Sticking to your handbook rules, a vent

[Stacey55]

Why is it that others who stick to the rules in their handbook can get away with it when I do the parents find alternate care.

I have had this baby in care for a year, he started partime 3 days a week went full time after a couple of months. The contract signed by parent showed his hours as 7:30 to 4:30 little by little he started coming at 7:15 staying till 4:45 then went to 7-5 at which time I reminded them that she had filled out the hours as 7:30-4:30 at which time she stated that she wants to go to the gym in the morning and after work...lol...really?

I told her that I would love to go to the gym too! I also said that those hours are ok but she would have to pay $5 a day extra, she quickly went back to her agreed drop off and pick up times.

Well 1 month later she gave me a notice that she has made alternate arrangements.

So while I really try to stick to the contract, parents take advantage and when I speak up they leave.

I'm like everyone else here, need the income, now I'm down that pay and no bites so far to get a new child. I read here everyday and know about expecting respect from dc parents but it seems that I need them more then they need me. There are way too many daycare homes to choose from so parents can do whatever they want because if I don't like it they move on to the next.

Any suggestions on how to handle these parents?

Thanks!

[gramma]

you really have to pick your battles. i used to operate the same way with contracted times but i found that it ended up just being a source of aggravation when parent who were supposed to pick up at 4:30 came at 4:45 or something. The problem is that i was open till 5:30. I charged everyone the same rate unless they needed later than 5:30 or earlier than my open hours so I decided to continue with one standard rate but no "contracted" hours. most parents stay on the same schedule but it gives them a bit of flexibilty to do what they need as long as they are here by closing time. If you charge by the hour then they should abide by what they have signed up for or have a raise in their fees.

I think in this case you should have clarified that you are charging based on the hours used and if they need more hours, they have to pay for it.

Parents seem to get their back up as soon as we want more money. Most probably feel that they are overpaying to begin with but in my experience something so small as 5$ a day shouldnt be cause to leave without at least having a discussion about it. you may have been able to come to a compromise.Maybe there was something else going on that you weren't aware of.

to be honest I would be happy with 5 pm pick ups but I totally get your point, its the principle. Sadly the child suffers being moved from daycare to daycare and chances are this will happen again.

[sunnydays]

It's sad that there are so many daycare providers out there who will bend over backwards to accommodate parents demands...this makes it harder for the rest of us who refuse to. In the end, it all depends on many factors how flexible you are comfortable being...how much you need the income and how hard it is to fill spots. Also, you may want to think about how you could make your daycare stand out from the others so that parents will want to have their child there enough to follow your rules. For me, I am not willing to let parents take advantage of me....but I will admit that it is easier for me to stick to my policies and principles because I do not have a hard time filling my spots. I do understand that not everyone is so fortunate. Some things you cannot change, such as what other daycares are doing, but perhaps you can find a way to make parents feel they need you more than you need them.

[gramma]

It's sad that there are so many daycare providers out there who will bend over backwards to accommodate parents demands...this makes it harder for the rest of us who refuse to. In the end, it all depends on many factors how flexible you are comfortable being...how much you need the income and how hard it is to fill spots. Also, you may want to think about how you could make your daycare stand out from the others so that parents will want to have their child there enough to follow your rules. For me, I am not willing to let parents take advantage of me....but I will admit that it is easier for me to stick to my policies and principles because I do not have a hard time filling my spots. I do understand that not everyone is so fortunate. Some things you cannot change, such as what other daycares are doing, but perhaps you can find a way to make parents feel they need you more than you need them.

Great points sunnydays. I think that if parents see us waiver on THEIR wants they see us as easy targets to manipulate. bottom line is that its probably easier for them to find a new provider than for us to fill a spot.

[Inspired by Reggio]

Yes that is the tough balance ~ finding what the market can bare for your area in regards to hours, fees and so forth and what you need for your income!

For me to address this issue cause I was open 10.5 hours when I stated and found the same thing ... clients who slowly over time were here longer and longer than they initially said they 'needed' and even though my contract stipulated fees were 'based on a 9 hour day' you were always dealing with the 'reminder' of that fact with those few clients ... so now I am only OPEN 9 hours a day ... so all my clients I choose to attract are basically needing 7:30 - 4:30 care and than if they need care earlier or later it is contracted right from the start at the additional 'fee' which is a strong motivator for families to figure out a way to keep their child within the '9 hours' by having one parent drop off and the other pick up or for the single parents enlisting grandma or someone to help ;)

[playfelt]

This is a good example of having to go with what the norms are for your area. If being open for 10 hours is what others are doing then you will have a harder time attracting people who don't use the 10 hours and certainly not get people who are going to pay extra for it.

A lot of the time I base things on what the hours of everyone else is in the sense of if I am open that early or that late for others then I would be much more willing to be open for this family but talk to her about ok if you want to come earlier in the morning please try to be here as soon as you can at night.

Do you have something specific in your handbook about how many hours of care the daily fee covers ie 9 hours or 10 hours. With a statement about what the fee will be fee for additional time? If you don't then I can see where the mom might have felt she was the one being taken advantage of in the sense of she felt she was paying for a full day of care - ie your open hours and should be able to change her hours as needed.

[Stacey55]

I always ask the parent what hours of care they need, and ask them to write it in their contract. I also state in my handbook that daycare hours include parents work hours plus travelling time to and from work. I don"t think that it is fair for parents to change their hours and add time to those hours without notification, or for going to the gym, grocery shopping etc.

This lady was getting a cheaper rate then my other parents as she was only using 9 hours of care, she was well aware of the higher rate for increased hours, stated clearly in my handbook. My normal hours of care are 10


I have been in the daycare field for many years and have all my bases covered for this reason. My handbook is thorough. I' more upset because she was reminded that she signed on for 9 hours with a reduced rate, then she took it upon herself to increase those hours without consulting me and yet she was surprised when I raised her rates and chose to terminate.

So do you think that I should've sucked it up and not said anything since her hours were under the 10 I offer?

Thank you for your replies.

[Sandbox Sally]

I offer nine hour days. Anything more than that, my fee increases. It is in my contract.

In keeping with the title of this thread, a question to all of you:

Do you enforce your contract rules each and every time? This is why I ask...I bend the rules and don't enforce my late payment/late pickup fees, so long as it's not a habit, and as long as I don't feel taken advantage of. Someone on another forum recently suggested that, because I do not enforce my rules every single time, that I am sending mixed messages to the parents, and that it's MY fault that they pay/pick up late, since I am not enforcing the rules.

My husband agrees. He thinks that I should make the parents pay every single time they are late with fees or for pick up, otherwise they're going to get bent out of shape when I *suddenly* ding them with extra fees, whereas if I enforced it every time, including the first time they are late, they would expect it, and not make a fuss.

What do you all think? What do you all do?

[sunnydays]

Personally, I have never had a late payment, so haven't had to deal with that, but for late pick-up, I have never yet charged a fee. I rarely have parents arrive late, but if they do and it is within 10 minutes and is nto a habit (they have a good excuse and it almost never happens), than I do bend the rule and I don't charge them the fee. If it ever became a regular thing for any parent, I would warn them and then charge late fees. Even though I have bent the rule for parents on a few occassions, it has not become a habit for any of them so far. If there is an accident on the road or a snowstorm etc, I am not going to be strict with the rule.


I offer nine hour days. Anything more than that, my fee increases. It is in my contract.

In keeping with the title of this thread, a question to all of you:

Do you enforce your contract rules each and every time? This is why I ask...I bend the rules and don't enforce my late payment/late pickup fees, so long as it's not a habit, and as long as I don't feel taken advantage of. Someone on another forum recently suggested that, because I do not enforce my rules every single time, that I am sending mixed messages to the parents, and that it's MY fault that they pay/pick up late, since I am not enforcing the rules.

My husband agrees. He thinks that I should make the parents pay every single time they are late with fees or for pick up, otherwise they're going to get bent out of shape when I *suddenly* ding them with extra fees, whereas if I enforced it every time, including the first time they are late, they would expect it, and not make a fuss.

What do you all think? What do you all do?

[Sandbox Sally]

I have parents paying me late all the time. I also have people showing up a half hour late on a regular basis with no apology.

[Stacey55]

I think that I am pretty reasonable and flexible with my dc parents, I have never charged a late fee in all the years I have done daycare. I think most parents are appreciative of my daycare servces. I understand that at times parents are late due to traffic and at times a meeting at work will run late, but I did draw the line this time since the dc parent wanted to go to the gym, that is not work related or traffic related and where did it get me? lost revenue. I feel that she was trying to take advantage.

It's sad because her little guy really loved coming here and would cry when it was time to leave. I hope her other daycare will be a better fit to her gym hours.

Anyway maybe we are too soft, but being hard azzed has it's disadvantages, as I found out.

Have a great day ladies and again thanks for your responses.

[Inspired by Reggio]

.........I should make the parents pay every single time they are late with fees or for pick up, otherwise they're going to get bent out of shape when I *suddenly* ding them with extra fees, whereas if I enforced it every time, including the first time they are late, they would expect it, and not make a fuss.

What do you all think? What do you all do?

I personally would NEVER let anything slide that I know if it became a 'habit' in my program I would become stressed ... aka anything that is my 'deal break' ... late payment of fees, late pick up, not having the proper clothing here, not arriving to care by 9 am and so forth ... if anything like that occurred in my program I would address it right than and there with the client just like I would with a child because I agree that consistent enforcement is KEY to having people treat you the way you want be treated!

IMO clients or adults are no different than children in this respect .... when you do not address poor behavior right away than yes clients start to assume that it is 'allowable' behavior despite the policy that states otherwise and than will get frustrated when you suddenly crack down with the inconsistency of having been 'allowed' to behave like that!

Think of them like children who grow up with inconsistent rules about jumping on the couch for example cause I see that in lots of home so it is something we can all relate to ~ most families have a 'no jumping on furniture' rule ... however in many homes children experience the following .... Monday I was allowed to jump on the couch and you ignored me, Tuesday I was allowed to jump on the couch and you ignored me so why TODAY are you all up in my face about jumping on the couch ~ go away and let me jump on the couch cause it is fun .... promptly followed by a huge tantrum of anger from the child if you do not actually LET them jump on the couch and more than likely next day they will 'try to jump on the couch' hoping it is the day that it gets 'ignored again' ;)

IMO an adult who actually gets pissy about being called on their poor behaviour, even when they know it was wrong, is still in that same childhood mentality of entitlement ~ yes I know it is wrong but you let me do it for so long I feel entitled to do it now cause it worked for Me and so I am going to throw a tantrum when you tell me NO and than I will likely keep 'trying' to ignore that rule in future in hopes it is another day you will 'ignore it' .... however when the child is consistently sent the message we never jump on the couch they eventually stop 'trying' to jump on the couch and accept that yes indeed this is the way things are here ... and this is what needs to happen in your program if you do not want to constantly be dealing with poor client behaviour!

However that said while I do 'address it' right away it does not mean I enforce the 'consquence' of the policy right away .... I also use compassion and common sense as guiding factors as well cause sometimes shit does happen beyond our control that makes us act disrespectfully when that was no our intent!

So I do a 'one reminder' practice with most things in my program if the client honestly 'forgot' and was apologetic and so forth when they realized they'd been disrespectful to something they'd 'agreed to' in their contract ~ when they get the reminder they are told 'if this happens again X will happen' so it is CLEAR the behavior will not be tolerated!

IMO there is no point having a policy in place if you are not going to enforce it consistently and no point in having a policy if there is no 'consequence' for violating the policy cause in the absence of a 'consquence' it is not a policy it is technically just a REQUEST and that leaves it up to the client to choose not to do it ;) .

So for example instilling a late fee for being LATE is not actually a deterrent to preventing clients from 'being late'! In fact for many clients paying the late fee makes them feel 'entitled' to BE LATE whenever they want :(

So unless you LIKE the overtime you need more to the policy than that if you do not want to deal with clients being late, if it stresses you out and causes your family inconvenience on a regular basis you need a 'X strikes your out' policy that makes it clear that repeated 'lateness' will result in termination of the contract and forfeiting of their security deposit and than you need to be prepared to enforce it should they try to push late behavior on you!

[crafty]

I would have done the same thing... up my fees. I am felxible when an emergency happens and whatever and I have never charged late fees ...yet. However too me you were reasonable in your demands. This prent to me seems very selfish. Not by wnating to go to the gym but that fact that thsi person is willing ot pu the stress on her child by changing daycares and routine and all SIMPLY for that fact... Anyway if it was me I would have simply have tried to find some other time to visit the gym or have someone pick up or PAID the fee. I use to have an HOUR commute before I would pick my child up at daycare and NEVER were we late to pick her up and if I did expect to be late because of whatever reason my husband was on standby and my daycare was advised. During this whole year we never picked up late no matter what so... to each is own and that I know but I think you were reasonable.

[Momof4]

Stacey, I think you are better to be rid of this family because a mother who would rather go to the gym morning and night than spend time with her child is selfish. And she is taking advantage of you in the process. Good for you for sticking up for your rights.

Alphagetti, I enforce my late fees all the time but I wouldn't judge you for doing what you feel is best. We shouldn't lecture each other or TELL each other what to do. We are here to support and give advice because we had a certain experience that we can share to try to help. We all run our daycares differently. It's been my experience that if you enforce your late fees once or twice the parents smarten up! I don't like working overtime because I still have 2 sinks full of dishes, floors, laundry, wiping up the bathroom, interviews sometimes, at the end of the day, then get ready for the next day. No, we work long, long days so we should take care of ourselves as best we can.

[kidlove]

I have found, all people are so different, that you can attempt to stick to your contract as much as possible but due to the fact that all are different, I have to be a touch flexible while trying to stay "firm" with some parents. Perfect example, I have a set of parents who at least twice a month, pay late...I will send a reminder on the last day payment is accepted and they will run to their computer and send payment immediately...the way I see it, is...if they pay right away after reminder, everything is ok. Some of you may view that as grounds for a late fee...these particular parents are great people and I have had their kids for over 3 years, I pick my battles..they do pay me each week, but not usually until after a reminder. I consider that situation to be a battle I choose not to fight, they do pay when I remind so I have come to the realization that I will need to remind as long as they are in care, it's not worth hard feelings or termination. I also have a set of parents who will always drop off late and pick up late even if it's by 10-15 minutes....they are not timely people....I remind on occasion and will sometimes give a late fee to get things back on track, but again.....I pick my battles and that too is one I don't always want to fight, I also have had their kids for about 3 years and they a great people.

[mom-in-alberta]

I agree with kidlove... you need to know where your "hard line" is.
I have the parents write into the contract their expected hours of care. If someone tells me 6:45-4:00, and shows up once at 4:15, I am willing to let sleeping dogs lie. Should it become a habit, I would ask "I have noticed pick-up has been a little later, do you anticipate that being a permanent thing?". As long as it is within my hours, and I am aware, then fine. But the day that they show up at 4:45 (15 min after close), with not a word of explanation, that would be it. I would remind them of my hours, and ask that it not happen again. The next time it did? Late fee, absolutely.
Having said that, I have a family returning from mat leave next month, that I will be staying "open" for an extra 15 min, the 2 days a week that they are here. I offered that, because I changed my hours in the year that they have been away. They are a later drop off, and I know that if I needed the kids picked up earlier, I just have to ask mom. She is a parent worth keeping around, and has become a friend, in addition.

[mom-in-alberta]

Oh, and to add to that.... I know it's hard, but try to be grateful that parent is gone. Do you really want to work with someone who puts a greater value on going to the gym (I understand once a day, but TWICE?) over spending time with her child? Or a parent that clearly did not value your time, or your policies?
Good riddance!!

[Fearlessbaby]

Yes that is the tough balance ~ finding what the market can bare for your area in regards to hours, fees and so forth and what you need for your income!

For me to address this issue cause I was open 10.5 hours when I stated and found the same thing ... clients who slowly over time were here longer and longer than they initially said they 'needed' and even though my contract stipulated fees were 'based on a 9 hour day' you were always dealing with the 'reminder' of that fact with those few clients ... so now I am only OPEN 9 hours a day ... so all my clients I choose to attract are basically needing 7:30 - 4:30 care and than if they need care earlier or later it is contracted right from the start at the additional 'fee' which is a strong motivator for families to figure out a way to keep their child within the '9 hours' by having one parent drop off and the other pick up or for the single parents enlisting grandma or someone to help ;)

Something to think about b4 I open- I now have 10.5 hours stated on my contract (7:30-6) but if parents are going to try and take advantage of me and keep their kids there all day, I may have to rethink my stated hours and change it to 5:30pm. The last thing I want is a power struggle with parents- I think we all just want to be respected,,,, I think Stacy55 was right to stick to her guns- we can't let parents walk all over us- what we do is the most important job in the world and parents better respect our time!

[Fearlessbaby]

Why not suggest paying with post-dated cheques for those parents who pay late?

[Sandbox Sally]

I hate cheques. I don't accept them as payment any more. I never set foot inside a bank. With the daycare, three school aged kids of my own and extracurriculars, I just don't want another weekly errand, you know?

My issue is less about parents picking up late and more about them paying me a day or two late, as if I am an afterthought. I have groceries to buy, and bills to pay, and if I don't have that money, I can't do these things. The grocery thing - I am supposed to be paid on Fridays by 6pm, and often there will be a parent or two who have to be reminded on Sunday night. Now, my grocery shopping money is in my account on Sunday night or Monday morning, and with four/five daycare kids, who has time to shop during the week?

So, the problem is, parents don't seem to take my pay seriously. As I've said before, I am sure they pay their other bills on time, because they have a penalty if they don't.

[kidlove]

alpha, I did have issues with one parent not paying on time and suggested she have an auto deduct from her paycheck every payday! she was thrilled due to the fact that she didn't have to remember to pay anymore, I was thrilled to get paid on time every payday! ;)

[3belles]

Personally I have an opening and closing time for my daycare, and I stick to it. I don't have different hours, for different families. That said, of course they don't come at the exact same time, but if they were outside of their regular drop off time, but still within my hours, I don't find it a big deal.

If I had part-timers that by coming outside of scheduled ours, overlapped with each other, that would be a different story.

[Wonderwiper]

I would have to say that if bending yournown rules gets your goat then you have to stop doing it. The parents are not annoyed when they break the rules so it really only affects you.

I am open for 10 hours and don't care if you use 1 hour or all 10, you pay me the same.

I guess I am like sunnydays in that I can be very picky in terms of who I accept into my daycare. I am in a huge subdivision saturated with daycares and am full. I make it very clear in interviews that I am interviewing them just as much as they are me. I think that makes them take me seriously and people respect those who respect themselves.

I don't think you need to have a ton of rules. I have very basic expectations, most of which involve common respect and decency.

[daycaremum]

I think you did exactly what you should have done. You made her follow the rules that all your other families follow. She complied until she could find other arrangements with rules she liked better. That's all it is. It's nothing personal, she wanted to save money or have someone that would do whatever she wanted without being charged or questioned. I'm sorry you have lost income, but clients who don't want to follow the rules that are the same for all clients need to go elsewhere. Good riddance and good for you for standing up for yourself. You will eventually find another family that signs on and follows your policies without argument.

[playfelt]

I get that going to the gym is not work related but in a sense the parent is being punished for honesty. She could have lied and said she had to start working a half hour later on Tues and Thursday and therefore needed to ammend her contract accordingly. If she was still within the allowable hours of the daycare then all would have been well. But being honest saying she wanted to go the gym and needed to ammend her contract became the issue.

When there is a change in need the contract can be revisited by both parties with 2-4 weeks notice of the change depending on what you have written in. So parent for whatever reason can ask for an increase in hours of care and you can agree, not agree and tear up contract letting them move on to a caregiver that will accept their needs or offer a compromise of more hours for more fees or whatever. Not sure if the problem was what the parent wanted the extra time for ie the gym or if it was that the parent wanted to now move to a full day and was not willing to pay the full day rate.

That is one of the reasons my parents pay by the space and may use up to 10 hours of care so if you are lucky enough to be able to work through lunch and go to the gym and still get back to my house within 10 hours then fine - but after 10 the late fee kicks in and this is where my discretion comes in.This parent woud be charged overtime but the parent that works an hour away commute that faces heavy traffic and accidents and is late wouldn't be charged as in one had options and the other didn't.

[Jenny]

I personally prefer that people come for contracted hours versus when then want for however they want for two reasons, 1. Some families will take advantage and will come for the while time, that's fine for some providers but not me. And 2. If we're out and about or in the middle of an activity who's to say they won't pop in and out whoever they want, and even if they do provide notice, it's still a pain in the butt for scheduling activities and activities.
If they go over there time they pay late fees. If they want different hours they provide two weeks notice.

[5 Little Monkeys]

I am open from 730/745-5. I ask what hours they need care for and not to leave their child here any longer than needed. They are pretty good about letting me know if the hours need to change for the day or if a different parent is picking up (seems to be that all the dads work later shifts so if dad is picking up for whatever reason, its a later pick up) I don't charge a late fee until after 5 though but have only had to charge it a few times and it was all to one family.