Criminal Record Check?

[Sandbox Sally]

Hi guys,

Something I've encountered while setting up interviews in my new location is that a family wants me to have a criminal record check or a vulnerable sectors screening. I thought that when I looked into it last year, a home daycare provider that wasn't with an agency could only request the police clearancee letter.

What is your experience with this? I am looking on my local police site as well as he RCMP website, and it seems that an employer has to request the two aforementioned reports. As a home daycare provider, am I only able to obtain the police clearance, and not a vulerable sectors screening or criminal record check?

Any info would be very much appreciated.

[Inspired by Reggio]

Hmmm - I have never had any trouble going in and saying 'I need this done'?

They might COST you MORE money to procure them if they are for 'private' but you should be able to get them ... with an agency, employer or volunteer designation you get them either FREE or DISCOUNTED depending on which model you are doing ... I took on a client who had a child in the CAS system in the process of adoption so CAS did both all three types of checks on my RCMP, Criminal reference and vulnerable persons screening and I asked for copies for my records so I could have a more 'recent' set done.

[Crayola kiddies]

I just went into the police station and asked to apply for a record check for the vulnerable sector and I was given a form and I showed ID paid $15.00 and it was mailed to me about 8 weeks later. Everybody asks me for it but I thnk it's pretty useless. It seems tO give parents a peace of mind.

[Momof4]

Really? I only had one family ever so far ask me if I had a police check. I asked them how they thought I had time to do anything illegal in my life while raising 4 children as a single Mom and asked them to look at my resume and find a quiet time there. Hehe, they didn't sign on.

[Sandbox Sally]

Ok, so I can go to the RCMP and get the vulnerable sectors check?

[Sandbox Sally]

I want to add too that I also think they're ridiculous. I don't have a criminal record. I have never been arrested, but even if I had, say for shoplifting or doing something stupid when I was young like loitering or public drunkenness or something... does that outweigh the glowing references I have or the fact that I still have four kids in my care every day? Dunno...nobody here in Toronto asked for one, but seems everyone in the burbs need to see it. Weird.

[Sandbox Sally]

I just went into the police station and asked to apply for a record check for the vulnerable sector and I was given a form and I showed ID paid $15.00 and it was mailed to me about 8 weeks later. Everybody asks me for it but I thnk it's pretty useless. It seems tO give parents a peace of mind.

How long ago was this? I just called the police department and they said that an individual cannot apply for a vulnerable sector clearance check. The only ones who can do this are agencies or organizations. Individual persons cannot apply. I guess the clearance letter will have to do. If parents get nitpicky about this, I guess I don't really want them anyway do I? lol

[playfelt]

Most parents won't know the difference ass long as it says police clearance. For many parents they are asking for it because on all the new mommy chat groups and websites that list what to ask daycare providers it is on there.

[Crayola kiddies]

It was about 18 months ago here in Ottawa .... And a criminal record check is different then a check for the vulnerable sector .... They are not looking to see if you stole a candy bar they are looking to see if you are Chester the molester..... They are looking to see if you have any offences where children are concerned. unless things have changed truly all I did was walk in and say I was a daycare provider and I needed a records check.

[Sandbox Sally]

Crayola, how is a criminal record check different than a vulnerable sector check? They offer the same information. By the way, I completely understand that they don't care if I stole a chocolate bar, but why would a convicted child molester take the chance of opening a daycare anyway? Seriously, sometimes I don't know what parents are thinking. I maintain, if someone isn't satisfied with a clearance check from the police department, I don't want them in my care anyway. :)

[Crayola kiddies]

My understanding is that a vulnerable records check only deals with offences regarding minors....

[Crayola kiddies]

Ok so I went to yahoo and put Ottawa police services into the search line .... When I go on to their website on the right hand side I clicked on how to obtain a record check and that brought me to a page that described everything about it. Look it up it tells you the difference between a criminal check and a check for the vulnerable sector ...there is even a downloadable form .... Hope this helps ; )

[Sandbox Sally]

It seems that they check pardoned sex offences for the Vulnerable Sector Verification, but not for the Criminal Record Check. Otherwise, they're the same, meaning they both list any criminal record you may have.

This is frustrating. It doesn't say anywhere how I can get one.

[Bookworm]

Crayola is correct, the vulnerable sector one is more in depth and checks for any pardons, etc. I just have a regular police check and honestly, no one ever asks for it. I don't think most parents would be able to tell the difference between the two. I do have a vulnerable check that I had to get while I was in teachers college over 5 years ago, but I wasn't going to get a more up to date one when I opened my daycare because in my city it takes like 3 months minimum to get one, so I just got a regular one and got it in 5 minutes. I agree, the websites aren't that forthcoming on how to go about getting one. I would just call and see if you can get one being a self employed person. If not, just get the regular one if you want to.

[Inspired by Reggio]

Yup that is my understanding - the difference in them is that 'criminal reference check' does not include pardons as well is only for incidence in your own jurisdiction - province... so if you were a 'serial thief' in Alberta and are now living in Ontario it would not show up in a Ontario Police check.

A vulnerable screening check includes EVERYTHING from charges laid to 'pardons' but again only includes your jurisdiction - province.... so is useless if the person offended in another jurisdiction!

An RCMP level check covers all of CANADA so if you've lived in other province and have a record THERE it would show up on that ... I am not sure exactly what is needed to have this done privately though or the expense... we had them done only because my spouse WORKS for them now and it was part of the hiring process .... and they seriously investigate you up the wazoo not just my spouse and me but all of our extended family members were investigated so any client signing on with me now has the peace of mind in knowing that 'law breaking' would be a huge risk for us both financially as well as legally ;)

[Sandbox Sally]

Ashleigh, that's what I said. But anyway, Crayola, I can't get one through Ottawa, as I live in Toronto, and I guess you'll have to take my word for it that when I call the Toronto Police Records Services, they say that individuals cannot apply for a VSV.

[playfelt]

Mine is old too and I refuse on principle to get a new one. I have heard some say that they suggeset they even be "updated" every few years and one suggestion was to do it the same time you renew your first aid - how stupid a tax grab is that for your municipality. I can give names of daycare parents back over 20 years and if that isn't good enough for a family then I agree that is not the family for me or anyone for that matter. They are putting their faith in the wrong things and that usually translates into a paranoid family that read too many books, listened to too many people, not taken the time to relax and just enjoy their baby which often means an irritable hard to soothe infant - all because they tried too hard to be good parents. Sad but there are too many like them out there.

[Inspired by Reggio]

Ashleigh, that's what I said. But anyway, Crayola, I can't get one through Ottawa, as I live in Toronto, and I guess you'll have to take my word for it that when I call the Toronto Police Records Services, they say that individuals cannot apply for a VSV.

If you really want one go into your school and ask them what you need to do to 'volunteer' for a field trip or in the classroom ... cause you have to get one in order to do this and they will provide you the paper work to 'request' it ... and it is much cheaper ;)

[Sandbox Sally]

The Vulnerable Sectors is through the RCMP even when you apply for it through your local police detachment. It's national, no matter from where you obtain it.

[Sandbox Sally]

Doesn't matter any more, as I already applied online for the Police Clearance Certificate. I am in a horrible mood. Sorry if I am sounding bitchy. Not at all meaning to. I love everyone here.

[Inspired by Reggio]

Mine is old too and I refuse on principle to get a new one. ....

I agree ... mine is a couple years old now too and the only reason it is that new is because CAS paid to have one done on both my spouse and me in order for a client to place a child in the midst of 'adoption' into my program and because the child was technically a CAS ward all adults who care for CAS clients must have police check and vulnerable screening check done - they gave me a copy of them.

A police check is only good if the person has been CAUGHT doing something wrong, charged and found guilty of it so there is a 'record' .... they are basically only good at preventing 'convicted' people from getting a job and well even then only if they have not MOVED to a different jurisdiction!

So if a client really wants a 'current' one I would tell them that I am more than willing to undergo another one however because I already paid to have the one done at the start of my business that any additional ones would be on THEIR DIME .... my willingness to have one done shows that I have nothing to hide and well if they want to PAY for it so be it and if they do not want to pay for it than IMO they do not really VALUE it either ;)

[Crayola kiddies]

I agree with everyone ... It is a useless piece of paper and all it means is you've never been caught at anything... I have one thats 18 months old... I show it to parents and they never look at the dates most of them barely even look at it but make you dig it out ....good luck with your move and you new daycare alpha

[Mamma_Mia]

I've been asked many times if I have one, and I say no but I will get one if you'd like me too. and that's as far as its even gone.....no one has ever actualy asked me for one.

If it's THAT important you'd think they'd inforce it, right? dont get me wrong I'm happy I haven't had to go through it, but I don't have anything to hide!

[mom-in-alberta]

My area, the typical documents are the Police Check and a Child Welfare Check.
I agree, the police check is worth less than the paper it's written on. It only shows something that I have been charged with or prosecuted for. If someone has been pardoned, that won't even come up.
The Child Welfare Check will show any investigations done by Family Services, like any allegations of abuse and so on. Funnily enough, I have never had parents ask me for it, even though it has slightly more relevance. I say slightly, because I still would have to have been reported to have anything show up.
Silly.

On a side note; why so cranky? :ohmy: Everything ok in the Alphagetti house? Or just havin' a bad day?

[Sandbox Sally]

On a side note; why so cranky? :ohmy: Everything ok in the Alphagetti house? Or just havin' a bad day?

Thanks for asking. I am better today. I just have a LOT on my plate with moving and working full time and homeschooling my daughter. I'm also trying to get insurance on a new vehicle that's in NS and the new house insured and moving all the utilities, etc. My middle child has a raging case of strep throat, so I've been dealing with that too. My husband is on the road Monday to Friday, too, so all of this is on just me.

One of my current daycare moms is asking for extra days, because they too are moving, and "y'know, it's just a LOT for me, and I could really use the help of you taking him". Yeah...because I am just sitting around doing nothing...frustratin g as I have to listen to her whine about how hectic her life is because she works, has a toddler and is moving. OH really? I have THREE kids, your kid, two others, a ft job and I am moving too. But hey...bring it on, right? Sorry, just venting. And it does feel good!

Oh and fielding daycare inquiries, some of which border on the absurd...haha Just a lot at once. Oh, and my A/C isn't working properly and it was 39 yesterday w the humidex, and not much cooler today. AND my landlord wants to show the house on Saturday and it's a rat's nest...like I said, I am just a little overwhelmed. Reading over all that made me want to cry. Sigh. Bah! I will definitely be ok. Our new house has a hot tub. LOL

But - the good news is, I have SEVEN interviews in my new town. Seven. I am very excited about that. I am pretty sure I will be full by September. And that's at the new rate that I am going to standardize in my new town :D (if any of you caught that thread).

[Sandbox Sally]

I've been asked many times if I have one, and I say no but I will get one if you'd like me too. and that's as far as its even gone.....no one has ever actualy asked me for one.

I said the same, and two different moms said, yeah, anyone who cares for my kid will have to produce a record check. So...hopefully it comes back and I can pick it up before we skip town...otherwise, I'll have to make a trip back to the city to grab it.

[Momof4]

Alpha, sorry you are so stressed! It sounds like a lot and I hope you get the move over and the new daycare full soon so you can relax.

I'm wondering why so many people in your new location are asking for a police check. Was there an incident that scared everybody recently?

[playfelt]

We seem to go through cycles in Ontario and not sure if it is media driven or what but I think there are too many mommies on local mommies boards and talking and sharing and scaring each other.

For a few years it was first aid certificates being up to date as in within the last 6 months or less even though they are good for three years - used to be five.

Then it was references and not just daycare they wanted a personal reference - well now we have facebook for checking out your weekend friends and activities I guess.

Now it is the police check. I think because it has expanded to be so in demand everywhere that it just becomes the thing to ask for. It has gotten to the point of silly but every organization is in a panic to protect themselves legally. As I said earlier we were to have one to be a sunday school teacher so instead of getting one I refused to teach. My son had to have one to help with a soccer team for under age 7 even though the only time he was with the boys was on the field and parents were there cause the kids were too young to get themselves there as in he wasn't responsible for them just there too. I get it sort of just wish others would get that the false sense of security is going to come back to haunt them in the end because it proves nothing.

There are several checklists for parents floating around on Ontario websites - including listed on teh CCPRN unless they have changed it but one of the questions parents are told to ask about is if we have insurance. That is for my protection not theirs and as far as I am concerned non of their business. Have had a few ask about it and my response to the question has always been "Why are you planning to sue me?" to which they mumble something and usually change the subject. If they insist on an answer I tell them non of their business and that has totally got the interview off on the wrong foot and it usually doesn't go well from there cause I am mad at this point or they are annoyed or both.

I think media does do a lot of the damage in how they report about incidents, etc.

[Inspired by Reggio]

I am going to disagree about the role of insurance ... as much as I hate it it does protect BOTH parties .... if something happens in your home and a child is seriuosly injured while in your care proper insurance will ensure that YOU are not out of pocket any expenses they need covered as a result of the injury ... for them your liability insurance not only covers the child's extra medical costs but the lost income and so forth of a parent to be home caring for them as they recover and all the other outcomes an accident can have ... having insurance or not does not prevent them from suing either way the difference being is your insurance paying them or are you remortgaging your house and having wages garnisheed???

I provided proof of insurance in my portfolio - just easier IMO the police check, first aid and all those other checklist type things are in there so I never get asked for them and half time noone even really LOOKS at them ? I have only had one client ever call my references as well????

[Emily3]

Sorry you are having a crazy time Alpha.....i'm sure that new hot tub will soon become your best friend!! Just thought I'd mention this in case anyone else is trying to find out about a clearance. I walked into the peel police headquarters, filled in a one page form, showed my passport and was mailed my vulnerable sector clearance. It was no big deal at all!!

[jec]

I just recently went through getting a criminal record search done for myself and husband ( requested by client- I offer it but never been asked until now)
It should be on the bottom of the application form for you to tick off when you go to your local police station.
Congrats on the interviews...pour yourself a glass of wine and get into your hot tub and let some worries go away for a while!!!
Keep us up to date on your interviews. fingers and toes crossed for you!!

[wolfpup]

I have one and it is stated in my handbook that both myself and my husband have them... however have NEVER had a parent ask to see it. They seem happy that I have it, but dont want proof! lol