Crying

[Valerie]

Hi, I am new here and have just recently opened a daycare. I have two kids of my own 1yr old and almost 3yr old. I currently have two full-time kids in my care 15mths. and almost 3yr old (3 in May).
My question is this, the 3yr old cries almost all the time and I don't know what to do. I have tried talking and comforting him but he wants nothing to do with anyone. My son and him however do have fun but that's when they have fun. He cries when he gets dropped off; tired; kid takes a toy that he wants; any kind of change; and most of the time I can't figure out why he just starts crying. He is happy however when he gets picked up and always tells his parents what a great day he had. It is starting to disturb the other kids, the 15mth old and my younger son (who are usually very happy babies) sometimes cry when they see him doing it. I have debated on letting him go but he is the age I am looking for and it is very hard to find daycare kids in my area especially when you are just starting out. :( He has been in my care for almost 8wks.
His dad is the one who took parental leave and has been home with dad up until now. I do find his behavior a bit better on days my husband is off/ when he is here.
Not that it matters, but he is also not potty trained and has no interest.
He has an older sister, 5yrs old, not in my care as she goes to school and they have care through her school. The mom always says Thank You when dropping him off, but the dad is quite often 10-15mins. late picking him up. I have addressed this issue so hopefully that changes! He is in my care from 8am-5:15pm at $35 per day. I normally charge $40 but had lowered it because he is my eldest sons age and that is the reason I am doing this, for my kids. :D However I am not sure if the stress is worth $35 anymore!, PLEASE HELP. Thank you so much.

[playfelt]

Hi Valerie, I am in Orleans too (near St. Peter's High school area). There is a very good chance that the child learned very early on that dad could not stand the crying either and that it got him what he wanted. Your job then will be to teach him that that doesn't work in the real world. He is old enough for you to talk to him about it but it also sounds like he wasn't pushed to mature at home either so pretend you are talking to a child a bit younger than he really is.

With tears in a child this age I tend to just call him on it such as telling him words is the only acceptable response or method for requesting something. Here when kids either come in with tears like that or develop them during the day they are required to take the tears to the table and to sit there till they are done and then join us again. Boring is a big motivator and it gives the child control over stopping and rejoing as compared to a time out that has a certain limit set to it. Ideally after a few trips to sit out you can move to reminders and warnings of t"urn off the tears or go sit" which is exactly as I would say it and in a firm voice. The tears might work at home but they don't here. Good news is kids will learn what they can get away with and go with it.

You are saying dad took paternity leave and child is now three so has he been home with dad for 3 years and no if any stimulation - did dad do playgroup or park or museums with him. He may just be totally out of his element and you will need to consider him alongside the 12-15 month olds in terms of coping skills.

It does make for very long days for you. Considering the older child is in school if you can hang in there another month or so and see if there is any improvement you could then use the end of the school year to cut your loses and interview again for September.

Any chance you live in the Forest Valley School area - I have a JK child to pass on to someone in that area.

[Valerie]

Thank you for your response. Unfortunately I have tried having him sit on the couch till he is ready to join us. We go on to do arts and crafts/ puzzles/ other daily activities. It doesn't seem to phase him. He has always been home with dad up till now. I don't think he did playgroups with him or anything as he does not seem very socialized.

Sorry, I live in the Convent Glen area. I do have spots available though, if you hear anyone in my area please pass my info. along. Thanks. :D

[fruitloop]

Ignore it! He is using it as a form of control and if you acknowledge the behaviour, you are giving him the control. You either have to put him in a "crying" spot away from where it is fun and he can't see what's going on or just completely ignore him going on with your day not giving him an ounce of attention for the behaviour. It will eventually stop as he realizes that what works at home, doesn't work with you. Trust me...it works. It may take a bit but he will get it. He is totally old enough to understand and he KNOWS what he is doing.

[playfelt]

If he has no social skills then you will need to plan a lot of adult run activities. Playing games with them and setting him up to do an activity. Using the table where there are things to do but the chair assures that no one else can take the activity might help him relax a bit. If he has not been socialized at all then it will take a lot longer than 8 weeks for him to settle in. Hopefully when summer comes and you are outside more that might help. If he has not been allowed to grow up you might find that he actually does better doing an activity with the 15m old than the other 3 yr old.

[mom-in-alberta]

I agree with the other providers, for sure. Don't really have anything to add, except to say that he is absolutely old enough to understand when you rationalize that crying is NOT an acceptable method of communication for all feelings. It sounds like you are doing all right in not giving the behaviour attention, I would keep that up. Just add in the consistent reminder to "use your words, please" etc like the others said.
8 weeks seems like a long time, but for a child who has not been in the care of anyone except a parent, it is not!! He is still clearly adjusting to a new environment. If you feel like you can stick it out, I would. Although I admit, I am surprised you are giving a discount because of his age being compatible with your child. I don't think it's something I would do! ;) I would absolutely be firm on pick-up being on time, too. That is a loooong day, not only for you, but for the kids too!!
Good luck

[Play and Learn]

but the dad is quite often 10-15mins. late picking him up. I have addressed this issue so hopefully that changes! He is in my care from 8am-5:15pm at $35 per day. I normally charge $40 but had lowered it because he is my eldest sons age and that is the reason I am doing this, for my kids. :D However I am not sure if the stress is worth $35 anymore!, PLEASE HELP.

Agree with above posters about the behaviour.

For the discount - I would NEVER give ANYONE a discount - I don't care who you are!!! I would also charge the dad a late fee, as I would assume it's eating into your family time.
For myself, every minute you're late for pick-up, and after the 5 minute grace period, I charge $1/minute. After 20 minutes, it goes up to $5/minute. It's also by my clock which is set to the Weather Network. It's all in my manual.

[playfelt]

Here in Orleans rates vary but there are many caregivers that are charging $35 a day as their regular rate. I am raising my rates for new families coming in but right now my rate for all children in care is $35 with one at $38 that I raised last year and new families will be at $40 which is becoming the new norm.

On the dad being late, find out what is making him late and how much effort he is making to get there on time. It may be that he underestimated how much rush hour traffic had changed or his bus route and transfers had changed whichever method he uses since he worked before. IF it is going to be consistently late then you could negotiate a change to the contract and up the price per day for the extra hours.

I understand why you gave the discount. Getting an older child into care is very unusual these days and it was important for your own child to have a playmate of peer age., We do what we have to do in this business. Taking a hard line on some issues can prevent us from reaching our goals too. All of my 2-3 year olds are paying $35 a day because that was the going rate when they started so you are still in line with rates.

Hopefully as the days go on you will be able to talk with the parents and in a nice way be able to get them to see that the child's behaviour is a result of home and not daycare.

[daycare woman]

Playfelt you said it! We seem to get blamed for it all! My daycare kids are 2 yr old angels! I'm not kidding, very rarely do I have to do any t/outs. The phrase is "where did he learn that?" Not here thanks. I've been thinking about this issue just this week, I know these kids get away with murder at home, but not at daycare!
I agree with everyone you need to use your "I mean business voice with him" All I have to do is look at my kids and they stop doing or fix their behaviour. But you MUST put him in a quiet place away from everyone even if he snivels, or starts to tear up, put him in the quiet spot asap. Any and all crying quiet spot asap, no talking just take him and talk when he stops crying. This should work after 2 or 3 days I would think, if not then there is another issue you may have to look for. Daycare training says to write down just for yourself when he starts to cry specifically, the time, whats going on around him, noisy, whatever and maybe you an come up with a solution your just over looking. Could it be separation anxiety from daddy?