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Judy Trickett
09-04-2013, 12:29 PM
I am outta here! Yep, gone, leaving, never to return..........:yes :

It has dawned on me, via a few recent threads, that daycare bear is very much a parent-centric forum. And the reason this is not okay is because it boasts itself as a daycare provider forum and site. The sole purpose of daycarebear is to make an income from providers who use their database services to post their daycare openings. Well, as the old saying goes, you can't bite the hand that feeds. Daycarebear exists, and makes money solely off of dcproviders. So it also goes to say that you can not have a forum wherein you welcome providers in an attempt, yet again, to boost revenue (by ads on page refreshing - YES, daycarebear, like any other website that appears "free" to use counts on its members to have ads in their face all day) and then not support those providers while using the forum.

In recent weeks there have been a number of threads started by parents wherein the parents were allowed to post inane, nonsensical threads but providers, when simply answering the questions posted truthfully and without filtering were asked to be "respectful". And then, of course, those posts are closed. :mad:

Well, daycarebear, I respectfully say that you seem more intent on supporting parents than you do dcproviders. And it's not even that I (we) ask that you pick sides but a little equality would be nice considering that the very providers you quash and close posts on are the ones paying your bills.

Daycare is a much unappreciated and thankless job. And, sadly, there are no water coolers with co-workers hanging around in our playrooms with which to vent our concerns, as does every single other segment of EVERY other working profession. So, in short, providers come here, to a forum. And once again, oftentimes, instead of receiving the support that is very much needed providers are give rainbow and sunshine responses and/or berated from those in the same profession. And God-forbid anyone give an honest-to-God, REAL unabashed answer or they are warned to be "respectful". DaycareBear has simply fallen into the societal norm of undervaluing and constantly wanting to stifle and negative talk from daycare providers. Well, I have a newsflash for you......we are not some Polly Anna, Rosy-cheeked, overweight cherub of a grandmother who feels like being walked on and disrespected. We have a RIGHT to be heard as well.

Maybe the name should be changed from DaycareBear to DaycareDiarrhea? You know, something more fitting? ;)

I have always said that daycare forum saves childrens' lives. And I still believe that to be true. But I have to amend my original statement to say that REAL, HONEST daycare forums save kids' lives.

Anyway, I'm outta here. If you want to find me you know where I am. ;)

Artsand crafts
09-04-2013, 01:07 PM
Too bad you are leaving. So much can be learn with different opinions, even if they are heading opposite directions. What would be the point of hearing always the same answers in those kinds of threats you are talking about? No much to take out of it really when we don't have an open mind.... Other new providers, won't get to read your point of view that I think many of us had learn a lot from.

ladyjbug
09-04-2013, 01:52 PM
I am going to have to agree with Judy here, big time.

I really don't understand the tone of the moderators here.

I am a rational person. I realize that not everyone here is out to get everyone else. I realize that some actually do have a more optimistic response to things than others and it works for them. I get that. I do not sugar coat my answers because I believe a straight-forward answer helps me out the most, so that is the way I tend to help others. I think those opinions are just as appropriate and valuable to answering a query than a sympathetic ear. That is not "harsh", it is just my own truth I am speaking. I hope it helps the people I tell it to.

The fact is, this is a forum that mainly was SUPPOSED to be for daycare providers, a place for support, for ideas, and to occasionally vent. At least, that is what the forum headings tell me. There is only one small subforum for parents, and several more out there on the world wide web if they want to complain about their provider. But anyone with any sort of common sense would know that if you wanted a provider's opinion, this is where we hang out. We should be able to ask questions. We should be able to get answers. We should be able to debate and disagree, and people coming to that forum should be able to handle that without hurt feelings.

Some of the parents that come here have legitimate questions and they are dealt with sympathetically and rationally and that parent is usually grateful and goes on their way. However, if we read a post that complains about a daycare, NAMES them, or makes a giddy "mission accomplished" post after she posts slanderous material, why is it disrespectful to call that into question? Why were posters like darasmommy allowed such leniency for so many months to criticize us and say terrible things before you finally banned them? Why is it okay for a parent to say she is taking a daycare to court for Human Rights abuses and she is still continuing to bring her child there? Why can we not truthfully examine the true causes of aggressive behavior at daycare? Why not? Aren't these things that we should be examining as providers that care to do their job correctly? Didn't these posters bring these topics to us providers themselves TO analyze?

Now, I do realize that some posts from providers ARE rude. I personally have taken issue with daycarewhisperer's posts as of late. Her homophobic rant on the transgender thread made me want to puke. So if that was the post that made you close it, I get that. However, do NOT paint us all with the same brush. Do not post a generic, passive aggressive "be kind, ladies!", because that is exactly what you are doing and it is infuriating. It does nothing to diffuse the situation. Call the troublemaker out. We are here to give our opinions that are sometimes not popular, but they are still valid and it is terrible to read a condescending post like that when you have spent a lot of time trying to analyze a poster's situation and HELP them.

The other problem with asking US to act respectfully, is you do NOT ask the few parents that are posting nonsensically to act respectfully. You tell us to use our ignore button. YOU, mamaof4 are creating the US versus THEM atmosphere by treating us differently, and I think we are right to take offense. Some posts have called us mean and hateful and that we shouldn't be in business. Some post have made claims about their providers that could have ended their business. When some prodding happened a lot of these claims turned out to be false or made out of spite. Those posts HARM providers. And you have posted many times in favor of the parents doing this and that we should "be kind" while they do this. A parent will not lose their livelihood over a complaint, but a provider might. If that provider is not around to defend themselves, why is it bad that we check out all angles in a provider forum to see if it is actually the truth before ultimately ruining someone's career or harming their business?

I'm going to post this before you put in your final word and close the thread, because that appears to be your current go-to. I'd love to keep this discussion open if possible. I think this place has great potential, but we need to be treated equally. For now, I am mostly disappointed with the way things have been handled and I am sorry to see Judy go, but I don't blame her. Honestly.

Skysue
09-04-2013, 02:11 PM
Very well said ladybug, I completely agree! What other forums are for providers only? I get that were not always going to share the same views on here but the "real" people have always been appreciated!

jammiesandtea
09-04-2013, 02:40 PM
I fully agree with all of your points, Judy. I know many others agree as well.

I feel the same as you do, though I wish you weren't leaving, because I strongly feel that this forum needs your input and your candid, unvarnished viewpoint to counteract the rainbow/lollipop brigade that rules the roost here. The world needs not only the pollyanna hand-holders, but the ones who can call a spade a spade with some tough "love", as well.

The truth is, I am actually a very positive, encouraging, glass-half-full, attitude-of-gratitude kinda chick in my "real" life (most of the time, haha)... but not to the degree that I can or want to live in denial or refuse to deal with reality. That's my issue with the rainbow/lollipop brigade. I'm not just inherently negative or bitter without cause. I've been in the business of teaching and raising other people's children for many years, so as Dr. Phil so eloquently puts it: "This 'aint my first rodeo."

So, two things, regarding the topics that regularly get my goat in this business (and on these boards):

One: Daycare parents, most or many of them, either from the beginning or eventually, will disrespect, screw over, make things very difficult, and in general be simply unappreciative of the job we do, in caring for and teaching their children during the most formative years of their lives (during which we as daycare providers have them for the majority of their waking hours). If you're a provider and haven't yet experienced this as being true with most or many of your daycare parents (eventually), then A) you're doing an OUTSTANDING job at screening them before accepting them to care, and you must live in an area where filling spots is like shooting fish in a barrel (not that I condone shooting fish in a barrel, lol), or you don't desperately need the income and can afford to hold out for such rare Golden parents and kids... or B) you're very new to this business and when we ask you again down the road a bit, you'll nod your head in agreement to this part of my post. :yes:

Two: I see a lot of posts here about there being "many different styles of parenting" and how all of them are right and none of us should judge any methods (or lack thereof) because every parent has their own style and "what works for them". Except that usually, if we're discussing their parenting style here on a forum because they've asked for help, it means that their parenting "style" ISN'T WORKING. Their kid "isn't socialized", or is "aggressive", or maybe throws "dramatic meltdowns" when they don't get their own way (to quote some recently used buzzwords from this forum). Those are irrefutable signs that your "parenting style" needs a re-think.

The un-sugar-coated fact is, not all parenting styles are "OK". The permissive, indulgent child raising philosophies that have become popular in recent years, are turning out a bunch of spoiled-brat, entitled, unsuccessful-at-life human beings who never move out of their parents' basement or end up in jail. And the "attachment parented" kids are NOT in any way, shape, or form prepared for the realities of group care, and it's so incredibly selfish and short-sighted of parents to choose this philosophy/method and then subject their child and the child's daycare provider to the HELL that ensues when an AP kid is then put into a group care situation that is by virtue of its definition, completely unable to meet the needs and expectations that this child has been conditioned and trained to demand.

So, no, not all parenting styles are A-OK, and requiring people to refrain from trying to educate and help someone who has chosen an untenable method and is asking for advice on the result of that choice... or else we are labeled "disrespectful"... well, that is nonsensical.

"Disrespectful" (on a forum) is calling someone derogatory names, cursing at them, etc. Disagreeing with them, pointing out the inconsistencies or believability in their story, or calling attention to their child rearing methods that are having undesired consequences and recommending alternate methods based on experience, is not disrespectful.

With all due respect.

;)


This board will be less fortunate to be without your contributions, Judy, but luckily, I do know where to find you! :thumbsup:

Crayola kiddies
09-04-2013, 03:03 PM
Jammie's .... Good golly I think we were separated at birth !!!

mamaof4
09-04-2013, 04:21 PM
You may notice I removed a thread that was getting contentious and was in general attention seeking and disrespectful.

I do not like to call out individual users so I keep it to a general be kind.

There is a distinct difference between sugar-coating and being kind. You can be be supportive and helpful without making a parent feel humiliated and defensive.

That is where my issue lies. Part of it is there are many more daycare providers on this site than parents so it is very easy for a parent to feel ganged upon.

Some users were pretty unkind and unhelpful, telling a parent that she had not done her job to socialize her child and that he had spent 2 years being the biggest fish in the pond. The parent only asked how long daycare providers give kids to settle in. Some providers instead of answering her questions attacked her and made her feel poorly. That is not okay.

notaunicorn
09-04-2013, 05:10 PM
so you are a mod who decides when a discussion is being disrespectful and gets to lock it or delete it. Who are the other mods? are there any or are you the only one?

Reason I am asking is because we all love a good DISCUSSION, seeing others viewpoints and at no time did I sense any disrespect in that thread. Differences of opinions yes, some high and mighties, yes.

If you are the only mod on here maybe it is time we take a vote and see if we want to continue with you as our mod or if we should have others? It is a democratic society is it not?

Put it to a vote and put your money where your mouth is, before we lose any more members that are done with your dictatorship of deciding when a post is bashing and furthermore deleting someones goodbye message seems a little unmod like to me, more like jealousy or hatred since you may not have the same respect and following. Sorry for the run on sentence, fell free to delete for bad grammar :p

mimi
09-04-2013, 05:22 PM
I am angry that the moderator has removed Judy's post and subsequent posts. I feel an important discussion has just been stymied in the name of politeness. I would like to see how others feel about what Judy has said. In essence, she (we) have been gagged. This is disgusting. No one was being abusive, they were just being honest.

Judy, expressed her opinion in a mature manner, so basically does the moderator have to like us in order for us to be able to see our posts continue into a discussion? I hope this gets read before it gets removed.
I don't suffer fools well, and this was a foolish move.

ladyjbug
09-04-2013, 05:27 PM
I think you missed the point of the original post. However your reaction to the post proved the point perfectly. You could answered the post honestly and shown respect to the forum members who raised lots of good points, without censoring the ideas of others on this forum to make your own point. Instead you deleted any mention of dissatisfaction with your ability as a moderator here and did a separate post instead.

Being fed up enough to leave and tell you why is not attention seeking. Maybe if she was hoping to be talked into staying, I would consider that attention seeking. But Judy left this forum and didn't look back. However, deleting posts that criticize you and feeling the need to start your own posts to make your point and save face IS attention seeking behavior, in my personal opinion. People should get a chance to see both sides and form their own opinions, and you deleted that option. Why would you do that? Why not let both sides be shown and let the chips fall where they may?

You still have not addressed why you treat providers differently and parents differently on this forum, which I think is the main part of the problem. It can't be just that they are outnumbered. Darasmommy was just one voice and she did tons of damage here to many nice providers while you allowed her to abuse us, and just told us to "be kind" and use our ignore button. Just wondering why the same modicum of respect is not granted to us. I look forward to your comments. I hope this comment is not deleted. However, if it is, you will only be proving our point further.

mamaof4
09-04-2013, 05:27 PM
If you feel the discussion can remain respectful- I can reinstate the post, I am not the only mod the admin mods as well.

A lot of what I do in terms of stepping in is when I am alerted to a post via a member. If you didn't feel there it was disrespectful - others may have- each of us have our own thresholds.

mamaof4
09-04-2013, 05:32 PM
As a mod I did not have the rights to ban Darasmommy initially- I had to wait for those. Once I got them, I used them.

I am open to criticism. I am human- if the criticism is constructive bring it on. If it is just for the sake of being mean then no.

The reason I deleted the post is in all of the forums I participate in and moderate- 'goodbye forum' posts are not permitted. If a member wants to sign of privately or message people on her own- by all means- but those type of posts are, as a rule, not allowed.

jammiesandtea
09-04-2013, 05:39 PM
Not surprisingly, I wholeheartedly agree with notaunicorn, mimi, and ladyjbug, and I will simply add a strong "ME TOO" and "WHAT SHE SAID" to their posts, because to be honest with you I am so disgusted and angry about the nazi-ish censoring of our posts that I will wait to comment further until I am able to do so while still remaining "respectful".

Skysue
09-04-2013, 05:45 PM
Why was it removed in the 1st place? She never said anything abusive, rude or disrespectful? All posts were clean? I have also noticed people's threads get moved to the back burner after one day of posting? I think that specific MOD's are not being unbiased and as a professional provider I'm truly feeling this Site to be very controlled.

As well tons of members have posted farewell threads and not one has been removed?

I don't know where Judy has gone but If someone would like to pm me I would like to follow suit!

ladyjbug
09-04-2013, 05:49 PM
As a mod I did not have the rights to ban Darasmommy initially- I had to wait for those. Once I got them, I used them.

I am open to criticism. I am human- if the criticism is constructive bring it on. If it is just for the sake of being mean then no.

The reason I deleted the post is in all of the forums I participate in and moderate- 'goodbye forum' posts are not permitted. If a member wants to sign of privately or message people on her own- by all means- but those type of posts are, as a rule, not allowed.

I don't understand your reasoning here. Why not delete all of darasmommy's posts as soon as she made them, since you DO have that power ? I am sure you were contacted numerous times about her and alerted to the many inflammatory posts she wrote.

Also, I checked the rules up top and there is no mention of a "goodbye" post not being allowed. Judy was not breaking any rules unless you have created unspoken rules that we are supposed to guess at. I have noticed that others have made posts in the past that they were thinking of leaving (lately I think it was dodgedriver11 because she was upset about the treatment of darasmommy) and that was not removed. So why this one in particular? I am still not convinced that something different happened other than that you saw a post that featured you in an unfavorable light, and removed it.

Anyway, please reinstate the original thread. I'd really like you to address the many questions I asked on there. You STILL have not answered why you treat providers and parents differently on this forum, even though I have mentioned it here and on the previous post and I think it is the main part of the problem. Please tell me why. Thank you.

mamaof4
09-04-2013, 05:59 PM
I merged the two threads so everything could be grouped together, I am totally in favor of productive discussion. I take offense to the Nazi comment- I lost a huge amount of family to the Nazi regime. Please, unless someone is slaughtering people based on religion refrain from that comparison.

mamaof4
09-04-2013, 06:04 PM
in terms of deleting darasmommy's posts, I do not sit at the computer all day and wait for new threads, I have 5 of my own kids to care for, I get on the forum a few times a day, but I am not perfect, I miss things.

apples and bananas
09-04-2013, 08:21 PM
Congratulation Judy... What has happened here was most likely your intent.

A long drawn out goodbye, throwing the monitors of the forum under the bus and subsequently throwing this thread into a complete left turn.

If you are not happy with the way the sight is monitored, find another sight.

I too saw some of the comments discussed and I too feel that the parent was attacked. I didn't have time to continue to look at the thread as I have a daycare to run and a family to attend to after hours. I agree that there aren't enough parents on this sight... this isn't stricty a daycare provider forum. And I too agree that the parent was completely ganged up on. She asked for advise and instead was completely judged.

The monitor of the sight is just that.. the monitor. And it is within his or her rights to monitor this sight as he/she sees fit. I support that... otherwise I would move on to something else.

It's happened to me as well... I asked for a craft idea and was told by several providers that I shouldn't bother and that I was being taken advantage of. If I wanted to know if I was being taking advantage of I would have asked, but nope... I just wanted a craft idea.

So... to get back to the original reason for this post... goodbye Judy... I'm sure you will continue to stir up the pot on many other sights. Congratulations on your last attempt.. it was successful.

treeholm
09-04-2013, 08:23 PM
I understand that the intent of using the word Nazi may have been to indicate strong disapproval, but that word is abhorrent to many of us. To compare the actions of a forum moderator using her power at her own discretion to the actions of an evil regime that caused the death of millions of innocent victims is in very, very poor taste. I will choose to assume that this was said out of ignorance, not malice.

Artsand crafts
09-04-2013, 09:22 PM
I just want to say I am glad this threat was reinstated. I felt offended that it got deleted and for a moment felt transported to the place I had to live in for several years where freedom of speech was a luxury.

I also have felt attacked sometimes, too but I try to keep an open mind and think about it, maybe the person that is trying to help us (and not in the way we like) could have something valuable to say or maybe no, but how would we know if we always keep a narrow mind.

I was completely out of my element when I started in this business and I wish somebody had told me then not to let people take advantage of me and in top of that take their time to explain me why. If that had happened I wouldn't have to learn so the hard way.

Getting comments from seasoned providers feels sometimes like getting free daycare provider consulting services. Questions about how long would it take to transition a kid to a daycare could be easily googled and it would show an approximated number and maybe a little explanation. The parent here got much more than that. She got a customized analysis of why her child could be having a hard time in a daycare setting so she could start working on it. She may not have liked what she was told, but she could very well think about it and use some of that information for her child's sake since what she has been doing is not working and in the meantime some other parents reading that threat could help their kids, too.

momofnerds
09-05-2013, 08:03 AM
well, hmmm, first, I think judys good bye was uncalled for and it was posted to stir the pot. Because really all she had to say was that she was leaving, but instead started to point fingers and babbled about advertising and such. Really if you were so unhappy or didn't like the way it was run, a message to the mod would havebeen great and could have solved the problem.

second, leave mom of 4 alone, she's not the only mod. She's the only mod that I have seen even ever do anything about the posts. I'm yet to see anyone else (is there anyone else) she doesn't sit at the computer all just like the rest of us and she's human. If you didn't like what she did, then go send a message to the director otherwise get off her case, geez

third, there are some of you (yes providers) that are mean and are bullies. I even had one that no matter what i posted she would stalk me, she just didn't get it that I don't live in her area and no where near her but it was her way or no way! you can pick them out in this post and in other posts who rule the roast, they are mean in the way they post. I think thats why providers don't want to post because asking a simple question will turn into a huge debate, something that is uncalled for.

and fourth, if you don't like it here you can leave, walk away, turn off the computer, take a break.

FSD
09-05-2013, 10:21 AM
I have to agree....I'm new this year to this forum and it's been invaluable to me as I'm a newbie in this business. But I was really shocked by some of the comments made by the providers.

Can't we just all get along and support each other? :flower:

Fun&care
09-05-2013, 11:02 AM
Really this has all been blown out of proportion. Anyone with basic human manners can go back and read some recent posts and realize that some of them were condescending and disrespectful. I don't think it's too much to ask to be respectful. It's not about your beliefs or parenting styles, it's about voicing your opinion in a professional, respectful, adult manner. Making someone feel inadequate and belittled doesn't help anyone.

ladyjbug
09-05-2013, 11:49 AM
So...I’ve refrained from commenting on this thread for a whole day. You still haven`t answered my question about why you treat providers and parents differently. My post is right there on the first page. It lists several reasons why I think this tactic of yours is contributing to the atmosphere of negativity in here. I am really actually curious about your answers to those now, and you seem to be studiously avoiding that main question for some reason. I’ve asked it numerous times and you have ignored it numerous times.

The thing is, I don’t think you can answer that question without admitting that you have a strong bias towards certain posters, i.e. parents. You have alluded to it in some posts, most recently the aggressive kid post. Since the very definition of moderate is to be IN THE MIDDLE, not biased towards either side, then you are technically not doing your job by censoring those who may have a different opinion than you, as you originally did with this post and closing the two threads this week.

I get that you’re human, you miss things. You have a life. That’s fair. However, this is a very big forum now with lots of posters. A lot of threads and posts tend to get out of hand. In a forum like this, you need a STRONG moderator team to manage things, and that team needs to be without bias to keep it from getting into an US versus THEM atmosphere, something that you also alluded to in the aggressive child thread. Everyone deserves the right to be heard, and not every poster that has a different opinion should be lumped into the category of “mean” and a “bully”. I don’t lump everyone together. I admit that some people work best with a pat on the shoulder and a sympathetic ear, and some do better with straight forward calling a spade a spade. I said that in my first post on this thread. I value all opinions, even if I disagree.

I think personally, you are in over your head. You have said yourself that you don’t nearly have enough time or energy to monitor this forum the way it should be monitored, and that contributes to the negative energy in here. Someone else should share the load with you since admin is not doing anything really. We should have at least one more moderator, preferably two, to share the workload and monitor the posts before they get out of hand.

I disagree with the posters that have said basically “If you don’t like it, then leave” essentially. First of all, the OP did leave. I haven’t seen Judy back to this thread or this forum. She's done. The rest of us who happen to agree with the reason she did it doesn’t make us mean or bullies for trying to discuss and realize how it can get to this point that a seasoned provider with lots of advice would not want to even try to participate on this forum anymore. I think it is a huge loss. I am discussing rational solutions here, and reasons why both sides feel the way they do. I want to make this a better place for all. Don’t you? Are you really saying if I don’t agree with you, I should just leave? That’s not constructive. How are you going to learn anything if you are always presented with people that agree with you? I personally learn the most from the people I disagree with because I either become stronger in my convictions or learn to consider a new perspective. I think it serves no purpose to ask those of us who happen to agree that there is a huge disconnect here to leave as you would also lose a huge part of the forum that makes it interesting.

I didn't use the N-word in any of my posts, so you are spared from lecturing me and grasping at that diversionary tactic as a last-ditch measure. Please just answer my questions honestly and consider my opinion and why you are avoiding it in the first place. Thank you.

Artsand crafts
09-05-2013, 12:10 PM
How are you going to learn anything if you are always presented with people that agree with you? I personally learn the most from the people I disagree with because I either become stronger in my convictions or learn to consider a new perspective. I think it serves no purpose to ask those of us who happen to agree that there is a huge disconnect here to leave as you would also lose a huge part of the forum that makes it interesting.



This is what I don't understand either...

mamaof4
09-05-2013, 12:24 PM
Ladyjbug- I did not say you used that word, nor did I say I did not have nearly enough time-- etc- those are your words. Please do not put words in my mouth. If you want more mods- please feel free to suggest it. But unfortunately or fortunately a forum is not a democracy. It is an internet message board.

You do not have to agree with everyone- but you have to disagree nicely. I disagree with lots of people often, but I do my best not to attack them or make them feel belittled.

Now to address the board as a whole (all yous are plural and not to single anyone out):

This forum is not just for daycare providers, it is a public internet forum--- anyone can join. You do not have to be a parent or a provider- which is part of the reason why we had a lot of trouble with spammers.

I do not feel like I treat groups of people differently- we may just have to agree to disagree on that one. When a provider feels ganged up on and she contacts me I deal with it. If a thread is getting out of hand I deal with it- maybe you don't like it-- maybe you saw nothing wrong with it-- that is fine- you are welcome to your opinion. I have been contacted by providers and by parents alike. I have had parents and providers ask that I lock or remove threads started by them. I do it.

Behaving respectfully is more than not calling each other names or being outright rude, it is not making someone feel belittled or badly.

torontokids
09-05-2013, 12:25 PM
I don't think anyone has said we don't want differing view points. I agree, this is how we learn. I think what is being said is that there are many ways to say something and some posters had been rude and snarky towards someone asking a simple question. I think a lot of what had been said/"suggested" by these posters could be relevant to this parent but no one is going to hear these suggestions when they are presented as they were (essentially calling her incompetent). Also, people on here made a lot of assumptions based on a little bit of information given.

Skysue
09-05-2013, 12:54 PM
Ladies can we all agree to clean the slate from this moment forward. Let's work together to be the forum that we all want it to be. Professional, encouraging, constructive and loving! Let's be like the daycares we run!

I miss the fun posts about craft ideas, cool room set ups, menu ideas etc. and having someone give a hug when we need as we all know what this business can be like!

I certainly hope I haven't been a negative force in anyone’s day! I know I can be opinioned and stubborn, as I love a good debate but I truly hope I have been respectful!

I do feel that when crazy parents are attacking our character and calling us names then that post should be considered SPAM and removed right away!

SPAM: Spaced out abusive Mothers! LOL

cfred
09-05-2013, 12:56 PM
What you call a spade might not be what someone else might call a spade. Of course everyone is entitled to their opinions, but unless asked for them, maybe keep it to yourself. That parent asked a very simple question and was subject to what I would consider a vicious attack on her parenting skills. It was completely and utterly inappropriate, uncalled for and frankly, unprofessional. If any of us spoke to a client in that form, we could all expect to be fired immediately and have a bad reputation following us around. The anonymity in this forum, at times, seems to breed contempt.

The advice, knowledge and support on this forum are is rampant, something I think most of us (myself included) are incredibly grateful for. This is an often unappreciated and isolating job. Having peers to talk to is a wonderful thing :) It's those connections I make on here which I value highly. However.....I do see many providers taking a negative turn. What dismays me is the plethora of threads, comments, posts from people who feel that the parents are out to get them, are unappreciative and who don't value them. I don't have any doubt that there are loads of clients out there like this and I've had a few myself, unfortunately. But it seems that the overwhelming aura in here is often that it is to be expected and even anticipated. It's sad....not pathetic or anything derogatory....just sad. I love my job and I love my clients and yes, I love my daycare children. We have to take the good with the bad and let the unpleasant experiences roll off our backs and come back to our roots which is why we love this profession to begin with. Posts, such as some of these and the ones Mamaof4 is being crucified for cutting short are the epitome of why many people don't take us seriously. A simple question was asked and a mother was treated very poorly. Thank you Mamaof4 for taking care of that for the parents, the forum and for us. I haven't found parents being treated differently than us. The fact is there aren't many parents who come in here. And given recent activity, who can blame them? It's like sticking your arm in an alligator's mouth and hoping it doesn't bite.

We can expect to receive from others what we bring to the table ourselves. Will we get burned every once in a while? Sure. That's true for anything in life. But in my experience, what I put out to my clients is what I reap in return. Last night, I sent 3 of my families home with a home cooked Thai dinner which I had made scads too much of. Were they grateful? Yep. Every morning, one client brings me a coffee and I send her with a fresh baked muffin. Nice? You bet! Do clients come right into my home freely and play with their children and talk to me. For sure! And my clients make me feel, every day, that I'm a valued member of their 'peripheral family', which is the gravy on top of all the other reasons I love this job so much. The silliness going on now is the very reason I decided to never work in a daycare centre again.....office politics and back biting. I'm very sad to see this in a place where we should all feel safe, supported, SUPPORTIVE and, most of all, respectful to ourselves, our peers and our clients (who afford us this wonderful option of working at home).

Just my 2 cents......

playfelt
09-05-2013, 01:22 PM
What comes across to me is three kinds of providers and because everyone answers from their experience we get differing opinions but everyone thinks they are right and in their minds they are. Seasoned providers have seen more, tried more, done more, and are better able to see through the rhetoric. Newbies come to the forum still seeing daycare through rose coloured glasses or come to the forum because the glasses are off and they are disillusioned. The group in the middle is learning and learning fast but still has a lot of different scenerios to experience before they will be able to fully understand.

I am going to refer to the thread on the parent with the 2 year old. The question asked in words was how long to transition. The seasoned answer - it isn't ever going to happen. We got into trouble for explaining why not.

Note the thread topic title parent used - my child is about to get kicked out after day 2 for negative behaviour. Then question was really how long should the caregiver give child to start behaving. You can interpret the question many ways. Responses from those new to caregiving will be along the lines of well I work with all families and try to do what is best for the child and they rhyme off some vague hope of it all working out. The reality is those that have seen this kind of thing over and over know that over and over again it just doesn't work out.

Did the parent ask for advice well that is up for debate. They sure got some yes and it wasn't easy to hear I'm sure but sometimes things just need to be said. We are daycare providers not miracle workers. We do the best with the kids the parents send us but sometimes we have to call a parent out and say ok enough is enough either get your kid up to speed or stay home and do the care yourself because no one wants to be around your child that bites, hits, has tantrums, makes us late for outings or spoils our walks in the woods, whatever.

cfred
09-05-2013, 01:51 PM
Well, having been in the business for 20 years, I'd hardly refer to myself as a newbie. Rose coloured glasses? Perhaps. Personally, I don't believe there's a situation that can't be sorted out with some intensive work and effort. These are young children....very young in many cases, and as is the case with the 2 year old being discussed. I do not believe for one second that the situation cannot be salvaged. This is based on my experiences as a head teacher in 3 classrooms in formal daycare settings, work as a resource teacher, nanny, 12 years running my own home daycare and my education. What may differ, however, is the willingness to put in varying degrees of work from different providers. Me...I'm a down with the ship type of person. I'll work at it until it's sorted out. And so far, even my most difficult children have always come along. It is completely doable, but sometimes requires more effort than many are willing to put in. To immediately say that the child will never fit in is inaccurate and short sighted. Every client coming into my home is told that their child will be afforded the luxury of transitioning in at whatever rate they require....EVERY child. I currently have one little guy who won't sleep or eat. The eating part (after much grief) has begun eating on his own and is adapting well. His sleeping sucks....really sucks! And sure, I miss my breaks like you wouldn't believe. However, when I discuss this with his mom, I see the look of panic on her face. She's even texted me asking if I'm ok and do I need to back out. The answer is no. She is a wonderful client and he is a wonderful boy. Yep, lots of work to be done. It's stressful and difficult and more than I'd like to do. But speaking as a professional, that's my job. That's what I get paid for. Not everyone wants to approach daycare this way; fair enough. But it cannot be said with any authority or accuracy that the situation is not rectifiable. That simply isn't true. It only isn't rectifiable if no one is willing to do the work to rectify it. The fact is that he is a toddler. Toddlers want to, by nature, make the adults in their lives happy. The trick is to bond with the child in such a way that they respect you, love you and trust you. Once this is established, there are many, many teaching opportunities that will arise during which the child can be taught how to get along in a way that really gets through to him. And this certainly doesn't make his mother an inept parent. Just like us, kids have different personalities, needs.

momofnerds
09-05-2013, 03:01 PM
so I went back and read that thread over again. I found that everyone gave her an opinion, but its acually the parent who started the whole issue and from then on it escalated. She said that she doesn't keep her kid caged up. I went thru every response and I couldn't find someone saying it.

sometimes I wonder those who post don't want to hear a answer, they want to only hear that they are right. Go back and read that post, no one said anything mean or nasty on that thread about keeping her kid caged up, it was acually the parent. The parent blew the whole thread out of porportion and now it got us nowhere.

playfelt
09-05-2013, 03:28 PM
Trying to get a group of toddlers to the play area while one child insists in a tantrum fashion to stay on the escalator is not the time to "work on it". That is why each provider has their own way of doing things and know which children will fit into the type of program they offer and which would be better off with a provider that has a different type of program and that is why the provider was honest and told the parent that if what happened on day one happens again it will mean the child is not ready (difference here is had the child started at a year old like the other children they would have had time to learn the process).

Many times on this board providers suggest terminating a child because they are not adapting. Parents of course don't understand exactly what it is like to work with a group of mixed ages instead of just one or two.

Artsand crafts
09-05-2013, 06:54 PM
so I went back and read that thread over again. I found that everyone gave her an opinion, but its acually the parent who started the whole issue and from then on it escalated. She said that she doesn't keep her kid caged up. I went thru every response and I couldn't find someone saying it.

sometimes I wonder those who post don't want to hear a answer, they want to only hear that they are right. Go back and read that post, no one said anything mean or nasty on that thread about keeping her kid caged up, it was acually the parent. The parent blew the whole thread out of porportion and now it got us nowhere.

I just went back to read it too. She even got very good practical advice from playfelt to try to make it work in group care.

daycarewhisperer
09-05-2013, 08:59 PM
I am going to have to agree with Judy here, big time.

I really don't understand the tone of the moderators here.

I am a rational person. I realize that not everyone here is out to get everyone else. I realize that some actually do have a more optimistic response to things than others and it works for them. I get that. I do not sugar coat my answers because I believe a straight-forward answer helps me out the most, so that is the way I tend to help others. I think those opinions are just as appropriate and valuable to answering a query than a sympathetic ear. That is not "harsh", it is just my own truth I am speaking. I hope it helps the people I tell it to.

The fact is, this is a forum that mainly was SUPPOSED to be for daycare providers, a place for support, for ideas, and to occasionally vent. At least, that is what the forum headings tell me. There is only one small subforum for parents, and several more out there on the world wide web if they want to complain about their provider. But anyone with any sort of common sense would know that if you wanted a provider's opinion, this is where we hang out. We should be able to ask questions. We should be able to get answers. We should be able to debate and disagree, and people coming to that forum should be able to handle that without hurt feelings.

Some of the parents that come here have legitimate questions and they are dealt with sympathetically and rationally and that parent is usually grateful and goes on their way. However, if we read a post that complains about a daycare, NAMES them, or makes a giddy "mission accomplished" post after she posts slanderous material, why is it disrespectful to call that into question? Why were posters like darasmommy allowed such leniency for so many months to criticize us and say terrible things before you finally banned them? Why is it okay for a parent to say she is taking a daycare to court for Human Rights abuses and she is still continuing to bring her child there? Why can we not truthfully examine the true causes of aggressive behavior at daycare? Why not? Aren't these things that we should be examining as providers that care to do their job correctly? Didn't these posters bring these topics to us providers themselves TO analyze?

Now, I do realize that some posts from providers ARE rude. I personally have taken issue with daycarewhisperer's posts as of late. Her homophobic rant on the transgender thread made me want to puke. So if that was the post that made you close it, I get that. However, do NOT paint us all with the same brush. Do not post a generic, passive aggressive "be kind, ladies!", because that is exactly what you are doing and it is infuriating. It does nothing to diffuse the situation. Call the troublemaker out. We are here to give our opinions that are sometimes not popular, but they are still valid and it is terrible to read a condescending post like that when you have spent a lot of time trying to analyze a poster's situation and HELP them.

The other problem with asking US to act respectfully, is you do NOT ask the few parents that are posting nonsensically to act respectfully. You tell us to use our ignore button. YOU, mamaof4 are creating the US versus THEM atmosphere by treating us differently, and I think we are right to take offense. Some posts have called us mean and hateful and that we shouldn't be in business. Some post have made claims about their providers that could have ended their business. When some prodding happened a lot of these claims turned out to be false or made out of spite. Those posts HARM providers. And you have posted many times in favor of the parents doing this and that we should "be kind" while they do this. A parent will not lose their livelihood over a complaint, but a provider might. If that provider is not around to defend themselves, why is it bad that we check out all angles in a provider forum to see if it is actually the truth before ultimately ruining someone's career or harming their business?

I'm going to post this before you put in your final word and close the thread, because that appears to be your current go-to. I'd love to keep this discussion open if possible. I think this place has great potential, but we need to be treated equally. For now, I am mostly disappointed with the way things have been handled and I am sorry to see Judy go, but I don't blame her. Honestly.

My "homophobic rant" closed the thread?. Hmmm. Transgender is not the same as homosexual first. Secondly I said I would NOT call a boy a girl or a girl a boy. I would not refer to a boy as a she or her. I would not refer to a girl as a he or him.

“I" don't want to do that. “I" won't be forced to play pretend.

That has nothing to do with my opinion on homosexuality. Accusing me of that is a bully move. I won't be undone because the TRUTH is the TRUTH. I believe in saying the truth and not engaging in pretend.

ladyjbug
09-06-2013, 02:32 AM
Well, you're late to the party, aren't you? Fine, your comparison of a transgender child to someone with a delusional mental illness who thinks that they are Jesus made me want to puke. Better? Still does not negate either of my points that I actually agree with mamaof4 for shutting down the thread for that reason (if that is the reason she did it), and also not wanting to be lumped in with someone who feels the way you do.

daycarewhisperer
09-06-2013, 06:22 AM
Well, you're late to the party, aren't you? Fine, your comparison of a transgender child to someone with a delusional mental illness who thinks that they are Jesus made me want to puke. Better? Still does not negate either of my points that I actually agree with mamaof4 for shutting down the thread for that reason (if that is the reason she did it), and also not wanting to be lumped in with someone who feels the way you do.
Yes I'm late. I don't normally check this section of the board. I didn't see this until days end.

My analogy made you want to puke. The parents continuing to put her kid in an environment where the adults refused to pretend and lie makes me want to puke. If the parent knew the adults refused to pretend and lie and that is causing the child to have two emergency room visits you would THINK the parent would remove immediately and make sure their daughters minute to minute was filled with adults who would agree, pretend, and lie.

This is a child care board. As a child care provider I would rather be sued to the point where I lost everything I have worked my whole life for and be banned from ever being alone under a roof with a minor child then do ONE DAY where I was forced to pretend and lie to keep my business. I wouldn't refer to a patient who believed he was Jesus as Jesus 30 years ago and I won't call a girl a boy today.

I would call a girl who FEELS like a boy “a girl who FEELS like a boy". I would gladly welcome that child dressing as they please each and every day. I would supply the toys of their choice. I would give the educational foundation that was appropriate for his or her age.... but I would not call the child the opposite sex or refer to him or her in opposite sex pronouns. I would rather be sued off the face of child care.

Skysue
09-06-2013, 08:30 AM
This whole topic is so hard for any of us to even grasp. Until we walk a day in the shoes of parents living it.

On the flip side though I think we can all agree 150% that allowing our child to be in an environment that is harmful or hurtful to there well being knowingly is neglect on the parents part period.

Not one of us would do it, what self respecting parent would? That I think is the issue that a lot of people couldn't grasp.

ladyjbug
09-06-2013, 09:06 AM
My analogy made you want to puke. The parents continuing to put her kid in an environment where the adults refused to pretend and lie makes me want to puke. If the parent knew the adults refused to pretend and lie and that is causing the child to have two emergency room visits you would THINK the parent would remove immediately and make sure their daughters minute to minute was filled with adults who would agree, pretend, and lie.

This is a child care board. As a child care provider I would rather be sued to the point where I lost everything I have worked my whole life for and be banned from ever being alone under a roof with a minor child then do ONE DAY where I was forced to pretend and lie to keep my business. I wouldn't refer to a patient who believed he was Jesus as Jesus 30 years ago and I won't call a girl a boy today.
.

Many people (I was one of them) were able to call the parent poster out for bringing her child back to this care situation knowingly without comparing her transgender child to someone mentally delusional. I stand by my points.

I am also 100% sure that one of your posts is missing from the aggressive child thread. The one where you have suggested that the child was locked at home and kept in a crate in response to her saying he wasn't socialized? I was also shocked by that one, and I know for a fact you wrote those words. That was the post which made the parent react the way she did in her response. I don't know where it went, if you removed it, or if the mods did, but isn't it funny the way the rest of the posts are rational and wonderful advice and the parent looks irrational for reacting to your post? Funny how the removal of just that one post changed the way the forum looked at the post and the way the parent poster is viewed.

This is why I don't want to be lumped in together, mamaof4. If there is a troublemaker causing a post to go out of hand, deal with the troublemaker and don't call us all out. That's all I'm saying. I think it's a reasonable request going forward.

Well, I'm done with this thread. Have a nice day.

happymomma
09-06-2013, 09:30 AM
Many people (I was one of them) were able to call the parent poster out for bringing her child back to this care situation knowingly without comparing her transgender child to someone mentally delusional. I stand by my points.

I am also 100% sure that one of your posts is missing from the aggressive child thread. The one where you have suggested that the child was locked at home and kept in a crate in response to her saying he wasn't socialized? I was also shocked by that one, and I know for a fact you wrote those words. That was the post which made the parent react the way she did in her response. I don't know where it went, if you removed it, or if the mods did, but isn't it funny the way the rest of the posts are rational and wonderful advice and the parent looks irrational for reacting to your post? Funny how the removal of just that one post changed the way the forum looked at the post and the way the parent poster is viewed.

This is why I don't want to be lumped in together, mamaof4. If there is a troublemaker causing a post to go out of hand, deal with the troublemaker and don't call us all out. That's all I'm saying. I think it's a reasonable request going forward.

Well, I'm done with this thread. Have a nice day.

I just wanted to say that I have been following all this craziness myself and I also remember this deleted post ladyjbug is referring to 100%. It was ridiculous.

mimi
09-06-2013, 10:08 AM
ditto ladybug and happymomma:no:

momofnerds
09-06-2013, 10:20 AM
now that makes sense, there's a missing post. I was wondering why the parent would say that. I will say that its a bit harsh to say that the parent keeps her child in a crate, all the mom was asking was about transition and how long.

Fun&care
09-06-2013, 10:54 AM
My "homophobic rant" closed the thread?. Hmmm. Transgender is not the same as homosexual first. Secondly I said I would NOT call a boy a girl or a girl a boy. I would not refer to a boy as a she or her. I would not refer to a girl as a he or him.

“I" don't want to do that. “I" won't be forced to play pretend.

That has nothing to do with my opinion on homosexuality. Accusing me of that is a bully move. I won't be undone because the TRUTH is the TRUTH. I believe in saying the truth and not engaging in pretend.

I have to say, on a side note, that I agree with daycare whisperer on this one. I have absolutely nothing against gays, or transgendered ppl. But there is a big difference between an adult vs child who thinks they are transgendered. I would feel like I was lying to the child, lying to the other children also by calling them by the opposite sex. And at the end of the day, as body is a body and there is no arguing whether it male or female. I dunno. Tough subject.

daycarewhisperer
09-06-2013, 11:11 AM
Many people (I was one of them) were able to call the parent poster out for bringing her child back to this care situation knowingly without comparing her transgender child to someone mentally delusional. I stand by my points.

I am also 100% sure that one of your posts is missing from the aggressive child thread. The one where you have suggested that the child was locked at home and kept in a crate in response to her saying he wasn't socialized? I was also shocked by that one, and I know for a fact you wrote those words. That was the post which made the parent react the way she did in her response. I don't know where it went, if you removed it, or if the mods did, but isn't it funny the way the rest of the posts are rational and wonderful advice and the parent looks irrational for reacting to your post? Funny how the removal of just that one post changed the way the forum looked at the post and the way the parent poster is viewed.

This is why I don't want to be lumped in together, mamaof4. If there is a troublemaker causing a post to go out of hand, deal with the troublemaker and don't call us all out. That's all I'm saying. I think it's a reasonable request going forward.

Well, I'm done with this thread. Have a nice day.
You are 100 percent incorrect. I have NEVER pulled a post I wrote on this forum. Not once ever. To my knowledge I haven't had one pulled either. The parent came up with the crate line.

Mods should have full access to all posts pulled and edited. They need to step up and clear up the crate post and also confirm that I haven't written what you just accused me of.

I hope you didn't just make this up from thin air. Being mistaken is one thing... doing thisintentionally is quite another. I

mimi
09-06-2013, 11:16 AM
Transgender children are the ones living the lie and the stress of living as the gender you were not meant to be....well, I can only imagine. I prefer to deal with a child's gender orientation rather than the appearance of what they were born with. There is no lying to support such a child or even a child who is confused and needs to work through their gender identity. Children are more able to work outside the stereotypes and simple explanations as to why Johnny wants to try to be Joanne will not cause the other kids to do the same. Just as being homosexual is not contagious and is part of the persons genetic make up.
This is my opinion, it is not meant to attack anyone, and I hope my words reflect a person who is accepting off all persons who want to be who they feel they need to be as long as they do not hurt themselves or anyone else.

steellotus
09-06-2013, 11:22 AM
I remember the deleted post as well. I can't say who wrote it, I do not recall, but there was absolutely a message that accused the parent of keeping the child locked up in a crate.

daycarewhisperer
09-06-2013, 11:30 AM
I remember the deleted post as well. I can't say who wrote it, I do not recall, but there was absolutely a message that accused the parent of keeping the child locked up in a crate.
I didn't see that. I know I didn't write that. I know the mom said she didn't keep her kid locked up in a crate for sure.

This is a perfect example of why pulling posts can lead to argument and hard feelings when if the post was left alone it would be easily corrected.

ladyjbug
09-06-2013, 11:45 AM
I have to comment again because you are making some serious accusations about ME and my character here and you are not being truthful. I would only say those things if I was totally sure YOU said them.

Read the post made by Island 29, post #16 on that thread. It indicates that the earlier inflammatory post was made by daycarewhisperer. Daycarewhisperer responds to Island29 in post #20. All earlier posts by daycarewhisperer do not appear on that thread which indicates that the earlier inflammatory post made was removed. I did not state for sure who had removed it, only that it had been. Read it and draw your own conclusions. I am 100% sure that she made the comment about the crate and 100% the reason the parent reacted the way she did.

jammiesandtea
09-06-2013, 11:48 AM
I don't have all of the email notifications/copies of the replies in that thread, so I don't really know or remember whether or not there was a post that specifically said, "locked in a crate", but I'm wondering if the mom's use of that phrase was in response, and embellishing a bit, to playfelt's post, which I'll copy below:

playfelt: "Why can't you take him out in the mornings when playgroups exist if he is only in care in the afternoon?

Daycare is not where you learn to socialize as another poster said. Yes YOU need to take him to places and help him work though the process of getting along with others. What did you do with him for the first two years of his life - keep him locked up at home, never visiting a park, neighbour, playgroup? He spent two years being the kingpin of the kingdom and well doesn't like that he is now just one of the courtiers well too bad - a lesson all kids must learn. Being one of the crowd sucks for sure when you have been taught the world will cater to you. Sounds like you have a lot of lessons you need to teach your child before they will be ready to enter society. Don't blame your lack of training on the provider or children in care. The responsibility rests with you so get out there and enjoy those playgroups with your son."

She uses the phrase "locked up at home", NOT in a crate... but maybe the mom was just embellishing it a bit for indignant effect.

Edited to clarify that I am NOT posting this to try and throw playfelt under the bus here, because for the record, I feel that playfelt's use of the phrase, in the context it was used, is totally legitimate. And she is absolutely right about that catering/coddling parenting style being a big-time cause of the behaviour that was described.

Her suggestions, and mine and others like it, are not always said in a hand-holding way that validates a poster's parenting, because sometimes people need to be shaken a little bit to be woken up, since just like when they use that coddling method on their kids, it doesn't work with the parents either! :laugh:

ladyjbug
09-06-2013, 12:04 PM
There was definitely a post about being locked in a crate, Jammies. The parent did not pull that wording out of thin air. I remember it clearly and am still shocked. I can see the parent poster taking some offense to Playfelt's post, but Island29 did not call out playfelt for writing the post. Also playfelt's post is in response to daycarewhisperer's post and she softens it a bit while alluding to the fact that a previous poster mentioned that daycare is not the place for learning to socialize. That is daycarewhisperer's inflammatory post, that is now removed.

jammiesandtea
09-06-2013, 12:18 PM
There was definitely a post about being locked in a crate, Jammies. The parent did not pull that wording out of thin air. I remember it clearly and am still shocked. I can see the parent poster taking some offense to Playfelt's post, but Island29 did not call out playfelt for writing the post. Also playfelt's post is in response to daycarewhisperer's post and she softens it a bit while alluding to the fact that a previous poster mentioned that daycare is not the place for learning to socialize. That is daycarewhisperer's inflammatory post, that is now removed.


I went back again and you're absolutely right, ladyjbug. I apologize, I missed that.

Island29's post clearly references Daycarewhisperer's post as being outrageous, but there is no longer a post by Daycarewhisperer prior to Island29's post. So there was obviously a post by Daycarewhisperer that was deleted, by somebody.

daycarewhisperer
09-06-2013, 12:25 PM
I went back again and you're absolutely right, ladyjbug. I apologize, I missed that.

Island29's post clearly references Daycarewhisperer's post as being outrageous, but there is no longer a post by Daycarewhisperer prior to Island29's post. So there was obviously a post by Daycarewhisperer that was deleted, by somebody.

I wish the mods would just put the posts back already. Sheesh

I don't appreciate being attributed to the crate comment at all. The MOM used that phrase. I did not. I didn't imply it either.

Cadillac
09-06-2013, 01:15 PM
OMG!!!!

I gotta say: When I first came to this forum a couple years ago, it was phenomenal!!! People REALLY and TRULY helped one another. I remember post after post of cute things provider's kids would do, sharing stories, and when someone had a question if was actually freakin ANSWERED!!!!!

I stopped posting so often, even stopped checking up on the site because of what has happened. There are people here who have gotten some sort of god complex along the way. questions stopped being answered, people started getting mauled when the poster didn't have the whole story! (because honestly, if your only asking about 'xyz' why do you need to know the rest of the alphabet?) people forget that when unfoundingly changing the subject from the question about the child and start belittling the provider . . . or parent for that matter.

I could literally post a question about how to get a child to eat bananas and I bet anything by the end of the thread I'd be questioned on my menu, told I was a terrible provider and even told to terminate the freakin family . . . over a freakin BANANA

The fact that there are moderators on this site should tell you ladies something . . . . SOMETHING IS WRONG!

these thread are no longer discussions that are helpful, its no longer reading different opinions and have debates or discussions, its BULLYING!!!!! down right bullying.

So you got what you some of you really really need . . . a freakin' recess monitor.

deal with it . . . . because it is soooo needed here.

Cadillac
09-06-2013, 01:20 PM
and i'll add. if you don't like what is going on here please leave, stop posting . . .find a new forum . . . I'd love to come back and start posting with the people ive come to adore without having to read a bunch of child-ish cat fights.

mimi
09-06-2013, 01:24 PM
daycarewhisperer, since we are able to see our former posts on our account page, why not just copy and paste your posts that you made earlier in this thread and that should settle your claim that you did not say crate..........then end of.

daycarewhisperer
09-06-2013, 01:36 PM
daycarewhisperer, since we are able to see our former posts on our account page, why not just copy and paste your posts that you made earlier in this thread and that should settle your claim that you did not say crate..........then end of.I pulled up my account and clicked on posts and there is only one in that thread. If it is deleted can I still find it? Can you tell me how to get to account page?

mimi
09-06-2013, 01:46 PM
I clicked on my user name and then former posts.

daycarewhisperer
09-06-2013, 02:05 PM
I clicked on my user name and then former posts.
I did that but there is only one post on there for that thread. I didn't pull a post so it had to be done by mods.

The MOM used the phrase locked up in a crate. I didn't.

I wouldn't assume an unsocialized kid who was getting tossed out of ddaycare on day one because he was aggressive and had epic meltdowns was locked up in a cage while at home. It wouldn't have crossed my mind.

mamaof4
09-06-2013, 04:00 PM
I reinstated the post I deleted. I stand by my decision that it was unhelpful to the parent so I will delete it again shortly.

This thread is turning into a finger pointing mess. We are adults. We are intelligent. We have different opinions. This is great- but be kind.

Tone is really hard to read on the web through simple text so double check you posts to see if you could say what you wanted to say more kindly.

sunnydays
09-06-2013, 04:22 PM
Wow. Honestly I believe I wil be joining Judy and heading out of here. This kind of ridiculous cat fighting is not what I come to this forum for. I have been taking a bit of a break anyway because I found the negativity was starting to get to me. I think I may just make the break permanent. I chose to work from home in part to get away from this kind of office drama and I certainly don't intend to get dragged into it now. Who cares who said what and when and why and to whom??!! Really! Good luck to those of you who are here to give and recieve advice and support rather than drama. I wish you all the best.

daycarewhisperer
09-06-2013, 04:38 PM
I reinstated the post I deleted. I stand by my decision that it was unhelpful to the parent so I will delete it again shortly.

This thread is turning into a finger pointing mess. We are adults. We are intelligent. We have different opinions. This is great- but be kind.

Tone is really hard to read on the web through simple text so double check you posts to see if you could say what you wanted to say more kindly.
THANK you.

Now my post is back on page one.

ladyjbug
09-06-2013, 04:56 PM
Well, shit. Fair enough. I'm out too. Apparently I'm losing my edge and I apologize for the accusation. I think I need a good long break from forums. Sorry for the trouble, everyone.

daycarewhisperer
09-06-2013, 05:23 PM
Well, shit. Fair enough. I'm out too. Apparently I'm losing my edge and I apologize for the accusation. I think I need a good long break from forums. Sorry for the trouble, everyone.
Apologies accepted. :-)

mimi
09-06-2013, 05:41 PM
So glad THAT is cleared up. I think we all have learned a lesson from this:) Have a nice weekend everyone

jammiesandtea
09-06-2013, 06:34 PM
Well, shit. Fair enough. I'm out too. Apparently I'm losing my edge and I apologize for the accusation. I think I need a good long break from forums. Sorry for the trouble, everyone.

We ALL make mistakes, none of us can say we don't. I've made one (or more, in some people's view :laugh: on this very thread as well.

But ladyjbug, your other points and contributions and questions on this thread are still all very valid and your input is valuable on this forum.

Play and Learn
09-06-2013, 09:04 PM
See you later ladies. This is freaking stupid. I was one of the first providers to join this forum, and truly enjoyed giving my expertise to others who were just starting up, and learning from others who were in the field for many, many years.

Like some others stated: it WAS a good forum to post. The feed-back was 'nice', and constructive.

Then some people became all high and mighty thinking they are the "KING SHIT" in home daycare. That their responses are the only right ones.

Parents came on, and well, we know...

Well, after being gone for awhile to care for my wee lass, I come back to this shit?! No thanks. I'm done!

mamaof4
09-06-2013, 10:38 PM
Ladies, I would hate to see any of you leave. You are all valued members and I have learned a great deal from all of you. Do we all need to be patient and understanding, yes. Myself included.

I would love to hear from you suggestions on how to prevent this stuff. I am all ears (or eyes as the case maybe)

playfelt
09-06-2013, 11:11 PM
For sure no question should be asked without a full disclosure of the circumstances because that is how this all started in the first place. Once the parent "clarified" a few points it put a whole different light on the situation. This has happened over and over as someone asks what should I do and then in response they get upset and THEN give more info to clarify which of course if they had shared first they would have gotten more useful replies right from the beginning.

For sure there are regional differences that come across such as what is the norm in a big city like Toronto or Vancouver would just not fly in a rural town in Manitoba or PEI so we need to be aware of that. If we have never lived in other parts of the country it can be hard to identify with the poster without letting our current circumstances cloud our judgement. I have done daycare in three provinces and 5 cities and they were all vastly different.

Along with that I know that people don't want to identify where they live but where it says location in the info under your name (left hand column) where you post is it too much to ask you to put your province? That would for sure help us answer a question asked as provincial rules vary. No sense getting a dozen responses that won't apply.

I know we bring ourselves as adults when we reply to posts but sometimes we have to look at things from the perspective of all the children and there are reasons why some children are better taken care of in a different environment. As an adult I see things differently than my daycare children do so when I teach them I have to see things from their way of thinking and while they are accepting it is also best not to confuse them as they are just learning what things mean - what it means to be a girl baby and a boy baby. All ladies are moms, sometimes all animals with four legs are cows if big and dogs if small. Sometimes we correct them and sometimes we let them work it out for themselves but there is a time and place to mess up their thinking/reasoning by letting them know that what they thought isn't true. Just like math for example we don't talk about negative numbers to toddlers when we teach them to count and often don't even use zero since it isn't anything tangible for them to touch so we leave it out till their thinking matures a bit more.

I think we all need to be more honest with ourselves and admit that when push comes to shove so to speak we just might not react with the same ideals we let on would. Saying we would work with any child to integrate them is a lie based on the number of people that have posted they have terminated kids who cried too much, came too sporadically, didn't follow our expected protocol etc. That is why there is no set program for home daycare and why as independent caregivers we are pushing so hard to keep it that way. There is a home for every child and I admit mine is not always it. I think too often sometimes we give replies that are really about confirming to ourselves that we are doing it right. No one is perfect but there will always be that feeling that if you are doing something different that one of us is right and one of us is wrong and well it can't be me that is wrong so it must be you. Different is not right or wrong it is just different and just as kids are different so are providers.

momofnerds
09-07-2013, 05:29 AM
please close this thread, its useless now and waaaaay of topic.

jammiesandtea
09-07-2013, 08:04 AM
please close this thread, its useless now and waaaaay of topic.

I have to disagree with you on that, momofnerds. It's very much ON the topic of our differences and how to manage them, as well as some of the specific issues or "cases" that we've been struggling with. I feel that if anybody still has points they wish to make, or elements of their previous statements that they wish to clarify, most of us here still wish to hear/read them, and for those who don't, just skip this thread and please let's stop closing or removing threads if people still have anything reasonably sane and non-abusive to contribute.

mamaof4
09-07-2013, 12:56 PM
I think this discussion can be great for the board as a whole, as long as we remember to be open minded etc.

I do believe that closing threads/removing posts is sometimes necessary. Often I close/remove threads at the request of the poster or someone who was offended by it. Sometimes if a thread is getting contentious I close it until I can get to it to read through it more carefully later -- IE when I was at the doctor earlier this week and I couldn't get to read through everything at once.

Momof4
09-15-2013, 08:57 PM
Wow, look what happens when I leave the country for 2 weeks! Hmmmm, what a read! I know for a fact that Judy is a passionate supporter of all quality, dedicated, no-nonsense, clear thinking caregivers. She has no tolerance for the caregivers who will let clients walk all over them without researching and taking good advice and I'm so glad because she saved me in my first year of business. She helped me grow a backbone, make a great contract, fair policies, rates and then I developed my own routines and adapted all of her good advice to fit my circumstances. She also saved me from the "unicorn" provider who steered me in the wrong direction and almost put me out of business in my first year, that was a close one! Thank goodness I realized who actually knew what she was talking about and who was blowing rainbows out of her butt!

That's why I joined the forum on daycarebear and have been a very regular poster. I want to pay it forward and help others with the knowledge that I've acquired over the years. But I haven't been posting as much lately. I have to agree with Judy wholeheartedly and don't think that posts by caregivers or parents should be deleted unless they are blatantly abusive and bullying. There have been some of those posts/threads over the past year that made me very angry and some of them were mentioned in this thread. However, I too believe that we are here to support each other and should never judge or ridicule another caregiver.

Skysue
09-15-2013, 10:19 PM
I never realised that mama4 and momof4 were different people before. OMG have I ever been confused! Explains a lot! LoL

betsy
09-16-2013, 05:13 AM
Where can Judy be reached? Does she have a blog site? Can anyone give it please?

giraffe
09-16-2013, 07:51 AM
She has a link to her blog on the bottom of her posts

betsy
09-17-2013, 07:56 AM
Imho, there shouldn't be any banning at all in all adult forums, unless in serious situations such as stalking and threatening another member, etc. But if it's just for expression of opinion(s), we should be adult enough to handle situations like those - what more when we're used to dealing with children - do we need to be babysat, as well?

Even with strange personalities like Darasmommy - I wouldn't have banned her. A successful forum thrives in free expression. A "sanitized" forum will only result in being stale, and censorship eventually will kill it.

There is such a style called satirical writing - anyway, philosophically speaking, it's almost impossible to practice fairness if we uphold a group's taste over others! Yes, what is disrespectful to others may not be to some. But if you bow down to the dictates of this group, then you (and the offended group) end up censoring and dictating what the rest of us should and shouldn't read. I'm not trying to be divisive....I'm just trying to state a point.

I think we should all be treated like adults. Children - or those who behave like children (like Darasmommy) will be treated as such by those who'd want to engage them. There is always that "ignore" button. If someone's style is not to our liking, then she is just a click away from being gone. Use the finger.....I didn't mean in that rude way!
The ignore button! :laugh::laugh:

jammiesandtea
09-17-2013, 11:30 AM
Imho, there shouldn't be any banning at all in all adult forums, unless in serious situations such as stalking and threatening another member, etc. But if it's just for expression of opinion(s), we should be adult enough to handle situations like those - what more when we're used to dealing with children - do we need to be babysat, as well?

Even with strange personalities like Darasmommy - I wouldn't have banned her. A successful forum thrives in free expression. A "sanitized" forum will only result in being stale, and censorship eventually will kill it.

There is such a style called satirical writing - anyway, philosophically speaking, it's almost impossible to practice fairness if we uphold a group's taste over others! Yes, what is disrespectful to others may not be to some. But if you bow down to the dictates of this group, then you (and the offended group) end up censoring and dictating what the rest of us should and shouldn't read. I'm not trying to be divisive....I'm just trying to state a point.

I think we should all be treated like adults. Children - or those who behave like children (like Darasmommy) will be treated as such by those who'd want to engage them. There is always that "ignore" button. If someone's style is not to our liking, then she is just a click away from being gone. Use the finger.....I didn't mean in that rude way!
The ignore button! :laugh::laugh:


:yes: I really agree with this, particularly the parts I bold-highlighted.

We have a few different caregiver types or styles on this board, and the fact is that some are agreed with and seen as "good" or "appropriate" by the mod of this forum, and some are not. I'm not talking about truly abusive or threatening posters. Obviously, posts or people like that are unacceptable and unwelcome in any gathering of civilized people, on or offline. But those of us who are a little more "old school", and choose to incorporate a little more no-nonsense into our parenting, our daycare providing, and our advice giving, are scolded as too harsh, "disrespectful" or "unhelpful". The truth is, if you censor and dictate that we can only write in your preferred gentle and non-judgmental style, you're going to be left with a forum that is very one-sided and unbalanced, and in many cases, unhelpful, because sometimes what a parent or a caregiver needs to hear is the unvarnished, un-sugarcoated, tough-love TRUTH, and many times that cannot be transmitted nearly as effectively with a hand-holding validation of their current method or way of looking at something.

In addition, by catering to the few who get hurt feelings so easily, you're depriving all the rest of the opportunity to participate in an adult conversation of differing opinions, styles, and contributions, and effectively dismissing their own maturity and ability to judge for THEMSELVES the value of the post, and to exercise their right to skip over it and keep scrolling if they don't like it or agree, or to click ignore on a poster they don't wish to hear from permanently.

Can't we have a forum where adults with our own minds, opinions, and abilities to scroll past what we don't care for, can have conversations that are diverse in style, content, and personality?

Momof4
09-17-2013, 04:36 PM
I definitely agree with you ladies about freedom of speech and that we are all adults who shouldn't have to be reminded to be nice or to have our posts deleted for speaking our minds honestly. However, in the case of darasmommy, she was on full out attack mode and I agree that she had to be banned from the forum. However, deleting her posts just confused a lot of people. I usually don't get on this site until late in the day and if things have been deleted, I'm confused!

I don't always agree with everyone but I respect others opinions, even if they don't think the way I think. How can we learn if we don't keep an open mind? If I don't understand something, then I ask people what they meant to say. If I completely disagree with someone I state my opinion, but hopefully everyone knows that I always mean to be respectful.

betsy
09-18-2013, 04:53 AM
However, deleting her posts just confused a lot of people. I usually don't get on this site until late in the day and if things have been deleted, I'm confused!

Yes, I agree that posts shouldn't be deleted - especially when it's something that's being talked about by others! I don't get the chance to access the forum to keep track of everything that's going on. Not only will it confuse me - but it will make me feel like I'm "out of the loop," an "outsider" who's not in with the juicy details.

Anyway, those threads (with all the posts in them) serve a purpose. We learn and understand from them...you read someone mentioning them and you browse to search for the mentioned thread, and you catch up!
That's how I understood what the commotion about Darasmommy was all about! Should I just take someone's word for it if someone says a poster named Darasmommy is full of venom? Of course not!

Like it or not, all the posts and characters that come in are all part of the history of a forum.

Besides, I think I can think for myself what is socially acceptable or not.

betsy
09-18-2013, 05:08 AM
Still about deletion of controversial posts (and characters):

Keeping those posts intact for everyone to read is punishment enough, I think. Immortalising the stupidity of a poster sticks to the persona of the offender....and it's displayed on-line for all the world to see!
In all its laughable and shameful glory! :D

Thus, it's posters beware what you write, and how you behave on-line.
Anonymity is not fully guaranteed, what with all the on-line hackings we read lately.

Anyway, forums should create a separate section for their problematic threads/posters: the Controversial Files. I bet you'll see a high viewer count in that section. :laugh:

dodge__driver11
09-18-2013, 08:58 AM
LOL Betsy....

You're funny.

I remember when I first came here and would post about certain things, rather than it turning into a healthy debate and differing ways to do things...It looked and felt as if it was a full on attack on who I was or the way I raised my child. No matter how much I explained the hole got deeper, and hate came out to rear its lovely head....When in reality I just wanted an adult chat and opinion. (not everyone did this, but some sure did)