Rates and vacation time

[shopgirl]

Its hard for me to find alot of rates and policies without calling daycare homes and I dont want to pose as a parents and waste thier time. Just setting things up and have a couple of questions

1) what area of canada are you in?
2) what is your daily rate
3) what is your stat holiday/vacation day policy?

thanks for answering, i really appreciate it!

[playfelt]

It varies a lot from area to area. Maybe if you let us know where you live there will be someone near you that will have a better idea of how rates vary in their area.

[michellesmunchkins]

I am in Ontario. My daily rate is $35/day. Its in my contract that I am supposed to be paid for all stats but my families ignore that and most of them don't pay. As for vacation time, they don't pay for any days off that I take and they are allowed to take 10 days unpaid vacation time per year. Everyone tells me that I'm too nice and give them too much time off without having to pay. When I do my contracts up again I will be making some changes and not giving so much time off without paying though as its really hard to keep making ends meet with 5 families all taking so much time off. Hope that helps :)

[Emily3]

Hi! I am in a Toronto suburb. My rates are $40 full time and $45 part time. I get paid all stat days!! I think this is a must for everyone! Other vacation time seems to vary widely between providers. I do not charge for times when I am closed, however, parents pay half fees for any vacation time that they take off.

[shopgirl]

I am in the Niagara area.
Michellesmuchkins - that does sound generous! That seems like alot of time that you dont get paid. I cant believe some of your parents dont pay the stat days when they are supposed to.

so here is kind of a spin off question - if i wanted to charge a higher rate like 40$ instead of 35$ which seems to be the norm here from the little i see. What do I have to do to make myself stand out. What are some things you offer that make a parent want to get you and pay you extra. is it hours open? the look of your house? preschool curriculum you offer?

[apples and bananas]

I'm in the Hamilton area and I charge 35 per day. I do not charge for stats. I allow parents to take one week off unpaid on top of my 2 weeks unpaid. Anything above that is full week paid to hold their spot.

I'm too nice too.

[michellesmunchkins]

I am in the Niagara area.
Michellesmuchkins - that does sound generous! That seems like alot of time that you dont get paid. I cant believe some of your parents dont pay the stat days when they are supposed to.

so here is kind of a spin off question - if i wanted to charge a higher rate like 40$ instead of 35$ which seems to be the norm here from the little i see. What do I have to do to make myself stand out. What are some things you offer that make a parent want to get you and pay you extra. is it hours open? the look of your house? preschool curriculum you offer?

It really is a lot of unpaid time and it really does affect the income. I could be more of a hard ass and make them pay by threatening to not take their child the following week, but for the most part I have great families and that seems to be my only issue with them so to me, its not worth fighting with them for. I should fight for it for sure though since we are entitled to it...I just choose to pick my battles and for now I'll let the stat holiday one go.

My rates will be increasing probably next year to maybe $37-38/day for new families. Current families will keep their regular rates. I also used to offer a family discount of $50/day for the 2 children and that REALLY affected the income so I'm not going to be doing that anymore.

I'd be happy to send you my website if you want to see what I've done. My hours are 6-6 which is not common in my area so that is for sure a huge reason why most families contact me. It makes for very long days though just something to think about.

I do offer a preschool program and I also offer french and sign language in my program. It by no means sells my daycare over someone else's but just gives a little something more. In my area pretty much every second house is a home daycare so we have to stand out somehow. I think my families like that I used to teach for the school board and that I have TONS of experience with special needs children (although I don't have any special needs children in care at the moment, I am qualified to take them).

My house is just your typical backsplit in a nice area of town. I have 2 schools and a park right down the street. I find the fact that I have an inground pool deters some families even though the children are NEVER allowed in my backyard because of the pool. My daycare is the main floor of my house and I use my 3 bedrooms for nap time.

[playfelt]

One of the best places to do "research" is right here on daycarebear. Go to the home page and type your postal code into the search box. It will bring up a list of caregivers startaing with the closest to you. Then look closely at the ads maybe even making a chart of information - look at hours they are open, what they are charging, what they are offering in terms of read their description. If they have pictures look closely at them and note any toys you have the same, note things that appear in them all - everyone has the equivalent of the fisherprice farm or a climber in the yard. Look at decor and setup - what stands out to you - do you like the livingroom effect with toys more or less hidden in cupboards or do you like the school room effect where there are alphabet cards and artwork splashed all over the walls and toys everywhere. What do YOU think is the best environment for you to be in all day since if you aren't happy no one will be.

As far as charging more, I probably would suggest the opposite approach if you are just starting out. Some of those charging higher rates can do so based on years of experience and that their spaces fill by word of mouth so they aren't truly competing on the open market so to speak.

Choose a rate that is in line with your "competition" and design a program that for now is inline as well so parents have some frame of reference to compare with. Then over time as children leave and new children start you can change your rates for new families to better reflect the amount you want to earn and will be able to justify it with the experience you are gaining as well as the program which you will have established.

[Bookworm]

Hi shopgirl,

I too am in the Niagara Region. I just upped my rate to $35/day for full time and $40/part time. I charge for all stat holidays and I don't make parents pay for my holidays, but they pay full fees if they want vacation time.
If you want to charge $40, I think you are going to have to really push your credentials (RECE) or your program if you plan on having one. It also depends on which area of the Niagara Region you are in as the rates vary from $20-$35 for full time in this area. There are a lot of daycares in this region, so it may take a while to get full (I'm new and still have spots to fill). Good luck and I hope you find yourself full soon!

[apples and bananas]

I used to live in the niagara region and I only ever paid $30 per day for daycare for my kids. I still keep in contact with my old provider and she has raised her rates to 32.50. I never paid for stats or vacation time, and she had been doing it for over 15 years. It depends what others are doing around you.

[Bookworm]

I recently did what Playfelt suggested about searching on this site for rates of daycares nearby and found that they were all charging $35, so all my new clients will be charged that. Currently my clients are paying $32. I honestly don't think you will find many people interested in paying $40 as $35 seems to be the newest highest price people are charging (I hope that makes sense).
When my daughter was in daycare I paid $32/day plus stats but nothing for vacation time.
Hope this helps.

[Crayola kiddies]

I'm in the Ottawa area and parents pay for all 52 weeks of the year .... The only days not paid are my sick days ..... The average here is $40/day

[shopgirl]

wow! glad i found this site. you ladies are all so helpful!

i found most places were $35.00 but saw a couple at $40 and was wondering what justified them with that price. however for all I know they have 1 spot filled. I wasnt sure if it was always 35$ and people are starting to raise thier prices to 40 which is why I saw a couple places like that. however it sounds like 35 is actually the new norm and there must just be a couple who are either trying for more or maybe they are in demand and can charge that.

I am so look forward to this. a little down that Ashleigh mentioned there are alot of daycares in the area. hmm thats not good. its what i want do do. trying to get everything in place for September. if i cant be totally ready by then then i will probbaly wait till after christmas in january so as you can see i am just in the very early steps in getting ready.

playfelt - chart is a great idea. think i will start there. thanks!

[ECE53]

In a south suburb of Ottawa 49.50/day. Three weeks paid holidays and one unpaid.5 paid sick days and two paid personal days. Paid for all government stats and family day. It took me a little while to work up to this but glad I valued myself enough because this is a difficult job and we need a break.

[Bookworm]

I wouldn't be discouraged. I would get your daycare area set up as soon as possible and start advertising now so that parents will see that you are ready and know what the set up will be like. Just to let you know, that because you are new (like me) it may take a while to get full, but it will happen, and that is due to being new, not because of the amount of daycares in this area.

[shopgirl]

ashleigh - ok so what you are saying is that there is a demand enough to be full but being new its harder to get children at first (assuming parents are more leary about going to a new place) and once you have been established for awhile there should be no problem being full? income aside it would probably be nice to start slow anyways to get into a groove i guess.

[Bookworm]

Well, I can only speak from my own personal experience. I have been open since January, and I have 2 spots still to fill. I have had a few inquiries, but so far nothing has come of it. I am a qualified teacher who chose to stay home with my kids rather than start my career, so I let people know that.
I am quite confident that I will become full at some point, but when I don't know. I created a website to let potential people know what I offer and my rates, so that my time is not wasted and neither is theirs by those not fully interested in using my services.

[Inspired by Reggio]

I am in Ontario.

My fees are based on the 'space' being occupied in my program not your attendance in it ... allowing non payment to clients for sick days, vacation or what not opens a HUGE can of worms in regards to trying to BUDGET for your business...I personally could not afford to offer clients unpaid vacation on THEIR part because if all 5 clients choose to take the SAME suddenly you have no revenue coming in but you still have your bills to keep the business viable and so forth!

I have two fee options for parents depending on how they like to budget.

$160 / week for full time space Monday - Friday 9 hours a day max - you pay the same fee 52 weeks and the program is closed for all stats, 10 days of vacation and 10 personal days a year.

$173 / week for full time space Monday - Friday 9 hours a day max - you pay for Stat closures but when I close for vacation or a personal day your fee is lowered that week $34.60 / day for each day closed.

Either way at the end of the year I am making the SAME amount of $$$ it is just all in how clients prefer to budget and when I have clients on fee plan B I just make sure to put an extra $13 of their fees into my savings each week if I am sick and need a day off I am not 'hurting'.

[jec]

I am also in Ontario and charge 170/week
I take 2.5 weeks vacation where I don't get paid and then as long as daycare parents give me two weeks written notice, they can take an extra 2 weeks of their own unpaid.
All stat/civic holidays are paid regardless of time away from daycare.

As a Mom who worked outside the home, I used to hate that my daycare provider used to dictate holidays and then if I was taking any other time off, I'd have to pay 50% of her fee. that used to dig into our holiday money that we worked hard to put aside.
Having the two weeks written notice gives me time to make adjustments knowing that I'll be missing that income for the time they are off.

[Inspired by Reggio]

See ... I agree it can be a challenge to budget for things .... however when you go on vacation you still need to pay your RENT/MORTGAGE, PHONE BILL, CABLE, GYM MEMBERSHIP and any other services that are based on the 'space' used principle and IMO it is no different in OUR business either!

I know some banks now are having a 'vacation' from your Mortgage payment as a selling feature - but the reality is you pay MORE 11 months of the year so that you can take 1 month on when you take your summer vacation or what not ... you are still paying the SAME it is all in how you budget it ;)

So for example .... if I was going to offer clients 2 weeks vacation were they did not pay me than my fees would just be $7 more a week on my pay options and I would put away $20 a pay from each client into savings to cover that 'down time' in income - but either way I would be making the same amount of money I NEED to make this a viable business option for me at the end of the year ;)

[shopgirl]

that is my issue when i think about this. Ideally i would want 2 weeks vacation paid a yr plus stat holidays. they would also pay for there own vacations. even with notice i cant plan loss of money. i still need to buy food, pay my mortgage, hydro etc. none of that goes away when people take vacations. (i would have any sick days or personal days as unpaid days)

i am surprised by the amount of people that allow so much unpaid time which i think will hurt me when i dont and i try to look for clients.

[Inspired by Reggio]

...I am surprised by the amount of people that allow so much unpaid time which i think will hurt me when i dont and i try to look for clients.

I empathize .... this is why I offer the different payment plan options so parents can compare apples and oranges when choosing providers ... fees in my area range from $20 - 40 a day depending on things like this and so forth so if you sign on to a $20 a day provider only to find out you are paying 52 weeks a year regardless and she takes 5 weeks off, you are sending your own food, paying additional for any 'field trips or outings' and so forth ... when you add in all those extra expenses the parent is putting out verses the provider it is costing them likely the same as if they had gone with a $35 a day provider.

Bottom line is that at the end of the day we need to make a VIABLE wage .... if you are only charging $20 a day AND providing the food, any program expenses and on top of that you are letting parents take 2 weeks unpaid vacation or not paying if they do not use care and not paying for Stats or your vacation and so forth .... you will be making way less than minimum wage for the very DEMANDING work that we do through out the day - sorry but why bother than you could work a few hours a week at Walmart and make MORE money than?

[shopgirl]

I agree!

I guess I just thought when i worked anywhere else by law i had 2 paid vacation weeks a year. I could never go on vacation and take a week's wages loss at the same time. I just assumed i would take 2 paid vacations a year with daycare as well but am surprised while starting to research how many people dont charge for all this time off.

[Inspired by Reggio]

Ya - that is cause we are self employed and therefore we are seen as 'different' .... however our industry is unique as well in that while prior to a vacation a self employed hairdressor for example can take on 1 extra client a day for several weeks to make up for the income she will loose during 'closure' .... we unfortunately can NOT which is why I am an advocate of you pay for the SPACE you are occupying because our income is limited to the # of clients we are legally allowed to have ;)

I am sure if the government came along and regulated that hairdressers or chiropractors or what not could only ever have a max of 5 or 8 or whatever clients a day that THEIR practices for fees would change drastically as well to make up for the income they would loose if sick or taking time off and not able to 'make that up' either before hand or after by filling up their calendar with extra clients ;)

[Momof4]

I'm in London Ontario and will be charging $32/day this year with $35/day for part-time care. I charge the same rates all year 49 weeks a year and parents don't pay for my 3 weeks of vacation time off. However, if they take vacation any time when I'm open they still pay full fees.

[Mom of 3]

I live in calgary. I charge $35 per day. All stats are paid for me. I take 5 days paid vacation and 10 unpaid personal/sick days. Any vacation the parent takes, is still paid in full to me if they want to keep the spot. It's all in my contract, I believe I should have the same rights as people who go to work, why should I be any different.