Keeping kids after hours

[apples and bananas]

My very first clients ever started with me a year ago. I was new, I had a set of basic policies but they were nothing compared to everything I have in there today. She's my last of the first set of clients that I still have.

Her normal pick up time is 5:30. Some days she's here as early as 4 as she works from home, but as a rule she waits until the very last minute to pick up the kids.

She sends me a text today at lunch time that says " I know I've been picking up the boys early lately, but today will need to be a bit later, I hope that's ok " I asked how late she says " dad should be there by 7" WHAT!!!!! ???? !!!!

LOL So, my response, I'm sorry I have plans at 6:30, they will need to be picked up by 6.

So, here's my question... Anyone else deal with a client who picks up early one day and feels they have the right to pick up late the next?

By the way, I sent an email on my lunch to reinforce pick up times. I'm a pretty easy going person, but out of courtesy at least ask me before you drop them off.

[Lou]

That is ridiculous...do you have a closing time? Why did she think it would be acceptable to pick the kids up at 7??

[jec]

My hours of operation is from 7am until 5:30 and my daycare parents can use any 9 hrs within this time frame. I do get them to sign off on hours but if they need to change it then I ask them to let me know out of respect. NEVER have I had a client ask for later than my hours of operation.

If you had plans or not, that is your time and she should respect that. Unless it was an emergency, I would do just as you did and let her know that she needs to pick them up. If she chooses to pick them up early one day - those hours don't tack onto another when she needs them.
Hope she is respectful of it!

[Crayola kiddies]

Yes I have one as well and although they have never even come close to my closing time she picks up all over the place ... She has more appts then anyone I have ever met .... She will text me one day and say her dentist appt finished early so she will pick up early then the next day she will say she is going to be late a half hour cause she wants to stop at the grocery store ....very frustrating .... Disrupts the other childrens naps and never asks if that is ok? But I would not be ok with 7 pm at night . I would say to the parent .. "Sorry I'm closed at xxx o'clock you need to be here by then"

[playfelt]

Picking up early is the choice of the parent. Whether I AM AVAILABLE after hours is MY choice. Never should a parent just assume that it would be ok. Till 7 is not going to be a bit "late" that is just rude. On the other hand my fee for extra services would be $10 an hour so that is an extra $20 plus $5 if you want them fed supper so for an extra $25 well.... some days I just might. Or do it once or twice for the money and then when she pulls it the third time just assuming she has that right say sorry got plans need picked up by 5:30 as in no overtime which will hammer home the I have control of overtime.

This is what it says in my contract:

14) DROP-OFF/PICK-UP:

Parents may use only the hours scheduled in their signed contract. Any changes must be approved ahead of time. Do not assume I am available for extra care outside these hours. I plan my own family’s activities according to the contracted schedule. Children not arriving within 15 minutes of their scheduled drop-off time jeopardize the availability of care for that day. Late fees will be due for each hour or part hour for children not picked up on time. No drop off or pick up during naptime please (12:30 – 3:15 pm daily).

[apples and bananas]

So frustrating! I allow the different pick up times because I've always allowed it to be honest. I sent her an email stating that this is my closing time and any late pick ups need to be requested at least 24 hours ahead of time and I may not always be able to assist. In other words, if you need to leave them late, plan it! Don't text me 5 hours before pick up and try to extend it then play it off like it's owed time.

Her response was " don't be sorry, you're not obligated, just wanted to see if you were able to do it" She's a frustrating one for sure.

[Inspired by Reggio]

Wow - ya um NO!

My hours are my hours and you stay within them - your paying for the space contracted and you drop off by 9am or you risk arriving to a empty house and you pick up after 3pm unless previously arranged to avoid disrupting quiet time ... if you use less hours that is your choice you do not get to make up hours another day!

[apples and bananas]

So, dad was supposed to be here no later then 6. At 610 I text mom as dad wasn't here. She responds 10 min later telling me it will be another 20 min. So, that puts him here at 640.

I'm already super late for my appointment.

What would you do? How would you handle this?

[Momof4]

I charge $5/half hour late fee after my closing time of 5pm. I would need a lot of advance notice to keep a child even 15 minutes late. No way would I let a child stay til 7pm. That's INSANE!

You should hand them a bill for overtime charges in the morning, including any charges for your appointment if you had to cancel it. My doctor charges $20 for a missed appointment, I think that's fair! Time to be tough a&b!

[mom-in-alberta]

Yup, time to institute a late fee. Funny how, when you hit them in the pocketbook, it seems to sink in.
If you don't have one yet, it's time to institute one, effective immediately. Send out notice to all parents. They are going to know that they are the reason, and frankly, who cares? Next time they are late, they pay. If they don't pay, no care is provided. Next step, termination.

[Crayola kiddies]

If it was me I'd hand them a bill for late fees along with a termination letter .... You told her no and she did it anyways ..... That is total disrespect and clearly she thinks you are her employee..... Sorry I'd terminate even if it was my only family .... Cause I would not allow myself to be treated like that.

Btw ... She wouldn't get two weeks either .... It would be immediate as in her stuff would be at the door

[Lou]

Exactly what Crayola said.

[Dayhome Mamma]

omg. I can't believe the guts that people have!

[jec]

I had one family who was always late and it seemed no matter how hard I tried to give them head's up that it was my daughter's dance class- my husband had to take her. thankfully he was home but I missed being a part of it. It's because of this family that I have in my contract that a $5 every minute you are late will be put in place if child is consistantly picked up late. I have yet to inforce this but will give a written letter to a daycare family once this policy will start taking place.
My long stories point- do the same to them. they have no respect by the sounds of it which is a shame as you are working together to help their little one.
I would either give them the one last chance and and or give them termination letter.
Sorry you have to go through this. I like to give people the benefit of the doubt and think the best but it sounds like this family likes to take advantage and might keep doing it even if you put in a strict policy.....then you have the stress of collecting money if they decide not to pay it and arugue their point of they gave you notice..picked up early one day....

OK I just talked it out on your thread and I would end it. You dont' need this stress. :(

[Inspired by Reggio]

....What would you do? How would you handle this?

Its a challenge because up to this point your policy of flexible hours and allowing them to 'change and extended' them without additional fee or negotiation on your part just them 'telling you' and not having clear 'hours of operation and late pick up policies' have given them the impression that THEY are in charge and this is ACCEPTABLE and therefore it is going to be hard to break that without conflict on both your parts - if you want this to STOP you are going to have to get FIRM about your hours of operation that you serve clients, about sticking to the contracted hours they agreed upon and charging MORE if they are regularly using more than a normal 8-9 hour day cause they are wanting you to work overtime for FREE, plus a STIFF late fee for being late past their contracted time AND I would add a clause that while you empathize that on occasion emergency might arise that result in a client being a 'few minutes late' and that is why you have the late fee to ensure you are compensated for those rare times that repeated lateness of more than ONCE per year WILL result in immediate termination of your service contract and forfeiting of their security deposit!

They are not going to LIKE that hard stance on your part if you have up to this point been 'lenient' and sloughed it off and they might actually PULL on you however IMO if you do not stand up and say ENOUGH and treat your business like a business before you know it you will be raising those children for more than 12 hours a day for your normal daily fee you quoted back in the beginning - you will basically be working for FREE for this family once you've fed their kids for that many meals and so forth!

Sorry but as Crayola mentioned - I would not stand for being treated like that specially in my own home .... their behavior is screaming that they do not value or respect you - the person who is helping to raise their children for them and well sorry but that is just inexcusable!

[jec]

I don't think you saying you have flexible hours gives them the impresion to go over your hours of operation. Flexible hours to me is that your flexible during those hours your open. I think they are taking advantage. Would they expect a store they go grocery shopping to stay open for them past their hours of operation because they are running late and need them to be more accomidating. They know when you close and that isn't or wasn't up for misunderstanding
However...if they seemed to misunderstood that and I would give them notice today what your meaning of flexible hours are if your planning on giving them another chance.

[jazmic]

I agree with what everyone has said. If you don't do something about this now, you can count on it happening again. You can always add an amendment to your contract with them with your new rules and fees for closing time and late fees. If they don't want to sign off on the new changes, that would mean termination. All the best.

[michellesmunchkins]

I personally feel that regardless of what you offer (flexible hours or what not) you specifically told her that you had an appt at 6:30 and she blatantly disrespected that! That's ignorant!!!! I can't really offer advice on what to do as I get walked on too in this business and have a hard time being the 'hard ass' that I should be to make the families treat me with respect...I totally feel for you! :(

[Mamma_Mia]

I personally feel that regardless of what you offer (flexible hours or what not) you specifically told her that you had an appt at 6:30 and she blatantly disrespected that! That's ignorant!!!!

This exctly!!
There was no miscommunication, you told her no because you have an appointment to be at and she ignored it. She just said to you "YOUR things arent important, I'll come when I'm ready". Thats a big NO-NO.....late fee letter would be given ASAP with a warning....a LAST chance warning.
And put yours adds up, sounds like they will try again. Don't stand for it

[mom-in-alberta]

Please please please..... tell me you addressed this issue with her today??
And got mad, as you had every right to be? Even reading this for the second time makes me very frustrated on your behalf!

[Sandbox Sally]

Yes, I would put out an email notice immediately stating that effective immediately, every 5 minutes (minute, or however you want to work it) a parent is late, you will charge X amount. I would further say that everyone must acknowledge the email by replying before the child can return to care.

That is completely disrespectful. I also can't believe she TOLD you instead of asking you. And I also can't believe the gall of them completely disregarding that you refused the extended hours, and just didn't bother showing up.

Personally, I would terminate them. I think what they did is sneaky and would completely break my trust with them.

[Crayola kiddies]

You guys are all waaayyyyy nicer then I am cause she would get a big ole NEXT from me. She was told that the provider had an appt and the kid had to go at a certain time but the parent held the provider hostage by not picking up her kids when she was supposed to ..... No warning letter from me the kids stuff would had been at the door when the parent came with a letter ready .... And they wouldn't set foot back in my house again ..... You can't let someone treat you like that .... Next

[apples and bananas]

I was closed today to go on a class trip with my son.

However, I sent her an email last night that was very straight forward and to the point. "due to the extreme lateness today your additional late fee will be XXX"

I didn't want to send an angry letter so I was professional and just advised of the late fee. She responded within the hour appologizing, but also said "sometimes you can't control traffic" So, it was a half appology. It's just the way she is.

I don't have a "flexible" schedule with her. I really don't care when she drops off in the morning, but her pick up time is 5:30. When she started with me my hours were 6pm. When I changed the hours I didn't address them with her as she is never past 5:30 unless she's running a little late, which I really dont' mind. When I have to be somewhere I let her know and she's always here.

Here's my problem with the whole thing! She didn't really ask if she could leave the kids here late, she did a "by the way, if you don't mind, we'll be late to get the kids" When I said no she told me her husband would be here by 6 (which was fine) . I sent her an email mid day with the message that I now close at 5:30 due to family obligations, I can take the kids till 6pm. I need 24 hrs notice to request late pick ups and I'm not always able to do it. She responded that I shouldn't feel obligated and it isn't my problem, it's hers, she'll make sure her husband is here by 6pm.

When he showed up, I had them ready and waiting at the door. I hardly said 2 words to him. I had my kids in the van and myself there with the van on and in reverse to wait for him to leave the driveway. I was so mad!

It is incredibly disrespectful. She does think of me as an employee. I don't really need her business or her kids, but I feel bad terminating. I think I need to.

I'm not sure how I'm going to handle it face to face tomorrow. I may give her a final warning note and tell her anything later then XXX time from now on is grounds for termination. It's hard because I find it very disrespectful, but she just sees it as her husband was stuck in traffic.

[Momof4]

You just said it all apples & bananas, she definitely does not respect you or your business or your family. She sounds like a very selfish, entitled type woman and she needs a wake up call that the world does not revolve around her alone.

Good for you for remaining professional and I think you handled it in an excellent fashion. Grounds for termination indeed!

[Sandbox Sally]

You can't control traffic??? You said NO to the late pick up. He should have been there at 5:30, and he shows up at 6:40? Girl, that's not traffic. Sorry. I would be even MORE pissed with her giving an excuse. Get rid.

[apples and bananas]

UPDATE!

I handed mom this morning a copy of my policies explaining that I will not be careing for her children after 5:30 going forward and if there are any further lates I will have no choice but to terminate. I highlighted some of the other issues I'm having with her following my policies. She looked at me shocked! If she chooses to leave over this then so be it! I've worked so hard on this little guy. He has come close to termination a ton of times due to his behaviours and mom doesn't assist at home. I finally have him at a spot where he's litening and learning and responding. It's such a shame when you make leaps and bounds with a child only to loose them because of deliquent parents.

Thank you for all of your support. The several amounts of replies telling me to immediately terminate almost talked me into it! But, we'll see if anything changes from here on in. If not, out they go.

[jazmic]

Good for you. I know it's hard, but you had to take a stand. Good for you for being courageous enough to have what must have been a difficult conversation. :)

[Bookworm]

Good for you for letting them know that they are on thin ice! That's the part of the job I hate, but sometimes we need to put our foot down.

[Lou]

I'm so glad you let them know exactly how it's going to be! Hopefully, she's realized she can't walk all over you now and you'll have no more issues!

[Sandbox Sally]

Congrats apples. Let no parent push you around. Easy for us to say when it's not us...lol I hope I can count on your support when I need it too. ;)

[Inspired by Reggio]

Good for you hon!

And good luck to her finding anyone else willing to what you have done up until now - if these are her expectations she will likely end up bouncing from program to program until she gets to school where 'chronic lateness' picking up your child will result in CAS being called for 'abandonment' .... if traffic is an issue for your commute you PLAN to leave earlier to accommodate that!

I worked with a women once who was late EVERYDAY because she got caught by the 8:30 train that went through - it is not rocket science that the solution is to leave 5 minutes earlier and miss the train - yes you might arrive to work EARLY but hey sit and enjoy a coffee in the comfort of a staffroom verses in the pollution filled car waiting on a train - some people just make me shake my head at how they cannot problem solve a solution that works for EVERYONE - her lateness resulted in her peers being over ratio for that 20 minutes and we had to either tell clients 'you cannot drop off your kid cause the next staff is not here' and dealing with their anger or we just went 'over ratio' and hoped the Ministry did not come for a spot inspection at that time :rolleyes:

[Lou]

Was she on time this evening?

[apples and bananas]

She was very early. She came in with my policies in hand like she's never seen them before! And questioned a few. I don't think it's going to be too long until she goes elsewhere or I'm going to have to terminate. I won't work in a hostile environment... i simply don't have to. Either she get's along and plays by my rules or here comes here 2 weeks.

In my mind she was sneaky and totally intended to just leave them here until she needed to regardless or my closing hours or plans. In her mind I'm sure she thinks I'm over reacting and can't control the traffic, it's all her husbands fault. LOL

[Crayola kiddies]

I agree apples she did it intentionally .... She told you that she was picking up late and that's exactly what happened regardless of what you said cause she views you as her lackey. She probably never read your contract and policy book as she was going to play by her rules so yours were of no consequence. But you see all of a suuden she can show up on time. I think your right she won't be there long cause she's not in charge anymore, I'm sure she's already looking. Start advertising! Have a great weekend!

[Lou]

She sounds like a real winner! Did you remind her that those have always been the policies? haha. I would start advertising as well just in case! At least she was early!