Nasty bitter

[Mommy]

Hey everyone, happy new year.

So I have a 21 month old that wont stop pushing shoving bitting. When I first brought up the pushing and shoving they were in absolute shock that he did that were wanting to do anything to help make him stop. Saying he's never done it before. Lastweek I mentionned how he took my daughter's fingers, all five, put them in his mouth and bite down while she screamed till I yelled his name and said no. His dad says oh yeah we've had huge issue with that and have tried everything except bite him back. I said yes I don't know what else works. Today he bite my four year old son on the chest till he drew blood, and bite my ten month old daughtersfingers again nearly drawing blood. Wht would you ladies do? I'm debating sending him home for the day because of it. Any thoughts?

Thanks in advance

[apples and bananas]

Something like this I almost think of it as if... what would a teacher do at school. He'd probably be sent home.

If he inflicts so much pressure that he breaks skin I would send him home.

I would terminate if it were me. But we're all different, we all have different breaking points. I may try to shadow him for a week and see if that makes a difference, but my job is not to shadow one child. I understand they all go through phases, but, I can not personally handle 3 kids and a biter at the same time. Not in my house.

I'm so sorry you have to deal with this... and the fact that you're not getting the full story from mom and dad makes it worse.

[Mommy]

Thanks apples and bananas, that's my thought. I have been shadowing him since the first incident he always does it like with my son when I was changing a diaper, or with my daughter when I ran to get a diaper for another child. I saw him grab her hand and said his name and no in a stern voice but he did it anyway. I'm getting close to terminating cause I can't have children go home with bloody bite marks. But they were willing to work with me except bite him back to show him it hurts. Ugh

[Bookworm]

If I was you, I would give the parents a set date to see an improvement and if not, then termination.
Also, if he is doing it at times when you can't give him all your attention, then I would put him somewhere where he can't get to the children. So, either put him in a playpen or strap him in a highchair. I had two biters, and this is what I did at any time I couldn't keep my eyes on them and shadow them. It did curb their biting for a while and if they started bitin again once I stopped containing them, then I did the containment for a couple of weeks until they understood that they don't get to have fun because they bite, etc...

Also, whenever they bit, they got seperated from their friends and had a time out while I paid attention to the child who got bit.
I was also up front with the parents that I did this, and they were fine with it.

[Mommy]

Thanks bookworm, I did put him in a time out both times. Its the same with his hitting and shoving he laughs. He thinks it's funny to hurt others. He's a big solid boy and easily pushes my four year olds around.

[Crayola kiddies]

thanks bookworm, i did put him in a time out both times. Its the same with his hitting and shoving he laughs. He thinks it's funny to hurt others. He's a big solid boy and easily pushes my four year olds around.

next......

[playfelt]

He is a bully plain and simple and it does not speak well for the future. Parents rarely realize that they actually end up teaching some of the bad behaviours - due to play fighting, wrestling, teasing, pretending to bite toes or nibble on fingers or nose, cute for a few months not when child is old enough to understand.

I believe in teaching kids to stand up for themselves in the face of bullies - not being the agressor or bully but in not taking it from a bully. That means your son has the right to put out his arms to stop the child from coming near him. When peers start to isolate the child it can be very effective too - you can then help them to see that our friends won't play with us when we are mean.

Call the behaviour mean and tell him we don't be mean to our friends. He needs to know exactly what the no is referring to. You don't say if he is an only child or not. If he is showing the same behaviours directed at his parents and not just peers then for sure you are dealing with a family that needs help. It is something they will need to address since they have more options for discipline than you do.

It also sounds like it wasn't an issue at home - assuming they were telling the truth and now it is. Something has likely changed and he is not happy about it. Finding out what precipitated the start might give clues how to change the behaviours too.

On a should child continue in care is up to you. If you can institute a plan so that he does not have access to any of the other children when you are not right there while you all work through the issue then it might be possible. If there is no improvement even with you and parents working for the next couple of weeks then it is likely time to consider terminating. I say a couple weeks because it gives you time to rule out teething, oral issues and that it is pure behaviour.

[sunnydays]

I have had a couple of biters, one of which started biting very frequently at about 15 months. I worked with his parents on a consistent plan of time-outs and teaching gentle touching. But what helped the most was when we started giving him his soother all day long instead of just at naptime...it was out of desparation as we had tried a teething ring attached to his shirt and that didn't work. Next step would have been termination and parents had been warned, but the soother worked! he only needed it for a couple of weeks and then we weaned him off of it and he rarely bit after that. Having the soother in his mouth prevented him from biting and gave him the oral stimulation he needed. If the child takes a soother at all, I would suggest it. Soothers are not ideal, but better that than having kids go home with bite marks. If the parents are not working on it with you then I would just terminate as it is unlikely to improve.

[Momof4]

I had an angelic looking 2 1/2 year old girl in my daycare in my first year of business but she was the most violent child I've ever seen in my life. The parents said she never behaved that way at home and it must have been me. I tried timeouts but she threw tantrums like you couldn't believe. Thankfully, she was small so I could lift her into a booster chair and I just let her thrash until she was tired.

It was complete insanity. I terminated. Sometimes we have to know when we can't go on. Maybe they can find a caregiver who can control him. Think of your daycare without this child and how happy you will be. Advertise now and replace them.

[sweetiepia]

try giving him somthing to bite into, like styrofoam, that leaves his teeth marks so he can see what happens

try giving him a toy baby to bite into and tell him he is allowed to bite into that

make a game of bitting stuff, hard stuff, soft stuff, cloths etc.....

and the best is to shadow him, hold his hand every single moment, changing a diaper? bring him with you and sit him down while you change the diaper, and casualy tell him, "sweetie, I know this is borring not being able to go play with your friends, but when you stop bitting you'll be able to go"

do this for a week, he will be soooo borred out of his mind of doing nothing all day, he might realise bitting isnt so fun after all!

good luck

[BrightEyes]

The deal breaker for me would be the moment one of the bites broke the skin, drawing blood. In daycare centers when a bite gets that bad the child must go to the hospital for a tetanus shot and the incident is reported to the ministry.

In my home daycare, I would do as some have already mentioned above:

*Give a time-out to the child when the incident happens and give all of the attention to the injured child.
*Put the child in a playpen or high chair when you can't be within arms reach of him.
*go over "what biting is for" (we bite food, not friends etc) but after a few days I would work on forgetting about the "biting", as in don't mention it and work on the positives, praise for good behaviour
*look at your program and see what can be done to keep the child interested, there for distracted for the thought of biting
*have teething rings available

If all of the above has been worked on for a good chunk of time OR blood is drawn, I would terminate.

[Other Mummy]

I think most of us on this forum have dealt with a biter at what time or another. Your biter is very aggressive. Is he verbal? Is he just biting out of absoultely no reason? Drawing blood is very serious.

I had a DCB that started biting at around 22 months. He never drew blood. He also shoved and was aggressive. I had to shadow him for a few weeks, time outs, constant reminders on how to treat friends, etc. It took work, but now he's the sweetest and polite little guy. He is still full energy, but matured. But wow, your biter sounds a lot more aggressive. I would be worried that he might seriously hurt another child. You might lose clients:( You have to think about how much work you want to put yourself in. Think about it. :mellow:

[Skysue]

I had a child start biting as well around the same age, not only was she underdeveloped in speech but after shadowing her for a few days I witnessed what motivated her to bite. She would see a toy and try to take it from a friend if they wouldn't give it up she bit.

I tried different time out methods and the one that became the most effective was setting up a playpen in a separate room and isolating her for her time outs. If they act like there time out is a walk in the park then it's not effective.

My bitter stopped biting in a month and everytime she is triggered I make her give back the toy and apologize. Her bites were pretty bad she even bit another child on the eye.

I got the same from the parents that she didn't show this behavior at home but being an only child who is she going to bite her Mom? Not likely.

It's a hard one if the child is breaking skin especially if your own are being victimized. Do you think be is doing it out of jealousy? He may see the special bond that you have and feel left out. It's tough missing his own Mom all day. Maybe he needs a few extra cuddles, I always give each of my daycare kids some special one on one time. Hugs really could be all her needs.

[Bugaboo]

Biting is a deal breaker for me. Mainly because its a deal breaker for the parents of the child who was Bitten. It's a terrible conversation to have with the "victim's" parents and more often than not they want answers (rightly so) and and some action. My policy on biting is the first time a child bites they are given a letter indicating the incident and that if it occurs again they are terminated immediately (I also have this process outlined in my contract). The second time they bite, they have to go. I don't care if it was two different children. I don't care if it did or did not break the skin. I can not have bitter in care. It could very well cost me other families. I also will not shadow one on one any of my dck's. I have six children to care for and if I am shadowing one intently that means the others are not being well cared for IMO. Unfortunately I think you will need to let this child go. They are a liability and it would really be awful if one of your great family's decided to pull their child because of violent kid in your daycare.

[Mommy]

Wow thanks everyone. Yes this child is an only child. I do give the kids one on one special time. I find with him it does'nt seem to help cause the bitting occurs again. I like the idea of a playpen for a time out. My current time out does not seem to be working well so thank you for that idea. As for shadowing him that will be tough so I may have to do the booster chair often. This child does'nt really play with other children, his parents had told me that. They were hoping being at daycare would help him with that. He is never angry when he does anything aggressive, he just seems to get the idea in his head then attack while smilling and laugh after.

[Skysue]

Biting is a deal breaker for me. Mainly because its a deal breaker for the parents of the child who was Bitten. It's a terrible conversation to have with the "victim's" parents and more often than not they want answers (rightly so) and and some action. My policy on biting is the first time a child bites they are given a letter indicating the incident and that if it occurs again they are terminated immediately (I also have this process outlined in my contract). The second time they bite, they have to go. I don't care if it was two different children. I don't care if it did or did not break the skin. I can not have bitter in care. It could very well cost me other families. I also will not shadow one on one any of my dck's. I have six children to care for and if I am shadowing one intently that means the others are not being well cared for IMO. Unfortunately I think you will need to let this child go. They are a liability and it would really be awful if one of your great family's decided to pull their child because of violent kid in your daycare.

Not to be rude but how do you not have time to shadow a child? What kind of activities are you doing with the other kids that keeps you so engaged as to not be able to watch all of them at the same time? I know it can be a challenge to gear your eyes toward one specifically but is not our jobs to ensure all the kids are getting the best care. A child biting is usually out of some kind of frustration from my experience. I think as effective providers it's our duty to at least try help the child through this experience.

[playfelt]

It isn't the provider that shadows the child it is the child that shadows the provider meaning the provider goes about her normal day and the child must stay within arms reach at all times - sitting just outside the door while she pees, sitting beside the kitchen cabinet while she cooks lunch, standing beside the change table while she changes the baby then goes in a playpen while she goes to put the baby to bed. The child is the one that suffers from not getting to play but must not be given undue attention from being one on one with the adult - ie he/she sits or stands nearby and there is no further interaction while the caregiver goes about her day. A few well placed reminders about how much child is missing out on because they are mean to their friends and then when available child is allowed to play with the adult right there.

[Skysue]

You can't explain this to a 21 month old and if you don't know what is motivating the behavior then how can you correct it. I only shadowed my daycare child until I saw the offense occur. Then I had a better understanding on how to correct the behavior.

Through this method we we're were successful in stopping the behavior.

[apples and bananas]

I had an aggressive child once and I used the playpen for time out as he didn't stay still in my time out. He climbed out of the playpen. LOL I would put him in a booster chair and he'd push against the table, almost pushed the chair over several times. I ended up having to put this 2 year old in a highchair with the 5 point strap on him. That was the only way. He got better... sort of. He's no longer with me.

[Bugaboo]

Not to be rude but how do you not have time to shadow a child? What kind of activities are you doing with the other kids that keeps you so engaged as to not be able to watch all of them at the same time? I know it can be a challenge to gear your eyes toward one specifically but is not our jobs to ensure all the kids are getting the best care. A child biting is usually out of some kind of frustration from my experience. I think as effective providers it's our duty to at least try help the child through this experience.


My understanding of "shadowing" is following one specific child around (in this case the biter) CONSTANTLY. I do not have time to do this because I have six children in care. I am busy prepping meals/snacks, dressing kids to go outside, changing diapers, assisting in the washroom, wiping noses, table activities, story time, circle time, and supervising ALL the kids during free play. So no I will not shadow a biter. And I won't tolerate biters in my day home simply because my parents will not tolerate their children being bitten.

[Skysue]

My understanding of "shadowing" is following one specific child around (in this case the biter) CONSTANTLY. I do not have time to do this because I have six children in care. I am busy prepping meals/snacks, dressing kids to go outside, changing diapers, assisting in the washroom, wiping noses, table activities, story time, circle time, and supervising ALL the kids during free play. So no I will not shadow a biter. And I won't tolerate biters in my day home simply because my parents will not tolerate their children being bitten.

I see your side and yes it is very hard work to do. As I also have 5 kids plus my own. I just chose that method as how else can you find a solution to a problem if you don't see what the motivation is. I know it can be difficult for people to hear that there child was bitten but I have very understanding parents and I am extremely greatful for that. My bitter had also already been with me for a whole year and I'm happy I persevered as she is a very fun loving child.

Cheers

[playfelt]

If biting is happening regularly then it will likely only take 1-2 days of watching the child like a hawk to see what is happening. What you want to do is stay in the background but watch every movement of the child - when he is alone, which child does he seem to try to interact with, which child does he seem to try to move away from. How do the other children react to the biter - sometimes there is actually a child that puts themselves in harms way and teases the biter just to get the child in trouble. Is it a particular toy or activity that causes issues? A particular time of day or just before or after a specific event? This will help weed out issues of hunger, tired, noisy, etc.

[Skysue]

Thanks Playfelt that's exactly what I did. I'm greatful it worked for me. I suppose when I said shadowing I should have elaborated a bit more.

:)

[daycarewhisperer]

I have done home day care for two decades and had one bite incident my first year. I've gone nineteen years without a single bite. I would not keep a biter under any circumstances. I would have terminated this family immediately when I found out the mom lied about the child's behavior at home.

In my setting shadowing would be very expensive. I couldn't make enough money in tuition to cover the adult time.

I don't have biteing because our supervision is very very tight and I don't allow the pre-behaviors that children do before they bite. I also integrate new walkers into our play areas very gradually over a period of months so that they can learn what behaviors we want. I pair up the oldest child with the toddlers in play for months so that the older child can show the toddler what we want.

I have strict rules of play and close/proximal supervision at all times. Here is an article about play rules. With these rules and supervision we have been completely violence free for twenty years: http://www.daycare.com/nannyde/there-is-no-correct-way-to-play-with-any-toy.htm#comment-1422

I promise my parents a violence free child care and I deliver. I take violence and aggression seriously and would have no problem terminating a child or family that didn't have the same expectations. I advertise our violence free program and parents expect that I keep it that way. They would leave if I didn't.