Prolly gonna get an ear full, but that's alright I guess

[1kidmama]

My daycare told me that I am welcomed to stay but she is going to start interviewing eithier for another person to fill the days my son is not there (and just promise me the days I normally come) or for a full time person, and then my notice will be given. I told her I didn't like signing that agreement and that was her answer....

She told me with kind of a cold tone that she went through my hours with me and showed me it would cost less, and she said "frankly you are paying more to stay casual and I just don't see the sense in it. For the past three months you have been paying an average of $400 for your care. But it's up to you" Then she said goodnight helped me with my son, and we left.


I guess I feel kinda jilted because I was her first client, and I have never been late with payment, Even though I didn't like her rules sometimes I always did what she asked, but you all are prolly gonna tell me that I should just suck it up and pay or something...But I just don't know what I am working, and my boyfriend doesn't see the sense of paying for a maybe....I sorta don't eithier, but I sorta do...

I think I screwed things up.

[kidlove]

so, your provider told you that you either need to pay for full care or she will fill your spot?
You may want to consider looking for care elsewhere then...you never know, sounds like she might be willing to let you go all together once she finds someone with more pay. If, I were her I would try to work another family around you, due to the fact that you have been there since the beginning. However daycare is a business just like any other, if she is giving you a really good deal she could have realized how much income she is losing by keeping your part time and not taking a full timer. Is there any way you can meet in the middle?
I'm assuming the issue is: you have a part time schedule but it changes sometimes? Is she charging you for the days only, no minimum required? maybe she is losing too much money due to the fact there is no schedule to rely on?

[1kidmama]

She said she would try to find another family to fill the days I am not there...She asked me to sign a perm part time care contract for $350 per month

[jazmic]

How much do you pay for the days that you use? How often does your child go?

[1kidmama]

She charges $40/ day and I go an average of two days/week aometimes 3 but very rare though

[jazmic]

I'm just trying to understand the picture. You currently pay about $320/month, maybe more if you go more days and she wants you to sign a contract for $350 a month for how many days? Because as you said, you sometimes pay $400, but she's offering you $350, so I'm not sure why you're unhappy with that. Are there terms in the contract that you don't like?

[Play and Learn]

I think the fact that she's given you the options, she's just covering her ass! Like others have said in your other thread: this is our income, and when we don't get paid, we can't make our own bills!

Please remember this: This is a business. We never know when a client is going to come or go, so we have to cover ourselves, and that is why we have manuals and contracts.

If I were you, I'd either pay the $350/month, and have guaranteed days, or just look for care elsewhere. BUT....I don't think you're going to find much leeway elsewhere. JMO.

[kidlove]

I agree with jazmic, just calculated it as well and that 320 is only for a four week month a lot of months have closer to 5 fulls weeks which would be more like a 400$ a month charge. Is it just because you dont want a contract or does the contract have a length of time. one full year? You would think you would be saving a little money, if you go with her idea. OR do you need varying days and she is not offering that?

[1kidmama]

Its 3 full days, and days like up to 10 hours.... But some months I may not need her at all...

She's charged me extra because sometimes he stays for 12 hours

[jazmic]

I see. I empathize with you not wanting to pay for care you don't use, but you also have to understand where she's coming from. Most people have jobs that pay benefits and all that so they are covered in ways daycare providers are not. If you don't use her at all for a month, then that means she doesn't have $320 to help cover her own bills. And if she doesn't know in advance that that's going to be the case, then that leaves her in a tight spot. If your employer did that to you, I'm sure you wouldn't like it either. So unfortunately, it looks like you have a decision to make where you try to find casual care elsewhere or sign her contract.

[kidlove]

There's the problem!!! I see now, some months you may not need her at all. That's where my minimum due comes into play, and now it makes perfect sense. Consider and employer hires a person and at the end off the interview says, "one catch, some times we won't need you to work at all" what person in their right mind is going to agree to a job that every once in a while provides no income at all? As a provider this job is unpredictable enough, people come and people go and it's often comes with no warning. We do what we can to keep our income stable...we too have bills to pay and mouths to feed so we have to protect ourselves with some reassurance that next month we will be ok. That's why we draw up contracts and require minimum due. Makes perfect sense that she wants a gaurenteed paycheck. it's up to you to take the offer though, your money your kid, but hopefully you can see it from her prospective too. good luck ;)

[kidlove]

Just an FYI too! if this is how you have been going for some time now? (some months you don't pay her at all?) consider your self extreamly lucky. Most providers have a weekly/monthly charge to keep the child in care. I personally allow one full week no pay per year. (of course, I don;t charge when I am closed) but other than that one week and the time I close for vaca....people have to pay the minimum due or I fill the spot.

[BlueRose]

maybe looking at it this way will help you understand where she is coming from:

if your child is in care for 3 days at $40/day, for 10 hrs each day totaling 30hours of care in a week, you are only paying your child's provided $4.00 per hour.
3days x $40 per day / 30hrs = $4 per hour

Out of that she has to pay for your child's food, your child's arts and craft supplies, and any other daycare items that are need as well as all her living costs (rent, food, etc)

kids working in fast food make more money an hour then the lady taking care of your child.

I have a lot of parents tell me that the $35 per day that I charge is a lot, until I break it down by hour.
I hope this helps.

[Crayola kiddies]

If it was me and I was offering you a spot at $350/month guaranteed and you didn't want to rake it I would definitely fill your spot. Paying on time is not a good enough reason to keep you because I expect everyone to pay on time. My spots are worth $800/month (based on four weeks) and I would not be willing to keep a spot open for half that amount. So if she is as good as you say and the availability of the service that you are looking for is almost nonexistant in your area then why do you want to risk losing it? If your son is happy there why take him out and have to transition him in another daycare (if you can find one)that he might not like so much. The grass is always greener on the other side till you get there and find out its actually weeds. I just don't get your problem ....from what you have said you are currently paying $400/month but she is offering you $350/month for a standard schedule why not take it and either send him on all the days and use those days that you are not working to run your errands and shop or get your hair cut ect so that way the days you have him home are free to spend totally with him or don't send him the extra day and you paying less per month anyway.... Or get a part time job at timmies or mc donalds to fill in the extra day and it's a win win......

[bright sparks]

There's the problem!!! I see now, some months you may not need her at all. That's where my minimum due comes into play, and now it makes perfect sense. Consider and employer hires a person and at the end off the interview says, "one catch, some times we won't need you to work at all" what person in their right mind is going to agree to a job that every once in a while provides no income at all? As a provider this job is unpredictable enough, people come and people go and it's often comes with no warning. We do what we can to keep our income stable...we too have bills to pay and mouths to feed so we have to protect ourselves with some reassurance that next month we will be ok. That's why we draw up contracts and require minimum due. Makes perfect sense that she wants a gaurenteed paycheck. it's up to you to take the offer though, your money your kid, but hopefully you can see it from her prospective too. good luck ;)

I was going to add to this thread, but you took the words out of my mouth kidlove. Hit the nail on the head. Nicely put :)

[Crayola kiddies]

Umm Valerie ...... She also has to pay income tax and cpp on that as well as hydro, heat, rider on her home insurance, if she takes them out in her vehicle extra insurance for her car too .... So really it's more then food and craft supplies. Not too mention the work done after closing time .... Cleaning cooking shopping. Plus if this posters child is there 12 hours thats dinner too.... So yup ... I'd be charging extra to stay that long too. Actually if I was going to be honest I would never take a family on that needed those hours. I close at 4:30 so that I can be sane at 6:45 the next morning.

[Inspired by Reggio]

Yes there are so many things in life I would like to pay only when I 'use' it but have the peace of mind in knowing it is there for me when I 'need it' .... however sadly that is not the way many things work these days!


We have a land line into our home that I maybe talk 5 minutes a month on ~ but Bell don't care that I rarely use it the fee is based on the whole month and unlimited local calls!
We pay for a basic cable line and maybe watch only 1-2 hours a day ... sure would be nice to not have to pay for the other 23 hours!
I pay a fortune in 'insurance premiums' every month but have never used it .... sure would be nice if you only had to pay the premium the month you knew you were going to need it ;)
My dad spends 6 months of the year sure down in the States cause he is retired I sure bet he wishes the property tax dude did not make him pay taxes on his residence here for the 6 months he is not here you know cause he is down there paying property tax on the residence he lives in there for that 6 months and vice versa.


I could go on obviously but my point is that THESE business base their fees not on an a la cart basis but a PACKAGE deal because that is how it BEST works for that business ... and this is what your provider has now realized ~ you are COSTING her money to serve and that is not affected by matter how much she likes you or how awesome your kid is that is just the MATH of the service you want compared to what the market can bare for the spaces in her program!

Honestly I wish more newbies would just STOP offering this service in the first place if they truly cannot 'afford' to have at least one of their spaces be flex care long term because we visit this issue over and over again on provider forums :(

Newbies or those whose enrollment suddenly 'dips low' start out thinking that a flex care arrangement is better than 'nothing' cause they feel desperate at the time to just get some clients in the door but they are not thinking that down the road this is going to cost them even more in 'lost revenue' than if they just waited a few more weeks or a month or so for the 'better match client'!

Than inevitably they get established in their business and get full and realize they are now working the same amount of hours everyday but are making 'less' than they could be because of the 'flex care' schedule. They start thinking if they just traded you in for a full time consistent income they would be ahead of the game and be able to get some money set aside, or more debt paid down or whatever for a 'rainy day' when enrollment might dip again on them ~ suddenly the flex care option no longer seems like it is in the best interest of being a viable business!

Yet when they 'point that out' to the flex care client the client obviously never sees it as 'of that makes sense we've been getting an awesome deal for all this time asking you to take a hit in income with our pay as you go care and should be grateful it lasted this long' they only see it as 'Well this sucks cause you had agreed to this and now I am going to be expected to either pay more to continue or go find another newbie willing to take me on. I sure wish you'd made this clear as a risk when we started out cause I might have looked around for someone whose long term plan accommodated a flex care option'.

The reality is in this scenario you are both right ... the provider has every right to change her business plan to suit her needs as her business grows and changes cause if she does not keep herself viable you are out of childcare either way if she has to close but as a client you have a right to feel used cause it should have been made clear at the onset of your arrangement that 'flex care' is not an ideal arrangement for her business plan and can only be accommodated when there is no demand for a consistent full time client so that you knew heading IN that this might be a short term arrangement before you would be expected to pony up for a more consistent income OR forfeit your space!

[sunnydays]

I'm not actually sure what you are upset about. Your post the other day was similar and we all explained to you why most of us do not do casual care and why your provider is asking for a part-time contract guaranteed and I think you understood the reasoning behind it. So now you are back to arguing with your provider about it and I can certainly understand that her tone may get firm as she has already told you your options and it is up to you to decide to risk losing the spot or sign the contract....I wouldn't take kindly to someone trying to negotiate my contract either. Would you try to negotiate with your landlord..."sorry, sometimes I don't get enough hours at work and on those months I can't afford to pay rent" ? I think not...this is no different. Either sign the contract or risk losign the spot. I would have done exactly as she did...I'd be advertising an dinterviewing to fill the spot too.

[mustbenuts]

I think your provider is just trying to maximize her income. If you can commit to certain days/week and pay that flat fee so she can fill around you, why is that a problem, especially if you will actually be playing less than what you are now? I think this provider has been bending over backwards for you and has had enough. She needs to make an income just like you do. The fact that you were her first client explains a lot. She took you on and accommodated your hours like most of us do when we first start. Now she is realizing that to make her business worth running, she needs to run at capacity and your casual hours are standing in her way. If you have such issue working with her on this after she has been flexible for you for so long, then you might as well look elsewhere and good luck finding a provider who will accommodate you like that.

[alreadyhere12]

I believe that the client you are talking about (and the one who is posting is mine)

And I am willing to post even though I may be on her %h&t list after this, but hey, she came here posting about me, so fair is fair if it is her. She and her son were my first clients yes, but when she first came to me she was a perm pt client..Then as time progressed she told me she was laid off from her job, and she and her sons dad were no longer living together (about 4 months) so I let her go down to a casual status for slightly more, and she signed the contract revision.

Her son was full time through the summer, and I did her a favor and charged her my regular full time rate and not her daily rate of $40.00. Now all of a sudden she told me she got laid off in sept, and was trying to save up for a trip. I have broached the subject of a pt contract 2x now only for her to brush it off and say that her schedule is all over the place and she doesn't need or want to commit to regular days. (her and her boyfriend have since got back together)

I gave her a print out of all the hours and days she was here...Including what she would have actually paid over the summer if she had been paying $40.00/day at 5 days a week, and all she said was oh yeah, well I said mine and g^a$ts schedule had changed so I said I wouldn't be coming f/t anymore. (Instead I charged her $550.00 a month what I give to regular full timers who sign a full time agreement)

And to note: yes I did her laundry..I have given her my some of my sons gently used clothing, and I my husband went to pick her son up when her boyfriend had to take the car and she had to take the bus to work. And she knows this.

I don't want to fill her spot I care for her son he has been with me for 1 year, but I must look out for myself and my family. I actually had to call the bank this month and get overdraft because I couldn't cover everything. I hate this, but this is the way it has to be.

[Crayola kiddies]

Already here ....... We have all been telling her that you have to look out for your business and you have been giving her a good deal so she should go with the part time that you have offered .... If this was me ..... I advertise and bring in a full time family and she would be looking for new care if I had no other spots available .... Families look after their own needs and providers need to look after their needs too ..... Everybody has bills to pay

[alreadyhere12]

I understand I am not angry...and I see that, I just wanted to give you all my side..I didn't take her on as a casual client to start my daycare, I only take ft or pt clients ...Just wanted to set the record straight. :)

[sunnydays]

I think even before you came on to tell your side, we all had a pretty good idea of what was going on (minus a few details you just added). I would have given her a time limit on signing the part-time contract and when the time is up start interviewing (I would be advertising now). You have been clear and from what she herself says, I think you are doing a great job of being professional!

[Inspired by Reggio]

Ah see ~ always two sides to every story ;)

[Judy Trickett]

Ah, isn't it amazing how views change when you know BOTH sides? ;)

To the provider in this situation: Let this be a lesson to you about doing SPECIAL for parents. When you offered her the lower fees schedule/minimum days and kept her on that became her NORMAL and never, for a second did she see that YOU were being kind and making an exception for her (as is obvious from her posts). The only person who, time and time again, remembered that this parent was getting a special deal was you every time she paid you. Your daycare - your rules. You have the right to have FULL paying clients if you so chose to have them. I think you are likely just a nice person who was trying to understand things from the parent's perspective but, sadly, that is all to often forgotten. And, this is and always has been a BUSINESS first and foremost. When YOU go without income and the parents are "up" income then why is YOUR mortgage payment or YOUR bank account less important than a dcparent's??? ;) Stop being so "nice" and just be a pleasant business person.

To the parent in this situation: Be VERY glad you had a provider who was nice enough to allow you to come on a casual basis for so long and not having had to PAY full-time fees for that schedule. Your provider lost A LOT of money allowing you to attend in that manner. Oh, and "paying on time" does not make you special - it is EXPECTED. Paying your daycare on time is expected just like the bank requires you to pay your mortgage on time or your car payment on time. It doesn't make you a "great" client - it makes you an average client.

Personally, if this were me I would terminate in a heartbeat and get a FT client.

A quick little story for you:

My first client came flex too - for FIVE years. At first they had one child and then another one came along. I did a lot of SPECIAL for that family. In short, for FIVE years I basically held 2 FT spots for them and they attended only an average of 2.5 days a week. At the end of the fifth year when the oldest was about to start school and they wanted a B/A school rate I felt forced to ask them to commit to a minimum payment of $100 a week for their TWO kids regardless of attendance. Well, everything I did over the years and all the money they saved meant nothing and they bolted. In the end, over five years I lost $28,000. Trust me, YOU deserve that $28,000 just as much as ANY client - maybe more so.

[jazmic]

I believe that the client you are talking about (and the one who is posting is mine)

Oooh. The plot thickens.:woot:

[Bugaboo]

Wow. Pick ups and drop offs are sure going to be awkward from now on.

[alreadyhere12]

Oh it does, yes....

And you see, I told her I would be interviewing for her spot a month ago..I didn't just start saying it last week or something....As well I sent her contract home with her the month before that, and gave her a month to sign...

So this BS about me not giving her time... Um no.

[alreadyhere12]

LOL Bugaboo, if she wants to come to this board and try to get others to understand why she doesn't need to pay me for a regular spot ..not that any of ypu took her side, this is what happens; specially when its a forum that I told her to go to because all providers ask for commitment of some sort.

[Momof4]

alreadyhere12 I accepted a casual client when I was new and they were just using sporadic days, sometimes just 1 or 2 a week and I put my food down at the urging of my fellow HDCP's and insisted on 3 days/week minimum. I don't ever want another client like that who is all over the map. I couldn't budget or plan field trips or activities. It was a royal pain. I understand where you are coming from. Can you insist on 3 days/week with this client?

[mustbenuts]

Oh alreadyhere, I like you already.

[dodge__driver11]

why do you like already here must be??

[Crayola kiddies]

Huh dodge ?

[dodge__driver11]

Oh I was asking why mustbenuts liked alreadyhere lol

[mustbenuts]

why do you like already here must be??

I am impressed that she came on here to stand her ground and clarify statements made by her own client. I like her frankness and her business sense. It's kind of nuts that this is even playing out on here but this parent had to know that her provider was on here since the provider is the one who directed her to the site to show here that her policies are not out of the norm.

[Inspired by Reggio]

I am impressed that she came on here to stand her ground and clarify statements made by her own client. I like her frankness and her business sense. It's kind of nuts that this is even playing out on here but this parent had to know that her provider was on here since the provider is the one who directed her to the site to show here that her policies are not out of the norm.

Sadly this is such a common problem in this industry it still could have just been a coincidence ... I know I have seen threads like this over and over on every 'parent' based form where they are more inclined to go vent as they are the majority and we are the minority on those verses coming on a forum geared towards the actual 'providers' where parents only are the minority instead.

[apples and bananas]

I am impressed that she came on here to stand her ground and clarify statements made by her own client. I like her frankness and her business sense. It's kind of nuts that this is even playing out on here but this parent had to know that her provider was on here since the provider is the one who directed her to the site to show here that her policies are not out of the norm.

I have to say I'm not overly impressed by alreadyhere. I respect the idea that someone was speaking about your business and maybe not giving the full story and we all have a natural reaction to defend ourselves. But at the end of the day your business is your business. If I were you I would have read the responses that the very professional group of daycare providers gave her and know that we all supported what you were doing. Sometimes it's better to just watch from a distance and pick up whatever information you can that gives you an advantage.

I have an entire full time space taken up with a part time, casual before and after school. I have thought about replacing time and time again just for the money. However, I took her on and I have found a way to adjust my business to work with her. She will be 10 soon and not in my numbers anymore so I will probably replace at that point. However, if I was in a financial situation where I needed that income I would do exactly as you did. I think you did everything right. It was nice of you to offer her an alternative rather then forcing her FT or hit the road. But you should be content with the desisions you've made and know that we all supported you.

I hope you can retain this client if that's what you choose to do. I'm not so sure I would want to stay with you if I was the client after posting your comments here and not taking me aside privatly.

Just for the record... I completely support your desisions to set a fixed rate for this client. It's something I have not yet been able to bring myself to do for my casual.

[mamabear]

I think alreadyhere had every right come on here and give her side. After all, her client came here FIRST. Personally, I would be done with her. She's been given her choices and still hasn't made a decision. Advertise and get a full timer in there.

[kidlove]

I get that one apples: was just thinking the same thing. Reading this was like watching a soap opera, and YES the plot did thicken as soon as the provider chimed in! uuuug! not sure this relationship will last much longer than this post will linger though, now that the "battle" has been opened up so much. Too bad for both of them now. I think this Mom should move on and so the provider....not sure anything will be the same after this. Understand wanting to tell your side totally, but now that you have? No turning back! Time to move on. :) good luck getting a client that is a better fit already there. and good luck to you Mom, it may be hard but you might be bale to find a provider to better fit your needs.......just be careful..alot of times, cheaper ($) care= cheaper (quality) care

[alreadyhere12]

Kidlove and Apples: I came here to clarify that she was NEVER A CASUAL CLIENT; not to get my own cheering section or garner "I'm sorry's" I am not one to stir things up, but I am very much one who always believes there are two sides to every story.

My client has chosen to stay with me until I find someone to fill her spot or the days she is not here, and she states that she will find a student to watch him at the house or whatnot; frankly it doesn't really bother me. I've done all I can do. Nor does it bother me that some of you think that I overstepped.

It's ok. We are all unique.

[sunnydays]

I think it is great that Alreadyhere came on and gave her side of the story...it clarifies things and obviously she is not afraid to lose this client if it comes to that. I also think it is great htat the mom came on this forum to get the opinions of other providers...I am hopeful that it gave her some insight into why our rules are the way they are and that she now understands that her provider is not different in this regard and is treating her fairly. It is a bit like a soap opera...I had that thought myself, but this is real life...and we all deal with this type of thing all of the time, so I don't see anything wrong with it.