Naptime Crying....tough love?

[gcj]

So, I have a 4 year old who has begun crying (and let me tell you, she's LOUD!) during naps. I understand that she's 4 and has less need to nap. I'm fine with that, but EVERYone here is and has always been obliged to lie down and relax. At 4, if they are outgrowing naps, they must lie down for 1/2 hour. If after that time, they are unable to sleep, they get books, puzzles, etc on their mattress.
This girl understands what she must do for that privilege, but usually can't make it 5 minutes without screaming to pee (she goes 3 times after lunch and before naps) to have a tissue, or for mom. She is playing games, and I know it. SO my question is, today she has been crying for 10 minutes now. I don't see any reason to go see her. She knew the deal. Am I wrong in just ignoring her. It sucks if she wakes up the others, but maybe it's worth it, if she gets that I'm just not going up there....any thoughts???

[Inspired by Reggio]

Yup - by that age I am all about tough love!

I would tell her that quiet time is quiet time - once she has peed after lunch she is not make ANY noise and rest her body ... that means no talk, no sign, no SCREAM for sure and no get off her bed for the 30 minutes you expect of her ... and I do do tough love if they are not QUIET for that entire 30 minutes than I restart their clock for them ... if they wake up the others they STAY on their bed while the others do quiet activities until the two hours of quiet time is over!

I have also in the past done a 'wake up reward' jar ... so the natural consequence being that IF they are noisy, do not rest, do not allow ME to get my chores done and to also rest than in the afternoon we are all to 'tired' to have much fun and well I still have to do my CHORES so the crew can sit at the table with BOOKS as the only option while I do those .... HOWEVER if they rest quietly for the allotted time (I am extra tough love and expect an hour from them) and if they allow ME to rest and get my chores done THEN when quiet time is over and the babies are up and rested they get to pick something out of the 'fun time jar' to do in the afternoon either outside or inside depending on the weather .... this is a great incentive for my crew when I first opened and was trying to sleep train multiple newbies between 2-4 who tried to play off each other ... within a week they were all napping 2 hours ;)

[gcj]

well, the tough love is tough on me! She woke up a baby who has been crying for an hour now. I usually look forward to Wednesdays because my daughter has all day preschool and I get time to myself in the afternoon. No such luck today. And tomorrow I have a replacement scheduled in the afternoon so I can go to my son's school spring concert....now she's got me nervous about that! argh!

[Inspired by Reggio]

Oh at HER age if she woke up the babe in my house her 'options' this afternoon would be VERY limited as a result ... you did not get your break so YOU are tired, the baby did not get their nap so is tired and likely needs more 'attention' so you have less hands for doing FUN stuff .... so she would be staying on her bed even though everyone else is UP until she has rested her 30 minutes ... if you have to get her off to move on with the group - she can sit there beside you on the floor and play with a dust bunny .... if you are feeling generous let her have a book or puzzle if she is at least now being quiet ... when you go outside she sits and does nothing and watches other older kids if you have them get to do something FUN because they are well rested and have the energy to do so since they RESTED QUIET at nap time ... and at the end of the day you tell her hopefully tomorrow SHE will rest quietly and be well rested and she can play in the afternoon and have fun instead of having to 'sit' to conserve her bodies energy!

I would also be telling the parents they need to TALK to her at home about being RESPECTFUL at quiet time and resting her body quiet and perhaps try having a natural consequence at HOME as well ... you you did not rest your body today so you get NO TV or whatever loss of privilege might motivate her to comply!

BTW I am not a hard ass like that if they WEE and just honestly are not 'well' and wake up and cry out cause they are having a nightmare and wake others or cry out in teething pain ... but if you are a verbal child capable of understanding the expectation to 'rest quietly' and you are CHOOSING to be disruptive and disrespectful to the sleep needs of others - well watch out cause protecting the sleep of the others is VERY important to me!

[gcj]

oh, don't worry...I hear you. She's always been a bit of a master manipulator! Get this?!?! She's sound asleep now that it's time for everyone to get up! And after 45 minutes I got her baby brother back to sleep...So, I just have 2 to deal with until we have to go get my son at the bus. But, yeah, she'll be shadowing me until mom gets here.

[Momof4]

I have two 4 year old children who sleep 2 hours every day still. They both just turned 4 and will be off to JK this Sept. so I'll probably shorten their naps this summer but they are good sleepers.

I also have a little boy who comes on his PD days and he's almost 5 and doesn't nap at school but he brings his little DS player and plays with that for an hour laying on his bed in the dark room with the rest of the children then when his eyes get tired he puts it down and closes his eyes and usually sleeps the 2nd hour. Does this little girl have any game that lights up like that so she could play for a short while then relax?

[Skysue]

Hi,

I have two 4 year olds as well and they don't always nap but must sit for quiet time. They sit in the family room with the curtains drawn and blankets on. I put on a movie for them each day or a video. I usually let them pick it.
The odd time they may get restless so I sit with them or let them do a puzzle or something quiet!

Mine sit for 1 hour to 1 1/2 hours each day!

[Inspired by Reggio]

Lord I feel cruel ... my 6 year old who is in SK is still required to lie on the cot for the first portion of quiet time and rest her little brain for a while ... the only noise I want to hear during quiet time is the quiet solitude music playing as white noise for those sleeping to drown out those who snore or those resting but flopping around a bit!

My stepson if he was home during 'quiet time' was still required to lay down and 'rest' his body right up until he was 10 ... he could listen to his MP3 with headphones on and sometimes he read ... but he rested his body same as everyone else including ME ... I lie down for 30 minutes in the afternoon and read or just meditate to the kids quiet time music ... the body and the brain NEEDS a rest to be productive.

In Japan and other cultures they do this everyday even at WORK they have areas to lay down and 'rest' their bodies and brains .... and well look how productive and healthy that culture can be compared to our rush rush go go culture ;)

[gcj]

I feel guilty this evening. When I'm in it, I'm absolutely not giving in, and I think that's necessary when they're testing, but then after I feel I was too hard on them. But, I'd do it all over again. I know that I'm not doing anyone any favours if I give it. I think when it's my own kids, after they're still there, you have time to move on, do other things, hug, kiss.....when it's a dck, they're gone soon after and that's kind of how you end the day....I don't know...hard to explain.

[gcj]

ok...this isn't getting any better, and I can't do it anymore. :no: We agreed that she could have her little Leapster toy for 1/2 hour, then after that she's obliged to "rest her eyes" for 1/2 hour. VERY reasonable, I feel. Well, it's only actually worked a couple of times. As soon as she cries she loses the privillege of Leapster/books... and then has to complete the full naptime, crying or not...her choice. Last week she was on vacation and today we're not even back at square 1...maybe -100000! Most often, she doesn't get her privilleges for more than 5 minutes before she starts crying...no... screaming. I mean blood curlding shreiking. Her room is right above my dining room and today she was jumping so hard, I thought my dining room chandellier would come down! The globes were shaking.
I'm at a loss. I'm clueless. I hope that a week of doing this consistently she'll realize that it's in her best interest to zip it and keep her privilleges. But so far, not so much...and if she continues, I don't see how I can. HELP??

[Mamma_Mia]

Oh she needs a FIRM talking too and she'd be sitting on the stairs all day with NO toys. At 4 that is just not allowed! My dcg at 3yrs tried that twice and after not doing a.single.thing all day she now knows better

Good Luck

[Momof4]

TOUGH LOVE FOR SURE! A 4 year old should NOT behave that way ever. I would definitely not tolerate it. This is why I love babies to start with me before they turn 1, because they are trained to be well behaved before they are 1 1/2. I am strict but it's for their own good. They learn routines and it's very healthy for their little bodies to have consistent mealtimes, playtimes, naptimes and they know how the day transitions 5 days/week.

Part-time children are more challenging, but if you are firm and consistent every day they are with you and don't back down or ever give into their nonsense and let them know what is expected from them it does work.

[Inspired by Reggio]

Oh wow - I cannot believe you are still having to deal with this!

My first thought is she should have to EARN the toy in the first place verses getting it for 30 minutes and than being expected to rest ... A) many studies suggest that video games stimulate the mind of most people and actually 'impede' a restful state of mind so having the game first is counter productive to promoting sleep in someone who is struggling to 'rest' and B) she is likely spending that time focused on I am going to 'loose this' in x minutes anyway which is likely why she is starting to 'misbehave' anyway cause what does she have to loose she is going to get the thing taken away anyway?

Here the expectation is you rest quietly FIRST and if you do a good job you can earn a special quiet time activity ... if you do not REST quietly than you not only stay on your bed until the last person is up but you do not get to do anything 'special' for the rest of the day - you REST in a chair with books or your little imagination to keep you company and I make dang sure to plan something AWESOME ROCK YOUR WORLD FUN for the rest of the group!

I would also be talking to the parents with a WRITTEN WARNING and making it clear that rude disruptive behaviour at quiet time will NOT be tolerated in the program and while you do not care if she SLEEPS she MUST be quiet and respect the needs of both the children and yourself for quiet time and if this behaviour cannot be remedied within X days than your contract will have to be terminated ... and I would start advertizing for her space just in case the parents do not take the wake up call and put down the arm of the law at home with some consequences for her poor choices in CARE because there is only so much you can do within program with behaviour like this .... throwing a tantrum obviously is working SOMEWHERE for the child at this age or they would have learned long ago to behave!

[gcj]

yeah, I agree that she should have to earn the toy...makes sense. The thing is it's never enough....there's always another excuse to scream.
After 30 minutes, she'd worn herself out and slept for an hour and a half, but we had a MAJOR talk after, and she had to do "velcro" with me all afternoon until pickup. Meaning, she had to stay with me...sitting alone, had snack separately, had to hold my hand on our bus pickup run and even during outside playtime, she waited on the stairs until dad showed up.
After a week away, I totally anticipated this, but now is to time to come down HARD and lay down the law. The parents are very supportive and take it very seriously. As much as I can't take it anymore, I'm not at termination yet in my mind. I've had her for over 3 years, and have her little brother, too, and they are great people.....
Hopefully we'll work it though.... :unsure:

[gcj]

momof4 I've had her full-time since 10 months old. It's popped up out of the blue.

[Inspired by Reggio]

.... As much as I can't take it anymore, I'm not at termination yet in my mind. I've had her for over 3 years, and have her little brother, too, and they are great people....

I empathize - I have a family like this in care whose been here for over 4 years and will be done in September anyway ... their eldest is a challenge some days to say the least but 4 out of 5 days are fairly good days so I try to focus on those and just bide my time until they are done cause the little brother is a cutie when she is not around and I do not want to loose him!

Hope you can sort out quiet time .... cause I am thinking if my above family had quiet time issues they would be gone - I can deal with a lot of things behaviour wise but do not mess with my money or my lunch break ;)

[mom-in-alberta]

As the mom of a 4 (5 in July) year old girl.... I can just say that this is, indeed, a difficult age at times. I don't remember half as many issues with my boys at the age of 4 as I have with my oldest girl.
I think that you are doing the right thing in being firm and consistent. She knows the rules, she is just testing them. And I also think switching the Leapster to AFTER rest/quiet time will help. SHe will have to earn that privilege. And if she doesn't, then no Leapster.
Hope that it gets better!

[gcj]

Thanks everyone. Just your encouraging words help. It's very draining. It's been the same thing at drooff the last 2 mornings. This am it happened at the same time we all had to go to my son's bus, so I literally had to carry her as she was kicking me in the gut and screaming. Another mom arrived at that time, too....talk about embarassing! My daughter's preschool bus somehow forgot her, so we had to be on the lookout for 2 buses in 2 spots....let's just say that by 9am I was done!
Now we'll wait and see what happens at 1. I anticipate the same thing, and honestly hope for it a little just because mom said that if she's good today she can go to work with her tomorrow...and I don't think she deserves it either way. And it'll set us back yet again. I'll tell mom that based only on this morning, she DID NOT earn it and by taking her to work tomorrow she's telling her that her behaviour at dropoff was acceptable.
Contract renewals are in 1 month and she's not helping herself!