Finally moving with the times

[kidlove]

:woot: I am making a WEB PAGE! Besides this forum, I am not much of a computer person. I have started making a web site for the day care, and am quite excited, I told a Mom today and let her know that tomorrow I would have a release for all parents to sign so I can get their pictures up to share with them and other parents. She responded by saying "your not getting my concent" WAM! right in the face. She said she doesn't want her child on the internet, too many petifiles. :( I completely understand her point of view, I too am protective with my children, don't trust many people and would NEVER allow them to get online with out me knowing first. But she really made me stop and think......is it not a good idea to post things on the internet with the daycare kiddos. I don't plan to use names, just cute faces, and as far as I've seen ( i have never put my daycare on the net) but anyone could find any business or person for that matter these days with out you "putting yourself out there" I was surprised when I looked my day care up, I could find my house on a map, my complete address, so how much is a parent really protecting by saying, "no, you don't have permission to put my kids face on your sight"? How many of you have web sites for your daycare and how many of your parents say "no way!"?

[mustbenuts]

I have a website and all pics with kids faces are protected by a password. That worked fine for my old group but as new parents have signed on, most are still saying they will not give consent for pics online even though they are private and not available to the public. So now I don't post any pics of kids' faces. I do have a weekly blog where I post pics of stuff we did but all pics are of their hands or backs, more showing what we did rather than focusing on the child. I then send pics of their kids directly to parents by email, but just once in a while since that can be time consuming. I will just save the pics I can't post and use them for a photobook or CD when the child leaves my care. I have found my site very useful for advertising as well as getting info out to current parents, but the hard part is getting them to actually check it.

[Rangersangel]

I completely understand not wanting your child picture out there. I have had my web site for the past 4 years but I don't post pictures of my kids on it. Nor do I post my home address just the area I serve. Separate from my public business site I have a separate facebook account and a private group for my current parents only. This is where I post pictures of the kids, give updates to parents etc. I also have a public page on FB but again no pictures with kids faces. Unfortunately you can never be too careful.

Dawn

[kidlove]

so maybe it's not uncommon for parents to say no.....hmmm. like I said, I am new to the computer world, just figured because so many parents are on facebook they would mostly be ok with it. This one Mom, I have to say, I think she would disagree with just about anything I try just for the sake of disagreement.....she is very tough to please for sure. Arguementative. :)

[sunnydays]

I have a website, but I don't post pictures with kids faces in them...just littlehands doing things and sometimes little feet. Some of my parents don't even want their child's photos emailed to the other parents...and I don't blame them. I wouldn't want my kids' pictures on a website either.

[sunnydays]

Facebook is a bit different as parents can restrict access to friends only (although I actually don't post my kids' photos there either). With a website it is out there for anyone to do anything with...they could copy and paste and it it could end up who knows where.

[kidlove]

hmmm! now i am def rethinking this web site thing. sounds less safe than I thought. I guess I just considered it the same as face book, maybe it's not a good idea. How do you get a private web site?

[sunnydays]

I think it's safe as long as you don't post anything private on it like your address, phone number, kids names and pictures, or any names for that matter. If it is for advertising, you don't want it to be private or nobody will be able to see it. I know some websites have the option to have a page that is private and can only be accessed by members...then you can have your photos and private things just for clients in there and the rest public. I just opt not to put anything private on...my website is a huge reason I have always been able to fill my spaces really quickly...I do highly recommend it...you just have to do it safely!


hmmm! now i am def rethinking this web site thing. sounds less safe than I thought. I guess I just considered it the same as face book, maybe it's not a good idea. How do you get a private web site?

[bright sparks]

Coming from the UK and knowing that you arent allowed to take pictures of children in places where children congrigate without the signed consent of every parent, I didn't give it a second thought when I first started my daycare to ask parents to sign to give permission to take photos of their child. Just to be more specific, in the UK schools, churches, youth groups, kindergym, moms and baby groups, indoor play grounds etc etc, require a signed consent form to allow other parents to take photos. Seems a little extreme but the crime rate being what it is over their and the headlines regularly having child related crimes being reported, I never argued this rule.
Back to the point the, In addition to the form signed alongside the contract, I have agreed that before the use of the pictures in advertisements, such as websites and flyers, I would notify them to give them an additional opportunity to let me know if it was still okay to use their childs image.

I have had a website for a number of years and do not post pictures of the children, ever. I do however really like the idea of password protection if the parents wanted to check in and see what the kids had been up to during that week/month. As for my address, I make sure to only put the closet main intersection on the address form as I to found that my exact address was being shown to everyone and anyone.

[Cocoon]

I would never put my kids pics. on Internet and certainly would not allow anybody to do that. As your client said too many petifiles. If I was looking for a day home and if I didn't see kids pics on day homes website it wouldn't stop me meeting them.

Bright sparks, where in UK you coming from if you don't mind me asking?

[Momof4]

I have permission from each of my dcparents to have their children's pics on my website. It specifies on my form that the media in our city can also take their pics since we've been asked in our main downtown park a few times by the newspapter photographers. I would always check their credentials but how do you know when you are at a park that someone isn't using a zoom lens and taking pics of your kids? I've wondered about that before.

I know for a fact that potential parents love the pics on my website and it presells the daycare because they can see so many of the things we do here. My permission form also states that I will never use the children's pics anywhere else except on my website and when I advertise. None of the parents have ever had a problem with it.

[bright sparks]

Bright sparks, where in UK you coming from if you don't mind me asking?

Ive been in Canada for 7 years and I came from Manchester :)

[mustbenuts]

For the question about how do you make a page private, I have my site through webs.com and I have just made a pricvate parents area by putting a password on a group of pages. It's very easy to do.

[kidlove]

Thanks mustbenuts, mine too is webs.com, just found it the other day and was so easy to do, as I said I am so not a computer goo roo, and this web page I set up in like an hour. :) I will check that out (password) didn't know I had that option. thanks.

[kidlove]

mustbenuts: I just checked on the private page option and it looks like you have to pay a monthly fee for that upgrade? do you pay a fee for your website? as it is now, it's free.

[mustbenuts]

mustbenuts: I just checked on the private page option and it looks like you have to pay a monthly fee for that upgrade? do you pay a fee for your website? as it is now, it's free.

No I don't pay. Maybe it has changed since I started mine a couple years ago?? When you log in to edit and you go in to manage your pages and it lists all of the pages down the page, do you see the icons beside each page - "edit-view-settings-protect-visible-delete" ? You should be able to click on the icon of the little lock under "protect" and a window will pop up asking you to set who can see the page. I set my album page to "limited members" and then parents have to register in order to see that page. I put the Private parents Area in a sidebar on my homepage so parents click on that to sign in. I have to approve everyone when they register before they can view the locked/private pages. Does that make sense?

[kidlove]

yes, thanks. I will go back later and see what i can figure out. thanks for your help!!!

[Inspired by Reggio]

I use photos for varied reasons in the program ~ they are a large part of my progress development documentation and program with the kids for 'reflection' and so forth and YES they are a wonderful asset for advertizing for new clients to see the kids engaged in fun and the 'look on their faces' while engaged in the play can really send that message .... IME more and more regulated childcare programs and schools are requiring consent for use of digital images as a part of the authentic portfolio creation as this is a large part of the emergent play-based curriculum.

So for every possible 'venue' I might use a photo clients have to choose between either


Yes ~ permission to use my child's photo in this manner is granted

or the other column option is

No, do not use my child’s photo in this manner. If my child's image cannot be cropped out a photo to be used, please digitally distort his/her image beyond facial recognition.

So basically consent is set up so that they cannot choose absolutely NO photos of their kid at all be taken or used for any purpose ~ if they want to be a part of the program some level of consent must be given at least to use it in the PROGRAM for documentation because well that is a 'deal breaker' for my program but I do respect their comfort level on how photos might be used publically and to alter their kids image if they are in the background and so forth.

I also have a section that states I have no control over if someone ELSE takes their photo while out and about without our knowledge or permission cause lets face it the minute you leave the house how do you 'stop' that and again I am not prepared to hide in my house to make sure it never happens!

I also have a section that indicates I have no control what a different third party might do with a photo consented to be shared beyond the program walls ... aka if a client takes documentation from the password protected area and shares it with their family or on Facebook I would have no way of knowing or controlling or being liable for that or if a third party copies and pastes a digital photo from an ad on Kijiji or my website again no control or liability over that.

Personally for me I am fully aware that in this day in age our 'digital image' is being taken ALL THE TIME .... Google Earth is snapping satellite photos of us in the yard or at the playground heck there is one image that went around from Google Maps 3D camera thing that showed some poor dude walking naked IN his house so you are not even guaranteed to have privacy there any more ;)

Read online about another women tried to 'sue' the media because somehow an image of her falling in a water fountain went viral from a security video but she lost cause well basically it happened in 'public' and therefore was public and no control over someone snapping your photo anymore!

The bus drivers who are complaining they are being caught on camera and shared viral of them 'not doing their jobs' and so forth but having no recourse cause every one and your brother has a camera!

There are security cameras on the street and in the malls that are snapping images of us as we go about our business .... there are basically cameras 'everywhere' these days!

Seriously in the 'grand scheme' how is a couple photos of your kid engaged in fun to promote your childcare providers business going to be 'any different' than the 100's of other ways your kids image is already floating around in cyberspace!

Whats to stop someone in the grocery store employee from using the recording of your kid throwing the hugest tantrum to make a silly Youtube video and before you know it your kid is all over the net?

Do we think the 'People of Walmart' gave permission for those horrible photos of themselves to be splashed all over the world?

Also with family in the criminal justice system my understanding with pedophiles is they are not turned on by images 'freely available' online and are more likely to target a child they have seen IN PERSON somewhere and than obtain photos for their fantasy and they do not want ones openly available they want to get ILLEGAL pictures of children not openly shared because that is part of their sick perversion of being 'sneaky/forbidden' that turns them on ... so basically they are going to find out where you live and use their own camera take photos of your kid in the yard or playing or right through the window of your home on a long range zoom without your knowledge or they will find a computer trail of you and hack right into your computer and steal them off your hard drive because that is part of the 'excitement' for them .... they are not online looking at 'free photos' of kids through advertizements in magazines and so forth so really that fear is not based in reality of risk ... statistically speaking most 'pedophile abuse' is perpetrated by someone who KNOWS the child so I would be more afraid of Uncle Bob who always volunteers to take your kid for icecream at the Family reunion or the neighbor on the block with the 'cool toys' but no kids or the coach who offers to drive the kids home alone cause well they are the 'higher risk' of actually being the pedophile than some stranger who might see your kids photo on a daycarebear ad ;)

[bright sparks]

Also with family in the criminal justice system my understanding with pedophiles is they are not turned on by images 'freely available' online and are more likely to target a child they have seen IN PERSON somewhere and than obtain photos for their fantasy and they do not want ones openly available they want to get ILLEGAL pictures of children not openly shared because that is part of their sick perversion of being 'sneaky/forbidden' that turns them on ... so basically they are going to find out where you live and use their own camera take photos of your kid in the yard or playing or right through the window of your home on a long range zoom without your knowledge or they will find a computer trail of you and hack right into your computer and steal them off your hard drive because that is part of the 'excitement' for them .... they are not online looking at 'free photos' of kids through advertizements in magazines and so forth so really that fear is not based in reality of risk ... statistically speaking most 'pedophile abuse' is perpetrated by someone who KNOWS the child so I would be more afraid of Uncle Bob who always volunteers to take your kid for icecream at the Family reunion or the neighbor on the block with the 'cool toys' but no kids or the coach who offers to drive the kids home alone cause well they are the 'higher risk' of actually being the pedophile than some stranger who might see your kids photo on a daycarebear ad ;)

While I appreciate this opinion and perspective based on information from people with some inside insight, I think this is to general an assumption to be made. I get the psychy behind this, the appeal isn't as great if its easy in the minds of a pedophile, but its not the case for everyone one out there with a sick and perverted mind. There are many things that are out of my hands when it comes to being able to control things such as cctv, satellite imaging etc etc. I do however feel that if I can in anyway reduce the risk of my childs picture being made available to these kinds of people then the option should be given to me to refuse the right to my childs picture being used. I believe within the program where a picture is being used for educational purposes and within a trusted circle then this is absolutly fine. This is however IMO a very different use than posting online where there are websites and web users whose sole purposes are to source out pictures of children, amongst other things no doubt, and host them on sites and even amongst pedo circles. There are people online, every minute of everyday causing trouble and successfully hacking through firewalls, privacy software and anti-virus programs so a way to not let myself be consumed by anxiety over the true security of my childrens images, I refrane from posting any pictures of my own children online, EVER. The risk of one lazy, pedo googler trolling for kiddie pictures is enough for me to check the no thanks box. Also, being a lover of physical matter :) (real-life book fan for instance haha) I love to print my photo's and still have photo albums that I update on a regular basis. I also make an annual collage of each individual daycare kids photo's with a calender book on the bottom as a gift for parents to see their child grow through the year. The pictures I take of their children are emailed to them and printed out for my own personal collection and then deleted from my hard drive. This is what I have consent from the parents to do.

On my website the pictures are of the daycare space, and pictures of themed decorations and crafts that the children have made but without them in the shot.

[Inspired by Reggio]

Oh Bright do not get me wrong I totally respect peoples right to click NO to a public use of image for whatever rationale they choose it is their kid after all ... I have had clients on enrollment whose children were adopted or they worked in high risk jobs and so forth and did not want their child's image used publicly as an added precaution for their safety and yes there are exceptions to every generalization of 'normal' behaviour for sure cause there is no 'box' to contain all people .... specially people who are sick of mind and already outside the box to begin with ;)

I myself just see digital images as putting my child at LESS risk than sending them to school, sports, with Uncle Bob for ice cream or anywhere else I am not present where there is a higher statistical chance of a pedophile directly accessing them then via a 'photo' is all .... yes it does have a small risk but in the grand scheme of things there are greater risks we take every day stepping outside our homes ... I myself see the value in this particular risk which is why I am willing to use photos as advertizing and educational tools with peers about program development and so forth for others the value might not be worth that risk and that is cool.