Full out tantrum: Consequence?

[Dreamalittledream]

With an all out kicking (me or anyone else who comes near), screaming, crying tantrum what works best for you in terms of consequence? This DCG I have had since she was 11 months old and at 2 1/2 has just started with the attitude and flair for the dramatic I saw with her older sisters at that age. Currently, if I see the tantrum start I move her to the time out chair immediately. She is welcome to come off as soon as she cools down. But, I feel by acknowledging her behavior (albeit negatively) I am escalating it. Should I just ignore? Anything else work best for you?

[Judy Trickett]

Um...kicking? Oh, hell no! Any kid who is purposely hurting anyone, including me is GONE. I can not even imagine a kid who has been in my care a year and a half ever acting in this manner. A kid here would know better than to EVER kick me.

[cfred]

I'm not sure about that. It'd be a shame to get rid of a child who's been with you so long so quickly. Often I think kids just try to push boundaries and see how far they can go. With serious consequences, chances are good that she'll know you mean business and perhaps won't keep up the behaviour. Personally, my time outs are in a booster chair (same as we use for lunch), facing a wall and away from the other children. Kids are locked into the chair by the tray and cannot decide for themselves when time out is over. And though my ECE training pushes the 1 minute per year of age for time outs, I call BS. Nope....a serious offence like physically harming someone deliberately calls for really feeling the pain. Minimum of 5 mins. Maybe I'm mean, but in my experience, it's stopped behaviour like that in it's tracks. At the end of the time out, I usually try (with older kids) to talk about the feelings they're having and help them come up with other ways to express those feelings that make the bad behaviours come out. She may just be so overcome with 'feelings' that she lashes out. I had a little guy who was like that and we worked on a breathing technique/game that helped immensely. His mom even started using it with her more aggressive children at the school she worked in.

Getting the kid out of the daycare doesn't really rectify any problems. It just pushes it in someone else's direction while the child doesn't actually learn anything. This could just be a blip that can be easily sorted out. My nephew used to hit/kick his mom frequently. He tried it with me ONCE....done. Never a problem since. I believe he's gotten better at home as well...so you see, it may be a temporary thing. Don't give up on her yet.....just my opinion :)

[daycaremum]

This also would never happen at my daycare with a child I had in my care for so long. Regardless, I would remove the child from the play space to be alone until she could calm down. I would tell her that she was behaving badly and myself and her friends don't need to hear her doing it so she can be by herself until she's ready to behave nicely. She would stay there until she was calm, quiet and ready to apologize. Yes, at 2.5 years she should be able to do all this.
I also reinforce that it is okay to have whatever feelings she is having but not okay to scream, kick, hit and encourage her to use words to tell me how she is feeling. (after she has calmed down)

[torontokids]

I think sometimes when we are responding to another provider's question we need to be careful not to come off as judgmental. To say that a child would "never" do that at your daycare is a pretty bold statement as kids go through lot's of life changes that may come out behaviour wise with us. It's statements like these that also suggest that a provider that this happens to is "less than" which is not fair at all.

I do agree that it is important to nip it in the bud immediately through consistent consequences e.g. removal of privileges/toy or a time out. Counter this with lot's of positives so they aren't looking for that attention in other ways as you are worried about. I wouldn't ignore it. I save ignoring for more minor attention seeking/annoying behaviour.

[playfelt]

All kids will try things at least once while in our care but they will quickly learn it was not their brightest move for sure. This is an age where language abilities, quest for independence but wanting the comfort and security of being a toddler is constantly in conflict and emotions are totally out of proportion. The worst thing you can do is ignore the tantrum because being ignored leads to escalation but at the same time it needs to not feed into it either. Most kids this age I can still lift so I would immediately fold her arms around to stop the thrashing and then pull her down into my lap on the floor till she calmed down - the holding of the arms is a calming technique for most kids because they get out of control moving and don't know how to turn it off - so when the adult puts a stop to the movement they can then settle themselves down.

If you have the space and want to just move the child to a space that gives them room to kick and get it out of their system but far enough that it is as if you are not available to watch - ie it doesn't serve it's intended purpose may put a stop to it provided you go to the child as soon as they have stopped and let them know you are ready to talk them about what they need.

[zoomama]

You voiced exactly what I was thinking, torontokids. Saying it would NEVER happen in MY home immediately puts the fault with the other provider. I haven't had it happen yet, but being a mom of a 7-yr old, i've learned those "nevers" do sometimes happen. The key isn't in it never happening, but in how it's handled and what the child learns.

Personally, I would remove the child from the group, place him/her in a separate room, tell them that once they calm down I will return to talk. Then I would close the door behind me and let them tantrum it out. Afterwards, when the child is in a rational frame of mind, is the time to discuss and implement consequences. IMO, and experience with my own ds. :)

[daycaremum]

This also would never happen at my daycare with a child I had in my care for so long. Regardless, I would remove the child from the play space to be alone until she could calm down. I would tell her that she was behaving badly and myself and her friends don't need to hear her doing it so she can be by herself until she's ready to behave nicely. She would stay there until she was calm, quiet and ready to apologize. Yes, at 2.5 years she should be able to do all this.
I also reinforce that it is okay to have whatever feelings she is having but not okay to scream, kick, hit and encourage her to use words to tell me how she is feeling. (after she has calmed down)


To be clear, I have had children have a tantrum at my home when they have started at an older age and are learning the ropes at my house. I say this would "never happen with a child I had in my care for so long" because it wouldn't. They may get upset and need to have a big cry, but never a full out flailing tantrum. Maybe I have been lucky. I have clear expectations around behaviour. The children know that their feelings are okay, they learn the best way to express their emotions, they learn to come to me for help with their feelings, etc... They also know what behaviours are acceptable and unacceptable. I would be shocked if any of my daycare kids had a falling down, flailing tantrum, because it just doesn't happen here. I'm not trying to sound like I'm judging anybody, it's just the truth.
What leads up to these tantrums? Is it a new thing or if you look back has she slowly been moving towards this behaviour happening?
Our day is just so predictable there would be nothing to really set a child off like that.

[playfelt]

Is it just me or is everyone feeling a little bit on edge trying to make sure that their program and themselves as a caregiver comes off as above reproach and "perfect" sounding because that is what is coming across today on several of the threads on this forum. We are all going to have to deal with annoying misbehaving children at some point and we may very well not handle it in an ideal way and life will go on regardless and we will do it differently next time.

[daycaremum]

I haven't been reading a lot of posts lately so I'm not sure what you are referring to about everyone being on edge.
I do have children misbehave as all children do, but I have to be honest and say that I don't have any children that have full fledged temper tantrums. It's a fact, and I'm sorry if it upsets people that I don't have tantrums at my daycare. Not preachy, not judgey, not trying to toot my own horn, just stating a fact.
I guess I just have been lucky over the last ten years to have non-tantrum kids. Yes they cry, get angry, need some time by themselves, try to break the rules, but I actually have never had a kid that falls to the ground and flails about.
Sorry, it's the truth. I should be allowed to state the truth without having to defend myself.
Everyone posts truths about negative things and everyone supports them.
Yet I am trying to tell the truth about a positive thing and am defending myself.
Weird.

[Momof4]

I don't know about anybody else, but when I type something or say something it's my opinion and it's honest. Nobody else ever has to agree with me, but I hope I'm helping someone along the way with an anecdote from my many (many) years of experience on this earth. I abhor phoniness, you won't get that from me!

I hope I'm never attacked on this forum and have to defend myself because I've definitely quit another forum recently due to phoniness and judgemental people. Hate that! Aren't we here to support each other? Shouldn't we all be able to express our opinions without being judged or ridiculed or made to feel small?

I have to agree with Judy on this one. I had a violent 2 year old in care years ago and I terminated her because the parents wouldn't help me get her under control. None of us should keep a child like that in care because we are supposed to be protecting all the other children and we deserve to have good children in care so that we are happy.

Dream, are the parents talking openly with you about the problem? Do you see any progress possible? Good luck!

[Judy Trickett]

Well, everyone can think what they want. I really DO mean it.....I have NEVER had a kid, who started with me at the age of 12 months, go into a full blown tantrum here at 2 years old. It just wouldn't happen. It's unacceptable behaviour and they learn this early in my daycare. I don't tantrum on them. I don't hit them. I don't scream at them so they don't do it to me or their friends either. They learn this early on.

I had a 13 month old start with me a few years back. He was horrible. He hit me on day three. That was his last day here. I will NOT put up with that sort of behaviour.

[dodge__driver11]

I had a boy kick and bite me in lic. care, and it was the directors son, and she refused to do anything about it so I quit...... I don't deserve to get hit, kicked, or bitten ever! No one does.

[Dreamalittledream]

Thanks everyone for taking the time to respond. This little girl's mom actually first mentioned it to me that she was seeing the behavior at home (her 2 older sisters developed the same attitude, but at not quite early an age). Mom was wondering if I was seeing the behavior here as well. I was not, at the time. However, about 2 weeks ago a tantrum started in the car with Mom over what shoes she had wanted to wear. Mom could not calm her (there is nothing that will calm this child; you just have to put her somewhere safe and let her calm herself down). We were all playing outside at the time and I took the child in my arms so poor Mom could go to work. Once she kicked me, I then restrained her in a wagon that I had handy and let her scream it out. Lovely scene for the neighbors @ 7:30am :(
So, since then, usually once a day (almost always within the first hour of arrival) this child has a similar tantrum when she does not get what she wants (toy). That, of course, does not fly here. At first I would be very stern, sit her in the timeout chair. Every time I would look at her (say "are you calm now?"), she would start again. Now, I've created a pillow for her. As soon as I see her getting frustrated she now goes straight to her pillow and gets up when she's calm. I'm happy with this resolution as it has taught her to deal with her own emotions and she is getting no reinforcement from me (audience for her tantrum).