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samantha3
04-27-2012, 10:03 AM
Hello,

I am just wondering what the governments role in Ontario is regarding childcare age #'s and ratios. I currently live in BC and am looking to move...

In BC I currently am licensed to take a max of 7 children - with the rule being that I can only have four children under the age of four (with only two of those under the age of two). Do you have any regulations like this in Ont or can you just take a certain number of children and decide the ages yourself?

I have been reading lots of posts and it seems that in Ont you can take five children with no age restrictions, is this true?

Thank you :)

jec
04-27-2012, 10:26 AM
In Ontario you are only allowed to have 5 children in care regardless of providers in the house. I know of a house in Brampton where the lady ran it like a daycare and had people working for her but, it got shut down as she is only to have 5 children in her care at one time at her home.
It depends if your with a licensed company like Wee watch or private. Wee watch or another licensed company will also consider your own children if they are under the age of 2 as part of your numbers and if private that isn't the case.
For me, I always included my own as part of my numbers regardless of their age because it was just as busy for me!

Sandbox Sally
04-27-2012, 10:32 AM
That's right. No age restrictions if you're a privately run day home in Ontario. The five children rule does not include your own kids. If you have ten of your own kids, you can still take five daycare kids of any age. If you want five babies, have at er...lol

Emily3
04-27-2012, 10:35 AM
In Ontario, you can have 5 "paying" children plus your own children, regardless of age!!!!! I think that many home day care providers choose to be independent and you do not require a licence or affiliation with an agency.

Oops, yes, what alphaghetti said!!!!!

Play and Learn
04-27-2012, 10:39 AM
For Ontario, if you're unlicensed (so private), you can only take 5 children under the age of 10 years. You can go with an agency, but there are different rules and regulations that take place.

samantha3
04-27-2012, 10:52 AM
thank you for the info! Very helpful. In BC I am assigned to a 'licensing officer' through the government, does this happen in Ont?

Play and Learn
04-27-2012, 11:12 AM
thank you for the info! Very helpful. In BC I am assigned to a 'licensing officer' through the government, does this happen in Ont?
If you go private, NO! With private, you're on your own!
If you go with an agency, I believe you just have to deal with the agency.

Inspired by Reggio
04-27-2012, 11:59 AM
Yup - in Ontario we currently still have a 'choice' to be private or with a regulated agency .... which is awesome I LIKE that clients have CHOICE verses an entirely government mandated options which than make all programs sort of 'cookie cutters' of each other and take away that meeting of individual client needs or program philosophies so to speak!

IMO there are pros and cons to both models depending on the level of support you need as provider and the area you serve as clientele there can be pros to being with an agency for sure ... for example regulated agency care appeals greatly to those who need and are eligible for social assistance in paying for childcare - aka government subsidy ... so if you live in an area of a city where there are a high % of clientele who NEED this service you might have better luck being full and viable with an agency .... however if you live in an area where the market can bare solely private clients and fees than there is more advantages to being 'private' - I myself started with an agency and decided to go fully private because I have always been able to find my own clients and be full with full fee paying clients - there was not 'benefit' to the agency for me business wise and it was wasting their resources having someone come out to 'inspect' the premises when I had no clients on enrollment through them and none of my private clients wanted to be with the agency cause full fees with an agency are about $10 a day higher than what I charge privately cause well no 'middle man' is taking a cut of that private arrangement ;)

sunnydays
04-27-2012, 12:14 PM
If you are with an agency, your own children count if they are under ten, not just the under two's. And they count in the ratios, so if you have a child of your own under 2, then you could only take one more under two, etc.


In Ontario you are only allowed to have 5 children in care regardless of providers in the house. I know of a house in Brampton where the lady ran it like a daycare and had people working for her but, it got shut down as she is only to have 5 children in her care at one time at her home.
It depends if your with a licensed company like Wee watch or private. Wee watch or another licensed company will also consider your own children if they are under the age of 2 as part of your numbers and if private that isn't the case.
For me, I always included my own as part of my numbers regardless of their age because it was just as busy for me!

jec
04-27-2012, 12:21 PM
If you are with an agency, your own children count if they are under ten, not just the under two's. And they count in the ratios, so if you have a child of your own under 2, then you could only take one more under two, etc.

Sorry for the misinformation Samantha3- best to double check on all things before you open up. I'm going on what I was told but then I'm private but my point being, there are more regulations/restrictions when you are with an agency. Reggio has some good points about the pros and cons and good luck with the move :thumbsup:

Inspired by Reggio
04-27-2012, 12:35 PM
Here is a few link to the information that might be helpful Samantha

http://www.edu.gov.on.ca/childcare/index.html

http://www.edu.gov.on.ca/childcare/licensingstandards.h tml

samantha3
04-27-2012, 03:18 PM
wow, it is so different in the provinces! BC is mandatory to be regulated by the government. Although this has no effect on the way I operate because I can choose my own philosophies, policies, toys etc. the govt just regulates to make sure that child ratios etc are being followed. We do not have agencies to represent us out here. Crazy! Time to do some more research!

Thank you

Inspired by Reggio
04-27-2012, 03:27 PM
I wish we would adopt your way Samantha ... more home providers would be willing to be 'regulated' if it did not mean a middle man of an agency was taking a cut of the fees charged to parents....unfortuna tely there are rumors in Ontario that the government is pushing to regulate ALL home childcare were the only option will be to go with an agency or not provide childcare as a business.

In BC if a client needs 'government assistance' to pay for their childcare fees how does that work? Can you accept subsidized children into care - does the government pay you directly or do they pay the parent? I guess I should have started with does BC HAVE subsidy for daycare?

Here in Ontario if a client needs subsidy they have no option but to use a government licensed centre or agency model of care - because only those models can enter into a 'purchase of service agreement' with the government where the government pays the centre / agency the fees for any clients enrolled who are in need of and eligible for subsidy ... private home childcares can not accept subsidized clients.

samantha3
04-30-2012, 10:06 AM
Hey Reggio,

Yes, in BC we do have subsidy for all types of care. If you are in a licensed/regulated space you receive more money so there is more incentive to the family to seek that type of care. If you have a family on sub the provider receives the funds and then passes them onto the family.

Here in BC we are facing the future problem of having Jr. Kind in place taking away lots of our 'older kids' spots ( as we are only allowed to have 4 under the age of four years old ( two of those can only be under two)). It is interesting that you have these 'agencies'. I do not think I would enjoy being regulated by an agency.... I will have to check the links you provided again to see more about them.

Thanks!

playfelt
04-30-2012, 02:07 PM
They have had that discussion for years and years. When I first moved to Ottawa in 2001 I was involved in a childcare conference for home daycare providers and it was being discussed. At the time they introduced the Family Daycare learning modules and we all got a copy of the first module - all that had been written back then. It is now 3 or 4 modules long and a lot more involved.

I agree, that more caregivers would get regulated if the requirements made more sense including me registering directly and not at the mercy of a third party to make decisions for me.

While I enjoy the no regulations part of this business there is something to be said for registration as it would help to weed out those doing it illegally, many would think twice about even starting if there were basic requirements to be met.

Unfortunately government tends to go about things in the wrong way and ends up making everyone angry, confused or both. There was a study being done here in Ottawa a few years ago on a rating scale for home daycare and the hope was that it could be applied and that it would help to bring up the standards of home care. The problem with the ratings and scales was that it was based on centre care and didn't take enough of the home care situation into account ex in one chapter it said you score high if you have a water table always available to the children whether it be a commercial variety or just a dishpan on the floor - then in another chapter you scored poorly if you had an open water source such as pail, bin or water table in the room if you had infants. The reality for home care is that we generally have both age groups and have to find ways to make accomodations. So until government and those making the decisions understand us it is far better if we just stay off the radar and do our own thing.