Is Discipline Non-Existent These Days?

[Judy Trickett]

I am putting this poll in this section as "caring for children" also involves discipline from time to time.

I have found, over the last ten years of providing daycare, that the parents are disciplining less and less and less and it is making MY job harder. It used to be that when a child misbehaved in care the parents also gave them the stink eye. It was not unusual, when I first started providing care, for a kid to knock on my door after hours with a bouquet of flowers or an "I'm sorry" card for being a little bugger during the day. But now it seems that no one disciplines their kids anymore and God help us if WE discipline their kids and they know about it. :rolleyes:

So, my question to you is in the poll. I am curious what others think.

[playfelt]

Parents are part brainwashed against it and part afraid to discipline. There is so much in the media about child's self-esteem and hurting these delicate little blossoms of trouble that parents don't know which "expert" to follow.

There are no lines in the sand so to speak which is the biggest problem. What is wrong for one family is ok for another or is partly ok for another so no one knows exactly where the limits are. One of the reasons kids test us on every issue to be sure our rules really are the rules they need to follow at our house.

[Wonderwiper]

I know so many people who simply let their children rule the roost. I have a friend who's 7 year old child hits and kicks her and she never even says a word. Other friends children run around my house like maniacs when they visit. I always find myself saying " at my house we do not behave like that, we keep our hands to ourselves, say please and thank you, etc."!! These kids are not even in my daycare....why is it my job to tell them how to behave and teach them manners?

[crafty]

I doN,t know if there is any less discipline because I can't compare it but I tend to I agree with playfelt. I find that if we read just a bit about child development EVERYTHING our parents did was wrong... well according to the professional. I was spanked, forced to finish my plate, rewarded with cookies, told NOT to act like a baby, sent to my room. But if you read anything all that was not good to do... Turned out fine by the way. So they tell us HOW BAD it is for the child so maybe yes parents are AFRAID to discipline because it causes harm to their child. Plus it feels like everyone is watching and judging, so maybe it is intimidating to discipline a child in public, better do nothing. Whatever is written in a magasine on how to do is not SHOWN in real life to the parents so we really do not know how to apply it and have they been in my house ? How do they know WHY my child is acting up and if I can't apply what I have learned from my parents and I don't know how to apply what I've seen in a magazine ... what will I do ?

[Inspired by Reggio]

Life tends to be a pendulum where we swing from one extreme to the other in just about everything including 'discipline' instead of finding the balance that is there in between ... we went from it being common practice in the 50's to literally 'whip children into shape' to the hippy era in the 60's of lets 'make love not war ~ let the children be' and than back and forth over the decades trying to find the 'balance' between those two extremes so to speak.

If I answered this question based on clients over the past 5 years in my care I would state that parents are disciplining and children are better behaved because since leaving 'centre care' this has been my experience over all ~ in 5 years and 18 families through my program (my first few years I had A LOT of part time clients) only ONE client had children with behaviour challenges the rest of them were responsive attentive parents with strong clear expectations for their children and had well behaved children as a result ~ so 1 in 18 is a pretty good that would mean based on that research that on average 95% of parents ARE disciplining and only 5% are not .... however I know that is not the reality in society!

So if I based my answer on what I experienced in CENTRE care my last 7 years or what I see in the MALLS than I would vote that 'no parents are not and children are out of control as a result' .... on average out and about I see at least half a dozen 'wild out of control children' every time I leave my home with parents who are standing there oblivious on how to handle it :(

Reflecting back on my career and the 'changes' in families 20 years it was 'rare' for daycare classrooms to be experiencing mental health issues ~ I can tell you that the behaviour in the daycares when I was a new ECE was limited to 'age appropriate' challenges such as the toddlers biting and preschoolers being picky eaters so forth .... there was little true 'aggression' in a program ~ our programs were CALM and the children were CALM if you had a 'special needs' child in your classroom it was a child with physical disabilities not mental health issues .... in 2000 I changed jobs and went to work in a centre that served a wider 'range' of socio economical clients and WOW what a difference in experiences ~ I lasted 2 years and had to take a year off cause I burnt out dealing with the behaviour ~ angry 3 year old children who turned on a dime from being sweet kid to one who ripped the sink off the wall in the bathroom - it was just shocking! Now a days it is not uncommon to have at least THREE children in a group of SIXTEEN in preschool classroom with 'identified' mental health issues and than you have additional ones who are 'challenged' but do not have a diagnosis ... that is a HUGE increase in children who are suffering with anger issues, OCD, depression, ADHD and so forth ~ we have to ask ourselves WHY cause these are not things that are born out of differences of 'discipline' they are actual mental health issues with the wiring of the brain?????

Centre based programs are SCARY now a days ~it is not uncommon to come across children who are so very ANGRY with the world they are heaving tables across the room ~ honestly in such a short time on this planet how can you be filled with that kid of rage ~ and as a child your biggest worries should be 'shall I paint or play with blocks today' .... but these children have been exposed to horrors that would make your toes curl and some of them suffer from PTSD from their short time on this planet from the stress in their home lives!

Think about the bigger picture here for a moment as possible causes to this increase in 'behaviour' we see in our programs and the indifference in parents .... 20 years ago the average work day was 7.5 hours with a 30 minute lunch break so 7.5 hours or if you were 'unlucky' you worked an 8 hour day and got an hour for lunch but now it is common for most people to be working 9 plus hours a day as the 'norm' .... people who work in factories are working 12 hour shifts and in addition to longer work hours you can add in longer commute times due to all the traffic on the roads and people having to go outside their communities for work ~ parents are exhausted balancing work and home life and just have less time to parent their children.

Now put work aside ~ back than the average child attended maybe ONE extra curricular activity a year and now if you listen to parents they are balancing 2-3 a season because studies show that children 'engaged' in the early years thrive later in life and well the dance studios and soccer and music companies all JUMP on research tidbits like that and play to parents wanting the 'best' for their kids .... while the poor parents who do not actually READ the research but just the tidbits that the media chooses to highlight do not realize that the study is actually talking about HIGH RISK children being engaged in the early years thrive better later in life it is not talking about the average child with two responsive adults in their life ... children do not need to be 'engaged in organized scheduled planned out the wazoo activities' they need access to responsive caring adults who encourage and set the stage for them to thrive through a safe environment of PLAY!

Than add on top of that all the 'time constraints' on families you definitely no longer know what advice to TRUST out there because big business has their hand in just about EVERYTHING and so research findings are suspect depending on who 'funded' it ... cause if a study toting that children need to be engaged in more extra curricular activities is funded by a business that SELLS extra curricular activities well seriously is that 'unbiased' .... any research findings have to be taken with a grain of salt for sure and so often we contradict each other cause well life is not always 'right or wrong' but a balance!

20 plus years ago look at the 'lifestyle' of the average household and how often they might have eaten out, what was going on in our food sources back in the 80's opposed to NOW and so forth!

IMO there is way more going on in our society than varied discipline approaches .... IMO most parents today just feel 'defeated' and lack the skills and resources to deal with the demands placed on families today .... there is all this pressure to keep up with the Jones between having the ideal career and 'material things' and than instead of giving birth to a little 'angel' the children we are bringing into this world these days are coming with mental health and other 'health' issues because from before they are born their little bodies are being pumped full of artificial hormones in our milk and meat supplies, genetically modified foods line our shelfs, we pump them full of more and more 'chemicals' in the guise of vaccines for chicken pox and ear infections and other things that do we really NEED ... having a healthy normal child is exhausting and stressful enough having a 'high maintenance' child can be devastating to parents who do not have the skills to deal with that!

Our entire society is SLEEP DEPRIVED ... not only do adults not get enough sleep to thrive but their children are no longer sleeping properly and therefore are growing up WILD with emotion and the inability to regulate it.

I guess my point is that I think we have way more issues to deal with children today than just 'discipline' ... I argue that if we fixed some of the other issues we would need less discipline in the first place because children would come into the world well nourished, with healthy sleep patterns and more 'resilience' to learning through positive role modeling from the caring responsive adults in their life ;)

[Momof4]

I have a simple common sense answer: My own children are in their 20's and 30's now and they are the age of most of the new parents we have to deal with on a daily basis. Now when I remember back to when they were small and I was disciplining them it was the start of the 'Kid's Help Line' that was taught at schools and how parents should never spank them because that was abuse.

It is my opinion that since the school system taught this generation that their parents should not be disciplining them that it is there in their brains deep down that they should not discipline their children. I have two daughters who are now Moms and one of my daughters is pretty strict with her kids and she has a great husband for backup. My other daughter is a single Mom and having issues with her son, but all in all he is pretty darned well behaved. Partly because he was in Grandma's daycare for 3 1/2 year, if I do say so myself!

[kidlove]

The problem is: TOO MANY BOOKS READ, TOO MANY "STUDIES" DONE! .....NOT ENOUGH COMMON SENSE, WHEN RAISING KIDS.

[michellesmunchkins]

The problem is: TOO MANY BOOKS READ, TOO MANY "STUDIES" DONE! .....NOT ENOUGH COMMON SENSE, WHEN RAISING KIDS.

Agree!!!!!!!

[Toregone]

As a parent of a young child it is hard in this society to disipline. That doesn't stop my husband and I from sending out child to his room, spanking his bum sometimes, teaching him manners, and *gasp* raising our voices sometimes.

I say it is hard because of cases like what happened to my husband last night. We were grocery shopping and at the check out my son started whining for candy. After a couple of attempts to placate him he started raising his volume and went into full blown tantrum. My husband said "Ok, we're going to the car." and proceeded to take him to the car while I paid for the groceries. Apperantly while he was struggling to get my kicking and screaming 3 year old safely into his car seat he raised his voice and said "N! Sit down now! You have to be in your seat!" The same thing I've said a dozen times in the same situation. While a gentleman in the truck next to us got out of his vehicle and started to lecture my husband about not raising his voice to a child and how yelling helps nothing, don't do it... God, the guy is lucky I wasn't there and only heard about it after. My hubby is nicer than I am :)

When complete strangers feel it is thier right to put the guilt trip on a parent after seeing a small snippet of the picture something is wrong. It makes it hard as a parent today, you feel the censure of society and it's not just in your head, people will actually bust your chops on things. Maybe I'm just old school but I still believe in disipline for my child, will send him to his room, take away toys, and do not tolerate disrecpect. Be dammed what the guy in the grocery store parking lot thinks. :laugh:

[country girl]

EVERYTHING our parents did was wrong... well according to the professional. I was spanked, forced to finish my plate, rewarded with cookies, told NOT to act like a baby, sent to my room. But if you read anything all that was not good to do... Turned out fine by the way. So they tell us HOW BAD it is for the child so maybe yes parents are AFRAID to discipline because it causes harm to their child. Plus it feels like everyone is watching and judging, so maybe it is intimidating to discipline a child in public, better do nothing. Whatever is written in a magasine on how to do is not SHOWN in real life to the parents so we really do not know how to apply it and have they been in my house ? How do they know WHY my child is acting up and if I can't apply what I have learned from my parents and I don't know how to apply what I've seen in a magazine ... what will I do ?

Yes I tend to agree with this...I believe there are so many studies done & too many "parenting" books out there written by "experts" and parents then feel judged if they discipline the "wrong" way. Or don't practice what the so-called experts say. I see it every day in my area and with my friends. Parents acting one way while in the company of other parents and listening to every study published. Personally I don't give a shit what people think me...so I rarely have this problem. I tell it like it is. I am (usually) a tough love type of parent & make no bones about that. However, when your talking parenting with some people who don't agree with your form of discipline you sometimes get "the look" of disgust from them. Some people just care too much about what others think when it comes to parenting & don't want to be judged.

[Sandbox Sally]

I just wanted to chime in here:

I think everyone knows by now that I am PRO gentle discipline and ANTI spanking and shaming for discipline methods. ;)

The books and the studies that say that shaming and corporal punishment aren't effective are not flawed - the parents' interpretation of the studies is flawed.

Not spanking/shouting/shaming does NOT equal not disciplining. So much can be done without causing physical pain or humiliation. As I have rambled on and on about on previous threads, I have, first hand, seen many many children who were raised with gentle discipline methods who have turned out to be beautiful, polite, well rounded citizens.

IMO, the real problem here is not the newfangled way of doing things, but rather, lazy parenting being a more common reality these days.

[sunnydays]

I think it is definitely possible to discipline with or without spanking etc...but I think the problem is that parents are tired and busy. They rush home from work, rush to extra-curricular events, ahve no support from extended family and often bring work home with them on their blackberries etc. Life is all about rushing kids from one event to the next, whether it be eating dinner and getting to bed or hockey practice...there is very little down time for anyone and everyone is always stressed! I feel this sometimes myself and struggle to keep it at bay because I do not want my kids to feel stressed...but at the same tiem I have to get them to eat and to bath and to bed on time so they are ready for school the next day and so I have time to clean up and rest a bit myself before the next day begins. And I purposely avoid putting my kids in extra-curricular activities except for one at a time because this just adds to the chaos and the stress and is totally unnecessary! Too little time, too much stress, tired parents...nobody has teh energy to discipline...it easier to just give them the cookies they want and buy yourself a few minutes of silence. I also agree that we are judged a lot by others in society and it makes it harder to discipline because we have to endure the "looks" from others when we do.

[kidlove]

I stand firm on what I believe in....I am a good Mother and if I have to....will "raise my voice" or "spank" my child if needed and am willing to be scrutinized and judged by others. The proper raising of my child comes way before the "opinions" of others.

Wow, Toregone....so funny, I read what happened to your Hubby, I fear the day someone approaches my Husband like that.....well, fear for the one approaching. (if you catch my drift) :)

[Toregone]

I stand firm on what I believe in....I am a good Mother and if I have to....will "raise my voice" or "spank" my child if needed and am willing to be scrutinized and judged by others. The proper raising of my child comes way before the "opinions" of others.

Wow, Toregone....so funny, I read what happened to your Hubby, I fear the day someone approaches my Husband like that.....well, fear for the one approaching. (if you catch my drift) :)

My husband fears the day someone approaches me like that haha. He's much more laid back than I and inclined to just turn the other cheek and ignore someone. I on the other hand would let the person know on no uncertian terms to lay off... esp now when I'm preggo and hormonal haha.

[crafty]

I agree with you Alpha, however I do not beleive it is lazyness. I mean some people have been tought different approches and they lack the knowledge , time and support.

I myself do not spank or yell but I was raised that way.However I had interests in kids and I studied in the social work field so I have tools and I learned to do things differently. But not everyone has been in the same boat. To me if parents are at least doing something and beeing CONSISTENT that's the key. I am very firm with my own kids, I will give them a chance to make amends, I am not afraid of saying no and giving logical consequences to unacceptable behaviours and I will raise my voice because all this has proved very effective for me.

What I think is happenning is we are asking parents to be perfect and have perfect children. If I see someone spank a child or humiliate them yes ofcourse I will cringe ... but honestly who am I to judge them. Because I've read in a book that you are no suppose to do that they are BAD parents ?

[Mamma_Mia]

As a parent of a young child it is hard in this society to disipline. That doesn't stop my husband and I from sending out child to his room, spanking his bum sometimes, teaching him manners, and *gasp* raising our voices sometimes.

I say it is hard because of cases like what happened to my husband last night. We were grocery shopping and at the check out my son started whining for candy. After a couple of attempts to placate him he started raising his volume and went into full blown tantrum. My husband said "Ok, we're going to the car." and proceeded to take him to the car while I paid for the groceries. Apperantly while he was struggling to get my kicking and screaming 3 year old safely into his car seat he raised his voice and said "N! Sit down now! You have to be in your seat!" The same thing I've said a dozen times in the same situation. While a gentleman in the truck next to us got out of his vehicle and started to lecture my husband about not raising his voice to a child and how yelling helps nothing, don't do it... God, the guy is lucky I wasn't there and only heard about it after. My hubby is nicer than I am :)

When complete strangers feel it is thier right to put the guilt trip on a parent after seeing a small snippet of the picture something is wrong. It makes it hard as a parent today, you feel the censure of society and it's not just in your head, people will actually bust your chops on things. Maybe I'm just old school but I still believe in disipline for my child, will send him to his room, take away toys, and do not tolerate disrecpect. Be dammed what the guy in the grocery store parking lot thinks. :laugh:

You and me sister!
If ANYONE got involved in my parenting they will for sure get a glare of death and depending on what they interupted a few choice words. Mind your own business!!!
First parents don't decipline enough, they they're too hard ........Pick one!!!! But do NOT as a stranger get involved in MY life.....oooooo I'm seeing red!

[Mamma_Mia]

I have a simple common sense answer: My own children are in their 20's and 30's now and they are the age of most of the new parents we have to deal with on a daily basis. Now when I remember back to when they were small and I was disciplining them it was the start of the 'Kid's Help Line' that was taught at schools and how parents should never spank them because that was abuse.

It is my opinion that since the school system taught this generation that their parents should not be disciplining them that it is there in their brains deep down that they should not discipline their children. I have two daughters who are now Moms and one of my daughters is pretty strict with her kids and she has a great husband for backup. My other daughter is a single Mom and having issues with her son, but all in all he is pretty darned well behaved. Partly because he was in Grandma's daycare for 3 1/2 year, if I do say so myself!

I am proud to say that I am 27 years old and I remember when that started in our school. We thought we were golden and able to say/do whatever we wanted to our parents because the police would come and get them.

Well I remember being 12yrs old and I came home at lunch with friends (big no-no). My dad was fuming and yelling at the mess we made. I rolled my eyes and ignored him...then I said "you can't do anything or I'm calling CS on you". BIGGEST mistake ever!! Dad replied "oh yeah? go ahead and call them....by the time they get here I'd already kill you". Eeeeeekkkk!!!!

My parents weren't afraid and still enforced the same rules & respect. NOW I had friends who did the same and their parents backed off.....That's when I think it went down hill! If THOSE parents stuck to their guns we wouldn't be in this now...

[Momof4]

MammaMia I wish I could thank you a thousand times. Are you sure you aren't my daughter?

I was a single Mom faced with exactly what you are describing from my children once they reached age 11 or so and it was all choas after that. There were times when I said to them: Good, call the kid's help line and tell them I want to report Mother Abuse!!!

But you see, up until age 10 my children were raised with love and discipline and rules and fun in equal measures and I stand by my tried and true rule - COMMON SENSE!

That is exactly why my children turned out to be fantastic people once they survived their teenage years

[daycarewhisperer]

I think it is definitely possible to discipline with or without spanking etc...but I think the problem is that parents are tired and busy. They rush home from work, rush to extra-curricular events, ahve no support from extended family and often bring work home with them on their blackberries etc. Life is all about rushing kids from one event to the next, whether it be eating dinner and getting to bed or hockey practice...there is very little down time for anyone and everyone is always stressed! I feel this sometimes myself and struggle to keep it at bay because I do not want my kids to feel stressed...but at the same tiem I have to get them to eat and to bath and to bed on time so they are ready for school the next day and so I have time to clean up and rest a bit myself before the next day begins. And I purposely avoid putting my kids in extra-curricular activities except for one at a time because this just adds to the chaos and the stress and is totally unnecessary! Too little time, too much stress, tired parents...nobody has teh energy to discipline...it easier to just give them the cookies they want and buy yourself a few minutes of silence. I also agree that we are judged a lot by others in society and it makes it harder to discipline because we have to endure the "looks" from others when we do.

I don't think this is really true. If you think about it, we have it so so so easy. We don't have to wash clothes by hand, hand carry water, chop wood, cook off a wood stove, work the fields, raise our own meats and vegetables, go by horse and carriage. We have stores that have everything we could possibly need all at one stop. We can purchase prepared food and just heat and serve. We can store the food easily our temp controlled house and our refrigerators.

We have instant access to each other. We have electricity, gas, entertainment at our finger TIPS. There couldn't be an easier time to raise children then now. We are NOT busier than our foremothers and fathers. We do NOT have it harder.

[Toregone]

I don't think this is really true. If you think about it, we have it so so so easy. We don't have to wash clothes by hand, hand carry water, chop wood, cook off a wood stove, work the fields, raise our own meats and vegetables, go by horse and carriage. We have stores that have everything we could possibly need all at one stop. We can purchase prepared food and just heat and serve. We can store the food easily our temp controlled house and our refrigerators.

We have instant access to each other. We have electricity, gas, entertainment at our finger TIPS. There couldn't be an easier time to raise children then now. We are NOT busier than our foremothers and fathers. We do NOT have it harder.

I would have to disagree somewhat. No I don't think we are busier per say but the lives we lead are so very different than that time it's comparing apples to oranges. No we don't have to chop wood, and wash laundry by hand but in the same token neither did they have 1.5 hour long daily commutes or parent teacher meetings. Society itself has also changed and life is less family/home-centric. Gone are the days of 6 kids at home HELPING mom wash laundry and dad chop wood. Parents nowadays balance tasks that are just as time consuming and do it without help because it's things kids can't do. Grandparents are less support because they themselves are often working.

Raising kids is tough regardless of if you were doing in now, 50 years or or 100 years ago. It's just tough in different ways.

[daycarewhisperer]

I would have to disagree somewhat. No I don't think we are busier per say but the lives we lead are so very different than that time it's comparing apples to oranges. No we don't have to chop wood, and wash laundry by hand but in the same token neither did they have 1.5 hour long daily commutes or parent teacher meetings. Society itself has also changed and life is less family/home-centric. Gone are the days of 6 kids at home HELPING mom wash laundry and dad chop wood. Parents nowadays balance tasks that are just as time consuming and do it without help because it's things kids can't do. Grandparents are less support because they themselves are often working.

Raising kids is tough regardless of if you were doing in now, 50 years or or 100 years ago. It's just tough in different ways.

Gone are the days of parents having to MAKE 6 kids at home HELP mom wash laundry and dad chop wood. For every bit of survival and living chores that were given to the children to do there was a parent there saying you MUST. Telling them NO they can't not do it. Telling them you won't HAVE food if you don't do this. And remember too that the kids who worked at home had school also and often a very long hike back and forth to school. They had LONG days of family work, school, and family work. Also the mom of six HAD infant, toddler, preschooler (kid one, two, three) without any older kid to help. We have parents who have infant, toddler, preschooler for the most part.

So yes... this generation has it WAY easy compared to our foremothers and forefathers. We need to get a grip and stop saying how HARD this is. It isn't. It's work but it's not HARD work compared to our grandparents, great grands, etc.

[Toregone]

Gone are the days of parents having to MAKE 6 kids at home HELP mom wash laundry and dad chop wood. For every bit of survival and living chores that were given to the children to do there was a parent there saying you MUST. Telling them NO they can't not do it. Telling them you won't HAVE food if you don't do this. And remember too that the kids who worked at home had school also and often a very long hike back and forth to school. They had LONG days of family work, school, and family work. Also the mom of six HAD infant, toddler, preschooler (kid one, two, three) without any older kid to help. We have parents who have infant, toddler, preschooler for the most part.

So yes... this generation has it WAY easy compared to our foremothers and forefathers. We need to get a grip and stop saying how HARD this is. It isn't. It's work but it's not HARD work compared to our grandparents, great grands, etc.

Sorry but I'm still going to have to disagree. Yes I see your point but it's still apples to oranges. I'm sure that just as I look back through history and say to myself "Holy crap that seems hard!" if my great grands were able to peek into the future and comprehend the lives we live they would say the same.

But that's a discussion for a different post. This thread is about disipline and yes I feel that whatever the reasoning (societal pressure, lack of time, laziness.. whatever you think the reason is) disipline has slacked considerably since even I was a child and I'm only 26.

[mumstheword]

I totally feel that there is a lack of discipline today. It's not just discipline though, it's a lack of involved parenting. Kids are not taught respect and manners and acceptable behaviour. Some, Parents have decided they want to be their kids friend. Some are just unaware I think. Some are too busy with work or too into themselves to take the time with their kids.

One of my dc moms is so afraid of a negative reaction from her kid (crying, temper tantrum, hitting, yes a 5 year old that hits her parents), that she pretty much gives into everything. She bargains with the kid, or bribes her or begs her. It's absurd to watch. Sometimes I just sit back and watch in awe. Sometimes I step in and take control of the situation. First, I want them out of my house and can not stand listening to them, second if the other kids are still hear they watch and learn from her and try to pull the same shit with their parents or worse me.
This Mother is a teacher! Wow, hope she can control her class better than she can her own kid. It blows my mind how an educated woman who works with kids can let her daughter act the way she does. Can't wait to see how charming this girl will be as a teenager. Oh and this mother also picks her child up at the very last minute before I close, even though she has been home for an hour and a half. The parents went on vacation and sent the kid to the daycare the entire time. They just don't want to spend time with her and she knows it.

I have another Mother that is completely clueless as to how to discipline her son. She is so overwhelmed with his behaviour that she is still sending him to me for full time daycare while she is on maternity leave with her new child. She is always surprised when I tell her that he was good for me, or that he didn't pull the crap with me that he pulls with her. She says that he won't go to bed or he won't eat or he won't listen. I said "what do you mean he won't? Does he have a choice? Who is in control here?" she laughs and says him. I said, yes and he knows it, that's your whole problem.

My children are not perfect by any means and either am I. But I put in a full effort (most of the time, I am human and have bad days or moments). I teach them manners and respect and do not tolerate them not using them. You will only see my kids pull a temper tantrum in the store once because they will get the message loud and clear that temper tantrums are not acceptable and will not be tolerated. My dd tried one once when I wouldn't buy her a treat. I was halfway through my shopping with a load of stuff in my cart. I was also in a hurry as we had company coming for dinner. I warned her once that if she didn't stop that behaviour immediatly that not only was she not getting a treat when we shop, EVER again , but she will also be taken home and put to bed and will miss out on the visit with friends. Well she kept going so I took her out of the cart, drove her home, put her in her room and she did not get to come down and play with the company, she only came out for dinner (which ended up being order in because I didn't have any food after leaving it at the store.) I explained to the company that I was sorry but teaching my child a lesson was priority and they laughed about it and were fine. My dd has never again pulled a temper tantrum in a store and now she's not allowed to ask for a treat, she has to wait and see if one is offered.

[kidlove]

I do feel....people MAKE their lives ,busier and more hectic than they need to be. The ONLY reason parents today are "strung out" "tired" "stressed"........is exactly what sunnydays stated above. parents are BOTH EMPLOYED (not all NEED to be) , rushing home, fast food dinner (no more family time), then change and off to "extra-curricular activities" (too many these days) and bring work home on "blackberries/computer" (enough is enough) work can't be left at work? kids can't be kids? Moms can't be Moms? That is what is wrong, lets get the world back to basics and off the highly advanced, highly educated "over drive". spend more time "spending time" and less time "waisting time". Then WE wouldn't be "so tired" that we can't even muster the energy to raise our kids proper.

[Momof4]

I'm sorry, but I also disagree with you daycarewhisperer. I grew up in the days when I came home from school, got supper on the table because my parents were farmers, so I think I can speak to the example you are using. We all worked together to keep home and family together, picking tomatoes and hoeing the soya beans. But we played outside with our friends all the time because it was before the age of technology and had lots of free time and family time too. All my clothes were made by my Mom and our food was healthy because we grew our own garden, canned, pickled, you name it.

Ok, then when I raised my children here in the city I was flabbergasted as technology took over in the 80's and 90's and I didn't have a clue how wild city kids can be either. I grew up a sheltered hick kid! So as my children learned new and interesting teenage issues I learned them too.

Now, my daughters are protecting their sons because they know how bad it can be growing up in the age of technology.

Mumstheword, I love that you said this:

I totally feel that there is a lack of discipline today. It's not just discipline though, it's a lack of involved parenting. Kids are not taught respect and manners and acceptable behaviour. Some, Parents have decided they want to be their kids friend. Some are just unaware I think. Some are too busy with work or too into themselves to take the time with their kids.

[daycarewhisperer]

I'm sorry, but I also disagree with you daycarewhisperer. I grew up in the days when I came home from school, got supper on the table because my parents were farmers, so I think I can speak to the example you are using. We all worked together to keep home and family together, picking tomatoes and hoeing the soya beans. But we played outside with our friends all the time because it was before the age of technology and had lots of free time and family time too. All my clothes were made by my Mom and our food was healthy because we grew our own garden, canned, pickled, you name it.

Can I ask what would have happened if you and your siblings said no to the work? What if you all refused to do it? Was it an option to "help" or not "help"? Did your parents tell you to do it and you could then decide for yourself if you would or wouldn't?

[kidlove]

We live a "farm" life, as much as you can in this world. Ha ha, my kids are "hick kids", we love the fact that they are not influenced by "city kids" (the ones you speak of momof4) I love the fact that my kids get off the bus and ride their bikes together (sister and brother). I choose who comes over to play...I control the friend list. :) My children also "help out" around the house and with our animals and in the garden. They are not worked to the bone, but they understand it takes all of us to have this life, and 9 times out of 10...they "do" with out an arguement...1) because they are told to and they have respect for us. and 2) because they understand, Mom can't do it all....and they have respect for us. 3) they enjoy this life, really enjoy helping out. :) My children are not given a "choice" when asked/told to do things around the house, please make your bed, please pick the tomatoes, please set the table, please feed the animals. A family is a family because they all work together. The Mom doesn't cater to all, (all the time) the children need to pull their weight too.......in todays world maybe too many parents aren't making their kids responsible, in turn, making their kids think, THEY are the one in control?

[daycarewhisperer]

We live a "farm" life, as much as you can in this world. Ha ha, my kids are "hick kids", we love the fact that they are not influenced by "city kids" (the ones you speak of momof4) I love the fact that my kids get off the bus and ride their bikes together (sister and brother). I choose who comes over to play...I control the friend list. :) My children also "help out" around the house and with our animals and in the garden. They are not worked to the bone, but they understand it takes all of us to have this life, and 9 times out of 10...they "do" with out an arguement...1) because they are told to and they have respect for us. and 2) because they understand, Mom can't do it all....and they have respect for us. 3) they enjoy this life, really enjoy helping out. :) My children are not given a "choice" when asked/told to do things around the house, please make your bed, please pick the tomatoes, please set the table, please feed the animals. A family is a family because they all work together. The Mom doesn't cater to all, (all the time) the children need to pull their weight too.......in todays world maybe too many parents aren't making their kids responsible, in turn, making their kids think, THEY are the one in control?

I love this post.

[Momof4]

Can I ask what would have happened if you and your siblings said no to the work? What if you all refused to do it? Was it an option to "help" or not "help"? Did your parents tell you to do it and you could then decide for yourself if you would or wouldn't?
I don't think any of us ever considered not helping or doing our chores. That happened with my children a lot though. I respected my parents completely and knew how hard they worked. My children were asking for supper before I even got in the door and took off my high heels & set down my briefcase. But when I was a child if you misbehaved at school you got the strap across your hand. My children were told at school that I wasn't supposed to discipline them. That is the difference. Also, it was the four of my little monkeys against me alone.