VENT: Sooooo frustrated!!

[Littledragon]

I'm a new daycare provider. It took me a while to fill up. I'm not 100% full right now, but I have enough clients to survive - and then some. I have a 14 month old (who you all know has been SUPER difficult this entire time), a 10 month old and a 2.5 year old. The 2.5 year old is amazing! His parents are amazing! Everything is great! The 10 month old is the one I am struggling with now. And it's not the baby - it's mom. So, mom started looking for care bc she wanted to go back to work (this was in MAY). She gave me a deposit and signed all the paperwork but never told me of a start date. FINALLY we decided on July 2nd. Two weeks before she started, she told me she was pregnant and that's why she was panicking about finding a job (that's right, she never had a job, was just assuming she would find one easily so wanted to find care right away in case she had to start a job right away). Problem was, she didn't know how far long she was bc she'd just stopped breast feeding and had only one cycle. I asked her, said she didn't have to, but if she could tell me how far long she is - or whatever - just so that I have a ball park idea of when I need to start looking - or whatever. I'm pretty sure she won't keep the baby in care when she has the new one. She still hasn't said anything.
And she STILL hasn't found a job! She tells me all about her interviews, but she has yet to find anything *she wants*. The week before her daughter started, she told me she HAD TO BORROW MONEY to pay for care for July. I had all the faith that she would eventually find something. Yesterday, she told me that she has enough money to pay for two more weeks, but if she doesn't find anything in the next few weeks, she's going to have to pull her daughter out. I hated to do it, but I reminded her that once she knows for sure what's happening, I need a termination letter with 3 weeks notice. That gives me a MAX of 5 weeks to find a new client. Problem is, there's NOTHING right now. Like not even emails! I am so frustrated with her right now! I have half the mind to just let her go! But then, I'm worried about whether or not mom DOES find a job. I mean, her daughter has been GREAT. She's adjusted really well! She's been a cake walk! And, for the most part, I like mom. But I just....I don't know what to do! And to top it all off, she mentioned starting a business, and getting a small business loan, she said then we could continue. Does she think she's going to make money right away with her business? They can't afford to pay for care if she's not work - clearly. And her mat leave is up mid August. Does she not realize that this is my business?? That this is how I make a living and how I provide for my son. My husband works for the govnt so maybe she thinks we could do without the money. Although, she is a VERY selfish person, I think. My son may have possibly had pneumonia last week (it ended up just being a chest infection) and she dropped her daughter off anyways bc she said she "had too much to do to bring her". I was flabberghasted that she would risk her daughter's health like that. Now her daughter's sick. Anyways.

UGH!!! I was stress free for a week!! And now...ugh. Stupid. I wish parents weren't so annoying lol

Thanks for listening!

[Play and Learn]

I would personally demand to know when she's due. Then ask, like you said for the 3 week notice. Advertise like hell.

If she doesn't let you know, then advertise anyway. Remember, this is your business. YOU need to provide for you and YOUR family. Don't let others push you around. YOU COME FIRST!!!!

I personally wouldn't put up with someone like that. Yea, the kid is great, but you also have to deal with the parents.

[Cocoon]

Totally agree with above. You should start advertising and when/if she finds a job then you will have 2families to pick. And come here and ask us which family you should pick :) Take care of your self and your family. And do what is best for you. Hope it helps

[Inspired by Reggio]

Oh this is that one part of the job that is stressful and frustrating ~ the lack of control over continuity of clients ~ their own job security with promotions or layoffs, family life changes such as additional children, separation or divorce, illnesses or death that causes their priorities for care to change without notice :(

I personally would not be angry with this new client ~ IMO she has been honest and up front all the way along .... her not having a 'job' when you signed her on was a risk that it could fall through and well the pregnancy does complicate that for sure but she did not 'know' at the time and she might not know how far she is along until she can get a dating ultrasound ~ she cannot 'control' that and only give you a 'guesstimate' anyway ...

IMO the reality is she did not have to SHARE any of this with you and she was within her right to kept it to herself until she handed you the 'notice' as per your contract .... keeping you in the loop is a sign she respects and values you and is hoping to make it 'work' .... so for me I would not 'punish' that by terminating her ~ I would keep interviewing to try to get my other spots filled for sure but I would be hoping and sending out vibes to the universe to make this client work ~ who knows she could land an awesome job and you could end up with both kids at some point?

I know it is hard I try very hard to trust that the universe will meet my needs and what happens happens for a reason ~ not saying I do not hope for the best and plan for the worst in having a buffer of savings for those down times but more often than not as stressful as 'change' is in the moment things tend to work out for the 'best over all' once we have a chance to reflect on them!

For example I had a family get lay off notice in the New Year and than within weeks of each other BOTH parents had pink slips for lay off so 'no income' would be coming in for them so daycare was a 'what to do' issue plus I had one space I had been sitting on choosing not to 'fill it' cause of the time of year and not wanting an 'infant' yet AND a parent leaving on mat leave in February approaching ... I was worried about being down 3/5 of my income right after Christmas :(

So I got into interview mode to fill the 2 'for sure' spots I knew would have for February just in case I lost the 'laid off client' and filled the 2 spots with a sibling set 8 month old and 3 year old so nice mix of ages and fortunately the laid off family the mom got a new job right away and well it is July and dad is still not working full time but he is picking up 'odd jobs' so their child is in care still so that option is there for him .... it all worked out.

Come September I will be back to having 3 spots as my two eldest and the 3 year hold who started in February all head to school full time .... but I am thankful that my clients keep me in the loop so I can 'save and plan' to the best of my ability .... but the sad fact is our 'income' rests in the whim of people beyond our control and yup that is stressful for sure.

[Littledragon]

Reggio, you're right. She has kept in the loop and I appreciate that. She could be a TOTAL bitch and not say anything until I get the letter.

It doesn't make this situation any less stressful and frustrating. And the most frustrating part, I think, is that I don't have the means at the moment do be saving for a "what if" moment. I am just sraping by with these three. I am not a fly by the seat of my pants type of person. I always like to have a plan and a guarantee. If I'd known daycare would be like this, I don't know if I would have done it. It's so hard and when you have parents like this - that are so up in the air, it's really hard. And on top of that, one of the other kids is leaving in October because HIS mom is having a baby. I just filled up and come October, I'll be down to one again. If I could just get some emails....

Advertising like crazy....sending vibes to the universe!

[Littledragon]

I would personally demand to know when she's due. Then ask, like you said for the 3 week notice. Advertise like hell.

If she doesn't let you know, then advertise anyway. Remember, this is your business. YOU need to provide for you and YOUR family. Don't let others push you around. YOU COME FIRST!!!!

I personally wouldn't put up with someone like that. Yea, the kid is great, but you also have to deal with the parents.
Although I agree with Reggio that she has been keeping me in the loop, I am still frustrated with her. And I agree with this as well. I think that if I find a new client before I know how far long she is or whether or not she has a job, I will probably let her go.

[Inspired by Reggio]

.... YOU COME FIRST!!!!...


... I think that if I find a new client before I know how far long she is or whether or not she has a job, I will probably let her go.

I have said it before on this forum but IMO THIS THINKING quoted above is why we have a culture, specially in home childcare, of negative support and everyone looking out for themselves and creating this karmic balance of 'lack of abundance' or 'trust' in each other where one person always ends up 'screwed' financially because the other person did what was 'best' for them not trusting that if we work together we can more often than not have WIN WIN .... IMO no one should 'loose' because they were honest and open with each other .... karmically that just sends bad mojo out into the world :(

Clients do not want to tell us they 'might' have a change in care coming because they are afraid they will get terminated because the stories from parents who HAVE had this happen fly around parenting boards and forums and well they read and see it right out in the open from the words of providers on forums like this so they KNOW it is a reality of some providers to do this and so they come at it as a 'look out for myself' instead of looking out for EACH OTHER. Providers do not want to share with clients that they might need 'time off' or that they are closing until the last possible second leaving clients 'scrambling' to find care because they are afraid clients will terminate on them and leave them without an income ... it is just so sad and IMO unnecessary :(

Fact remains that THIS is going to be your self employed daycare reality cause it happens to us ALL ... you just think you have it all 'figured out' and bam someone is leaving .... if I had a nickle for every one of my awesome professional kick ass program peers who 'just' got themselves full only to have someone give notice I would be RETIRED I was so rich ... honestly do a poll on here of how often people have 'turn over' of clients on a regular basis.

I have only been open since 2007 ~ I consider my turn over LOW because I have never terminated a client or had anyone leave on 'bad term's' and yet I still have had 17 children through my program since opening so the reality is that is an average of 4 new children a year and well that seems like 'a lot' of turnover in that context!

Fortunately it has not 'felt' like that for me because of HOW my turnover occurs ... people moved because of job transfers, or they had a baby and chose to stay home, child graduated to school full time .... I am fortunate that all my clients have always kept me in the loop and all of them gave me MONTHS of notice about leaving so that I had time to start to 'save extra' just in case as well as prepare, interview and find replacements before they actually left so no break in income for the majority of them unless I CHOSE to be low cause I did not want a new one starting at the time and waited until a few months time!

I have had several clients 'be uncertain' of their future with me do to lay offs .... I have one right now whose in new year BOTH of them got laid off and while mom found better job right away the dad has been laid off since February but they are still coming and keeping me in the loop with how many more weeks they've been able to budget for cause dad has found some 'temp' work to help but there is that 'uncertainty' but I am TRUSTING that what will happen will happen for the best while planning for the potential loss in income by cutting back my spending and putting away a portion of their income into 'savings' in case they pull on me and I have yet another space open cause I already have 3 leaving in September for school!

However my experience has always been 'positive' with this approach and thinking cause I had a past client my first year who got laid off they told me that the day it happened, they shared they had budgeted for '6 weeks' of care to continue to give dad time to find a job and would let me know at the end of the 6 weeks if they would need to give notice entirely depending on how dads search went or it they could 'cut' more from their budget to cover daycare on a part time basis could I work with them to keep their spot cause they did not want to pull her if not they would understand and just 'pull' in the two week time frame and save their money since dad was off .... so open honest communication helped us to find a WIN WIN compromise for both of us cause it was not me loosing a child with only two weeks notice and being out income while I tried to find another client at a time of year when new enrollment is low ~ they were working together realizing/respecting this was my income while letting me know how I could help meet their needs too ... and thankfully the dad found a job before that 6 weeks was up and that child stayed with me another 2 years until school started but what makes me remember to TRUST in the universe is that because I was working WITH them despite taking a perceived small financial hit at the time cause who knows maybe i could have filled the space right away but it could have sat empty until the spring? However my point being that moving forward that choice paid off cause they referred me a new client next time I had a space, that new client than also referred me two new clients because they had a second child themselves and referred a coworker but if I had had that 'scarcity thinking' and panicked and terminated I would have lost out on 2 more great years with that family and 3 of my current clients who are all from that 'circle' of acquaintances would never have found my program and would certainly likely NOT been referred by that client had I just 'terminated' in favor of perceived 'stability' in some other client?

I get that we all have to keep our businesses VIABLE cause we cannot be working for free and so forth and that we have to keep our business goals in mind when making choices cause this is our business and responsibility .... I just personally think that there has to be balance in business in order to be truly SUCCESSFUL and that for me means having some faith in the pay if forward thinking of treat others BETTER than we want to be treated because than, even with the evil in the world, what we get back should at least be close to what we deserve in life if we are doing more 'good' for others!!!!

I guess reading this I am wondering if you are not FULL at the moment so it is not like you turned away other potential income in taking her on and if the child is awesome and the mother is being open and honest and respectful and is 'trying' to get a job and hoping to stay and willing to BORROW money in order to keep the space ..... why the need to 'terminate' her over this? To me everything you've shared is something I find admirable in a client who is putting securing quality childcare for her child FIRST???

Why not just keep looking for more clients so you have a bigger 'buffer' in your income and can use that $$$ to SAVE since it will be 'extra' than and wait and see if she has too leave eventually you were supportive and have had that time to find new clients ... who knows she might get a job that allows her to keep the youngest in care PT over the mat leave and so forth and the family might refer or help you build your business in some other way?

[Littledragon]

Reggio, you're right. I think I've said it before. I have HUGE control issues and have been taken advantage of in the past so many times as a nanny that when I decided to open my daycare, I wanted to make sure that it was all on my terms. I haven't terminated anyone yet, and I don't know if I would even have the guts to. The little boy that has been driving me NUTS since he started, I always seem to find an excuse to keep him. I don't like confrontation and I am ALL ABOUT karma. That's the way I live. Why shouldn't I live this way when it comes to my daycare? The parents who I felt were walking all over have seriously smartened up since I sent them my new policies and asked that they sign and return. I guess I just need to relax, focus on the goal at hand and realize that it will NEVER be perfect and that every family is different. Although, this business has one goal and one goal only: to be able to stay at home with my son and have an enjoyable life while living my life, and although it is still MY business, and MY rules, there is a fine line between being cold and unempathetic and being understanding and supportive. I guess I just need to find the balance that works for me. I will start looking for a new family, just in case. I have one spot left open. So, if I find a new family and this one decides to stay, then it's a bonus. I haven't have ANY complaints about my care thus far, and I would like to keep it that way.

Thank you for letting me see the reality. Yes, the reality is that I need to do what's best for my business and my family, but I also need to think about long term. Terminating this family would be a short term solution, but it won't help my long term word of mouth advertising, thus it would not help my business long term. :)

[Inspired by Reggio]

Yes I whole hardheartedly empathize and agree about the control issues and desire to protect oneself ~ I myself suffer from same issues and when I started working from home my one business goal was that no amount of $$$ is worth being treated like a doormat or having to perform a service that sucked at my soul or was contradictory to my belief systems or put my health and well being at risk ~ I did that in centre care for decades and well no more ;)

I am not willing to work with anyone who does SHARE my values anymore ~ we can have different idea on how to achieve those values but the ROOT VALUE has to be there and they have to be willing to work WITH me to achieve that come value and goal in their child, I will not work with anyone who does not respect and value me not only as a business person, a professional but as a human being ... I will admit that I am very picky about whom I choose to allow in to care to minimize having to deal with conflict over the bazillion different things people value in child rearing ;)

[Toregone]

I have said it before on this forum but IMO THIS THINKING quoted above is why we have a culture, specially in home childcare, of negative support and everyone looking out for themselves and creating this karmic balance of 'lack of abundance' or 'trust' in each other where one person always ends up 'screwed' financially because the other person did what was 'best' for them not trusting that if we work together we can more often than not have WIN WIN .... IMO no one should 'loose' because they were honest and open with each other .... karmically that just sends bad mojo out into the world :(



Your post was inspiring and actually put me in a wonderful mood on a very bad day. Clearheaded logical thinking sometime seems to be going by the wayside and it's great to hear someone express themselves with those characteristic

[Littledragon]

Well, just as I knew she would, she gave her three weeks today :( I am a little upset and I am trying not to be resentful. I'm trying to remind myself that she did the best she could and kept me in the loop the whole time. And a bit of it is my fault. I just had so much faith that things would turn out the way I needed them to that I sort of became complacent. I just really didn't want to have to deal with finding someone. I spent the past 4 months desperately looking for clients, and I had TWO weeks of reprieve. Now I'm looking again. Ugh. I hate looking. I hate waiting for THAT email. :(

[sunnydays]

Thanks Reggio! Sometimes I have noticed on this forum that people have a tendency to advise termination very very quickly and easily. I was thinking about this recently and wondering if these same people actually terminate clients as often as they advise others to! Not saying that termination is not sometimes necessary (I had to do it once myself), but I just think it is very easy to tell someone else to do it and we don't alwasy know the full story either. I agree that if the client is being honest and repectful and trying, I would not terminate, but would look to fill the remaining spot so that things wouldn't be so tight. Maybe she will end up returning when she does find work...but definitely not if you terminated her!



I have said it before on this forum but IMO THIS THINKING quoted above is why we have a culture, specially in home childcare, of negative support and everyone looking out for themselves and creating this karmic balance of 'lack of abundance' or 'trust' in each other where one person always ends up 'screwed' financially because the other person did what was 'best' for them not trusting that if we work together we can more often than not have WIN WIN .... IMO no one should 'loose' because they were honest and open with each other .... karmically that just sends bad mojo out into the world :(

Clients do not want to tell us they 'might' have a change in care coming because they are afraid they will get terminated because the stories from parents who HAVE had this happen fly around parenting boards and forums and well they read and see it right out in the open from the words of providers on forums like this so they KNOW it is a reality of some providers to do this and so they come at it as a 'look out for myself' instead of looking out for EACH OTHER. Providers do not want to share with clients that they might need 'time off' or that they are closing until the last possible second leaving clients 'scrambling' to find care because they are afraid clients will terminate on them and leave them without an income ... it is just so sad and IMO unnecessary :(

Fact remains that THIS is going to be your self employed daycare reality cause it happens to us ALL ... you just think you have it all 'figured out' and bam someone is leaving .... if I had a nickle for every one of my awesome professional kick ass program peers who 'just' got themselves full only to have someone give notice I would be RETIRED I was so rich ... honestly do a poll on here of how often people have 'turn over' of clients on a regular basis.

I have only been open since 2007 ~ I consider my turn over LOW because I have never terminated a client or had anyone leave on 'bad term's' and yet I still have had 17 children through my program since opening so the reality is that is an average of 4 new children a year and well that seems like 'a lot' of turnover in that context!

Fortunately it has not 'felt' like that for me because of HOW my turnover occurs ... people moved because of job transfers, or they had a baby and chose to stay home, child graduated to school full time .... I am fortunate that all my clients have always kept me in the loop and all of them gave me MONTHS of notice about leaving so that I had time to start to 'save extra' just in case as well as prepare, interview and find replacements before they actually left so no break in income for the majority of them unless I CHOSE to be low cause I did not want a new one starting at the time and waited until a few months time!

I have had several clients 'be uncertain' of their future with me do to lay offs .... I have one right now whose in new year BOTH of them got laid off and while mom found better job right away the dad has been laid off since February but they are still coming and keeping me in the loop with how many more weeks they've been able to budget for cause dad has found some 'temp' work to help but there is that 'uncertainty' but I am TRUSTING that what will happen will happen for the best while planning for the potential loss in income by cutting back my spending and putting away a portion of their income into 'savings' in case they pull on me and I have yet another space open cause I already have 3 leaving in September for school!

However my experience has always been 'positive' with this approach and thinking cause I had a past client my first year who got laid off they told me that the day it happened, they shared they had budgeted for '6 weeks' of care to continue to give dad time to find a job and would let me know at the end of the 6 weeks if they would need to give notice entirely depending on how dads search went or it they could 'cut' more from their budget to cover daycare on a part time basis could I work with them to keep their spot cause they did not want to pull her if not they would understand and just 'pull' in the two week time frame and save their money since dad was off .... so open honest communication helped us to find a WIN WIN compromise for both of us cause it was not me loosing a child with only two weeks notice and being out income while I tried to find another client at a time of year when new enrollment is low ~ they were working together realizing/respecting this was my income while letting me know how I could help meet their needs too ... and thankfully the dad found a job before that 6 weeks was up and that child stayed with me another 2 years until school started but what makes me remember to TRUST in the universe is that because I was working WITH them despite taking a perceived small financial hit at the time cause who knows maybe i could have filled the space right away but it could have sat empty until the spring? However my point being that moving forward that choice paid off cause they referred me a new client next time I had a space, that new client than also referred me two new clients because they had a second child themselves and referred a coworker but if I had had that 'scarcity thinking' and panicked and terminated I would have lost out on 2 more great years with that family and 3 of my current clients who are all from that 'circle' of acquaintances would never have found my program and would certainly likely NOT been referred by that client had I just 'terminated' in favor of perceived 'stability' in some other client?

I get that we all have to keep our businesses VIABLE cause we cannot be working for free and so forth and that we have to keep our business goals in mind when making choices cause this is our business and responsibility .... I just personally think that there has to be balance in business in order to be truly SUCCESSFUL and that for me means having some faith in the pay if forward thinking of treat others BETTER than we want to be treated because than, even with the evil in the world, what we get back should at least be close to what we deserve in life if we are doing more 'good' for others!!!!

I guess reading this I am wondering if you are not FULL at the moment so it is not like you turned away other potential income in taking her on and if the child is awesome and the mother is being open and honest and respectful and is 'trying' to get a job and hoping to stay and willing to BORROW money in order to keep the space ..... why the need to 'terminate' her over this? To me everything you've shared is something I find admirable in a client who is putting securing quality childcare for her child FIRST???

Why not just keep looking for more clients so you have a bigger 'buffer' in your income and can use that $$$ to SAVE since it will be 'extra' than and wait and see if she has too leave eventually you were supportive and have had that time to find new clients ... who knows she might get a job that allows her to keep the youngest in care PT over the mat leave and so forth and the family might refer or help you build your business in some other way?

[sunnydays]

So sorry she gave notice :( However, maybe she will find a job soon and will return to you since you kept things respectful and accomodated her on this. Good luck filling the spaces!



Well, just as I knew she would, she gave her three weeks today :( I am a little upset and I am trying not to be resentful. I'm trying to remind myself that she did the best she could and kept me in the loop the whole time. And a bit of it is my fault. I just had so much faith that things would turn out the way I needed them to that I sort of became complacent. I just really didn't want to have to deal with finding someone. I spent the past 4 months desperately looking for clients, and I had TWO weeks of reprieve. Now I'm looking again. Ugh. I hate looking. I hate waiting for THAT email. :(

[PPF123]

I started out with having too many parents wanting daycare simply because there was no one in my area. The phone wouldn't stop ringing. My daycare was full until December of last year. I had two parents lose their jobs and another child who went to a different provider because their schedules no longer matched mine. I spent most of December advertising for spots which was hard because of Christmas. I filled the two spots that were vacant in December and proceeded forward. In April of this year, I lost another 2 kids, filled the spots, and now I have to fill them again.

I started out looking for childcare for my daughter and found out that there were a lot of people that couldn't afford the daycare centers or were waiting on endless lists. I was fortunate to have some kids for 3 years and others only a few months. I've only terminated one child and that was simply because the mother showed up an hour early to drop off her kid and than phoned me at pick up time to ask if I could watch her another 2 hrs. The next day the kid showed up here with lice and it also was apparent that the child had never been reprimanded in her life. I don't like to terminate unless I absolutely have to simply because there is nothing worse than passing off the child to someone else. Don't blame the child, blame the parent.

Everytime I think about doing something else or wonder if I'm making a difference at all, I will get a visit from a former client or I will notice a behavior that I changed in the child that is currently in my care. The worst moment for parents is when they have to tell the child that they are no longer coming to my home anymore. I've had more than one call after they are out of my care where the parents phone me about it. I always explain to the child that they can always come back as a "special" visitor to see me when Mom and Dad have time.

I'd like to make more money but I wouldn't want to do this if all the children were numbers instead of people. I guess that does make me a little "crazy". :laugh: