Would you charge more for a child over 3 and in diapers still!

[Other Mummy]

Just want some feedback from all the seasoned providers out there :)

I have a dcb who is 3 and 2 months. He is not interested in potty training at all. I know for a fact that his mother and grandparents have not really initiated it up until this point. And that was because I mentioned that he needs to be using the potty soon. This was just before he turned 3.

He will cry and whine if you seat him on the potty. He's done a couple of pees but only cause he was actually placed on the potty when he had to go. Otherwise, you ask him and he says "no...I don't have" then poops his diaper or pees 2 min. later. I am NOT forcing him to use the potty here. I will give him reminders "DCB it's time for potty break, do you want to try?" Always get a NO answer.

I'm frustrated on many levels. He knows how to hold his pee and poop. And he obviously knows when it is coming. He can feel it. I've seen him go and hide and take a poop 2 min. after I asked him if he's interested in the potty. I don't want to change a 3 year old anymore. It's disgusting. It's the same as grown up poop at this point and feel that he should at least try to use the potty. After he's done his poop he will chase after me to change his bum telling me "Change my bum, it hurts, change my bum NOW!" I've told him and his grandmother and mother...if he's old enough to demand a diaper change...he's old enough to potty.

I'm thinking of giving them 4 weeks, and then charging them a higher fee. Maybe 20 dollars more a week. They need to step up and take the reins. Yet every Monday morning I ask the mom how potty training went over the weekend and her meek reply is "Welll....he did a pee for us. That's it though" Really??

What to do?? I'm just gonna back off here and not even ask him anymore to use the potty. I don't want him to hate coming here cause I'm on him all the time to use the potty and physically putting him on the potty....well that ship has sailed. Great for the 2 year olds, NOT 3 year olds who are very, very strong willed

So has anyone charged more for a DCC who is not potty trained after 3 and shows NO signs of wanting to use the potty anytime soon.:mad:

[jodaycare]

I haven't but I have a 4 year old here that WILL not pee or poop in the potty! He is wet pretty much everytime I change him and he poops in his pull up twice a day!

[playfelt]

Unfortunately closer to age 4 is often the time when kids are trained these days and especially for boys. Doubt you will get the parents on board even with the extra charge - if they pay it great but most likely they will pull him from care - be sure you can afford to lose the income.

At the same time your other option is to release the child using the excuse of unwilling to potty train and you do not feel comfortable changing diapers on a child old enough to do it themselves and replacing the child iwth an infant.

Unless the child is really big for his age haven't really found an issue as in much difference between a 2 year old and 3 year old except I love it when their head practically hangs off the change table and they have to support themselves. I change diapers on my 19 year old special needs daughter - now that qualifies as gross. Maybe that desensitizes me to 3 year old poop too much to be objective for you.

[Play and Learn]

Well said Playfelt.

Like Playfelt said, if you can afford to loose the income on this child, then charge them the extra and see what happens - doesn't hurt to try?! I would also have a sheet of how to train the child for the parents/grandparents.

Good luck! And let us know how it goes!

[gcj]

hmmm...I wouldn't have much patience with that either. I think he goes in his Pull-Ups because he's being allowed to. He can, so why not? Before charging more, I would personally say I don't care what goes on at home, but in my house, at 3 we wear underwear. He walks in the door and changes. It's not as fun to wet underwear. Maybe at first, no pants, too.....it's seems to remind them more not to do it. Might be a tough week, but maybe it would work. Short time pain for long term gain. A Pull-Up is a glorified diaper and gives permission to use it as oppose to using the toilet.
I know you get into the dilemma that you're training him with no help from the parents, which is extremely frustrating, but you'll benefit in the end.
That would be my approach. I've done this and the parents see that hey, they can use a potty. Cool! DUH! Again, it sucks that they don't step up, but you gotta do what you gotta do...

[playfelt]

To combat the demands to be changed if he pees - make him do it himself. Poops well that is different - better to contain it to just the diaper. But for wet ones - he peed them he has to live with that. It won't hurt him to sit in it for a bit either till YOU are ready to change everyone's diapers. If he wanted a dry bum he knows where the toilet is and could have put his pee in there. It was his choice to use his diaper. A bit of reverse psychology can work on an older child that knows better but is just stubborn. Puts the responsibility for his happiness on his shoulders.

[Crayola kiddies]

Ok well I already know a lot of people on here don't agree with me but this is what I do. First let me say this is only for a child that is 3 or over. Once the child knows what it feels like when they have to go to the bathroom I make them take ownership of it. This child falls under that category. So make up a sticker chart and get the parents to supply underwear and plastic pants. When the child arrives in the morning take him to the bathroom and take off his pants and diaper and put on the u dresser and containment unit. Tell him in your mean voice that his is to use the toilet/potty and if he goes in the toilet he gets a sticker and if he gies in his pants he gets a timeout. For the first few days don't ask him if he needs to go tell him it's time to use the potty and dont give him a choice. This way he will hopefully have success and feel good about himself. But if he goes in his pants put him in a timeout and do something really fun with the other kids while he is sitting there. Once a child knows when they need to go and just chooses to go in his pants then he needs a deterrent (timeout). I wouldn't do this with child under 2.5.

[sunnydays]

Personally, I wouldn't charge an extra fee as I see it as just an unpleasant part of the job. As a parent, I think I would be put off at such a requirement and may think about leaving. However, I do agree that he is ready and the parents are being lazy or soft on him and are not doing their jobs. I would probably approach it more from an educating the parents point...give them info on how to do it and make suggestions (sticker charts with rewards maybe?) and really stress to them how he needs to be fully trained soon as he will start school next year and he will need lots of practice before that time to be able to do it independently and not be embarassed at school by accidents. Then you lay out a plan for them to follow and do the same at daycare. If you want to go the route that Crayola suggested, using time-outs, I would discuss this with the parents first. I know I wouldn't want my child to be punished for pottying accidents and I think many parents would feel the same. I have a friend whose son was not trained until he was almost five...he actually went to JK in pull-ups (I was surprised that they allowed him, but they did). With her she tried many things and he was so stubborn (she is a bit soft, so she probably didn't push hard enough early enough). Finally she used a reward system with little prizes and he was trained within a few days.

[Crayola kiddies]

In my defense .... When a child CHOOSES to pee/poo in his pants cause he knows the difference and knows the triggers within his body that tells him he has to use the bathroom that is not an accident, that is a choice. The same as a when child takes a toy from another child, or pushes another child or throws sand on his friend .... that is a choice and you would give a child a tine out for doing that so why not for defecating in his pants when he clearly knows how to do it. The original poster said "he knows when it's coming cause he goes and hides and then demands to be changed". He knows what he is doing is wrong but he's doing it anyway so punish him for it.

[Other Mummy]

My line of thinking is the same Crayola....I'm kinda old school regarding potty training. I believe pullups are glorified diapers marketed as a stepping stone to potty traing. DCM throws a few pull ups in his bag, yet sends him in a diaper in the morning. So I know they are not fully onboard for potty training, otherwise wouldent' he show up every morning in a pull up (if you believe in them, which I do not).

I don't want this to become a power struggle with dcb. But that's what it is when he poops 2 min. after crying/whining that he does not want to go potty and then demands to be changed. He told me he rather play and does not like the potty. He does not want to sit on the potty. Period.

Yes, I'm sure I can "train" him. Do I want to? Hell no. I do enough for dcf as it is. I provide a loving, enriching environment. I kiss his boo-boos. I spend hours doing crafts every week, I make sure he brushes his teeth after lunch before nap. This is the same dcm that drops her kids off everyday while she was off for 3 months and picked them up everyday at 6:00. The same mom that sends her kids here when they are sick with fever, dirrehea, etc. (BTW...I always send them back home when I learn that they are ill, like an hour or two into care or refuse care when they are ill).

My point is...dcm is LAZY to parent her own children. Not sure if she would pay the extra fee. My hunch is she will cause she knows she is NOT going to find better care than what I provide for her two children. But Potty training commando style (underwear) is NOT happening at my house for this child. I'm already pulling out my hair already. He will poop and pee underwear. He is that strong willed and defiant. DCM needs to do this commando style training at HER house. On HER Carpets, floors, couches, etc. She doesn't pay me nearly enough to do it here.

[sunnydays]

If this were a child who was already trained and had been for some time and then started pooping or peeing in his pants out of anger or manipulation etc (ruling out any physical illness or cause), then I would agree with you. But for a child who is not yet trained, I don't think they fully understand. They have always been allowed to do it before, why all of a sudden they are punished for it? I just think it sets it off on the wrong path. I agree with encouragement, motivation, pushing through positive ways (the parents could try leaving the child with no pants for a long weekend and watch like a hawk and get him to to toilet when he starts to pee etc). I just don't believe in punishing a child for something he/she has always been allowed to do and now that he is of a certain age he is suddenly not allowed to do and it becomes an issue of shame.



In my defense .... When a child CHOOSES to pee/poo in his pants cause he knows the difference and knows the triggers within his body that tells him he has to use the bathroom that is not an accident, that is a choice. The same as a when child takes a toy from another child, or pushes another child or throws sand on his friend .... that is a choice and you would give a child a tine out for doing that so why not for defecating in his pants when he clearly knows how to do it. The original poster said "he knows when it's coming cause he goes and hides and then demands to be changed". He knows what he is doing is wrong but he's doing it anyway so punish him for it.

[sunnydays]

I totally agree! I would not be putting him in underwear either! Parents need to do it...they need to be pressured to initiate it at home!


My line of thinking is the same Crayola....I'm kinda old school regarding potty training. I believe pullups are glorified diapers marketed as a stepping stone to potty traing. DCM throws a few pull ups in his bag, yet sends him in a diaper in the morning. So I know they are not fully onboard for potty training, otherwise wouldent' he show up every morning in a pull up (if you believe in them, which I do not).

I don't want this to become a power struggle with dcb. But that's what it is when he poops 2 min. after crying/whining that he does not want to go potty and then demands to be changed. He told me he rather play and does not like the potty. He does not want to sit on the potty. Period.

Yes, I'm sure I can "train" him. Do I want to? Hell no. I do enough for dcf as it is. I provide a loving, enriching environment. I kiss his boo-boos. I spend hours doing crafts every week, I make sure he brushes his teeth after lunch before nap. This is the same dcm that drops her kids off everyday while she was off for 3 months and picked them up everyday at 6:00. The same mom that sends her kids here when they are sick with fever, dirrehea, etc. (BTW...I always send them back home when I learn that they are ill, like an hour or two into care or refuse care when they are ill).

My point is...dcm is LAZY to parent her own children. Not sure if she would pay the extra fee. My hunch is she will cause she knows she is NOT going to find better care than what I provide for her two children. But Potty training commando style (underwear) is NOT happening at my house for this child. I'm already pulling out my hair already. He will poop and pee underwear. He is that strong willed and defiant. DCM needs to do this commando style training at HER house. On HER Carpets, floors, couches, etc. She doesn't pay me nearly enough to do it here.

[Momof4]

I always find the children who are morning and night poopers are the ones with the parents who are really trying hard to train them. They see the size and problem of a 3 year old poop in a pullup!

[Toregone]

A friend of mine potty trained her child because of an increase in fees at her daycare. She was in centre care and her son was aging out of one room, and the next room up only allowed potty trained children. So the centre was going to levy a monthly fee on her for the additional hardship on the staff in the new room since they were not supposed to be changing diapers. I know your situation is sort of different but you wouldn't be the only person/caregiver to do this. Her son was turning 3 I think.

Commando style training isn't great for a daycare situation but undies with plastic pants over top or specialty cloth training pants work great. I used them for my own son. You could tell the mom that from now on for potty training pulls up and diapers are not allowed and the child will have to come in waterproof undies. I think that doing the laundry of a poopy underpant rolled up in a shopping bag might prove to be an incentive for her even more than paying extra.. lol. If they bring him in a diaper/pull up in the morning simpily ask them to please change him into his undies for the day.

[Momof4]

To answer your original question, I charge the same amount for children of all ages, even babies. All ages have their own special challenges so I can't differentiate between ages.

[Crayola kiddies]

I have heard of some care givers that have it in their contract that children must be trained by their third birthday . If the child is not trained by the time they turn three the parent must take the week off(or two if that's what it takes) and train them and fees are still due.