All about the money parents

[Spixie33]

Ahhhhhhh...
I have a space open that I am trying to fill and the responses I get are all about the money.

I get an email from a parent looking for daycare and he tells me that he is only looking to spend between $55/$60 a day. Why answer my ad which has a rate posted of $35 a day / child? He doesn't ask at all what I offer - only what he is hoping to spend and whether I have space.

Then I get a call from another parent looking for care and she wants to know how many children I have etc. She saw my ad on daycare bear and wants to set up a meeting. She asks what I charge then says she has interviews set up with two other daycares who charge less per day than I do so she will go interview with those first and then call me back if neither of them works out.

Sorry but you cannot go solely on price alone where childcare is concerned.

Okay - venting ! Ahhhh!!!! I just don't get how $35 is a lot when I paid that for daycare 8 years ago for my own children and I have no idea why price is the first thing in parents' mind compared to quality of food, safety, quality of care/program and what is offered.

You wouldn't just buy a car for $500 because it was the cheapest thing available.

[BrightEyes]

What area do you live in? I am amazed that they think $35/day is a lot....lol!!!

As much as we hate that parents choose money over quality, sadly many parents have that mind set. :blink:

[Other Mummy]

Sadly I'm getting the money question as their first sentence out of their mouth when I get calls. I'm looking to fill one spot since August. I charge $33per day. I cannot believe how many people will nickle and dime their children yet think nothing of spending $10 a day (or more) on lattes at Starbucks or drive around in $60K cars. So sad.

[BrightEyes]

It really is sad other mummy! I too have been trying to fill one spot. But I charge $45/day. In my area it's not all that outrageous, but a lot of parents still think it is.

[Inspired by Reggio]

.... I just don't get how $35 is a lot when I paid that for daycare 8 years ago for my own children and I have no idea why price is the first thing in parents' mind compared to quality of food, safety, quality of care/program and what is offered.

You wouldn't just buy a car for $500 because it was the cheapest thing available.

Preaching to the choir hon .... I entered the field in 1988 when minimum wage was less than $3 per hour and was lucky to land a job in one of the first 'non profit' childcare centres in my home town recruited right out of college with a starting salary of $21,000, 3 weeks of paid vacation, 12 paid sick days at 100% and 12 at 50%, full benefits AND pension matching so if I paid in a $1 to it they matched it .... SWEET payment plan at the time cause that works out to $10.10 in direct wages with the paid vacation, sick days not to mention the ADDED benefit of the full drug, full dental and partial 'braces' things, full glasses and extended things like chiro, massage, short term and long term disablity and so forth which was very good plan and could add at least $3000 a year to your 'indirect income' through savings more if you had expensive drugs or what not!

2000 ... 12 years in the by the time I LEFT that job my salary had risen to a whopping $22,400 and we had lost most of our extend benefits and had to pay 50% on all the other things and the pension program etc and the fees to clients over the course of that time had only increased 'marginally' over the course of that time frame basically 'less' than the cost of living and were often 'frozen' same as our wages!

In 2005 when I relocated from that city to a new one ... with almost 20 years of experience and proven track record as an excellent ECE in my field whose continued their education and training to stay on top and I have a second degree in Human Resources Management and held my CHRP designation for that through the province for a couple years before deciding it was too expensive to keep ... you want to know the starting salary I was offered .... $10.10 an hour with no benefits, no paid sick days and no pension just your basic 2 weeks of vacation required by law!

So in the 20 years in the field ECE have seen their pay DECREASE .... how many industries can say that???

Not to mention that clients who use childcare keep complaining about the COST but the reality is that FEES in childcare centres have not changed with the COL like everything else at all ... as a new grad our INFANT program was $180 a week and well 25 years later and INFANT fees have only gone up in that region to about $220 a week which yes sounds 'bad' and in other regions they are WAY more I know but in comparison to how much FOOD / GAS and other things have gone up the change is very little ... seriously $40 over the course of almost THREE DECADES is not a huge inflation when you think about the fact that back than gas was like $0.27 a litre and now it is $1.30 a litre!

Want to hear another sad fact ... I am 43 years old and my father was a 'single dad' back in the early 70's wanna know what my 'babysitter' was paid to take care of me from the time I was 18 months until I started school at 6 years and my sister was old enough and home to babysit .... $100 a week and there were no RATIOS back than there were about 8 o so of us running around the house at any given time and they did not have to claim that as 'income' cause it was not seen as WORK by society :rolleyes:

Seriously so in 40 years the cost of childcare has gone up from $20/day to $35/day and back than the 'average' work day was 7 hours so you'd be in care a max 7.5 hours cause commute were shorter and well now most kids are in care an extra 2 hours at least.

Our industry is one of the least valued and least supported out there and it is only getting WORSE as the standards and expectations for the industry increase but the remuneration continues to go down while society sees the 'cost rising' not realizing it aint cause WE are pocketing that but the cost of food, heat, hydro, sewage, property taxes and well all the cost of offering the 'service' have gone up considerably!

And yet we constantly have to listen to society drone on and one about how we are in this for the money :cursing:

[mimi]

Thank you Reggio for your post. Very enlightening!!! I have been charging $40.00 per day for the past 31/2 years so it is a bit on the low side but close to the norm. In my neighborhood a lady has opened a daycare. Her ad says she is ECE and she is charging $30.00 per day. I hope she is full because there is no way I will or can charge that. Why oh why did she not research the area prices? I am charging fair market value and she under cuts her "competitors" by 25%. That's lousy business and she is doing herself and our industry a deserve. I hope my future interviewees do not see her ad 'cause then I will have to explain and justify over and over about getting what you pay for.

[Inspired by Reggio]

Yup sadly I think that people who have never been in 'business management' end of childcare do not realize how much it COSTS to provide a quality early learning program and they are looking at their shitty centre wage and thinking 'hmmm I am working damn hard here for about $12.50 an hour so if I have 5 children at $30 a day that is $150 a day so I am making $50 a day more than I am now and wow that is awesome cause I will be self employed and yada yada all the benefits of doing this ... but they are not thinking about the fact it takes time to be FULL as well as that being self employed you are now working 12 plus hours a day wearing all the hats for that so while you made $100 a day in your centre you only worked 8 hours and someone else cooked, cleaned and did all the administration you just had to do the 'front line fun' with the kids ... so now factor in you work 12 hours now and you are in reality making SAME hourly wage but with a shit load more responsibility ... than they eventually realize holy shit it costs at LEAST $5 a day just to FEED them assuming you are using non organic and more processed style foods to keep that cost down so now your only making $125 a day and working 12 hours a day so now you are making only $10.40 an hour which is basically minimum wage in Ontario at least ... and you have not even factored in your business insurance, advertizing expenses, toys, equipment, craft and sensory and other consumable supplies used, the increase in your heat, hydro, sewage, the wear and tear on your home and so forth and so on and well before that poor 'newbie' finishes her first year she realizes CRAP once I pay my business taxes I am basically working all these long hours and dealing with all the stress of managing a business for FREE!

Than she either has to raise her fees substantially and risk loosing all her clients and starting over again cause they likely signed on cause 'cheap' was their motivation so they are going to seek out the next cheap newbie or she has to suck up her lack of research and planning and leave it be with her current clients and wait for turnover to get to be paid a FAIR wage moving forward!

So yes I agree .... do your RESEARCH before starting out and setting your fees to LOW because it ss very hard to get them back up their while maintaining your current clients and well basically you end up attracting those where 'cheap' is their motivation and value orientation for childcare!

[Mamma_Mia]

I hate that too!

I'm looking to fill 2 spots right now and the only thing "going" is a mom who needs care in Spring 2013. Ahhhhh so frusterating! Things are sooooo slow now.

Speaking for myself I'm in Whitby, Ontario (about 40min from Toronto) and $35/day is the going rate although quite a few still do $30 and most do $15-18/day for B&A!!

[fruitloop]

Yup, it's either money or hours I find. I'm in the high average range for my daycare and I'm open for 9.5 hours/day. People either want cheap d/c or longer hours both of which I refuse to do. I find only a few actually really value quality (in food and daycare in general) and they go for cheaper. It drives me crazy when new providers pop up and undercut everyone else and then they usually always end up not lasting because they can't handle all the this job requires.

[Spixie33]

Oh don't even get me started on low ball daycares.
We have one just starting up in our neighbourhood - she has a good program, the set up looks good judging by her ad pictures and she is starting out at $25/day.

Grrrr.

This is why parents think I am expensive at $35.

I talked to another provider about this particular 'ad' and she knows this person and said that the person is just really desperate to get people in and start making money.

I was like :blink: but what about the future? How will she ever increase her rates? How are we supposed to compete when we are priced 40% higher? :ohmy:

This other provider assured me to relax because it was just an initial ploy for this lady to get started but I was in that situation once and I did not take that route because I knew it was going to come back and bite me in the butt if people signed and then stayed on for 3-4 years.

I can understand money can be tight and we all want to fill our daycare but I wish there was a universal pact that low balling is not the way. :) I just hope she fills up soon so that we can go back to regular business.

[apples and bananas]

I agree i wouldn't buy a $500 car just because it's the cheapest, but if I had a budget I would only look at the $500 cars first to see if i could get what I want in my price range.

I used to pay $30 a day when I had my kids in care, I started charging $30 a day, then I realized the rest of the area was at $35 so I went with the flow and have never had a problem or question about it.

I don't think I've ever had a client ask me for price first, but then again I post my prices so they know what they are when they start.

I think a client is a client and just because they ask how much you charge doesn't mean they are going for the cheapest daycare, it may mean that they're concious about money and making sure they get the best bang for their buck.

I know people in my area who have amazing programs, much better then mine, and they charge the same amount that I do.

Maybe when clients call and ask about price have something to tell them that no one else has. Maybe you don't charge for vacation time... or maybe you supply all of the milk... maybe you can focus on healthy meals and snacks... maybe let them know that there are plenty of good daycares in the area, everyone offers somthing different, so suggest they make an appointment with you anyways because daycare is all about finding the right match!

Good luck filling your spots, I hope it comes quickly.

[kidlove]

If I was in the market for daycare for my children, I would def question the quality of care if the cost was low. In my area if a provider is offering way below the going rate...there is a reason. Go to her house in the afternoon, the TV on soap operas/talk shows, shes got a cigarette hanging out of her mouth and the phone on her ear. or she runs a baby factory.....always over limit and open 24/7. No thanks....a good parent sees the value in quality care, heads up on parents who's first concern is "what do you charge?" their priorities are not where they need to be to be in your day care anyway. I have had a lot of calls like that...."what do you charge?" I tell them, then they say, "thank you" and hang up. I say, "no thank you" :)

[mimi]

using the car analogy, when we purchase a vehicle my husband and I discuss what features we want and features we need. Then we go shopping with our list and try to find the best value. Some providers will charge their areas going rate because they can, but do not give the client the value and vice versa. That is why shopping by price does not give you good insight into anything you purchase or service you use. Everyone has to do the product/service research. I have a woman looking for daycare for 2 siblings in August. I told her I wouldn't be able to give her a definitive answer that far in advance, however I invited her to visit my daycare and get an idea what my rate should get her. I invited her for the sake of being professional (good for our industry rep) and perhaps I might have the spots open when she needs them. Either way, it will help her chose quality home daycare and she might recommend me in the future. Karma. :D

[kidlove]

Get this one:
About 4.5 years ago I had a Mom come to me for a first interview...she was about 6 month prgnant at the time. She seemed really nice, enjoyed our time, and called me a few days later to let me know she wanted to go with my day Care. Yay! she seemed so nice! I kept in monthly touch with her for a few months (you always wonder when they a pregnant, if its for sure) we talked a few times after that and she still seemed fine. I didn't hear from her for a while, it was past her due date.....hmm. Then, I got a call from her, boldly informing me she had found someone who was a little closer to her home and who charged less. She was going with this one instead.....I happened to know the woman she named and also knew she was not licensed :( I informed the Mother of this, told her that her choice was ok with me but I just wanted her to know that not only was this woman operating illegal but was also not certified in life saving skills such as first aid and cpr, tried to point out to this mother that it was def more of a danger to put your baby in the care of someone unqualified. She said thankyou for letting me know, and hoped she wasn't making the wrong choice, and we hung up. About 6 moths passed, and who calls? The Mother that gave me the heave ho! says the provider was trashy, hitting on her husband and her daughter was always dirty and sick. I wanted to say, I TOLD YOU SO!!! but instead I smiled and said I would give her a second chance. (i know I'm crazy) long story short, I had the child for 3.5 years, lots of ups and downs, but enjoyed it all......then, find out the Mom is 5 months pregnant and didn't tell me......bringing me back to that first day I met her about 4.5 years ago......and what does she do almost 5 years later? screwed me AGAIN over price, chose to put her new baby in "free" care rather than the loving home her daughter has been in for 4.5 years. Price over quality for some. In my opinion......HUGE MISTAKE. This is childcare not a car wash.

[Spixie33]

I agree i wouldn't buy a $500 car just because it's the cheapest, but if I had a budget I would only look at the $500 cars first to see if i could get what I want in my price range.

I used to pay $30 a day when I had my kids in care, I started charging $30 a day, then I realized the rest of the area was at $35 so I went with the flow and have never had a problem or question about it.

I don't think I've ever had a client ask me for price first, but then again I post my prices so they know what they are when they start.

I think a client is a client and just because they ask how much you charge doesn't mean they are going for the cheapest daycare, it may mean that they're concious about money and making sure they get the best bang for their buck.

I know people in my area who have amazing programs, much better then mine, and they charge the same amount that I do.

Maybe when clients call and ask about price have something to tell them that no one else has. Maybe you don't charge for vacation time... or maybe you supply all of the milk... maybe you can focus on healthy meals and snacks... maybe let them know that there are plenty of good daycares in the area, everyone offers somthing different, so suggest they make an appointment with you anyways because daycare is all about finding the right match!

Good luck filling your spots, I hope it comes quickly.

I think buying a car makes people think of what they want in terms of features/mileage etc and then the price tends to match accordingly.

Same with daycare. The type of care, food etc all play a part in what rate you should be willing to pay and seriously - you cannot put a price on safety and trust.

I have my price right on daycare bear so I am not sure why these parents contact me and then say I am too expensive or contact me saying they only have a budget between $55-$60 a day for their two children. My ad clearly states my rate. My ad also clearly states all about my program, foods etc. It seems they contact me liking what they read but then thinking I will back down when they mention budgets or how others are cheaper in the area. Sorry but I work really hard and $35 is a great deal IMO for what they get. lol :p:p:p

I hear what you are saying about selling our daycare and how great it is, what I offer vs others but I would never want to waste my time on these type of parents. Telling me their budget and knowing that I am over their budget just screams NOOOOO to me. lol I wouldn't want to waste my time interviewing, or even sign one of the 'price focused' parents because I feel like they would leave if a better rate comes along.

I just feel like these parents could be trying to 'guilt/pressure' me to lower rates based on their price and that would be the most awful way to start a daycare relationship and would mean I back down on my policies.

[sunnydays]

Do you have a website? I have found this helps me a lot...when I get an email inquiring about my daycare, whether it be asking for the fees or other things, I always direct them to my website where they will find all of the info including my rates. I charge right at the top of rates for my area (nobody is higher than me at this time)...so I figure if they look at my website and decide that what I offer is worth the fees, they will contact me back..if not, they are not the right clients for me.

[Momof4]

Do you have a website? I have found this helps me a lot...when I get an email inquiring about my daycare, whether it be asking for the fees or other things, I always direct them to my website where they will find all of the info including my rates. I charge right at the top of rates for my area (nobody is higher than me at this time)...so I figure if they look at my website and decide that what I offer is worth the fees, they will contact me back..if not, they are not the right clients for me.

Me too. I politely answer about 99% of the emails I receive but direct them to my website so that all of their preliminary questions can be answered and there's lots of info and pictures there so they can get a feeling if their childrearing philosophies jive with mine.

[cfred]

I had one call me last week asking, of course, about rates and nothing else. She wondered why I charged also for stats. You see, she runs her own private business and wouldn't dream of charging. I indicated that I was on par with other providers, my rates were middle of the road and my policies are what they are. I've no idea if she'll book an interview or not...doubtful. Even if she does, welcome to the waiting list hun :)

[sunnydays]

I had one like that last year...wanted to bargain me down on paid stats and paid vacation days because she is slef-employed and doesn't get them, so why should I? Well, I get them because I put them in my contract and parents agree to paying them...never had a complaint. I decided not to take her on as a client even though she wanted the spot.


I had one call me last week asking, of course, about rates and nothing else. She wondered why I charged also for stats. You see, she runs her own private business and wouldn't dream of charging. I indicated that I was on par with other providers, my rates were middle of the road and my policies are what they are. I've no idea if she'll book an interview or not...doubtful. Even if she does, welcome to the waiting list hun :)