WWYD/ What should I do? Eeks

[Spixie33]

So I have a great group of kids and parents and I have technically two spots open in a few weeks when one of my parents is leaving to go have her second baby. She is taking her two children with her off to maternity land. :)

So I have an acquaintance interested in a spot for February. Nice lady, good family. her daughter would be 13 months old. The only drawback is that she has a daughter from a previous marriage who spends some of the week with her and some of the week with her ex husband so on certain days I would have to have her 9 year old daughter after school also. Obviously she wants both daughters in the same daycare. I would have her youngest daughter 8-4 and her older daughter from 3:10 -4:00 p.m.


Then last week I had one of my best daycare families recommend another family to me. They have an 17 month old daughter. I met with them - great family, great child and great fit.

So....the problem is that I have 2 spots but the 9 year old girl would be with me an hour a day for about 6-10 days a month and on those days I could potentially be at 6 kids in the house depending on when my other parents pick up. (One picks up between 3-4 but not always before 3:10)

So....the question is WWYD. Is it a big deal to possibly have 1 hour of the day where you are over? I just feel in a quandry. It seems crazy to lose either of the full time children just because of 1 hour. I am usually very by the book but I am so confused because I like all these people/kids.

I should also add that the parent of the After school girl and FT girl works for the school board so she has summers off and therefore this possible overlapping issue would only be until June/school end.

[Momof4]

That's a really hard decision you have to make! I would probably take the family with the 17 month old and have my space filled. I have these difficult decisions to make next month because I have too many people wanting my spaces in early 2013 so I know how your mind is going back and forth and back and forth right now. I'm in those shoes too! It's really difficult to decide.

But to tell you the truth, I wouldn't take the chance on being over in numbers ever. I would explain to the parent that I can't take the chance on losing my reputation and my business if anyone were ever to report me as running my daycare illegally, because 5 children is the law in Ontario at least.

Good luck!

[treeholm]

I would tell the family with the 9-year old that I cannot take the 9-year old. If she wants to have her children in the same daycare, then she will look elsewhere and you can fill the spot with the 17-month old and interview for the second spot. She may decide that she can find after school care for the 9 year old. If it is only for an hour a few days a month, I wouldn't imagine that having the children at the same daycare would be a dealbreaker issue.

[Bugaboo]

Personally I would not go over the limit. If you do decide to go over ask yourself how much you need/want your day care business, because that is what you are potentially sacrificing if you get caught or someone reports you. For me, I need my day care business and I want it to succeed. Running a day home is how I balancing working and family. I would not take the risk.

[Spixie33]

I know in my heart what is the right thing to do but I am so bad at making decisions or delivering bad news. I am more of a people pleaser :( Aahhhhhhh. Telling them no because of the 9 year old will also break my heart because I know this 9 yr old quite well and she is a sweetheart. I know she told her mom she only wants to come to my daycare.

When it rains it pours I tell ya.

[Inspired by Reggio]

Oh that is a tough one ~ it seems such a shame to loose out on a potentially awesome family you know because 'on occassion' they need childcare for their older sibling!

IMO this is another perfect example of how while I follow them because I am a rule follower and do not want to risk my business or my kids college fund in the event of an accident by going over ratio .... but I can see how sometimes the rules are just plain frustrating cause well if she was 'yours' you would not have to count her and could have 5 plus all your own but for some magic reason because she is not she would put you 'over ratio' and make you illegal :roll:

Are you in Ontario?

When does she turn 10 cause if you are in Ontario once they are 10 they do not count in ratios according to the DNA although you'd need to check with your insurance company?

Are there are people in your street who have a child the same age ~ would they be willing to help out with some after school play dates on those dates? Or do any of your other clients 'leave early' so that their attendance would not overlap after school? For example I use to have a client who picked up at 3pm so I could have if desired taken on an after school child at that point?

[Mamma_Mia]

Family of the 17mos old will most likely be going on mat leave soon too.....somethingd else to think about.

[BrightEyes]

I wouldn't risk it.

I would tell the family that you can't take the 9yr old at the moment but if they would be ok with finding alternate care for the 9yr old just until she turns 10 then you could take the baby and add the older sibling once she is 10 :)

[kidlove]

is there no way to move some pick up times around a bit in order to fit all children? I have had to do that before and it worked out, just depends on you other kids pick up times. I understand your delema have been there before...I have had kids over by 10-15 minutes due to early drop or late pick ups, IMO, sometimes there is nothing you can do about a over ratio of that nature. NTM you only have this issue until June? here's to hoping you can find a way to swing it! Like you, I too am a people pleaser. 1) by nature and 2)for positive "word of mouth" I always try to say yes, where I can. :)

[sunnydays]

I wouldn't risk it either...what if someone reports you for it? And what about PD days and school breaks? Would they not need full day care for the 9 year old on those days? I would tell them you can't take the 9 year old, but can take the younger one. I am sure they will appreciate the fact that you follow the rules. I do understand the dilemma though...the rules are kind of silly when it comes to these things!

[bright sparks]

So within the Ontario Day Nursery act we can only have 5 children plus our own at one time, and I understand that if theres a little overlap you may consider whether this is a risk worth taking incase you are found out and get in trouble. Each to their own in this scenario, although I do believe their are rules in place for a reason. I also know that in Alberta you are allowed 6 so Its not a factor of whether one more child is to many or not just the individual provinces have different guidelines.

What I want to say that is WAY more important than this rule, is INSURANCE!! There are but a handful(if that) Insurance companies in Ontario who will allow 5 plus your own to be insured so the chances are your 9 year old would not be insured. I flat out say don't do it. If ANYTHING happens, you are screwed. You would be ruined if that parent took legal action, or even slandered your name around your neighbourhood.

[daycaremum]

I would do it. I just would. The extra kid would only be there for 1-2 hours a handful of days per month. Plus the other little kid will be going on mat leave shortly anyways, so it is a short term thing. I would do it. Now if you were talking about being over by 2 or more kids all day every day, then I wouldn't do it.

You see, the threat of being reported means nothing to me. There are tons of 'providers' who are over all the time and are never reported. Also, the ones that I know that have been reported (and a few times too mind you) have been visited and told to let go of some kids and that's it. They are still in business. No fine, no getting closed down. And some continue to take in more than 5 kids.
Also, as far as insurance, I live in a small town, so if something big ever happened that I needed to make an insurance claim for, I would be out of business anyways because word travels fast around here.

And if anyone can prove to me a case of a home childcare worker successfully being sued by a client, I'd like to see that. Now if a kid died or something like that, that's pretty extreme, and your name is mud anyways, forget about being over in numbers and your insurance not covering you for liability. Plus, I think my insurance company would take my word for it that I only had 5 kids at the time. (Since I'd only be over by one for a couple hours)

[mustbenuts]

I know in my heart what is the right thing to do but I am so bad at making decisions or delivering bad news. I am more of a people pleaser :( Aahhhhhhh. Telling them no because of the 9 year old will also break my heart because I know this 9 yr old quite well and she is a sweetheart. I know she told her mom she only wants to come to my daycare.

When it rains it pours I tell ya.
Don't do it just to please the family. You telling them no because it is against the law should actually be seen as a positive by families in your care. Make your decision based on what is best for YOU and your business.

[Spixie33]

Yes I am in Ontario.

The 9 year old will turn 10 in October 2013 :( So she would count in numbers for quite a while.

The mother works in the school so I am not worried about March break, sumerm vacay etc because she has those off. She also said that she would not need PD days.

Believe me I would never even consider this if it wasn't so frustrating because it really comes down to a potential overlap that is possibly a few minutes - 1 hour maximum.

I do have another dck who is picked up between 3 - 4 p.m. so I may ask her parents if it is okay for them to commit closer to 3 from Jan/March - June of next year. I like that suggestion. Of course I can't force them to come earlier but I can implore them. If she was picked up at 3 or 3:15 then I wouldn't even have an issue. It is just that her parents are not consistent and can pick up anywhere between that 3-4 o'clock hour and that is the whole issue. It has never been an issue but now it makes for a fine kettle of fish.

So far I am going ahead and signing a contract this week with the parents of the 17 month old. I am going to keep things on track for the 1 year old for Jan/March too and just stay positive that somehow I can work out the timing. Positive thoughts.

KIDLOVE - Being a people pleaser is not easy. Since one of the families is a good acquaintance that I see OFTEN (the one with the 2 children) and the other is a high and glowing recommendation from one of my fav daycare families - I feel bad saying no to either and then seeing them all the time.

I really wouldn't even consider if it was a full day or a half day but it is a matter of minutes and probably less than an hour on only half a month until June.

In the summer - the mother of the 2 will be off bringing my numbers down and then in Sept I have 2 spots opening when children go off to school so I wouldn't have that issue.

I like the idea that these two young kids would also keep me going in Sept when the others go off to school.

I love all the advice and viewpoints and I think you are all right in your own ways and everyone makes an excellent case. Thanks:p:D

I am just going to play this by ear and take on the one new family first then see what plays out with family 2 and then maybe discuss pick up times with my existing families if it is still an issue. I guess the family with the 2 girls has a couple of more months for things to work out.

[Inspired by Reggio]

Sending you positive vibes that a solution that works for everyone presents itself!

[playfelt]

Many years ago I had an issue with numbers and a complaint to the ministry. When they spoke to me they said it went by contracted hours and if one parent was supposed to come at 3pm but didn't show up till 3:20 that wasn't my problem so I was free to go by the contracted hours of one done at 3 and one starting at 3. Back then of course they weren't so hard by the books and common sense reigned more with the idea of the potential overlap wasn't considered a big deal. Now of course insurance would use that as a loophole for sure.

[kidlove]

In all honesty...I would do it too...IF it was only for a matter of minutes. Me being a people pleaser def comes into play in a situation like this, and like the last poster said, if you are contracted for a specific pick up time and the parent shows up late, putting you over...there is nothing you could do anyway. I would def ask the 3pm pick up parent IF they could try and make it a touch early for the rest of the month or whatever you need and try and accomidate both families. That's just me though......I consider myself to be a pretty big "follow the rules" person, but when it comes to one time emergencies, or a matter of minutes, I am always willing to bend the rules a touch for my clients. That's what keeps them coming back sometimes. I would never go beyond my own personal limits, but I would do it, IF it only put me over for a little part of the day. My honest opinion. Couldn't you ask the late drop parents if they could stretch an extra 15 minutes later drop each day until your numbers go down?