Need More Advice. Would This Bother You?

[Sandbox Sally]

Great advice, everyone. Thank you so much. :)

[BlueRose]

If your family is asking you to terminate, then its not you. I would find a replacement them terminate. As for a notice just say something like:

After a great deal of consideration I have decided that my daycare is not the best fix for xxxxxxx.
Xxxxxx's last day of care will be _______________. I wish you the best of luck finding a more suite daycare.


I don't think you need to go into much detail.

[Skysue]

Just based on his comment, it clearly shows his lack of respect for you. I would terminate and be honest. Just tell them that respect is paramount for your working relationship and they already have 2 strikes so early on and you have your reputation to uphold.

Trust me red flags are all around you will feel the weight of the world off your shoulders when there gone.


Good luck!

[daycarewhisperer]

Dear parents,

Due to your 11 month old crying at drop off, I'm unable to continue to provide care for your children. This notice is immediately in affect for your 11 month old and a two weeks notice for your 3 year old. If you choose not to use the notice for your 3 year old all advance payments will gladly be refunded.

[Spixie33]

It sounds like you want to terminate....I would say something or write something along the lines of

"It is not an easy decision but I am very concerned that Susie is not settling into our daycare or into our group the way I had hoped so I think it would be best for everyone if we discontinue our daycare arrangement. I have concerns that she will not be happy or thrive in this group and it is causing the other children some unrest when they see her upset. Ideally, I want everyone to have the best possible environment to come to every day and I feel like this is not a good fit. I would suggest an end date of ________."

I don't think the father's comment is that rude or that your comment was that bad. I think he was probably thinking out loud or just concerned about his little girl.
And I can feel your pain - there isn't really a good answer to that. I also think you are right about why she cries. She probably thinks of alphagetti as the mean person who takes her away from her parents every day.

I hope your day gets better from here on in :)

[cfred]

That was a pretty mean thing for him to say, though I can understand where he's coming from. For a parent, who isn't familiar with this business and the stages of transition, as we are, I would imagine it can be quite distressing to see your child flipping out at the sight of her provider. That being said, it's totally not you! I've seen it sooooo many times, as have you. My nephew attends my daycare now and has been since June. For the first couple weeks, it was tough, with him crying quite a lot. At one point, as soon as he saw my house, he'd just lose the plot entirely. And this is my own nephew! He loves me and I know he does and is completely fine now...hardly says goodbye to my sister. But it certainly upset her to see him so upset. I know she was wondering what was up, but she trusted me when I said it was completely normal and it would pass.....which it did. Now he often cries when he's forced to leave :)

I think the letter Bluerose posted is perfect. But replace them first if you have time. It may be that they're thinking of pulling anyway, so try to beat them to the punch and save a few bucks.

Good luck!

[mom-in-alberta]

Clearly, it isn't just you... Your family is feeling the same thing about this family. I think it's time to say goodbye. Life is too short to *dread* the days that they come. They have been coming (well, the older child) for a few months now, so it should be getting better. Doesn't sound like it is, though.
I do think that he was rude. Of course, he is concerned. But there is a better way to express it. And way to go, Mom. Just make excuses for your a-hole of a husband!! There is NO reason to be mean to the person who cares for HIS babies.
Depending on the tonality, maybe you were snarky back. It might have come off as more of a joke, though, too. Hard to say. I don't blame you either way. Drop off in the morning stresses me out. I am getting my kids out the door, and dealing with sleepy dck coming in at the same time. I am not at my best, in all honesty.

[Momof4]

So sorry you are in turmoil Alphagetti. I just terminated a family last month after trying and trying, issue after issue and it was the hardest thing I've ever had to do and it was a difficult decision to make. Like your situation it wasn't wham - you're outta here, it was a whole lot of grey area type things. But I interviewed a wonderful family, signed them on, then terminated the old family so I was covered. But the old family did NOT take it well at all but they didn't return for the 2 weeks notice I offered as per my contract. That was good.

You know what? We are happy and content and the daycare has a whole new feeling without that child here. Is it me? I don't think so because all the children are happier too. Is it you? Does it matter? No, not if your children can pick up on all the stress. We deserve to be happy and we always have to be fair and honest but when parents don't GET IT we're bashing our head on the wall.

Bluerose & Spixie wrote good letters. Keep it short and business like and don't explain or get into anything emotional. Good luck.

[Sandbox Sally]

Thanks everyone :)

[Wonderwiper]

Alpha......he KICKED you. Done. Now. No notice, call that Mom and get them out of your house!!!!!

[BlueRose]

Alpha......he KICKED you. Done. Now. No notice, call that Mom and get them out of your house!!!!!

I agree, get rid of them NOW.

[monkeymama]

that is completely unacceptable!!!! i would call the parents immediately....it is their choice to ignore this child's behavior but NO WAY would i allow a child to physically assault me in my own home! did any of the other dck witness that? that is just awful.....

[Bookworm]

I feel for you Alpha. However, if you want to terminate, but feel you only have "little" things that have added up, yet you feel they are not enough to terminate...well, I think today's behaviour has given you your out!!
I assume you have a no violence policy in your contract?
He hit a toddler
He kicked you in the stomach
He tackled his toddler sister onto the floor
Enough said. His behaviour is "violent" and is grounds for immediate termination for the sake of others in care. If you want to give them notice, then do so, but honestly, it will not get better, and you will feel sooo much better once he is gone.

Hugs to you! Here is hoping you find the strength to do what I think you really want to do!

[Crayola kiddies]

Maybe get a letter ready for pick up outlining todays issues and give them two weeks to get his behaviour under control or they will get their notice. OR wait till after your interview and then if your take this new family on just give them notice and tell them after much reflection you have decided that due to current behavioural issues the family needs to secure new daycare arrangements for their children and the last day of available care will be xxxxx.

[sunnydays]

Alpha....I feel your pain!!!!!!!!!!!! I am going through this EXACTLY right now! I am terminating my problem child tomorrow. I have dealt with his bad behaviour since September. Like you, I feel like it is my fault for not having kicked him out in the first month...but I thought if I just kept working on it, kept trying different strategies, gave him enough positive reinforcement, enough time-outs, enough communication with his parents...I thought he might improve. Well, exactly like you, last week the mom tells me she has no idea what kind of behaviour issues I am concerned about because he is good for her....that same day she had left my house with 2.5 year old kicking her, screaming and hitting her...and this is a regular thing. He screams "no" at her, at me, at the other kids...tackles them to the ground countless times a day, etc etc and she thinks this is all fine and normal. That is when I realized there is no hope. If she finds that it is fine for her child to hit her, push her, kick her and shout at her, then this is not the place for her child. Your parent is probably the same...thinks this is normal behaviour. I say TERMINATE! I cannot wait for this child to be gone and to actually enjoy doing daycare again. Right now I dread waking up in the morning and I feel my blood pressure rise when this child's mom rings the bell in the morning. I am at my breaking point and it sounds like you are too. Lay it on the line. Tell her the behaviours that are not acceptable to you and that you cannot continue to provide care for her kids. At this point, for me, no amount of money is worth this stress :(

[cfred]

I'm with Wonderwiper. He's officially moved into the realm of being a threat to the other children, and you for that matter. Gone. No notice, no waiting to fill the spot. That's a liability waiting to happen. It would be terrible to lose one of your golden clients because of issues with this boy. Of course, that's just my opinion. I'm sorry you're having such a hard time with this child. Your job should not find you in tears because of the stress of dealing with a small child.

I have never, ever had a daycare child hit or kick me....ever! I see them do it to their parents, but never me. When that balance of authority is thrown out of whack, it's time to end the relationship.

[Sandbox Sally]

sunny, the part in your post that stood out most was,


I cannot wait for this child to be gone and to actually enjoy doing daycare again. Right now I dread waking up in the morning and I feel my blood pressure rise when this child's mom rings the bell in the morning.

I hate my job while they are here, and I dread them coming. :9

I am going to terminate. Thank you very much, everyone.

[sunnydays]

This is exactly why I am letting my problem child go finally. It is not fair to the other kids and I am beginning to worry that other parents are concerned and I love all my other families and do not want to lose them!



I'm with Wonderwiper. He's officially moved into the realm of being a threat to the other children, and you for that matter. Gone. No notice, no waiting to fill the spot. That's a liability waiting to happen. It would be terrible to lose one of your golden clients because of issues with this boy. Of course, that's just my opinion. I'm sorry you're having such a hard time with this child. Your job should not find you in tears because of the stress of dealing with a small child.

[sunnydays]

Yay Alpha! Go girl go! I feel more empowered knowing I am not alone. No chickening out now! I hope to hear back from you next week and hear how wonderful life is without them ;)



sunny, the part in your post that stood out most was,



I hate my job while they are here, and I dread them coming. :9

I am going to terminate. Thank you very much, everyone.

[Skysue]

Hugs Alpha been in your shoes and it sucks. You will feel so much better tonight after its been done. Sending a virtual bottle of wine to you!

[Momof4]

What did you say to them? "due to a buncha little stuff, I'm tossing you"? That's what I basically feel like I have to say to them at this point.

I am resurrecting this thread, because I am having the DAY FROM HELL with the siblings today. I actually cried this morning, it was that awful. My other dcb even said to me, "why don't you tell their mom that they can't come here any more?". He's FIVE lol.

We've had four separate incidents just this morning. In the course of these incidents, dcb has

-hit a 19 mo in the back of the head with a toy
-kicked me in the stomach
-screamed in my face
-grabbed his baby sister around the waist and tackled her to the ground
-yelled NO several times at me
-refused to come in from outdoor play

I am ripping my hair out here. I have an interview on Monday morning with a family who are looking for full time care for their two kids (school age), and if I like them and they like me, I am terminating. This morning, mom said again that she had no idea why he acts like this with me, because he's never tried to hit her or kick her. I've seen him hit AND kick her at pick up. So, there's also that...

Kick me in the butt, fellow dcp's! I have to let this family go, and I am so chicken to do it. :crying:

Holy crap, that is not GREY AREAS, that is violence and according to my contract, grounds for immediate termination without any problems. I had problems terminating my problem family because it wasn't anything as cut and dried as blatant violence. Oh Alphagetti, I hope you have terminated by now!

[Artsand crafts]

I have been in your shoes and chickened out as well. You will see the light after the tunnel when they are gone :p. Go girl!!

[Sandbox Sally]

thanks everyone

[Bookworm]

Unfortunately, your decision to terminate is a business decision that NEEDS to be made for your own health.
Who knows how long it will take things to settle down at home. I mean, they may need to play with her dosage etc... and although she is now on meds, that doesn't always fix bad habits/behaviour that they are doing at home to make it stressful etc. (Do you know what I mean?)
I'm not suggesting that we should not take this stuff into account, however, the fact that they were able to bring you to tears yesterday, shows just how stressed out you are with them here. I would not think you heartless at all if you went through with the termination.
If it would make you feel better why don't you set up a timeline for improvement and get mom on board, that way you gave them another chance, but with a definitive amount of time to see improvement.

[Skysue]

I would have another chat with her and let her know that you understand her stresses and that you have been doing everything in your power to make things work. With that said though she and her husband need to be on the same page or it just won't work.

Give them a time line if you want or give them a months notice. You have clearly already made up your mind, her life stresses are not yours to work out.

Don't let her guilt you into keeping her children.

I was in your situation and I ended up recommending Montessori school for the oldest and I kept the baby in my care. That older child clearly needs a fully structured environment with peers not younger children to bully.

[ladyjbug]

I personally would find it easier to terminate after this. First of all, where was the meds explanation when they were telling you it was ALL YOUR FAULT and the kid never acts this way with them? Where was the meds explanation when the Dad said, "No, it's you, the baby is fine with the grandparents". Now that tack is not working for them anymore, so they are going the sympathy route. This kid could seriously hurt your business. He could seriously hurt you or the other children. He could hurt your reputation and cost you clients. Just say "I'm sorry for all the trouble you are going through. However, I have given more than enough time to try and work things out and XX and YY are just not good fits here. In a group care situation I have to think of the well-being of all the children and therefore your termination is effective this date."

If you feel generous, give them the two weeks. I personally would not give them two weeks. First of all, that is two weeks that the kid could hurt someone and then you have more parents involved and it hurts your business. Second, due to the accusatory nature of both parents, I wouldn't put it past them to get even nastier during the notice and try to ruin things for you. I would just take the loss, emphasize that his behavior is SUCH A RISK that he cannot be welcomed back and be done with them today.

Just my two cents.

[Sandbox Sally]

ladyjbug, I liked your wording. Thank you. I appreciate this advice, and all the advice from everyone else.

[Crayola kiddies]

Lady j makes a good point !!

[Bookworm]

Don't feel like an a$%! You are doing the right thing!!!
Do something to treat yourself this weekend after the horrible week you have been through!!!

[ladyjbug]

Don't feel bad. They are doing what works for them and trying to keep care as long as they can. I get that to some degree, but in the same vein, you should not feel bad about doing what works for you. I have had a nasty termination in the past with people just like this. They did get very angry and showed their true colors when I did it and I spent a lot of time doubting that I did the right thing, even though they were very clearly in the wrong and the kids were a threat to my business. The first day I didn't have to dread those kids on my doorstep was the greatest, most stress-free day I can remember. The group dynamic changed and I loved my job again. Good for you for terminating. We are all here for you.

[Skysue]

I totally forgot about there rude comments about baby crying and that there oldest never acts out at home. Don't feel like an a$$ for being an amazing caring person. What a beautiful quality to have but it's time to say no more bullying to these parents.

Good luck with the termination.

[Sandbox Sally]

thanks everyone

[Sandbox Sally]

thanks everyone

[BlueRose]

I would reimburse the money for next week, but not the deposit.

"After a great deal of consideration I have decided that my daycare is not the best fix for xxxxxxx and xxxxxxx. Due to the disrespect I have received from both Mrs xxxx and Mr. xxxx termination will be in effect immediately.

A check covering your next weeks payment will be mailed to you by xxx date. (send it registered). Your tax receipt will be mailed to you by the end of February 2014."


Have all their things ready at pick up.

[Bookworm]

If hes not going to be there next week, I would refund the money.
As for the baby, I would just cite termination as not fitting in to the daycare. I'm sure someone can help you word this better, but I would put that dcb is terminated effective immediately due to the safety of the others, and that the baby is terminated with the usual two week period and the last day will be XXX. If they want to pull the baby out immediately, then they forfeit their deposit for that as well.

Reading what Blue Rose wrote above me is perfect. I would use that.

[Sandbox Sally]

Thanks all. I am going to edit now, as I know mom comes to this site.

[Wonderwiper]

Alpha, no one has ever been an ass for protecting their own safety and mental health. This family is simply not a good fit and has to move on.

[Sandbox Sally]

So I term the dcb immediately, and reimburse fees for next week, but give notice for dcg, and allow her to come the next three weeks, yes? One more thing - the dad intimidates me. He's very rude, and last time I enforced something, he refused to talk to me, and just shouted at his son, "Let's go, x, come on!" when I tried to chat with him. I'm nervous for him dropping off and picking up after I terminate. :crying:

[jazmic]

Don't be nervous. Be cordial and ignore any rudeness. Let him be the jerk who takes the low road.

[Sandbox Sally]

I wonder if I could ask that only mom does drop off and pick up until termination period is finished.

[ladyjbug]

If you are giving notice for the DCG, then you must write in the termination letter your expectations. Such as, ANY DISRESPECT ON THE PART OF THE PARENT or breaking of your policies during the notice period will result in an IMMEDIATE TERMINATION with no refund of fees. I would also make sure you have someone there. If you have a husband, maybe make sure he is there, or a neighbor. I find bully parents have a harder time acting that way when there are witnesses.

[ladyjbug]

I wonder if I could ask that only mom does drop off and pick up until termination period is finished.

I did for one of my terminations. It lasted for two days before they pulled, but I did not refund fees.

[Sandbox Sally]

I only have my 13 yo dd to stand with me, but I mean I don't want her intimidated by this jerk, too! Dh is gone to work well before dcg will come.

[BlueRose]

You have the right to refuse a parent from entering your home if they make you uncomfortable. Just like you have the right to refuse anyone else in your home if they make you feel uncomfortable.

[sunnydays]

Alpha, I don't know what your contract says about termination, but I wonder why you are giving a notice period for the baby? Why not make it all effective immediately for both kids? If the parents have been rude and the baby is not adjusting the the boy is violent, you have grounds to make it immediate. Personally, I have that right in my contract and I am making my termination tonight effective immediately. There is no way I am going to put myself through another 2 weeks of this stress during which time things are only going to get worse as the parents will either be nasty or try to talk me out of my decision. I am refunding next week's fees (my vacation) as well as the deposit. I always like to take the high road on these things. I just want him gone.

[Sandbox Sally]

The reason is pure and simple - I can't afford to refund both of their fees as well as both deposits. I have nobody to replace them yet (although I have interviews in place), and I'm going to need those deposits to cover the gap in my income for the next little while. :( I'd love to be shut of them as of tonight, but my budget will not allow that.

[sunnydays]

Aww that sucks Alpha..I feel for you! I hope you fill the spots really quickly :)

[Sandbox Sally]

Ok, how's this?
March 22nd, 2013

Dear MOM AND DAD,

After a great deal of consideration I have decided that my daycare is not the best fit for BOY and GIRL. I have to do what is best for my business, my family, and my own emotional well-being.

I am forced to terminate care for BOY effective immediately, as his violent outbursts are endangering the other children, and I am very uncomfortable putting them in harm’s way. In the past two weeks, he has purposefully physically injured another child five times, and has injured me twice. Please understand the severity of this behaviour, and the implication it brings to my business. As per our signed contract, I am exercising the agreement of immediate termination, citing danger to others. Your deposit will not be returned to you for BOY, as I will have to try and fill his spot, and cannot in good conscience welcome him back into my home for the next several weeks. A check covering next week’s payment for BOY is enclosed.

I will continue to accept GIRL into care for the duration of fees paid, which means that her last day will be Thursday, April 11th, 2013. I further ask that ALL drop off and pick up for GIRL is performed only by MOM, as in the past, I have found DAD’s behaviour both physically and emotionally intimidating.

Thank you for the opportunity to provide care for your family, and I wish you very well in the future.

Kindest Regards,

ALPHA

[monkeymama]

I think the letter sounds great...but do you think they willl continue to send dcg? have you already been paid for the next two weeks? i think you are making the right decision, but be prepared after you give them that you probably wont see either child again.

[Sandbox Sally]

They pay two weeks at a time, instead of the usual one week. I ask for fees in advance, so they have their DD paid for three weeks.

The more I am thinking about this, the more I think I should really just suck it up and allow them to both attend next week. I'll just have to be all over him to ensure he doesn't hurt anyone.

UGH. I don't know. Should I just try to find money to pay the deposit back for the baby?

[sunnydays]

Well Alpha, it depends on how bad your money situation is and how bad the stress level is right now. I am at the point at which I would gladly put the deposit money on my visa if I have to, just to be rid of this stress :( But, maybe you are not at that point and you can hang in there or you absolutely have to in terms of money. It is a balance, but I just feel like my own health and the safety of the other kids is more important than the money.

[ladyjbug]

What reasons in your contract are sufficient for immediate termination? Accusatory and/or disrespectful behavior on the part of the daycare parents is in mine. Do you have anything like that?

I honestly would dig deep and do a month on my credit card or something than keep these people. I would rather eat peanut butter sandwiches all month and cut off my cable. I would hold a bottle drive and find some way to make the money back, but I would not let these people back.

[Sandbox Sally]

Well, that's that. After nap, he hit another dck in the back of the head with a wooden car. I called his mother on the spot and said, "Come and get BOY. I'm done". She just said, ok.

Both mom and dad showed up. They were actually both really apologetic, and she even hugged me, and said she understood. I told her I would call her tomorrow, and we'd work out the details. She agreed. I think at this point, I will let the baby come back and end out her notice, but dcb won't be welcomed back, and they already know this.

PHEW!!! Thanks for all the support. It was rough, and not done at all the way I wanted, but in the end, it was like ripping off a bandage. I can now relax and have a good weekend.

[sunnydays]

I am sooooooo happy for you Alpha! My dcb is gone now too :) I haven't actually given them my termination letter, but it will be emailed this evening and he will not be coming back. It will probably not sink in until after my vacation next week that I do not have to deal with this stress anymore. I am so glad you terminated. No amount of money is worth dealing with that. Good luck with the rest of the details and have yourself a glass or a bottle of wine (I am done for the day now and about to pour myself one LOL).



Well, that's that. After nap, he hit another dck in the back of the head with a wooden car. I called his mother on the spot and said, "Come and get BOY. I'm done". She just said, ok.

Both mom and dad showed up. They were actually both really apologetic, and she even hugged me, and said she understood. I told her I would call her tomorrow, and we'd work out the details. She agreed. I think at this point, I will let the baby come back and end out her notice, but dcb won't be welcomed back, and they already know this.

PHEW!!! Thanks for all the support. It was rough, and not done at all the way I wanted, but in the end, it was like ripping off a bandage. I can now relax and have a good weekend.

[jazmic]

Good job! :)

[Sandbox Sally]

thanks, sunny, and congrats to you, too! What a great feeling, huh?

I still have two kids here until 5:30, but that glass of wine sounds great!

[crafty]

Happy for you Alpha ! Cheers !! :D