doing the bulk of their playing at daycare and not at home. Then if nothing improves consider the replacement while you look in the meantime. Also consider setting something like June and end of school term as time for him to move to a group for older kids. I find by the time the boys are three I have had enough of them and what you describe is unfortunately normal behaviour for some of them. BUT that does not mean I have to let them use my toys in that way. I have one that often has to stop and take a break before he can play again - same issues not every toy is part of a crash it up derby.

[Spixie33]

Thanks Playfelt. I have a son too and my son was not perfect and was very high energy and had to be let loose outside every day in order for me to maintain the house and my sanity but this child is over the top. I thought my son had prepared me for the energy of boys but my son looks like a cake walk now. lol

At this age and after so long he still cannot dress himself to go outside or manage to take his shoes off after we come inside, he is so disruptive that the other toddlers and up now say that "Bobby is being bad" and the other kids even enforce the rules and remind him that we can't do whatever he is doing wrong.

I have tried time outs - it leads to that inconsolable crying where he cries as if the world is ending and he can't breathe from the heartache of it all even though my time outs are only based on minutes of their age.
I will say to him "Can you please not touch the stereo?" sure enough I hear him touch the stereo 30 seconds after. I say "We can only turn on the water and wash our hands when Spixie33 is here with you. Please wait and I will come and help you." Then I hear him turning on the water FULL blast attempting to wash his own hands and splashing water all over the bathroom.
Ahhhh
:ohmy:
It is like whatever i say he does 20 seconds later and if I ask him and bend down to eye level and say "what did I ask you about the water?" I get :huh: blank stares back.
I have two other kids his age and they are so different and able to follow instructions and be silly but also mindful of the behaviour.
I have tried telling him what I don't want him to do or do want him to do....asking him....getting him to repeat it to me....and nada.

In the last couple of months he has destroyed 2 toys and 1 decoration in the house.

But then there are moments like now...where he is sleeping and quiet and I second guess myself and think how I could let him go. lol I just wonder if he needs someone more 1 on 1 or else in a larger group but I can;t watch a 3 year old every single second of the day when there are also other kids and younger kids to watch . I can't take one child to the potty without having to wonder what he is doing while my eyes are turned.

and if I get stern with him then next morning he comes to the house crying saying he wants to go home and clinging to his parent for dear life. BUt I can't realistically be sweet as sugar and tell him how great he is all day if he misbehaves. I have to correct the behaviour and tell him it is not allowed but then he takes it to heart.

[gcj]

It's hard if they will be totally shocked. It would be easier if they already knew what a hard time you're having. If you've been informing them of the "challenges", then you've done your part and have to do what you have to do for the rest of the group and above all for YOURSELF!
I had to terminate recently (well, contract was up, just didn't renew) but I had ZERO connection with the parents and I did it rather impromptu. I'd been tempting/ thinking about it for a while and when the dad showed up that night I just blurted it out. And life has been great ever since!

[michellesmunchkins]

I recently terminated a set of 2.5 year old twins and believe me I feel for everything you are saying in how drained you are. Its exhausting for sure. If its anything like my situation (and it sounds very much like what i went through with the behaviours and destruction) your daycare will totally change once they are gone. Mine is like a whole new group of kids and I don't crawl into bed at 6:30pm three days a week now that they are gone :) It was my first termination and was sooo hard, but sooo worth it in the end. You need to do it for yourself and the other children who are probably being affected by his behaviours too...and before the rest of your group starts following suit with him! Good luck!

[Spixie33]

I say the parents will be shocked because we do have a good relationship. The mom has said that she herself has a trying time taking him to anywhere or playgroups and that she is often embarrassed because "Bobby" is the only one who is acting up or running all over other people's house and not listening. I don't think they will be shocked in terms of finding out that I have a hard time with him or that he is not behaving but I think that they believe I am okay with it and will persevere. I do hate giving up and letting them down.

I have made comments that 'it was a rough day" etc to them at pick up a few times and told them some things so they know he is not being the perfect angel once the door closes but I think that they trust that I will hang in there since we are all on good terms. I am just not sure I can.
Even my hubby has told me to terminate this one because he sees him a few min in the morning and at night and is like :eek: 'why do you want a child like that here?'

I will probably chicken out and drag this out another few weeks but i can't imagine living like this until he goes to JK. That is over a year away and he seems to get worse instead of better.

Sure you expect 12 month olds, 18 month olds to be tough but with age everyone gets the rules and routine and makes progress towards independence....but not this little guy

If only the parents weren't such likeable people

[gcj]

hmmmm...I understand the desire to want to drag it out longer, but you're doing just that...dragging it out. Will it improve? Doesn't sound like it. So you're just prolonging the inevitable and making yourself miserable at the same time. I've really learned in all this to think of myself. Without me none of this works, therefore I'm the most important one here. Sounds so selfish and took me a long time to get there, but it's true. The others need you!
Sorry, I don't mean to seem to pushy, I've just been there and then been on the other side of it, too and know how much better off everyone was after.
Good luck.

[gcj]

yeah, the likable parents is tough. I've never had that. Good parents have always meant good kids....and vice versa :p
I've always said that the parents matter more, but I guess your case proves me wrong. Tough.

[Skysue]

I say the parents will be shocked because we do have a good relationship. The mom has said that she herself has a trying time taking him to anywhere or playgroups and that she is often embarrassed because "Bobby" is the only one who is acting up or running all over other people's house and not listening. I don't think they will be shocked in terms of finding out that I have a hard time with him or that he is not behaving but I think that they believe I am okay with it and will persevere. I do hate giving up and letting them down.

I have made comments that 'it was a rough day" etc to them at pick up a few times and told them some things so they know he is not being the perfect angel once the door closes but I think that they trust that I will hang in there since we are all on good terms. I am just not sure I can.
Even my hubby has told me to terminate this one because he sees him a few min in the morning and at night and is like :eek: 'why do you want a child like that here?'

I will probably chicken out and drag this out another few weeks but i can't imagine living like this until he goes to JK. That is over a year away and he seems to get worse instead of better.

Sure you expect 12 month olds, 18 month olds to be tough but with age everyone gets the rules and routine and makes progress towards independence....but not this little guy

If only the parents weren't such likeable people


I had this exact same situation last year and my best advice was to send their son to Montessori school. I think the excessive energy level is due to extreme intelligence and they are simply board.

The almost 3 year old in my case is excelling in Montessori school and his behavior has tamed right down due to getting the constant stimulation he needs. The best thing you can do for that child is to get him in an environment that he will thrive in.

You owe it to yourself to be straightforward with his parents. Trust me do it now and you will feel soooo much better.

Good luck!

[jec]

Yikes ~ this will be hard but you have been thinking about for a while and you know it's the right thing to do ( for your sanity )
I think maybe if you talk to the parents like the other ladies were saying to give them more of a head's up that this might be coming ...if it will make it easier on you. I've never been in this position and easy for me to say just end it but it's causing you enough stress that your husband is now telling you to end it. You can always put it on you and not so much their little guy saying that as much as you have tried you might not be the right provider for him.
Good luck !!

[Momof4]

What to you do to discipline him? Have you tried to discipline him in the past? Since he's been at your house for over a year and is 3 years old now he knows he can get away with these things. It's never too late though.

If I were you I would sit down with the parents as a group and discuss behaviour and consequences at home and at daycare and make sure that you are all on the same page. Come up with a plan to improve this little boy's behaviour and consistency is the magic word.

Children learn from day 1 in my daycare exactly what is acceptable or not and I use a time out system. I have really well behaved children here who know exactly what I expect but I'm happy and they are happy and we always have fun together. Isn't that what you are looking for? Stressfree happy days?

[Spixie33]

What to you do to discipline him? Have you tried to discipline him in the past? Since he's been at your house for over a year and is 3 years old now he knows he can get away with these things. It's never too late though.

If I were you I would sit down with the parents as a group and discuss behaviour and consequences at home and at daycare and make sure that you are all on the same page. Come up with a plan to improve this little boy's behaviour and consistency is the magic word.

Children learn from day 1 in my daycare exactly what is acceptable or not and I use a time out system. I have really well behaved children here who know exactly what I expect but I'm happy and they are happy and we always have fun together. Isn't that what you are looking for? Stressfree happy days?

Like I mentioned.....I do timeouts. I base timeouts on the child's age. So he gets 3 minutes. During time out he cries to the point where he can barely breathe and then after when I talk to him about the time out he can barely get a word out because he is distraught over the consequence. It does not matter how many time outs he has because he goes back to not listening and I do not have only him to worry about. I have other little ones who need me too and he already monopolizes large chunks of my time.

all the other kids get the rules and follow them and they respond well to time outs. But not every kid is the same. The other kids know the rules so well that they will remind this boy of the rules when they see him breaking them.

Obviously there is discipline as well as fun in our days. I have also tried giving him extra time, lots of cuddles and on the other hand I have been firm, stern, and cross with him. Neither method seems to work. Even the parents say they have a tough time with him and that they are embarrassed at times and they are having issues when they are one on one with him....I don't have the luxury of spending my whole day 1 on 1 with him.

One of the other things that really bothers me is that when we go to early Years or outings he is so over the top excited that he climbs tables, knocks over other kids etc to the point where the ECEs in the classroom are looking stunned. They have also tried to talk to him and discipline him when he comes and even to them it is in one ear and out the other. It has gone to the point where I cannot take the group to Playgroup if he is here and it is a treat that the rest of the kids get to go when he is sick or absent.

anyways....personall y I feel like he is holding us back at times and is just a lot to manage and I do not have the ability to make up for the lack of firmness at home while he is here only a few days a week

Believe me I don't WANT to terminate and have agonized over it but there are days where I am fighting back tears by nap time (like today) because I just feel like I have no where left to turn with this child. He can be very sweet when I am one on one for a puzzle or book or game with him but overall he can be a huge disruption to things

[Crayola kiddies]

Well I guess you know the answer.... It's not healthy for you to have him around and he's a bad influence on the other kids .... Maybe he has ADHD or something similiar but term them and start enjoying your days again ..... They may be nice parents but it's their child so let them deal with it. Suggest he might do better in a center where there is more then one adult. But you just have to do it. When they pick him up next tell them you have decided that current arrangement is not working and you feel he needs more one on one care then you can provide him and tell them when the last day of care will be and have a letter ready saying the same thing. Just do it quick like a band aid !

[Other Mummy]

Ohhh boy...I feel your pain Spixie. I do. I was that person who HATES confrontation of any kind. It actually makes me feel ill. However, I quickly learned, that in this business no one is looking out for you but YOU. GREAT advice on this forum. You know what you HAVE to do. For your buisness. For the other DCKs, for your own family and most of all for YOU!! Everyone on this board is correct. You will feel TONS better when you wave to him bye bye for the last time. Promise. The next day will feel ..different. Colors brighter! LOL. Then you can focus your attention on the way you want to do things in your daycare without being held back.

Just ask yourself one question. What's more important to you? Feeling that 'icky' feeling of confrontation for a bit for the better of your daycare program and sanity in the end? or dragging it out for weeks and feeling worse by sitting on the fence?

[Inspired by Reggio]

I agree that consistency is key .... but IMO termination around behaviour should not 'catch a parent off guard' because as professionals we should have been discussing the issues with the clients all along ... they should KNOW that 'Bobby' is a bundle of energy, a challenge and not coping in care because he is disruptive and makes inappropriate choices and they should know what 'Bobby's' goals in the program are and if X does not happen than termination is possible? IME when this occurs clients either pull themselves because they do not 'value' the goals you have for 'Bobby' and do not think you are a match OR they work their ARSE off to make sure that 'Bobby' behaves in care because they want him to thrive and the behaviour dispates.

Are the parents AWARE of the rules of expectations in your program so that they can be helping to ensure that their child has the skills to thrive? In my program we have a 'code of conduct' for behaviour and what is expected of the children to respect each other, themselves and the environment and so forth - jumping on the furniture or driving your scratchy cars on painted walls is NOT respectful as it could damage them - that would be a clear violation of the code of conduct and parents would be made aware 'bobby had a hard time remembering to respect the couch today and as a result Bobby is not allowed to use the couch tomorrow to reinforce that you sit gently on the couch and respect it or it wont be there to use!

What sort of discussions have you had with them about the issues - have they been working WITH you? Cause if a child is allowed to jump on the couch at home, drive his cars on the paint and behave in a 'rambunctious' manner cause they have a 'boys will be boys' philosophy and so forth than it is very hard for some personalities to wobble back and forth between it being OK in one environment and not in another :( Sometimes we have very different values about what is acceptable behaviour in childhood and if we do not discuss this with each other conflict is sure to arise.

Ultimately you have to do what is best for your program and for your overall group ... however IMO termination should be a last resort and only if the clients are not working with you to help their child survive and it should not 'catch anyone off guard'...if they have been 'aware' of the issues and sloughing them off or not working with you than for sure I would be done at this point to - but would have no stress approaching the client cause well they would on some level be 'expecting' that shoe to fall so to speak?

I always try to approach from 'our' perspective when dealing with clients - how would WE feel if everyday at pick up a client came in and appeared happy, said thank you for the great day and left us feeling things were 'good' ... all the while something was 'bugging them' and growing resentment and making every little thing seem like a 'big thing' and rather than approach us and have an open and honest conversation that just came in out of the blue and said 'we do not feel our child is thriving in your program and therefore we are terminating our contract' .... we would be hurt and devastated and well pissed that we were not made aware that they were unhappy or given a chance to discuss and make improvements and well blindsided so to speak :(

Sending vibes that whatever route you choose it goes smoothly for everyone - after all if we are all wanting children to thrive and be strong capable citizens in our society we should 'accept' that we need to do what we need to do to help meet that goal - and sometimes kids truly need more than our environment can give them and termination is the only option that is best for all!

[Spixie33]

Reggie....and others.....

The parents do know he misbehaves here. I don't tell them we had a happy, perfect day....although some days are good and better than others.

I think you are getting confused by what I wrote. I said the parents would be shocked NOT because they think there aren't problems but because they think it is fine and I am okay putting up with it. I think the parents feel that our relationship is friendly to the point where I would never terminate them no matter what. That is what I meant by them being shocked.

I have told them on many pick ups that we have had a rough day and told them what happened or they witness him trying to drive cars along the paint in the front hallway. They have witnessed him wrecking one of our christmas decorations but they just said "oh sorry". I think...personally.. .that some parents who have a child like this think it is just normal kid behaviour. He is their first and he was a 'miracle' child for them after they tried hard to conceive so they have let him get away with things and they don't know that other kids don't behave like this.

The parents are great in terms of adults. very sociable, friendly, positive people who are always nice to the other kids and families, follow my contract etc. But they are not the most disciplined people in terms of being strict with their child or drawing a line when he misbehaves.

This is a PT child so he is not with me the majority of time which makes it even harder.

Thanks to those who gave helpful advice but really my main concern was 1-finding the nerve to tell these parents who I am on great terms with and 2-how to handle the issue with the other daycare parents when they notice that we have lost someone from our tight-knit group

I have exhausted all the communication, give daily communication sheets on our day, talk to the parents at pickup and have them tell me about issues they have with him as well so communication is not the issue. Saying that communication is lacking or a partnership with the parents is honestly not very helpful, sorry. I can't even fathom how we could communicate better because we really do talk a lot at drop off/pick up, on the sheets, via email, etc. It does not change anything.

Also...for those who said to do more punishment...I do have consequences but again it leads to a bad bunch of drops offs for all involved because every time he has a bad day full of reprimands and corrections he will not want to come the next time and cling to his parents for dear life because he is scared that he will once again get in trouble or time out etc. Having drop offs where the parents have to spend 20 minutes convincing him to stay and untangling their bodies from his clinging death grip are also not pleasant and waste my time because I have other kids to worry about and other activities to do

And it is not that I want to terminate based on the last week or the last month -- it has been many many many months where I keep telling myself it is just a stage and try different techniques but nothing seems to improve even as he gets older.

[sunnydays]

I had a child like this who I had to terminate. All the other kids follow my rules and although they act out here and there, they are basically well-behaved and happy. This one child who was not even 2 yet, was taking all of my time and energy and near the end was spending more time in time-out than not because every time I took her out she would hit, kick, pull hari, scream at the other kids. And I so feel your pain about outings...I also got to the point of avoiding outings with this child as she would cry and cling to me the entire time and draw crowds of people wondering what was wrong with the poor little thing (in other words, what was I doing to her?). I kept her 9 months because I loved her parents...but then things started to go downhill with the parents too as they grew tired of hearing about her daily behavioural issues and got frustrated. After I terminated her, my life was so peaceful and continues to be...I even have one more child than before, but my days are calm, orderly, and happy now. Do what you have to do for your own sanity...you won't regret it!

[sunnydays]

I just read your last post and wanted to add that the parents in my case were quite shocked, but once I got it over with and moved on, I felt so much better! It helped that the parents and I had a bit of a problem during the last week...that made it ever so much easier...otherwise I would have been in exactly the same position as you, trying to find some way to say it. Also, I had to deal with telling other parents. I left all the details out and just said something vague about some behavioural issues as the cause of the termination. I didn't think it would be professional or fair to go into any detail. In fact, you could just say that you didn't feel he was the best fit for the group anymore and leave it at that. I think you just need to screw up your courage (preferably on a Friday so you don`t have to see them the next day) and tell them that teh continual behviour problems are draining you and that although you think their child is a sweet child, you just don`t feel you are able to meet his needs within the group anymore. You can give them some notice to soften the blow (I did not give notice as teh relationshop with the parents had deteriorated and I didn`t want to drag it out). Be strong, get it over with and you will feel so much lighter!

[gcj]

Reggie....and others.....

The parents do know he misbehaves here. I don't tell them we had a happy, perfect day....although some days are good and better than others.

I think you are getting confused by what I wrote. I said the parents would be shocked NOT because they think there aren't problems but because they think it is fine and I am okay putting up with it. I think the parents feel that our relationship is friendly to the point where I would never terminate them no matter what. That is what I meant by them being shocked.

I have told them on many pick ups that we have had a rough day and told them what happened or they witness him trying to drive cars along the paint in the front hallway. They have witnessed him wrecking one of our christmas decorations but they just said "oh sorry". I think...personally.. .that some parents who have a child like this think it is just normal kid behaviour. He is their first and he was a 'miracle' child for them after they tried hard to conceive so they have let him get away with things and they don't know that other kids don't behave like this.

The parents are great in terms of adults. very sociable, friendly, positive people who are always nice to the other kids and families, follow my contract etc. But they are not the most disciplined people in terms of being strict with their child or drawing a line when he misbehaves.

This is a PT child so he is not with me the majority of time which makes it even harder.

Thanks to those who gave helpful advice but really my main concern was 1-finding the nerve to tell these parents who I am on great terms with and 2-how to handle the issue with the other daycare parents when they notice that we have lost someone from our tight-knit group

I have exhausted all the communication, give daily communication sheets on our day, talk to the parents at pickup and have them tell me about issues they have with him as well so communication is not the issue. Saying that communication is lacking or a partnership with the parents is honestly not very helpful, sorry. I can't even fathom how we could communicate better because we really do talk a lot at drop off/pick up, on the sheets, via email, etc. It does not change anything.

Also...for those who said to do more punishment...I do have consequences but again it leads to a bad bunch of drops offs for all involved because every time he has a bad day full of reprimands and corrections he will not want to come the next time and cling to his parents for dear life because he is scared that he will once again get in trouble or time out etc. Having drop offs where the parents have to spend 20 minutes convincing him to stay and untangling their bodies from his clinging death grip are also not pleasant and waste my time because I have other kids to worry about and other activities to do

And it is not that I want to terminate based on the last week or the last month -- it has been many many many months where I keep telling myself it is just a stage and try different techniques but nothing seems to improve even as he gets older.

So, Spixie, you know what you WANT to do and what you NEED to do. Just do it. It's like ripping off a BandAid. You're convincing everyone of why you should. So......why aren't you?
As for the other parents. You don't owe them anything more than "it wasn't working out" or "it's in the best interest of the others.." That's the least of your concerns.
So, I really hope you end this. For you, for your family, for the other dcks and even for the family of this boy!
I say DO IT!

[Spixie33]

I think I am just getting frustrated with myself and the situation. I feel like I will never do it and am just stuck:(

At times I almost over complain to the parents thinking I am giving them a hint and then think that they will terminate me or sabotage myself in some way so I can have them do the termination.

Then the mom comes today and is so nice and cheerful and I can just feel my heart sink because I know it is not happening any time soon. Sigh

[gcj]

You're choosing to be stuck and not doing anyone any favours. Honestly...it's Friday...do it! I'd be more concerned about what the parents would think of you continuing when this is how you feel. Don't think about it anymore, just do it instead. Then have a nice glass of wine and think of what it's going to be like when he's gone. you're punishing yourself and all the others.
As nice as the parents are, they would not go out of their way to do anything for you. you have to look out for you and the other kids who are being exposed to this. Feel bad for them, instead!

[gcj]

I mean feel bad for the other kids, btw.

[Crayola kiddies]

Yes gcj .... That is exactly what I said .... Just do it .... Have your letter ready and just tell the parents that you have tried to make it work but it's not and they need to find new care.... Like a band aid .... Do it fast and it's over ..... Give them what ever notice is in your contract and call it a day.
As for the other parents don't even say anything. If someone asks just say they are no longer with us. It's really no body's business.
Spixie you have already made up your mind so now you just have to act on it .... No one likes to term but for the sake of everyone especially you do it now.... today ...or the next day you have this child ..... You have to get back to enjoying what you do.

[Sandbox Sally]

Oh Spixie, I feel your pain...I had a child that was terrible too, in a different way. I was sooooo nervous to tell her awesome parents that I couldn't take it any more. I have no problem confronting parents who mistreat me, but these parents are so kind and go out of their way to let me know how appreciated I am.

I was so passive agressive about it, I ended up telling them every day in the nicest way I could that it wasn't working out for HER - how frustrated SHE got, how upset SHE was when X happened. After a few weeks of this, they told me that they were withdrawing her. They are going to try a preschool next. If you just can't bear the idea of confronting the parents, this is my suggestion. ;) Totally the chicken's way out, but it worked for me.

[KingstonMom]

Oh Spixie, I feel your pain...I had a child that was terrible too, in a different way. I was sooooo nervous to tell her awesome parents that I couldn't take it any more. I have no problem confronting parents who mistreat me, but these parents are so kind and go out of their way to let me know how appreciated I am.

I was so passive agressive about it, I ended up telling them every day in the nicest way I could that it wasn't working out for HER - how frustrated SHE got, how upset SHE was when X happened. After a few weeks of this, they told me that they were withdrawing her. They are going to try a preschool next. If you just can't bear the idea of confronting the parents, this is my suggestion. ;) Totally the chicken's way out, but it worked for me.

I agree with this. Sometimes a preschool can be a much better way for energetic kids to expell their energy, or maybe the boy just needs wayy more challanges in his day as he is bored.
You're right, the parents will not be surprised that he behaves like this at your house, and maybe that is why they are so sweet and nice to you. Because they still need you to grin and bear it with their kid.
1. How about you start off a conversation at drop off today with parents about how the day went and Bobby was a handful as usually. (Maybe rough up the hair a bit and put on some raggier clothes to make you look super worn out! lol). Ask them if they have ever considered a different daycare atmosphere for Bobby. Say that he probably needs alot more challanging activities and is probably smart as a whip but is just bored and that why he feels the need to act up. (Parents will LOVE you if you suggest they have a genius). See what they have to say. Let them speak. Maybe they will ask YOU if you think he should be somewhere else as far as daycare goes.
Say you love him to death but soemtimes wish you had 4 of you just to keep him safe/entertained. This is all true stuff, isnt it?
2. As for the other parents, you say they have seen how Bobby acts, so it should not be a surprise that you finally are done with the behaviour. Maybe if you lose Bobby on good terms, and the parents agree with you and want to take him to another type of Daycare, then all the kids can have a 'going away party' for Bobby.

If you just lead them into the idea of a change of scenery for Bobby, maybe they will discuss it iver the weekend and decide that it is, in fact, best for this little boy.

Good luck to you and keep us updated please!

also, suggest that you may be willing to give them up to 3 weeks notice if they cannot find a place for him asap. This woudl be nice of you and I hope they can see that you are trying your best, and its not easy for you regardless.

[Spixie33]

Oh

I was so passive agressive about it, I ended up telling them every day in the nicest way I could that it wasn't working out for HER - how frustrated SHE got, how upset SHE was when X happened. After a few weeks of this, they told me that they were withdrawing her. They are going to try a preschool next. If you just can't bear the idea of confronting the parents, this is my suggestion. ;) Totally the chicken's way out, but it worked for me.

Yes this is what I am hoping for. That is why when I keep telling the parents the issues and how t he boy is struggling I am hoping that they would say "Maybe we should try somewhere else". I would much rather that they do it.
Sometimes he has trouble when he arrives (like described he clings to the parents) and they will ask me "why do you think he is doing that?" I am so tempted to just say "Maybe he isn't happy here anymore. I wouldn't be at all offended if you want to look at other places or homes for him" lol

[playfelt]

That would be a good time to put in the plug for the daycare centre. If the parents say why does he act like this it would be the time to say It could be because he doesn't like having to follow my rules. This is a home, not a big spacious daycare centre. In a home I can not have him running around, throwing things, not listening.......list whatever infractions you want to here.... because I must maintain a safe environment for everyone in care.

Then add something like maybe it will soon be time for "bobby" to move to a group of same age peers - and that is what could be the problem. He is just not willing to tolerate the little ones and what goes with that. In effect he has outgrown a home environment - or more likely never grew into one because he was not taught to respect a home compared to someone else's daycare centre.

[Sandbox Sally]

I am so tempted to just say "Maybe he isn't happy here anymore. I wouldn't be at all offended if you want to look at other places or homes for him" lol

Do it. Or something like, "Maybe he isn't happy here any more. I'm really not sure I can offer him the stimulation he needs. I know this great preschool..."

[Inspired by Reggio]

I did not intend to criticize your communication - sorry if it came off that way ... however in my many years in centre are I often witnessed that providers THOUGHT they are clearly communicating with clients about behaviour but in reality they are not sending the message that they are frustrated enough with the behaviour to terminate care over it - so the parents were just dismissing it as 'communication about his day' not as the CRY FOR HELP it truly was and so when the 'termination' came they would be shocked that it was that 'big a deal' and the providers would be frustrated that 'what the hell I have been telling you for months that Bobby is full of energy and jumping on the couch how can you be shocked it has come to this' ... cause what the provider SAID and the client HEARD were two very different things!

In my program there are behaviours I consider 'normal' part of this business that are a stage of development and I do not often bug parents everyday with those minor things than there are others that while maybe 'normal part of development' are not socially acceptable will be a DEAL BREAKER if they are not addressed and rectified quickly those I will verbally share with parents at pick up ' Bobby was having a hard time remembering to use his words today and hit three of his friends out of frustration. As a consequence to help him learn he has to be gentle and friendly he spent a fair bit of time by himself until he can show me he can be trusted with the group - I cannot allow the other children to be harmed in my care. I am guessing that in the heat of the moment Bobby is lacking impulse control and anger management to make the 'better' choice. At home I need you to work on using his words to solve problems rather than his hands - puppet play is a great way to build these sort of skills by having the puppet mishave with Bobby to make him frustrated and Bobby trying 'better 'solutions to solve his problem that hitting them' the more he can practice the more naturally the better choices will come to him" ... this is the stage one of the 'verbal reminder and couching for better choices both in program and at home'. If Bobby did not improve this behaviour and it was something I was going to be willing to terminate over the next STAGE of the resolution would be to give the parents a 'written documentation' of Bobby's challenges in the program, my expectations, GOALS to work on at home and in program to master this expectation and a DEADLINE for this to occur or we would have to rethink his placement in the program. If at the end of the deadline the goals were not met there would be no SHOCK for the parents that the issue was 'that big' cause it was there in writing. And if the parents did not feel my expectation for Bobby was realistic than THEY would terminate at the onslaught of the 'written behavior management contract' and save me the trouble ;)

This is what I meant about making sure that communication and the seriousness of how we are feeling is CLEAR ... just like in employment if something was so wrong with our performance we were in risk of being 'fired' we would expect a 'verbal warning with some coaching on how to improve' but if it was still not up to par we would get a 'written warning' to let us know it was indeed 'serious enough' verses just a communication akin to training thing of 'hey just a reminder you need to wear a hair net back there' as well as there would be a list of 'behaviours' in the employee handbook that clearly indicate 'do this and you are at risk of immediate termination of employment'.

In a field where there are so many 'approaches' to child rearing and so many varied 'expectations' for behaviour in children I just feel that communication needs to be EXTRA CLEAR with clients about what we expect and what CAN happen if we want to avoid conflict.

Termination sucks for everyone involved - I do not think anyone goes into this thinking it 'could' happen but it definitely helps to have a clear understanding of how to prevent it by clear written expectations of behaviour and the 'policy' around termination and what are grounds for it in our contracts.

[gcj]

Waiting to hear it's done...I'd like to have a glass of celebratory wine on your behalf....

[Spixie33]

Oh I totally chickened out. Both parents arrived at pick up time and I thought it was maybe a sign they would tell me the news that they were taking him out of my daycare and they wanted to tag team the bad news.....but nope - just 2 happy parents wanting to chat and pick up their son.
At this rate he may be a teen before I find my nerve.

@KingstonMom --I think you are right and part of the reason they are so cheery and nice to me is because they probably are worried that I will bail on them. It is a tough age to find daycare for and also for their part time schedule which can fluctuate

[Momof4]

Ah Spixie, it sounds like you have tried everything and have let the parents know that they should be doing more to get their child under control. You have no reason to feel guilty at all because you've tried everything and agonized over this decision. I now agree with the other ladies after hearing all of this and think that you should get it over with and do it quickly.

You definitely deserve to be happy and stress free with co-operative families and children in your life daily. Most of us have had to terminate for one reason or another and it is a stomach churning event but then once it's done and you realize you are happy you just breathe a sigh of relief every morning when getting ready to start the day.

[Spixie33]

Waiting to hear it's done...I'd like to have a glass of celebratory wine on your behalf....

I'm totally going to need hubby to make me a daiquiri tonight. lol A consolation one :)

[mom-in-alberta]

I think playfelt hit it right when she suggested writing up a specific list of "we expect THIS behaviour, not THIS and give some examples of what will no longer be tolerated". Give them a chance to enforce these same rules at home. Chances are, they pretty much let him run amok at home?
If by a specific timeline, he has not shown any improvement, I would say goodbye. And make sure they know what that time period is. Then stick to it. Good luck!!!!!!!

[Inspired by Reggio]

I think playfelt hit it right when she suggested writing up a specific list of "we expect THIS behaviour, not THIS and give some examples of what will no longer be tolerated". Give them a chance to enforce these same rules at home. Chances are, they pretty much let him run amok at home?
If by a specific timeline, he has not shown any improvement, I would say goodbye. And make sure they know what that time period is. Then stick to it. Good luck!!!!!!!

I agree - seeing a goal 'in writing' lends to the significance of your feelings towards it needing to be met by others.

ETA also writing it up is cathartic for you and will help give that backbone to hand it over and get the conversation going - you can still 'talk' to them and make it personal but the written document helps to keep you on track and act as a catalysis to give you strength to speak up and address this issue.