QUICK! Is this over ratio? Friend coming over

[Sandbox Sally]

Ok so I know the ratio rules, and I know it also pertains to playdates at my home...but I am not sure about this one...

I have three dck's here today. I also have two of my own kids here too, but I know they don't count toward my ratio.

My sister in law (and BFF...lol) is coming over with her two dck's and her own son. Does her son count toward our ratios?

Together, we have five dck's and three of our own offspring. Are we legal?? :rolleyes:

Oops sorry - Ontario!

[KingstonMom]

i would say no, its fine!!
5 dcks in your home only!

[DaycareLulu]

I agree, it's still only 5 daycare kids!

[Littledragon]

I don't know...because i know the rule is 5 kids MAX no matter how many adults you have in your home, so I don't know if her kids would count towards offspring or what. HOWEVER, it's only one day. Are you licenced? If not, I wouldn't worry about the one day.

[treeholm]

I read the rules for this when I began because I provide care for my granddaughter, and didn't know if she would "count." You are fine as long as a parent is there with her own children. You have 3 dck's and she has 2, so you are fine. Your children do not count as you are there with them, and her children don't count if she is there with you. I discovered that my granddaughter doesn't count if my daughter is there, but I need to count her as one of my 5 if my daughter leaves the premises.

[Momof4]

Yes, you are within 5 unrelated children, isn't that what the DNA states? Then the others are your own children.

I go to other daycare providers houses all the time for playdates and there will be 2 or 3 of us with 10-15 children in a nice big back yard. I can't see the difference if we are in a nice fenced yard or at a big park where it's harder to keep track of your children. But each of us are within our limit of 5 unrelated children.

[sunnydays]

This is actually illegal if anyone reports you! You cannot have a total of 5 dck's combined between all of you...no matter how many adults...and back yards count as premises of your home. I would be careful with that one!



Yes, you are within 5 unrelated children, isn't that what the DNA states? Then the others are your own children.

I go to other daycare providers houses all the time for playdates and there will be 2 or 3 of us with 10-15 children in a nice big back yard. I can't see the difference if we are in a nice fenced yard or at a big park where it's harder to keep track of your children. But each of us are within our limit of 5 unrelated children.

[Momof4]

I know it kanga, I'm just pointing out the irony that it's legal at a park but not in somebody's back yard. Believe me, I noticed that she has a tall fence. And our dckids are all very well behaved so not loud.

[playfelt]

My feeling is that it is 5 daycare kids and the son doesn't count because he is there with his mother. We can have as many kids as we want in our home if they are there with their parent. Any kids not with a parent are counted against us so her daycare kids become your daycare kids in terms of counts.

That is based on interpretations given to us here in Ottawa based on reviews following that drowning and how to interpret the laws.

[Inspired by Reggio]

Ya ~ love this 'grey' area of the DNA cause it is another illogical rule that contradicts itself :rolleyes:

We never had an issue with play dates when I first opened and was with an agency ~ they use to promote the play dates in the community with other providers to minimize isolation ~ I used to have a peer over here to my house all the time my first year or my crew would go to her place .... it was not considered 'illegal' because we were not operating the daycare with more than 5 children per premise because we each had our own premise of operation ~ parents dropped off to the 'main premise', children ate and slept at the main premise and engaged in majority of the program at their 'own premise' .... we were just visiting for a short portion of the day a couple times a week to allow the kids more exposure to other children and ourselves someone to brainstorm and so forth.

However after that issue in Ottawa some agencies started 'restricting' play dates to only in PUBLIC venues ... so it is ok at the park, at the OEYC, at the library but NOT ok at another providers private property unless your number of children is less than 5 total cause in 'agency care' you have to count your own kids in the ratio ... so no more play dates for us except at 'public venues' ... and even that 'mandate' is not consistent across Ontario there are rural agencies and so forth that either did not GET the memo or have chosen to 'interpret' play dates differently and still allow them.

The logic of that makes absolutely no sense to me ~ I know for a fact that my backyard is safer than the PARK because I never have to pick up needles, used condoms, cigarette butts and other dangers in my yard but every time we go to the park the kiddies have to 'sit at the edge' while we do a safety inspection! Not to mention that lack of adequate supervision of children occurs in public just as much as in private ~ I have seen people loose children at the park, library, have seen kids get 'hurt' at the OEYC playgroups and so forth.

Just a silly rule that further isolates providers and results in less people in some communities wanting to enter this field and creating a lack of services for parents!

[sunnydays]

I agree that the rule is silly...makes no sense that you can take them kids to the park where there may be 50 other kids, but you can't invite another daycare over to your fenced and child-proofed yard. However, I take no chances when it comes to breaking rules as I do not want to risk having my daycare shut down :(

[Inspired by Reggio]

Agreed Kangaroomama ~ have to weigh if the benefit is worth the risk when delving into 'grey areas' .... I do not t hink they would not shut you down for a play date likely just 'warn you' the first time if you were reported by someone ... my concern is not the Ministry of Education but my 'insurance' not covering play dates between two providers due to the grey area with this being 'legal or illegal' depending on interpretation of the DNA.

[Michelyn]

Here's the difference.

Your insurance is valid at a public venue. It is not at a private home where there are more than 5 dcks - why? Because more than 5 dcks in a private home becomes an illegal non-licenced centre. Daycare centres are licensed to have higher ratios. It is the building, not the providers that count.

I personally agree with this rule. I have seen too many groups of providers standing around drinking coffee and chit-chatting while the children run around relatively unsupervised. I understand that not every provider does this, but enough do that it's created a serious threat to our children's safety.

[Momof4]

Here's the difference.

Your insurance is valid at a public venue. It is not at a private home where there are more than 5 dcks - why? Because more than 5 dcks in a private home becomes an illegal non-licenced centre. Daycare centres are licensed to have higher ratios. It is the building, not the providers that count.

I personally agree with this rule. I have seen too many groups of providers standing around drinking coffee and chit-chatting while the children run around relatively unsupervised. I understand that not every provider does this, but enough do that it's created a serious threat to our children's safety.

This is a really old thread but I thought about the rules and regulations and now only meet other providers at parks. I would like to point out though that I stopped seeing one provider at a park because she was one of the providers you described, sitting on her butt and not minding her children's safety. I got tired of that but I know what you are talking about. My friend and I who meet at the park now are constantly counting our dckids and are always on our feet and on alert. That's the kind of provider I am all the time!

[momofnerds]

last year I took my group to the park, in the other town (we drove there) well the summer camp ended up coming. Well all the teenagers stood around and talked and texted while all the kids ran rampid. They were mean and lots of accidents happened. I had enough and took my group home.

I would rather go to another providers home where we can saftely watch the kids instead of a park where no one supervises the kids

[momofnerds]

my insurance covers 5 daycare kids, and anyone else is covered under my 2 million liability, so doesn't that mean you can have others at your house. (oh I have parents who can't walk up the 2 steps into my house thats why I have extra liablity)

[playfelt]

All children not with a parent count as your daycare children if they are at your house. That means if they total more than 5 in Ontario then you are considered to be operating an illegal over-ration daycare and would require a daycare centre license for that many kids.

It is one of those things where there is no way to find a happy medium without potential for rules to be broken so they made it too rigid.

The annoying thing is you can have as many moms on mat leave over as you want with all their babies and older kids but not one mom and her child and a daycare child.