Inappropriate????

[Wonderwiper]

Came across this ad on Kijiji.....

We are a family of 4 looking for a white, english speaking live out nanny to care for our 2 girls, 2 and 3 years.* Duties would include preparing children's meals and snacks and general care of children.* No housework required.* We are willing to pay $70 cash per day.* Hours are Monday to Friday 8:30 to 6pm

[Inspired by Reggio]

Well first off assuming it is an Ontario ad YES it is inappropraite on several levels!

A) it is against the Ontario human rights code to place an ad looking for a WHITE person ~ you cannot discriminate against someone based on RACE!

B) As they are hiring somone into their home they are the 'employer' and according to the ESA it is illegal to ask someone to work 9.5 hours a day in your home and only compensate them with $70 a day .... they would have to pay a minimum of $10.25 a hour so $94 a day unless it was a 'live in' and then they can pay less and include room and board in the wage! They are also required on top of that to pay all employer related expenses such as EI, CPP and 4% vacation pay and so forth!

[mom-in-alberta]

Wow.... :blink:
So inappropriate!
As a white, english speaking person; I am apalled. I would never answer an ad like that!
I can only imagine how offensive this is to people who don't fit the "category".

[mimi]

Cheap biggots :thumbdown:

[Momof4]

:rolleyes::eek: I agree with MominAlberta. I'm a white, english speaking person who would NEVER answer that ad!

[Other Mummy]

This makes me sad/mad on so many levels :no:

[Wonderwiper]

I was also saddened by this ad other mommy!!!! It has been reported to Kijiji but has not been removed.

[playfelt]

This is one of those ads that while I understand the rationale and what they were trying to say it is coming across wrong. In fairness they probably thought they were being tactful by what they were saying and saying what they didn't want. I have seen many ads that specifically say must be English as first language or French or Tagalog or whatever the family needs. The idea is that they want someone who will speak the language properly to their child, be able to understand written instructions, read a story, etc. They may also be reeling from a bad experience such as if they had sponsored someone under the foreign caregiver program they only have to stay with the family for a certain length of time before they are free to apply for resident status and take whatever job they want as in the childcare is just a means to an end for many of them. So by saying what they did they are really saying they want a Canadian born English speaking nanny for their child that does not represent a visible minority becaus they are looking for a parent substitute - someone from their own culture.

If they had said that we still be jumping all over them for what they wrote. The truth is in a private situation we can discriminate - that is why we can choose only the families that meet our criteria whereas a daycare centre has to take whatever comes along. They are free to ask for whatever they want in their nanny. The more restrictions they put on the harder it will be to find someone but they are still free to ask whether we approve of it or not.

[ssmith]

I am new here and don't want to cause any trouble but I have seen ads of kijiji for pakistani nanny wanted, filipino nanny wanted, etc. Why does no one get upset about this? Reverse discrimination against "white" people runs rampant in todays society especially in large multicultural cities.

[sunnydays]

There is a difference between "white" and all of the other cultural groups you mentioned. "White" is not a culture! White is a skin colour. If someone is asking for a Pakistani caregiver, it is because they want someone who speaks their language, cooks their kind of food, shares cultural and religious beliefs etc. By asking for a "white" nanny, the person is only assuring themselves of skin colour...not culture, not religion, not type of foods, etc. The English speaking, I can understand...no issue with that. But asking for a "white" person is really really discriminatory. A person with brown skin who was born here and speaks English could just as easily fit with the cultural values of the family.



I am new here and don't want to cause any trouble but I have seen ads of kijiji for pakistani nanny wanted, filipino nanny wanted, etc. Why does no one get upset about this? Reverse discrimination against "white" people runs rampant in todays society especially in large multicultural cities.

[gramma]

I see a ton of ads where families are seeking a filipino nanny. how would advertising for a caucasian nanny be any different?


Well first off assuming it is an Ontario ad YES it is inappropraite on several levels!

A) it is against the Ontario human rights code to place an ad looking for a WHITE person ~ you cannot discriminate against someone based on RACE!

B) As they are hiring somone into their home they are the 'employer' and according to the ESA it is illegal to ask someone to work 9.5 hours a day in your home and only compensate them with $70 a day .... they would have to pay a minimum of $10.25 a hour so $94 a day unless it was a 'live in' and then they can pay less and include room and board in the wage! They are also required on top of that to pay all employer related expenses such as EI, CPP and 4% vacation pay and so forth!

[gramma]

What you are saying true so perhaps "white' was not the right way to put it but when you mention someone of "dark" skin even though they may have been born in Canada there are cultural differences in how children are raised. I looked after children whose heritage was Jamaican, although mom and dad were born in Canada. they had a very different way to discipline which includes spanking. I was told it was okay for me to spank their children if needed (although I never would) because in their culture it was acceptable and common practice. If the Op is only going to hire a white, english speaking canadian to help raise her children then why not just advertise that way rather than waste the time of dozens of people of different colours and backgrounds. Sorry but its just my opinion if this offends anyone.

There is a difference between "white" and all of the other cultural groups you mentioned. "White" is not a culture! White is a skin colour. If someone is asking for a Pakistani caregiver, it is because they want someone who speaks their language, cooks their kind of food, shares cultural and religious beliefs etc. By asking for a "white" nanny, the person is only assuring themselves of skin colour...not culture, not religion, not type of foods, etc. The English speaking, I can understand...no issue with that. But asking for a "white" person is really really discriminatory. A person with brown skin who was born here and speaks English could just as easily fit with the cultural values of the family.

[sunnydays]

Do you know how many white people spank their kids as well?! Tons! I think those are the types of issues that need to be discussed in an interview to see if the nanny is a good fit in terms of parenting style, values, etc. It has absolutely NOTHING to do with the colour of someone's skin nor the culture someone was raised in. My husband is African and was beaten as a child, as his family continues to do back home...but he has never laid a hand on our children and never would. He understands it is different here. On the flip side, I was spanked as a child (I am white, English speaking) and really wouldn't have a problem spanking my own children (have done it occasioanally over the years)...but I would NEVER spank someone else's child. Again, I stand by my statement that the Ad above is discriminatory and someone being "white" does absolutely nothing in the way of finding a good match of caregiver and family.



What you are saying true so perhaps "white' was not the right way to put it but when you mention someone of "dark" skin even though they may have been born in Canada there are cultural differences in how children are raised. I looked after children whose heritage was Jamaican, although mom and dad were born in Canada. they had a very different way to discipline which includes spanking. I was told it was okay for me to spank their children if needed (although I never would) because in their culture it was acceptable and common practice. If the Op is only going to hire a white, english speaking canadian to help raise her children then why not just advertise that way rather than waste the time of dozens of people of different colours and backgrounds. Sorry but its just my opinion if this offends anyone.

[Inspired by Reggio]

Yes we all 'discriminate' to some extent when making decisions ~ it is called weight the pros and cons of someones match compared to some other perons .... but the fact remains that there ARE some things it is illegal to discriminate based on ... and that even as 'business owners' we can find ourselves in trouble if we discriminate based on protected rights within Ontario or Canada!

However this is about EMPLOYMENT right as this is what the ad is for ~ someone wanting to employ a nanny in their home! An employer does NOT have the right to discriminate based on this things ... even if you are hiring someone to work in your home you are still accountable to the Human Rights Code and the Employment Standards Act .... personally ANY ad that specifically stated ANY of the things below would offend me and I would report the ad as offensive because it is in violation of the Code!

There is a difference between listing 'must haves' as WHITE AND ENGLISH SPEAKING cause that is discrimination as you are implying anyone who is NOT WHITE is not eligible for the job regardless of if they can do the job ... what if they were born here and speak fluent English but are BLACK / PAKISTAN/CHINESE/ETC the way this ad is worded automatically discriminates against them from even applying ... the LEGAL way to do this is to list in your ad 'ideal candidates must have a firm grasp of the English language both oral and written, must be willing to educate our children in a Christian faith, must be able and willing to cook meals such as XYZ as per our culture and so forth and so on and list your 'criteria' for your job ... that way it is possible that a person of another race culture and so forth may actually be able to apply and be an awesome match should your mind be OPEN AND INCLUSIVE!

If you end up choosing someone of your 'own race' as the best candidate because they had more skill / knowledge and met more of your criteria so be it but at least you were FAIR in the interviewing process!


http://www.ohrc.on.ca/en/social_areas/employment
Employment

The Code states that every person has a right to equal treatment with respect to employment without discrimination or harassment because of race, ancestry, place of origin, colour, ethnic origin, citizenship, creed, sex, sexual orientation, age, record of offences, marital status, family status or disability.

The right to “equal treatment with respect to employment” covers every aspect of the workplace environment and employment relationship, including job applications, recruitment, training, transfers, promotions, apprenticeship terms, dismissal and layoffs. It also covers rate of pay, overtime, hours of work, holidays, benefits, shift work, discipline and performance evaluations.

[Inspired by Reggio]

I see a ton of ads where families are seeking a filipino nanny. how would advertising for a caucasian nanny be any different?

It is not ~ all of them are discriminatory and illegal!

[gramma]

I totally respect all th opinions voiced here and what a great forum to be able to do so. For me personally its not offensive but we are each entitled to our opionion. I can agree as I mentioned before that perhaps the wording could be different so as not offend but still get the point across. :)

[Momof4]

gramma, I see your point and we all perceive things differently, that's what makes the world go round. But when I read the ad I perceived a very prejudiced person at the other end of it. It's nice that you see the good in people!

[playfelt]

And if the person is prejudiced better to know that from the ad and not bother to respond then to go to the interview and be judged face to face in a negative way. While the ad may be many negative things it did serve to save the dignity of many very qualified candidates.

[sunnydays]

I do agree with you here Playfelt! At least perspective nannies know not to bother with this family! However, I still find it sad that there are so very many families out there who have such narrow minds and therefore limit their own children from experiencing the world in all it's beauty.



And if the person is prejudiced better to know that from the ad and not bother to respond then to go to the interview and be judged face to face in a negative way. While the ad may be many negative things it did serve to save the dignity of many very qualified candidates.

[Inspired by Reggio]

Personally I think people seeking work in that field should stand up to the discrimination and start filing HUMAN RIGHTS CLAIMS against the persons who post these kinds of blatantly discriminatory and racist ads .... it is 2012 and there is no room in our society for people who think the color of your SKIN or where you were BORN dictates weather you are the best candidate for a job!

[sunnydays]

Amen to that Reggio! What saddens me even more is that so many people justify it and do not seem to see anything wrong with it...that is why it continues.

[ssmith]

I still dont know why people dont feel upset when people advertise only looking for philipino nanny, or pakistani nanny, or polish nanny etc etc. Isnt this just reverse discrimination against white people? A job posting for any other job would not be allowed to discriminate like this.

[playfelt]

The problem is the definition of a Canadian. People tend to still use where they came from not where they are so saying they are polish isn't totally the truth. They are Canadian of polish descent. Words mean different things to different people and in only a couple sentences it is hard to get across what was really intended. We can have our own interpretations but do not know what the writer was really trying to say so we can not really judge that. Poor choice of words - yes.

[Momof4]

I still dont know why people dont feel upset when people advertise only looking for philipino nanny, or pakistani nanny, or polish nanny etc etc. Isnt this just reverse discrimination against white people? A job posting for any other job would not be allowed to discriminate like this.

You are right of course if people want a person who they can pay too little or not pay benefits who are not familiar with Canadian laws. But sometimes, in very large metropolitan areas they are asking for the same nationality as the family so that the food and language and culture are understood by the nanny.

[sunnydays]

I think I wouldn't have had a problem with it if they had asked for a "Canadian" nanny...but to base it on skin colour is completely a different matter...it has nothing to do with language, culture, food, etc...it is simply a skin colour and that is racial discrimination.