Having trouble deciding if I am done with day care or just having a bad month :(

[eoinsmom]

So I've been running a dayhome for the past 4 years and this last month has just been terrible. I find myself annoyed by the kids and just generally grumpy. How do you know when you are just "done"? Or is it just my group? Ugh, I am just not feeling the love for kids right now. I thought it would get better after the summer, since all my part time crazy schedule kids left and I was going back to two sibling groups of full time kids. My two 3 year olds and their two 1 year old sibilings. But they are driving me crazy! The 3 year olds are moody and pouty, one is constantly hitting, and we had a week where he pooped his pants (he'd just look at me and say I'm pooping in my pants - and is completely potty trained...grrr), he has no concept of personal space and will get in the other kids faces, or walk up and start smacking them....and his baby sister is the same way, pulls hair, smacks the other kids, grabby with toys. The thing is, I don't know if getting rid of these two would make that much of a difference....maybe I'd still be tired of kids in general and ready to get back to some other kind of work. Honestly, I am a bit terrified of looking for work again after being out of the professional world for 4 years. I've been contemplating giving notice that I am closing as of the end of Jan 2014. Is that enough notice for people? I feel bad too because the one family just came back full time in Sept. I was going to hold off on my "retirement" until next Sept, as my son will be in grade 1 then and I would be more likely able to find part time work around his school hours. Right now, Kindergarten is only from 8-1040, so finding a job in those hours would be impossible. :unsure:

[2cuteboys]

I think January 2014 is lots of notice! If you can take the lost income for few months, I'd suggest terminating the problem siblings and seeing how that goes for a month or so. Then, depending on how you feel it's going, you can either find a couple more clients, or give your other siblings notice. Just to help you stick it out until September.

Even if you don't think it'll be any better without these siblings, it might still be worth a shot, especially if it's going to be tough finding work after you close. It's funny how a little change can make a huge difference.

[2cuteboys]

Of course if you aren't looking for advice and just want to commiserate...

I SO HEAR YOU!

I've felt like that once a month since I started!

[apples and bananas]

yes... I've feel like that now. And I was just told one of my parents is having another one so now I'm wondering if I want to just phase out once she's on mat leave.

I think it's the winter coming. I'm having the worst time getting back into routine. I don't want to craft, Lunches look the same every day. UGH.

I have a couple of unexpected days off in the next 2 weeks so I'm just hoping that get's me through to Christmas.

My advise to you would be to deal with one thing at a time. Deal with the hitting, pooping, grabby child as you would with any child. Get the parents on board and start building a reason to terminate or build them into amazing clients. Then work on the rest from there.

And... take time to really think about your alternative... whatever that is. Just to see if the grass really is greener.

[eoinsmom]

Thanks for the replies ladies, I've been thinking about this for a month or so and mostly struggle with feeling like I'm letting my families down. I've had then since I opened my doors almost four years ago, and they both just returned after mat leaves. I've done work in my other field, Adoptions social work, all the while in evening and weekends and I'm feeling a bit burnt. I'd like to do more of my Adoptions work, but it is contact and no guaranteed income which is scary. I'm considering getting rid of the two full time families and keeping my two part time kids and seeing if I can make up the lost income in my other job if I have more time to devote to it. Just scary since I still have student loans and car payments!

[eoinsmom]

And yes, the looming winter is definitely getting me down. All I can think about is how I'm going to be stuck in my house all winter long with these kids....

[Momof4]

Eoinsmom, I have 4 great kids in care right now and 1 that is pushing me to my limits and I'm exhausted by lunchtime daily. I spoke to his parents about fixing things just this Monday and they are going to do their part. If they hadn't been receptive to my little TALK about the problems and willing to help make their child stop the behaviour that is bothering all of us I would be thinking about termination. That's my rule: If the parents help I keep trying.

In other words, I also feel your pain. But read my rule again and think about it!

If you decide to quit, make sure it's what YOU want to do, not that you are being driven to it by a family that could be replaced with better behaved children, ok?

[playfelt]

Not sure if the three year old stayed with you during mat leave but for sure everyone is learning a new hierarchy, etc. It sounds like the two siblings are allowed to rough house at home in the name of "play" and do not know when to stop it.

What about suggesting to the parent that the older child may have outgrown the program and be ready to move to a preschool/daycare centre. That would separate the kids during the day and give each one time to do their own thing. I would imagine the younger one will settle down with some firmness on your part once the older sibling - likely the instigator is gone. Also speak to the parent about the behaviour and how it is not acceptable at daycare and that only if they put a stop to it at home will be able to be stopped at daycare and that if it doesn't then the older child needs to move on away from the younger one.

When we are irritated by our co-workers we don't want to work there anymore and for daycare providers our daycare kids become our co-workers of sorts as we share the same space, resources, facilities and interact. I am finding that I am getting frustrated some days because it seems like we accomplish nothing beyond changing diapers, feeding, napping as in nothing fun. I do miss having the older kids who could follow rules and sing along with me and not look confused when I try to do anything academic.

For sure getting rid of those that irritate us the most does make for much more enjoyable day. I would start there before deciding that it is time to quit totally.

[lotssoflove]

I had almost a year of dealing with the feeling I should shut my doors. I too run two jobs, and have 14 to 15 hour days and am burnt out. My poor kids hardy get to see me in a good mood. Ive been doing it for 9 years now and it really does have to do with the kids and giving yourself a break. If the socal work/adoption stuff is what you truly feel then then phase out the daycare slowly. I know it will be hard but coming up with a plan of attack of if you get more work with the adoption stuff in the next three months I will par back to the part time kids does help. Good luck! :)

[eoinsmom]

The older kid came one or two days a week during mat leave, so its not totally new. He goes to preschool two mornings a week now as well as my place. The two siblings definitely do rough house at home, the little one laughs and giggles and instigates it as well. they both also scream like banshees during quiet rest time, often after only having slept an hour, waking up the other kids. I've been on them since day one with this, as it is not acceptable. The baby is also a food thrower, who wants to eat walking all over and screams when i take her out of her chair after the first toss of food. I have a feeling its a bit of a free for all at home, with food and naps. They both have piercing screams of protest when they don't get what they want, ESP with did food mooching and begging between meals. Can you tell I'm not impressed over all? Its almost like mom gave up with the second kid. Kid #2 is also crazy busy, walks, climbs everything, non stop activity.

[eoinsmom]

I am pretty strict with what i expect in terms of behavior, and the other kids all adapted quickly.

[playfelt]

Sounds like the mom is exhausted and just doesn't care as long as no one gets too badly hurt and gives in rather than listening to the screaming. Do you have enough rapport with the mom to ask about life at home as in mentioning the things that are not allowed at daycare and what they kids are doing that isn't allowed and ask her how she handles it at home when they do it. Let on you are looking for helpful answers but when she just laughs and say well I give in to make them stop screaming at least you will know where it comes from. Then it is up to you to decide if you can work with the mom to make it stop or find ways to limit it at your house.

If the older child goes to preschool even some days they may very well be bored on the other days because they are now used to playing just with lots of peers and no babies. I would probably try to set up my playroom so that I had one end for older kids and other end for younger kids and a couch for me in the middle to referee from. If they don't have access to each other it eliminates some of the temptations. Then it becomes dealing with only each child individually in how they treat their peers. Maybe some time apart for the kids would be good with the older one going to a program. You will have a better chance of changing the behaviour of the youngest probably.

[eoinsmom]

I've had a few conversations with mom about his behaviour, and she says they are working on it at home too as they find his behaviour has escalated in terms of aggressiveness in the last 3-4 months. However, they are spankers, and I don't know if this is helping or hindering the situation, and I doubt I am going to be able to change their view on this as it is quite the hot topic in parenting! I think I am just finding it a bit draining to have to constantly be on watch. Some days I can't leave him alone for even a minute to play with the other kids (ages 3, 5, 5) as he will instantly start something. He just does not have that social cue filter that says " maybe I shouldn't just walk up to the other kids and hit them to see if they'll play with me". You think he'd connect it that once he smacks the older kids, they aren't going to want to play with him, but he just keeps on doing it. Or following them around screaming, jabbering and in their space when they have said they don't want to play with him. And every meal time it he and his sister start a squealing match, which is just not ok for me; at my house we don't scream and growl and make loud, disruptive noises at the table; or stand on our chairs, etc. I don't know how many times he has fallen off a chair because he is fooling around. They are an extremely busy family, and often eat on the run in the evening because either mom, dad or the boy have some activity almost every day of the week. The more I think about it and write it out here, the more I am thinking I will let them go and see how things play out with my remaining kids. I am stressed to the max, I keep getting flare ups of iritis in my eye (inflamed iris) which is painful and ends up with me taking several trips a week to the optometrist to monitor and treat so it doesn't cause eye damage and vision issues. I still just feel awful that I agreed to take them on only in September and am "quitting" already. They drive 15 minutes out of their way to bring the kids here, the family moved to another community but liked my dayhome and so continue to come. And they have enrolled boy into preschool in our community instead of somewhere closer to their home.

[bright sparks]

I think it's great that you care about his family but let's be clear that you should not feel guilty about the length of their drive or where they chose to send him to preschool. They are only thinking of themselves and what works best for them in terms of childcare. Even the kindest daycare parents are still putting their needs first, so if you don't start looking after yourself as number 1, then things will likely get worse. It sounds to me that you have already made your mind up about quitting and are looking for reassurance that you are making the right decision. If this is effecting your health and you are not happy, then I think you either change the entire dynamic of your group quickly, or you give notice.

I always find the most problems are with siblings. I had a pair and just recently the older one went to full time kindergarten and now the 2 year old is a dream but before hand they would rough play, egg each other on and were just dreadful. I had another pair where the youngest was such a wimp and the older sister would comfort her constantly so the younger one would cry for everything or run to the sister all the time and for everything, this obviously hindered her independence skills and ability to self sooth. Not all siblings are bad but you obviously have a right pair. If you are doing all you can and are seeing no change then mum and dad are most likely not being consistent with discipline at home or the spanking is actually not working and creating a bigger problem and you are probably wasting your energy which really only results in negative repercussions for you.

I think 4 weeks notice is enough to give and although things may be challenging at first in your new career path, I imagine that you will feel a huge sense of relief and revitalised. Good Luck.

[eoinsmom]

You're right, I think I have made my mind up and just needed some feedback. This morning we've already had a tantrum from the 3 year old when I told him no tv, and the 1 year old has been constantly pushing my other 1 year old over and pulling her hair, not to mention pulling my cat's tail and squishing the cat. Now its just a matter of me giving notice. I would really like to tell them tomorrow, with an end date of Dec 20 as thats my last day before xmas break. Is that enough notice? Is that a reasonable amount of time to find a new caregiver, or would you be ticked off since its right around Christmas?

[torontokids]

I'd give them 2 weeks. What does your contract state?

[dodge__driver11]

I am sure you already know this, but when you feel you are done, you are done :) Never force it--its detrimental to everyone--I just hope that your finances will be okay as you move on to your next chapter :)

Also I would give at least one month.

[playfelt]

That is a more than fair end date. Also let them know that you will not hold them to that date in the sense of if they find someone sooner then they are free to go. I probably would give a date of mid to end of Nov allowing you to interview to fill the spaces with kids and get them in and settled before Christmas so come January you will know where everything stands.

The fact you have had conversations with the parents about the behaviour and they have it at home too they should not be surprised. Reason for termination is now the safety of the other children in the sense that it is one thing for the siblings to attack each other but another to start doing the same to the other children in care as well as the daycare pets. You can no longer keep them safe from the cat retaliating and who would blame it for scratching or nipping to get free. You have an obligation to the other kids to keep them from getting bullied.

Are the parents disciplining both kids or just the older one thinking the baby is not the instigator?

[Crayola kiddies]

I'm confused .... Is the notice to the family with the siblings terminating care and then you are carrying on with the children you have left or is the notice that you are shutting your daycare business down and everyone with have to find new arrangements?
If its the first one them I would give two weeks notice or whatever you have in your contract for notice of termination but if its the second one then I would still give the two week notice to the siblings and give about 6-8 weeks for the rest.

[2cuteboys]

If it's notice to terminate I would not give that much time. If you're already this miserable, why prolong it? I'd give a months notice. I think that's more than enough time, and what if it were the other way around - would they give you 2.5 months to find a replacement?

Good luck!

[daycaremom9]

I don't really have any advice other than what the other ladies have suggested. Just intrigued with the adoption work that you do?

[eoinsmom]

I am a social worker, I do contracted home assessments for Adoptions, foster care, kin care, etc. I love that work, just isn't always steady enough to be full time

[eoinsmom]

I would definitely not hold them to that date if they found a replacement center earlier. My understanding is that they discipline the older child, baby is still tiny and cute and gets let off the hook for the most part. The lack of social respect is just so frustrating, as all the other kids get it and can interact nicely with each other. These two are just brutes, which was nice in some ways as they would trip and get up without a fuss, but they also are so rough with the other kids.

[eoinsmom]

I'm confused .... Is the notice to the family with the siblings terminating care and then you are carrying on with the children you have left or is the notice that you are shutting your daycare business down and everyone with have to find new arrangements?
If its the first one them I would give two weeks notice or whatever you have in your contract for notice of termination but if its the second one then I would still give the two week notice to the siblings and give about 6-8 weeks for the rest.

After thinking about it all, and the days where I did not have these two and how much calmer the house was, I think it is this sibling group that is the source of my bad mood. When I just have my other 4, everyone gets along, there is hardly any crying, everyone has good naps....it is just a different house. I think cutting my group to 4 kids and getting rid of these two is the way to go

[mickyc]

I think it is just your group of kids. I have had a bit of changeover in the past while and without one boy that I used to have things are so much better. I have more interest in playing with the kids, doing arts/crafts and have begun to enjoy my days more.

[Crayola kiddies]

After thinking about it all, and the days where I did not have these two and how much calmer the house was, I think it is this sibling group that is the source of my bad mood. When I just have my other 4, everyone gets along, there is hardly any crying, everyone has good naps....it is just a different house. I think cutting my group to 4 kids and getting rid of these two is the way to go

I totally get that !!!!! I had a dcb last year that was just a handful and he was off sick for a whole week and it was like the light went on .... 2-week notice was given when they returned and what a relief it was ....... I didn't realize what a nightmare it was until he wasn't here for a week .... I was calm, and stress free and I think I might have even smiled once or twice. It's been smooth sailing ever since. They have come to visit in the evenings twice since then and he turns my playroom right upside down and it reminds me all over again what my days were like. The next day I give my current dcks an extra hug or two.

[eoinsmom]

So we had a couple good days last week (Thursday dcb was in preschool for the morning, and Friday my other two didn't show up so I had less kids) and decided to wait and see how the rest of the month played out before making a final decision on these two siblings.....well, its been temper tantrums every day from the 3 yr old this week :( Yesterday he even had to leave preschool. The teacher asked him to come out of the playhouse and I guess he started a full on cry/whine, and then told the teacher he was sick and needed to go home!! So I got called and had to go pick him up, and miraculously he was feeling better as soon as we got back to my house. Mom had been called by the preschool too, and I filled her in on what I had been told by the teacher, and informed her that he now was saying he felt just fine and had asked to watch tv and have a snack. In my house, if you say you are sick and have to leave school, you go to bed, no tv and no playing with friends. Told mom my thoughts were he didn't get his way and used the 'sick' excuse, mentioning the temper tantrums this past few weeks whenever he has been told no or asked to do something. Mom agreed and says its the same at home, and yep, put him in bed. So he spent all day in bed yesterday at my house, and was not happy. This morning, who shows up throwing a tantrum before he's even in the door? Apparently mad that dad walked him up to the door instead of mom. I was going to take him and his sister out this morning while the others are in school, but no way is that happening now. Mom is saying that he is upset and throwing fits because she was away for 4 days last week on a holiday and he misses her. I am just dumbfounded that a 3 year old used the I'm sick line to get out of school. :ohmy:

[Crayola kiddies]

My contract states that if a child is too sick for school then they are too sick for daycare. It's not your job to go get him from school ... That's what parents are for. If he is as bad as you say then for sure the school would be happy to get rid of him for the day. No wonder you are stressed out ! One of the many reasons I don't do school age care anymore..... Once they hit school age they go elsewhere. Simple

[eoinsmom]

I don't do school age once they are in kindergarten, did not have good experiences with 6/7 year olds. This is preschool, which I accomodate as long as parents arrange transportation to/from. I have a feeling the teacher wanted to get rid of him yesterday too, and likely asked him if he felt sick and needed her to call mom. just having a snack now and baby sister looked at me then threw her cup at me. Its been two months of me consistently taking her out of her chair the second she throws food or her cup and she still does it. Honestly these kids are the toughest I've had. They both still throw tantrums at nap time, wake up early and scream every day; I've had to just move them to the farthest room from the other kids as they don't stop even with verbal reprimands and removal of privileges . I've never had things go on this long before, its been two months and they are full time kids, so no part time excuse. DCB even came the whole last year part time while mom was on mat leave.

[eoinsmom]

and if he had actually been sick, I would have sent him home. Once I assessed him and realized he was not in fact ill, but just wanted to leave school I didn't think rewarding the behaviour by letting him go home would help anyone. I don't know, he's not my child but it really irked me that this incident happened and I wanted him to have some kind of consequence for the behaviour.

[Crayola kiddies]

I agree .... I would have had a consequence for him too.... I don't take that crap from my own kids I certainly won't take it from someone else's. when this kid throws her food or cup have you tried taking ahold of this little girls hands and in a mean face and a louder then normal voice said "no throwing food " and put the item back and when she tries it again repeat and say it again and louder make sure she knows you mean business. I wouldn't take her down that's probably what she wants. I stopped all my kids from throwing food right away using this method.

[eoinsmom]

Thx, I've tried a few different things with her re: the throwing food. I think what drives it is that she doesn't want to be in a highchair, she wants to eat while walking around. When I take her out of the chair after throwing something she tries to steal stuff off her tray. Or she picks up the food off the floor and tries to eat it. I do use the mean voice and have taken things away once she makes a move to dump it. Or I will only give her one piece of food at a time. I just expected her to "get it" by now that we don't throw food on the floor. Just frustrating.

[mickyc]

I would say if these 2 are that bad they need to go. You will be amazed at how good you feel once they are gone. As far as throwing food I squeeze the child's hand and in a firm voice say no. It didn't take long for my youngest to stop doing it. If she isn't getting it then take everything away and just make her sit there until everyone else is done.

In my house too if a child is sick then they go home. It should not be you getting the child from pre-school it should be mom. If the child says they are sick at pre-school tell the teacher to phone mom for pick up.