Ok! I REALLY need some advice

[godsgirl]

Hey guys! Ok! I need some advice as I am REALLY starting to question my 'gifting' with kids. I have been open for only 2 months and I am at my whits end. Here are my questions....
1) I have a 4 yr old who refuses to listen. I ask him to stop something and he says ok and then 2 seconds later does it again (jumping on the couch, throwing things, running through the house, yelling, etc). I keep putting him on time out, talk to him nicely, sternly, tried a reward system and have talked to his mom numerous times but still no avail. His mom seems really on board and disciplines him the moment that I talk her and in the mornings she reminds him about what they talked about but still nothing. I have a 5 yr old with us also and she is really good but when they get together they just wind each other up and adds to all my frustrations with him. I feel like I ride him ALL the time but I have no idea what else to do. Any suggestions. Maybe turning my 'stop that, don't do this, we don't do that' to something more positive but I don't know how else to say it.

2) During naps I have a 2 yr old who sleeps on my bed and the 4 & 5 yr old on the couches in the living room. The mom asked me to limit the 5 yr old naps as she is not sleeping at night but because my house is so small she distracts the 4 yr old when she's puttering around in the kitchen. I have asked her to lay on the couch until the 4 yr old falls asleep and if she is not tired by that time then she can get up and play in the kitchen quietly. However, the 2 yr old has now started to go through all my dirty clothes, pull clothes out of the drawers, and open/shut the door constantly for the last 3 days. It has gotten to the point where I have to sit on the edge of the bed with my hand on his back to get him to stop moving. Meanwhile the 4&5 yr old aren't resting because I'm not sitting in the living room monitoring them to make sure that they aren't bothering each other. Today I got so fed up that I pulled the 2 yr old out of my room and laid him on the living room floor (with my hand on his back) so I could monitor all of them. After an hour they have ALL fell asleep (the one who didn't have to sleep went first - go figure). Yesterday nobody napped, including my 16 month because none of them would settle. Any ideas as to what to do with the 2 yr old and should I just ride this out for the next 2 weeks until the others go to school? Seriously, my husband came home yesterday and I just started bawling because they were so out of control.

3) Once school starts 3 of my kids will be going to school (:D) and I will only have a 2 yr old FT and a PT 10 month old and then the 3 kids before and after school (plus my 1 yr old). Please tell me it gets better when they start school. Any suggestions on how to keep the chaos to a minimum especially when they arrive after school?

Thank God it's Friday! I have a babysitter so my husband and I can go out on a date :D
Sorry this is so long. Thank you so much for your help!

[DCP_But_Momma_1st]

1) I haven't had one who doesn't listen at all, especially at that age. I would "want" to terminate. No real advice.

2) I would put the two year old in a playpen with the 4 year old and put the 5 year old on your bed with a movie on.

3) have snacks ready to go for when school is over. Also either outside time after snacks or something to keep them busy.

It gets easier the longer you do it I promise you :)

[treeholm]

Hi there,
I'm only starting in September, so I can't give you any advice really, but I did want to send a hug. I'm sure this is making you crazy.
As the grandmother of a 3.5 year old, and a Mom who raised three children (including two very busy boys) I do think that the secret with the 4-year old is to find something that motivates him. Rewards only work when the child feels that the value of the reward exceeds whatever value his current inappropriate behaviour has. I don't doubt that some of these wise and experienced women will have more tangible advice for you.
Diane

[jazmic]

Definitely get a play pen for the 2 year old. That would solve that problem. Can you organize a quiet activity that will occupy the 5 year old in one spot while the 4 year old tries to fall asleep? I don't know about the layout of your house, but a craft of some sort at a table out of sight from the couch might help.

[kidlove]

OK! first off, your 4 yr old sounds like a little case of "hyper-active" disorder. Before you judge, I am not one to make excuses for any child with a label or "coined" special behavior. However, I have a son w/ hyper-active/ADHD (diagnosis). and a boy in my care who is clearly hyper-active. LOTS of kids fall under these categories (especially boys) There is nothing "wrong" with them, they just have a higher level of energy, and a lower level of control. IF this little guy is "hyper-active" you can correct his behavior and he will turn and do the same thing the very next minute. He cant help it!!!! doesnt mean you let him get away with it, BUT you have to understand he cant ALWAYS help the choices he makes. SOOOOO, rather than alot of negative correction, just take lots of deep breathes and have lots of "one-on-one" talks with him regarding what he chose to do and why its not ok. It will sink in ...eventually. Children like this are also VERY impulsive, they will respond to people and in situations in a "do first, think last" way. Takes a ton more re-direction and patience. The way I felt after realizing my son was "labeled":rolleyes: was "releived" I had questioned if I was a bad parent, not doing things right? not disciplining enough? disciplining too much? I learned, I WAS making mistakes as a parent, but my mistakes were just like any others, My mistakes were not to blame for his behavior! thats just the boy he is. It REALLY helped me to cope better tho for some reason, once you know what the problem is, it's easier to deal with. IMO. :) (this is not to say: this child may be getting away with too much at home) Just be careful if it is hyperactive or ADHD...unfortunately what also comes with it is "lower self esteem" the child really beats up on themselves, partly because they feel like they never do anything right. (getting in trouble so much) and partly because they are REALLY good manipulators. :) not sure if that helps your little one or not?????

[apples and bananas]

Yes, play pen for the 2 year old. If he's getting out of bed he's not ready for a big boy bed yet. Then again, if he's 2, he may be able to climb out of the playpen. So, if that's the case, invest in a cot and put him where you can see him. None of the daycare kids sleep on my beds! I've known people that have had daycare kids bring lice into the house... the thought of that possibly being where I sleep or my kids sleep is too close for comfort for me.

This is the reason I don't like to take 5 year olds. No quiet time. So, yes, this will get easier when they go to school. Grin and bear. Set them up all comfy in front of a movie for a couple of weeks until schools back. I don' tknow if you'll win that one.

[Lou]

2 yrs old- Play pen! Kids rest in play pens here until they are 3, then move to cots.

4 yrs - a written warning to the parents that if behaviour does not improve by next Wednesday, a termination notice will be issued. I know that seems harsh but at 4 yrs old he is old enough to listen and follow direction, and it isn't worth the stress! If you are looking for more positive approaces to guidance some "lingo" I use are: "Feet on the floor" "Couches are for sitting on" "Walking feet please!" "Gentle hands" "Quiet voice please- can you show me what a quiet voice sounds like?" "Toys are for playing with, not throwing" "You are showing me that these toys need to be put away because you are throwing them, instead of playing with them like a big boy"

5yrs- Either remove her entirely from the room and put on a movie, OR tell Mom that you use the Day Nurseries Act guidelines which regulates that children in care need to rest for 1 hour before they are permitted to get up. If she falls asleep, it means she's tired and needs rest. Also remind Mom that this is your lunch hour as well to recharge your batteries, clean and prepare for the afternoon.

[kidlove]

after all that, i continue to read your post and realize: it really could also just be a case of being "tested" ALL kids especially the STINKERS! :) will test you to see how far they can push. DON'T let them push AT ALL. put your foot down fast, dont be sweet because they are new, or you think they might not be old enough to fully understand, all kids by the age of 2 are smart enough to take direct orders and understand right from wrong. they jump on your couch, you tell them to sit, "we don't jump on miss ______'s furniture"...they do it again, you grab them quickly and remove them from the couch, get down to their level and say clearly, "I asked you not to jump on my couch, you can't listen so sit on the floor please". Do it as much as you have to until it sinks in...YOU ARE THE BOSS, NOT THEM!!!! I do this, I am firm on the kids, i have solid rules and they love me anyway...they just know when "I mean business!"

[kidlove]

ok just finished the rest....ha ha , can you tell where my son gets his hyperactivity from, I can only focus on one thing at a time. after reading the rest I have come to the BIG issue......you dont seem to have full control yet!!!!!! you need to take it back from these kids. :) dont mean to smite you, you are doing a great job, but in this job if you are not "tough" you have chaos. alot of it seems to be created by the size of your home and your choices, of sleep arangements and other stuff. You NEED a crib for the little one, this child is obviously not sensing your authority plus (the child is 2) this kid needs to be places in a crib and told to "go to sleep" if the child moves around, gets up, or tries to climb out, you need to be "on gaurd" catch them in the act, and correct it quick and firm. "this is not ok...go to sleep". use your mad face if you have to until these kids know you mean business. Children will push if they know there is room! and they know how you feel, if you are upset, some kids will push harder. dont let them run you girl!!!!! this a tough world, daycare. it will chew you up and spit you out. (sarcasm) good luck keep things posted!!!!!:thumbsup :

[Momof4]

1)Yes, but when you discipline do you use an angry voice and angry face? Because that's one of my pet peeves. How can children know when you really mean it if you ask scold them but use a nicey-nice voice. I see so many parents doing that and it isn't going to work. Also mention this to the parents.

2) I don't let anybody dictate my rules, including naptime. They are all required to lay down QUIETLY for my entire naptime whether they are sleeping or not.

3) I will not have school aged children in my daycare because to me school = attitude.

Those are my 3 cents!

[fruitloop]

1)Yes, but when you discipline do you use an angry voice and angry face? Because that's one of my pet peeves. How can children know when you really mean it if you ask scold them but use a nicey-nice voice. I see so many parents doing that and it isn't going to work. Also mention this to the parents.

2) I don't let anybody dictate my rules, including naptime. They are all required to lay down QUIETLY for my entire naptime whether they are sleeping or not.

3) I will not have school aged children in my daycare because to me school = attitude.

Those are my 3 cents!

Exactly this! I also would get the kids off your family beds. Put them on the floor on a sleep mat or cot. No d/c kids sleep on any of my family member beds...PERIOD! It they decided to pee or poop all over it, your whole bed/bedding is ruined. Put the 2 year old in a playpen or put on your "angry, I mean business...DO NOT GET OFF YOUR MAT" face. Kids will walk all over you if you don't take control and show them you are the alpha.

...and for #3...I'm considering taking in 1 school kid but haven't decided yet if I want to do that...he would be a special circumstance but normally...no school-age kids here.

[Crayola kiddies]

I too would put the two year old in a play pen and if she climbed out I would go in with my most angry face and put her back in and say "no climbing out" she'll get the picture pretty quick. I have actually had to do this back in Jan with a 22 month old and it worked like a charm .. He's one of my best sleepers now. The other two would be on cots or sleep mats and told not to move till you say so. ..... As for the not listening .....time outs and keep making them longer and be thankful school is in two weeks. I would let the parents know about the behavior and if it continues once school starts term them .... Not worth the stress. You definitely need to take control back as another poster said .... Your days sound like total chaos .... Make a schedule set some rules and get the kids napping in the afternoon and your days will be smoother and you will be happier...... Good luck

[daycarewhisperer]

It sounds like you have too many children in too small amount of space with too little experience. I would reccomend you scale down your child care to your children and one child and then work your way up. If you are having to use family beds and your couch for nap time it's a good indication you just don't have the space for the kids. When you are off away into an area dealing with one child's behavior and the others remain away from you without direct proximal supervision you have too many kids.

Home child care is HARD done well. It's a learned skill that only comes with time. It's very hard to do it well without appropriate space. The space you need for your own children is way way way less than what you need to care for "other" people's chldren from multiple families in mixed aged groups. Your liability is SO much higher with other peoples kids. You can't make mistakes with them like you can with your own. That's why you need to start really small and work your way up over time. Even if your family needs the income you must remember that making an error in supervision or having an injury will cost you far more than an annual salary on a kid.

Where I live the description of what is happening at your house with the current kids would land me in a whole lot of problems. We are required to have "careful supervision at ALL times" so we wouldn't be able to allow a child into a family bedroom without direct supervision and that room would have to be fully safety proofed for children. We wouldn't be allowed to carry more kids than what we could visually supervise while they were up.

Not to be harsh friend....... please don't read it that way. I am trying to help you see that you have way too much on your plate and am trying to get you to sit back and re-evaluate.

[Momof4]

Oh dear, I disagree with the previous poster, godsgirl. I'm sure you can get everything under control if you just tackle one problem at a time and put all your efforts into teaching the children that you WILL NOT cave and they MUST follow your rules.

Sometimes it takes some experimenting. I know I've moved the children around in my 2 sleeprooms to get the best sleepers together and the louder ones in the next room. It doesn't help much, but a little. And I'm on them from day 1 in my daycare to teach them that I will put them in timeout over and over until they learn my rules.

You can do it. Everywhere I go people comment on the well behaved group of children that are with me and I tell them it took a lot of hard work on my part but yes, they are great children. Organize better at things like food prepping and activity prepping the evening before so you can give 100% of your time to getting the children under control during the day.

[godsgirl]

Yeah, I think you guys are right about the playpen. The licensing place and his mom said that he would be fine on my bed (which he was up until last week) but I think enough is enough. As for the 5 yr old. She is pretty good about being quiet when she can't sleep and will play quietly, do a puzzle, color, or sometime I put a movie on my lap top for her but these last 2 weeks the 4 yr old is so distracted with any noise that I decided to just have everyone lie down to simplify things (so much for that). The crappy thing is that the kitchen and dining room are directly across from the living room so any movement and the 4 yr old is always popping up.

[godsgirl]

Up until 2 weeks ago they have been pretty good (the 4 year old has always given me a run for my money - when it's just him he is so good though). As for the 2 yr old, he can't talk yet so I have no idea if he understands what I'm saying as he just stares blankly at me with this grin on his face. But I think I'll be moving him to the living room from now on. I think you are right kidlove 'that I may not have full control yet'. The 2 & 5 yr old are brother and sister and they came from a daycare and the 4 yr old came from a previous day home that he was at for 3 years. So it's all probably a bit of adjustment for them too in regards to them getting used to new place, new rules, finding out their boundaries, etc. It's normally during free play when the 4 yr old goes crazy so I think I just need to limit it and when he starts to get hyper with the 5 yr old then I need to redirect them to something else or separate them. I have a 1000 sq ft one level house (basement is partially finished but we don't go down there). The day home space is kind of in a 'L' shape with an open kitchen and dining room which are connected and the living room off of the kitchen with our 2 bedrooms down the hall. The kids normally bounce between the living room and kitchen and play at the kitchen table in the dining room. Thank you all so much for your help. I am learning so much from you guys!!!

[dodge__driver11]

I am full and I presently have 5 kids in my care-- I put the loudest most unruley guys together, in my sons room and the great nappers out in the living room on the floor hasn't failed me yet. I also start the slow eaters about 15 mins before everyone else then then they all finish at the same time. (For the most part)

You just have to iron this stuff out... And I live in APT style condo, and my program is awesome if I do say so myself! :)

You can do it :)

[kidlove]

You know Godsgirl; alot of people are suggesting cots for the kids, not sure if they are in the beds because maybe you cant afford cots yet, due to your "newness" :) but I dont use cots, I just made small sleeping bags from old comforters sewn in half, work like a charm and you can pick them up at resale stores or garage sales, cheap and easy and the kids love them. The kids always pick their "favorite pattern" I also have some LARGE pillows they use for nap time, they are covered with all dif kinds of removable fleece covers. perfect for the germs and drool!!! :)

[Crayola kiddies]

I have a couPle of naps mats I got at walmart ..... the pillow is attached and so is the lightweight blanket and it rolls up and secured with Velcro for storing ..... I have never had a complaint from any of the kids.

[Littledragon]

Well...these are my suggestions:

1)For the 4 year old, I would explain to him that the behaviour is unacceptable and that if he continues, he will no longer have privilages to certain things (jumping on the couch - no longer allowed on the furniture). He seems like the type of kid who needs constant supervision and needs to be kept busy or he gets into stuff. I would constantly be suggesting things - let's colour, why don't you make me something in the kitchen, make me a castle, why don't you and the [5 year old] *name something productive*. Sooner or later, he will start to catch on. However, if he continues even when he is given something to do, then I would explain that his privaliges at the daycare are going to be taken away. He must be with you at all times: wherever you go. He will not be allowed to play with the toys or the other children. I have a two year old is who REALLY rough and I have explained to him that if his behaviour continues, he will no longer be allowed to come over and play with us.

2) The two year old needs a playpen. I know a lot of people say that 2 years old is too old for a playpen but my two year old HAS to be in a playpen because he gets into EVERYTHING. He even climbs out of his playpen and plays in my closet. I put a video monitor (you could use a webcam) in his room and whenever he makes moves like he's going to climb out, I go over the speaker and tell him no. The other day, when I found him in my closet, I pulled him out and explained to him that he cannot do that. He could get hurt. He MUST stay in his playpen until I come get him. He is now ALLOWED to get out until I come get him. I told him he was on a time out. I got all the other kids and brought them down for snack then I went upstairs and repeated what I had just told him and told him to say he was sorry to me. The next day, when he woke up, he didn't even make a peep. As for the 5 year old, I would still be expecting her to have quiet time. You need that time for yourself. Give her some books, seperate her from the 4 year old (do you have somewhere else you could put the 4 year old?) and explain to her that she must stay on the couch until quiet time is over. She can colour, read - whatever, but she is not to leave the couch.

3)I don't have older kids for this reason - I don't have the patience to run after them like that. I like the younger ones cause I can mold them into how I want them to behave. Once they're back in school, your days will be MUCH less hectic and so much quieter. The kids will probably come back a little hyper because they've been cooped up all day but that's when you get everyone ready and play outside till their parents come. (After snack). Outside is always the answer for my crew. When they're bouncing off the walls, I let them outside.

Sorry you're having such a rough go! Older kids are SUCH a handful! It'll get better soon. Start being more firm, make sure they're taking you seriously and start seriously disciplining the 4 year old. He obviously needs more guidance.

Oh and ps: these are just my opnions, but this is what I would do if I were in your situation :)

[sunnydays]

I really don't think the problem is that you have too many kids or too little space. I know people make it work in spaces such as yours. You just have to figure out how to best organize naptimes and get the discipline under control. It takes time and it isn't easy, but I am sure you can do it! I agree with the others who ahve said to put the 2 year old either in a playpen or on a mat on the floor. I never have daycare kids on family beds. In fact, as a parent, I would be a bit creeped out if a daycare provider wanted my child to sleep on her bed...I don't know...maybe I am wierd that way! Good luck and believe in yourself!

[godsgirl]

Thanks guys!! Today is going SO much better! When they all came in this morning I had a very serious talk with them and reminded them of what I expected from them. The 4 yr old is still acting up a bit but not as much and I have changed the way that I talk to him. For example: He threw I toy and I put him in timeout and afterwards I told him that this is my house, my rules and if he can't follow them then he will lose his privileges with the toys that he can't respect. His whole demeanor was different this time.

I told both the 4 and 5 yr old that they need to lay on the couches and not move (and if the 5 yr old wasn't tired after the 4 yr old fell asleep then she could play quietly in the kitchen - they both passed out in 10 minutes :)).

The 2 yr old kept getting up but I just sat with him for a few minutes to get him to stop wiggling and he fell asleep. I too have the heebie jeebies about having dck's in our bed too because if they make a mess then it's our bed that they are messing in. I just had no where to put him so he couldn't be distracted by the older ones (and I didn't want him in my sons room because that is his space that he doesn't have to share). Unfortunately, I have to stick it out until school starts and then I can move him into the living room. The lady who does the home visits that I'm licensed through said that she will bring me a playpen and a sleep mat this week so we can try both and see what works best for him. Our bedroom is quite small so I'm hoping the playpen she brings will fit until school starts (we don't even have our bed on a frame because our 'master bedroom' is that small - winter project will hopefully put our bedroom in the basement and free up a room on the main floor).

YAY for progress!! And for you ladies!!

[sunnydays]

So glad to hear things are looking up! Sometimes it is just a matter of rethinking things and having a plan in place before the kids arrive and then sticking to it :)

[fruitloop]

If you check out FB swap groups for your area or even kijiji, you can find some good deals on playpens. It will then be a write off for you since it's used for daycare. I own 5 playpens and none of my own kids use them since they have been out of them for well over 4 years. They were all bought for daycare...along with my cots. You could also ask the parents to supply 1.

[playfelt]

And there is an issue with the agencies - if they are the ones that were placing the child into your home the playpen or mat should have been in your home the day before the child started not weeks later. You paid for the service and they didn't provide it. A 2 year old should be able to sleep on a mat in the same room as the older kids and it would be better to start him where you want him to sleep even if it takes longer for him to fall asleep.

[fruitloop]

I agree with Playfelt!