Feeling really confused....

[Lucy1212]

This has never happened to me before and I have been doing daycare now for 20 years! I have been doing Daycare to a sister and brother 3 years old and 20 months old since January. My fees are $1,000 a month they come Mond - Thursd. Have never had a problem with the payments until today... I go check my bank statement online and the cheque I had deposited on July 3rd, came back marked "stop payment"! What does that mean??? and even worse this family has gone on holiday and wont be back until next week! So I have no way of contacting them. I am out of $1,000 and because of the cheque bouncing it messed up my account :( I'm just so fustrated right now, really needed to vent! I don't understand what could have possibly happened. Have never had a problem with this family both parents have really good jobs, they live in a beautiful area close to my home, they are well established in the neighbourhood, so not the type of people to skip town or anything like that. Anyone else had similar experience?
Ugh midnight already and I'm not going to be able to sleep.

[Inspired by Reggio]

Oh hon that is horrible!

My understanding of banking is that ' stop payment' means that THEY had an issue and put a stop payment on their end because they do not want to pay for service this month for whatever reason.

I would call the bank and ASK and explain that this cheque was for service already rendered and see what they say on their end.

Do you have email or text information on the family cause even though they are on vacation I would email/text them or call them at whatever number you have and leave messages to deal with this NOW!

Do you keep a security deposit on clients???

In my mind I would would start advertizing to fill the spaces so you are not without income any longer than possible .. hopefully this is a mistake on their part and they will correct it ASAP but my gut tells me they are skipping out on you for whatever reason :(

[jazmic]

The bank can't do anything if the client is the one who put a stop payment on it. You have to get hold of these people somehow if you can and find out what'd going on. Can you e-mail them?

[Inspired by Reggio]

The bank can't do anything if the client is the one who put a stop payment on it....

I was thinking more to clarify did it bounce or not .... however my understanding is that a cheque technically is legal tender putting a stop payment on a cheque for services ALREADY rendered is FRAUD and the bank needs to know that ... it is one thing to put a stop payment on a posted cheque because the person did not 'complete' the job and so forth so is not legally entitled to the money and you want to make sure they do not try to cash it .... but to do it for services you 'received' my understanding is that is illegal???

I could be wrong but I would be calling the bank to find out one way or another? If people can put a stop payment on cheques for services they RECEIVED and there is no legal recourse for the service provider than I am thinking time for them to stop allowing people to have cheques?

[michellesmunchkins]

I, just this week made changes to my contracts and families where I will no longer accept cheques from anyone. Email money transfer and cash only. I too kept getting stuck with clients bounced cheques, bank fees, chasing after families and excuse after excuse for why it was happening. To save myself the hassle, I just refuse to accept them at all anymore. Email transfers are due in the morning of the first day of care, cash at drop off as well. I also take a one week deposit as a just in case. I can't imagine being out $1,000. I'm so sorry this happened to you :(

[jazmic]

I was thinking more to clarify did it bounce or not .... however my understanding is that a cheque technically is legal tender putting a stop payment on a cheque for services ALREADY rendered is FRAUD and the bank needs to know that ...

I see what you mean. I thought you'd meant that the bank might be able to release the funds, which they can't do.

[Judy Trickett]

They are bolting. They aren't coming back. My guess is they found other daycare and strung you along long enough so they wouldn't have to pay anyone over their holidays. It was underhanded and dishonest.

If it were me and what I assume to be happening is correct I would sue them for the money.

[playfelt]

I am assuming the money is for the month of July and you either provided one week of care so far or no actual care as they have been on holidays. One of two things has likely happened: 1) they decided they needed the money for vacation and they plan to reimburse - make it right blaming the bank for the error - when they get back after arguing a bit about having to pay while they were gone or 2) they have no intentions of coming back and needed the money as the securitiy deposit for the new caregiver.

Either way I would start advertising and if you fill their spots before they get back good for you. It is doubtful there was a bank error. You might be able to find out from the bank what date the family posted the stop payment on and that might help with clues.

I get paid weekly in advance and have a two week end care deposit.

Guess I should be finding out from the bank how long after a cheque is deposited can the client change their minds and rescind the amount - ie once it is already paid out to me and cashed. Also what is the rule about cashing a cheque for cash - can the bank just go into my account and recoup the total amount from my other money.

[dodge__driver11]

So sorry to tell you this, but a stop paymeny means they stopped it for one reason or another....I feel so badly for you!!

Please start advertising.....

Do you have a deposit to fall back on?

:(

[Crayola kiddies]

Like Michelle I too only accept cash and EMT for this reason. Good luck and I hope it works out in the end

[Lucy1212]

I am definateley updating my contract and my payment policies because this is not going to happen to me again, I am so screwed for this month. For the life of me I don't know why I don't have e-mail contact info for this family although I don't know what good that would do since apparently they are camping. I tried calling their cell phones and texting and no luck but maybe they are out of cell phone range. I'm going to contact my bank today and see what kind of info they can give me. It just doesn't fit with this family that they would just leave...
Thanks everyone for your input I'll see what happens when they get back... they are supposed to be back on Monday. I already put up some ads and if by chance I do get the 2 spaces filled (which I doubt kinda hard to do during the Summer months) guess they will be looking for other Daycare!

[Lucy1212]

Oh yes, if this is what happened, I will be taking legal action $1,000 isn't peanuts. I have my contract with their signature.
I hope not because ... really... what kind of underhanded people are these ... they never gave me one clue that something was up!!

[Mamma_Mia]

Sorry to hear this Lucy, I agree with Reggio, I'd be letting the bank know that this money is OWED to you and if THEY don't clear things up you WILL persue legal actions. Maybe MAGICALLY they will be able to contact the family and explain to them their choices.....pay or court?

This really does suck!

My families right now all pay me in cash but I'll have to wait and see with the new family starts in August, if they give me a cheque I will have my "revised" manual that explains cash or EMT only.

Good Luck

[dodge__driver11]

The ONE family I do take cheques from knows that if this happens, I WILL NO LONGER TAKE THEM! There are also HEFTY LATE FEES --if the cash is not recouped the same day.

[Judy Trickett]

It just doesn't fit with this family that they would just leave...


NEVER underestimate how selfish a dcfamily can be. Seriously.

[Lou]

Another angle might be that they thought "hey, we're not going to owe the full $1000 this month because we'll be away for a week, we'll just deal with it when we get back"
Either way, it was completely disrespectful to you and if they did take off, absolutely follow through with legal action for the money. That stinks!!! Let us know what happens!

[apples and bananas]

oh that's horrible! I feel awful for you. I just lost one child to daycamps for the remainder of the summer and I'm balancing all of my stuff around... I thought I had it rough.

When do you recieve these cheques? Doesn't make sense that they gave you the cheque and then cancelled within a day or two. I can't quite understand if this is June services or July services, either way, I feel horrible for you. Hopefully you can get it all sorted out on Monday when they return.

I would be hesitant to take that large of amount of money on a cheque.

It always amazes me when I hear these stories. They've trusted their children with you and then they screw you on the way out. UNREAL! I'm so sorry.

[Momof4]

I don't think the bank can do anything for you unfortunately. I agree with Judy that it sounds like they aren't coming back and this is so selfish and horrible. I hope we're wrong about that.

I too am paid in cash only! Occasionally a family forgets to go to the bank and brings a cheque, but not often and I like it that way.

I wish you luck but I also agree with the poster who said - get your ads up NOW.

[Inspired by Reggio]

BTW ~ for your research ;)

This is an episode of Marketplace that might be helpful if they have indeed put a stop payment on your cheque for services already rendered ... I did not watch in its entirety but this is a quote below from the article ... so there may be hope that you get your money yet and I would definitely call your BANK and explain your side just in case ;)

http://www.cbc.ca/marketplace/2009/busted/busted_cheque_cashin g.html


Canadians who think that putting a stop payment on a cheque prevents someone from cashing it might be in for a surprise. As Erica Johnson reveals, a 100-year-old law is being used by some cheque-cashing outlets to make the writer of the cheque pay up -- stop payment or not.

[Lucy1212]

Thank you so much for everyone's input, just trying to get through this week, this family is supposed to come back on Monday from their 2 week holiday so I will soon find out what's going on.
I still have no clue on what happened. All I know is that I want my July payment!!! even if they didn't want to come back to my daycare for some reason.... they would have had to give me a month's notice! I have the contract with their signatures, I will be taking legal action... $1,000 it's not peanuts! it's almost half of my income...
Their children are not the easiest kids to do care for either, I had worked so hard with them to get them to where they were now, I potty trained the 3 year old girl, the boy when he came here didn't walk didn't talk was way behind in a lot of things, the daycare was so good for him because he just started walking and saying so many words. I'm going to still give them the benefit of the doubt but if not ... how ungrateful and heartless people can be is beyond me. :(

[Lucy1212]

It amazes me too what people are capable of doing! This is the July payment... this family gave me the cheque on June 29th their last day here before holidays, it's so strange... it almost makes me think that something happened to them the day after but WHAT? don't know... it's a freaking mystery now!

[Lucy1212]

Thank you so much Reggio, will definatley be looking at this today!!
I'm so happy that I found Daycare Bear and this forum!! I don't feel alone anymore in this!

[country girl]

I always like to give people the benefit of the doubt...it just seems so strange & out of character from what you've said about this family. Were they travelling to the US on there holidays? I know I had a problem before with CIBC where they completely froze my account when I went over the border as they considered the charges "suspicious" and I even had it happen on occasion where my bank card wouldn't work (with both CIBC & RBC) and was told my card was comprimised so they had to cancel it which is a great safety feature however a royal pain in the a$$....Maybe something like that happened to them? They may not even be aware that the cheque did not clear if this is what happened. Definately let us know what you find out on Monday...and my fingers are crossed for you that they are not trying to screw you out of money :(

[godsgirl]

Hi There!

I worked at a bank for a couple years and a stop payment means that they personally requested that the cheque be stopped for whatever reason. They have to be VERY precise giving the name of who the cheque is written to, date it was written for, the cheque number, and the exact amount. There is also a like a $12 fee that they have to do in order to do this and it has to be done at the latest one banking day prior to the cheque coming out (At least that was how it was done at the institution that I worked at). Most of the time it's done because they don't want to pay whoever they are paying or don't have enough in the account and it's cheaper to do a stop payment rather than have an NSF charge.

Unfortunately, the bank can't do anything about it because it is a contract between you and the payee. So sadly, they won't be able to do anything for you regardless if the services have already been provided :( . They can't even tell you why it was done, when, etc as it's a client privacy thing.

I hope that it's just a misunderstanding and that they aren't skipping out on you. Good Luck :)

[Momof4]

Thanks godsgirl, I used to work at the CIBC and that's what I said. That the bank can't do anything about it, but I thought maybe things have changed since I worked there about 20 years ago, hehe.

[Inspired by Reggio]

The challenge with 'business policies' and the 'law' is that they do not ALWAYS MESH and when push comes to shove the 'law' is what will prevail ;)

I do not doubt that bank 'policy' what I am saying is check that there is indeed NOTHING they can do because according to the Marketplace story and the links within there is a law that says a cheque is legal tender and you cannot just 'stop payment' on that ... you might have to take the client and the bank to court to get your money but there is precedent with these cases recently so perhaps the bank will 'avoid' being taken to court and just honor the cheque cannot hurt to let them know you know about the LAW and so forth and see ;)

Another example I worked for over 10 years in centre care where it was policy that all staff and children had to be immunized in order to work or attend the day ~ heck every year employers would organize having the Health Unit come in and poke you with the flu shot and for years I thought I had no choice that the policy was the law cause otherwise why would they be able to have it ... and as well all know NOW that is not true you do not HAVE to immunize your children to attend daycares or schools but still every year they send out warnings that you 'your immunizations records are out to date and must update your immunizations or risk being expelled' .... and so many people end up immunizing cause they think they HAVE to but what that letter REALLY means that your school or organization does not have your letter of 'exemption' on file stating that you choose not to partake in them! But there are still many in society who think it is 'law' that you have to immunize your children ~ I see debates about that all the time online parenting forums?

[playfelt]

If the cheque is for July then it was payment in advance of services so there would be no claim. The only thing claimable would be taking the contract to court for payment of the severence in lieu of notice. Hoping the family comes back on Monday all apologetic with a really good reason why they suddenly had an emergency that required the money. And that you let them know that because of their actions all special events, outings, crafts etc. have been cancelled for the month due to the financial hardships you are facing due to the lack of money to pay for these things upfront.

[Naftafia]

I am with country girl on this one. Although all the clues point to it being done with bad intentions, i would strongly suggest staying as calm as possible (although prepared) until monday and I really hope you will be able to reach them. My only thought is that for some reason they had to stop the payment to allow other direct withdrawls to be made and somehow forgot to contact you in the haste of camping preparations.
If you are unable to reach them on monday, do you have another contact number for urgent matters... if so I would revert to that!
I really hope this is a terrible misunderstanding because i really don't want to think that people could be this selfish and careless.... although I know it could happen :(
Good luck!

[Sandbox Sally]

No advice, just a hug. What an awful thing to do. I would terminate, regardless of their motives.

[Lucy1212]

Hi everyone! so here is the latest. Last night (Sunday) the Mom calls me with a really frantic tone in her voice, wants to know if she could quickly come over to my house. So she comes over with $1,000 cash plus $200. They had just gotten home from their camping trip where there was no internet and just some cell phone reception, and heard the phone messages that I had left them and was truly confused and upset. The only thing that she can figure out is that her bank when she changed chequing accounts screwed up, she really was upset and angry and was of course going to look into it today (Monday) on what happened at their end. She apologized profusely and kept asking me if I was sure $200 was going to cover the NSF charges on my end. So, my hope in human nature was restored! Oh yes and this morning the kids both came with little presents for me! She's going to follow up with me on what exactly happened, but from now on it's going to be cash!
Thanks everyone for your kind words and helping me through this past week when I was in a panic! it's always good when it's a happy ending!

Lucy

[Inspired by Reggio]

Phew awesome news for you - frustrating for them for sure with the timing of it all!!!

[Lou]

Phew!! She must have been in a panic when she heard your messages!!

[country girl]

Woohoo! I actually thought of you this morning & kept checking the forum for updates LOL...sometimes it does pay to give people the benefit of the doubt. :thumbsup:

[Momof4]

Wow, that bank story sounds kind of fishy to me, but I had a client who was telling me stories about why she couldn't pay on time in my first year in business. I learned not to put up with any more late payments. I'm really glad this worked out well for you in the end though. Be on alert for any more silly problems, ok?

[Judy Trickett]

Wow, that bank story sounds kind of fishy to me, but I had a client who was telling me stories about why she couldn't pay on time in my first year in business. I learned not to put up with any more late payments. I'm really glad this worked out well for you in the end though. Be on alert for any more silly problems, ok?

I agree. Fishy. Maybe I am just cynical though. Because my thought is still that she found other care and didn't want to pay for her vacation. I still wouldn't be surprised if she did find other care and it fell through and she came home to that message too. ;)

But, like I said, I have seen so many providers abused over the years I am probably as cynical as they come.

[Junelouise]

Sounds like they do not want to pay for their vacation time, but they should have told you this in advance and wrote out a new cheque for whatever you agree on. Yes, try to email or text them and ask what the heck is going on? They can send money to you by email or Western Union if they have to. I feel this was sneaky as they did not mention a word to you about payment for the month of July. See if you can get ahold of them first, then advertise their spots. Is your policy to charge Flat Rate (pay whether kids are there or not). If so, then yes they are skipping out on you or just being cheap!

[jazmic]

Hey June, the issue has already been resolved. :)

[Lucy1212]

Thx so much for all of your replies! Was on my hols camping and for the first time in a long time when I got back last week I was missing my little ones! LOL! I'm really happy everything turned out ok with that family because their little boy ... although a terror... is the sweetest thing. So their bank actually called me and apologized for their mistake it was their error so the bank actually reimbursed me for all the NSF fees, I had 3 cheques going through not knowing that I had no funds in that account! Anyways, hope it doesn't happen again!!

[jec]

I consider myself to be positive and always try to give people the benifit of the doubt ~ I just have a feeling that they were on holidays...might not have had enough money for their time away and needed to use the money they were to give to you and then were going to be OK when they got back to give you their money.
Not to be negative but I think your smart to ask for cash moving forward then there is no mistake.
I haven't worked in a bank but have done a stop payment before and had to go in and give cheque number and specifics.......just stay on the side of caution with this family with cash and I would even take it a step further with a note to them nicely worded so there is no misunderstandings in the future of I was rushed and didn't get to the bank and here is a cheque.
Glad it all worked out!! I'm sure they are lovely people but you run a business and need to make sure that your have yourself covered.....just in case. I I have faith in human nature but it's also human nature to look out for ourselves and if they are in a 'pickle' again, they will look out for their own needs first. I really suggest putting together something for cash only moving forward in their contract- a revised payment part and or memo professonallly written
Glad it was a happy ending :)