Need advice on how to deal with a 'pee' issue

[MonkeyPrincess]

I need all your expertise on what to do. I care for a 4 year old boy before and after school. Lately he has been peeing on my walls and floor and i am at a loss on what else i should do. Apparently he doesn't have any medical issues that we are aware of, although there are signs that indicate he has ADHD. Mom has spoken to the doctor about this anddoctor will only proceed with testing/therapy when he is 6 next August.

It started about a month ago, when i noticed pee in the garbage can. Both my son (5 yrs old) and DCB denied it was them. I explained how we pee and poo ONLY in the toilet, and explained about germs. I spoke to the mom who apologized and said he has never done this at home or anywhere else and would speak to her son and i promised the same for my son. He told her it wasn't him who peed in the garbage can.

Then I noticed again 2 weeks later, pee on the floor and wall. I spoke to both of them again, and they both said it wasn't them. Then i spoke to each one of them privately about it, and talked about not telling the truth. The DCB denied it was him and my son got upset and swore it wasn't him. I spoke to DCB's mom about it, and she was baffled, she swore he has never done this at home or at the centre he was at previously. Again and she had a chat with him and THEN admitted to her that it was him peeing on the floor. She reiterated the point about pee/poo only in the toilet, never on floors walls etc. She made him apologize to me the next day.

Last week again, there was pee everywhere! On the walls, floor and all over my magazine rack. I had to throw them out, some were not even read. I called both boys in the washroom (to be fair) and we had the chat again. I told them the door had to stay open at all times when they go to the washroom. I spoke to the DCB's mom again and told her that i will be going with him to the washroom for the next few days to make sure he pees in the toilet and that he's not fooling around in there. She thought it was a good idea, she apologized and maintained that he never does this at home. Poor lady, she was embarrassed.

Today was the first day i let DCB go to the washroom by himself. He peed on the floor again, but i only noticed after he was off to school. I will start accompanying him to the washroom again until further notice, but i don't know what else to do. Please suggest what else i can do!

[gcj]

At first I thought it was floor and walls everywhere in your house, but as I read on, I realized that you meant of the bathroom.....right?

Definitely keep the door open when they both go. Maybe have your son only use a different, family bathroom....like if you have one up where the bedrooms are. This will eliminate him from any accusations or questioning. It will ALL be on the dcb...no excuses.

I would also insist that he sits on the toilet...no standing allowed.

And for now, I would absolutely accompany him. He must ask you and go with you. After a certain time, he can earn going alone again, but of course with the door open.

Strange. Good luck! OH! And of course he should be responsible for the clean-up. Although, I'm sure you'll redo it after, but he still needs to understand that he made the mess, he cleans it!

[gramma]

he's old enough to understand and assuming he doesnt do it at home or anywhere else its a behaviour issue. I would be making him wash the walls and floor. of course you'd have to do it yourself as well. If you are in a position to give him up, that would be my next move. Who has time to clean the bathroom floors and walls everyday.

[kidlove]

he goes to school? has mom asked teacher if anything has shown up in the washrooms at school? None the less, sounds to me like he deserves NO privacy and as someone else suggested, he MUST sit to pee as well. If I were you I would find a way to lock the bathroom door if possible and make him ask to use the toilet, then accompany him like a baby, have him sit, push his privates down and go potty, then direct him step by step to flush and wash proper. Sounds like a stinker....I personally would need to take a minute to count my stress level down before approaching a situation like that! I would be furious!

[monkeymama]

Maybe im the odd one out but I would term. At 4 years old that is completely unacceptable. He knows what he is doing is wrong. I dont have the time to hold hands with a child of that age to the bathroom, let alone turn around and sanitize and clean my bathroom every day. No way

[kidlove]

If in the position financially I completely agree with monkeymoma...I would give him one chance to "turn around" first, but if he kept it up or picked up a new destructive/disgusting habit? I would send the family on their way!!!! that is truly disgusting.

[godsgirl]

I had a 4yo who would do that as well. Turns out he would get distracted looking at other things or be in a rush to get back to playing. Every time he went to the bathroom I would have to remind him to focus on what he was doing and then I would go in and check afterwards to make sure that he got it all in the toilet. The other thing that made him pay more attention was the fact that I made him clean up his mess and then afterwards I would make him watch me thoroughly clean the toilet area again explaining that he was a big boy and that it wasn't fair that I had to clean up the bathroom every time he took a pee. It took about 3 times and it hasn't happened in months.

[playfelt]

He would be sitting and supervised from now on while in my bathroom. He doesn't like it too bad. When my son went to kindergarten they had a must sit rule for that reason as there was no one to clean up the sprays and misses. They get distracted. Also they don't tend to hold onto it correctly to keep it down and actually end up causing the spray although not always intentionally. It sounds like it is an only at daycare thing and he may be doing to try and get kicked out so he can go back to where he was. You didn't say how long you have had him or the circumstances for leaving the other place.

I like the idea of allowing your son to use a different bathroom if possible so he is innocent and dcb can't pin the blame on him. Also the not allowed in the bathroom without asking to go. is the few dollars for afterschool worth the extra sanitizing - probably not.

[MonkeyPrincess]

It sounds like it is an only at daycare thing and he may be doing to try and get kicked out so he can go back to where he was. You didn't say how long you have had him or the circumstances for leaving the other place.



I have been watching the boy since Sept 2012, when he started JK. He left the daycare because he was going start school. The daycare centre could not/would not transport him to school, so the parents put him in my care. At the time, i was looking for a part timer, and the opportunity landed in my lap, as a former DC parent recommended me to them.

[mom-in-alberta]

Yikes... I would think that he was doing it by accident, but the fact that he is peeing in a garbage can says otherwise. This seems to be a willfull act. I like the other suggestions; getting your son to use a different washroom, and supervising his activities (although that is kind of crappy for you, now you have to take the time to stand and watch).
If this continued, I would start implementing consequences. Try to get in there as soon as he is done and check. If he made a mess; do whatever you do for discipline (time out, loss of privileges, etc).
That is unacceptable to me. And I am raising boys, so I am used to dealing with a little bit of "pee spray". LoL

[MonkeyPrincess]

he goes to school? has mom asked teacher if anything has shown up in the washrooms at school? None the less, sounds to me like he deserves NO privacy and as someone else suggested, he MUST sit to pee as well. If I were you I would find a way to lock the bathroom door if possible and make him ask to use the toilet, then accompany him like a baby, have him sit, push his privates down and go potty, then direct him step by step to flush and wash proper. Sounds like a stinker....I personally would need to take a minute to count my stress level down before approaching a situation like that! I would be furious!

Great suggestions! Thank you! I have a good sense of smell, and my blood pressure rises when i smell pee....

[MonkeyPrincess]

Maybe im the odd one out but I would term. At 4 years old that is completely unacceptable. He knows what he is doing is wrong. I dont have the time to hold hands with a child of that age to the bathroom, let alone turn around and sanitize and clean my bathroom every day. No way

i am sort of conflicted over this. Swear it to you, today was the first time i considered it. I will most definitely speak with mom again about this today and i will be letting her know that this may be a possibility if the 'pee issue' doesn't cease...of course, this will be after i implement new bathroom practices with this lad, and do the things you have all suggested. If things don't change then yes, i may have to terminate.

[playfelt]

For sure do not let child know that termination is an option. Actually I would just at this point tell mom what the new bathroom rules will be without mentioning termination - that may be why the child is doing so he will continue cause he thinks he is winning. So ask, sit, supervised, etc. Then if issue can not be resolved - like child decides to pee his pants instead then out he goes.

[apples and bananas]

Of course he doesn't do it at home... they NEVER do it at home! :rolleyes:

That sucks that you have a school age child that you can't trust to go to the bathroom alone.

I would start treating him like a toilet training child again. He has to ask to go to the bathroom and you can go with him to make sure he pee's in the toilet. He doesn't get that independance back until he proves he can be a big boy.

I would also tell mom that you just can't have that kind of un sanitary behaviour. You'll give him a few weeks.. days... whichever you prefer... to turn it around and if he can't then he's out.

[Momof4]

Of course he doesn't do it at home... they NEVER do it at home! :rolleyes: .........I would start treating him like a toilet training child again. He has to ask to go to the bathroom and you can go with him to make sure he pee's in the toilet. He doesn't get that independance back until he proves he can be a big boy.

I would also tell mom that you just can't have that kind of un sanitary behaviour. You'll give him a few weeks.. days... whichever you prefer... to turn it around and if he can't then he's out.

I agree and this is exactly what I would do. My son had ADHD and never behaved this way ANYWHERE when he was a child and he was so easily distracted. But he learned cleanliness and manners and that he was expected to use them everywhere at all times. This boy's Mom needs to teach him the same things. Sorry you have to police a boy of that age as if he is a toddler! My 5year old grandson won't even let anybody in the bathroom with him because he likes his privacy so hope that isn't a problem for you.

[MonkeyPrincess]

... My 5year old grandson won't even let anybody in the bathroom with him because he likes his privacy so hope that isn't a problem for you.
No it's not really a problem because i warned him that if he didn't stop peeing on the floors and walls, then he will not be able to go by himself, and i will have to go with him every time. He has not changed his ways, so i follow through on my warning. Yes, it really does suck that i have to police a school age child that should have good washroom habits. Fortunately for me, my son is fine in the bathroom, and my daughter and 18 month DCG are still in diapers, so i can spare 2 minutes to stay with the boy in the washroom. It really sucks that i have to do this but hey, gotta do what i gotta do.

[gcj]

I've been thinking about you. How's it going with your little water-hose pee-er?

[MonkeyPrincess]

I've been thinking about you. How's it going with your little water-hose pee-er?

LOL. Thanks for thinking of me :) I did speak to the mom about the pee issue, as well as a few other things. She didn't have too much time to chat at pick up time, but she did seem genuinely concerned so she asked me to draw up a letter stating all my concerns, which I gave her today. She told me via text had a long chat with her son last night and he says doesn't know why he is peeing on floors and walls. She told me she understands if i want to terminate his care, but i would rather wait to see how he does with the new washroom routine. It's only fair to give him a chance. Provided he does well and stops peeing on the floors, then he can stay. If things don't improve, then i will consider terminating his care.

She is at a loss and i feel for her but I know this is one of many issues that he is going through. She does have an appointment with her doctor to further discuss his probable ADHD and his shift in behaviour. Mom told me there are a few things going on in the homelife and it was like an AHA moment. That's probably what it is that has caused the shift! Anyhow, i will be doing my due diligence and mom is on board.

[gcj]

interesting. I'd give him a chance, too....see how things go.

[playfelt]

At least he is admitting it to the mom so she knows it is happening. The letter will give her something to take to the doctor's appointment to show saying ok we need help now.