Boundaries

[busydaycarelady]

So, I have a 5 year old in my care. If he can find a way to whine, push his parents buttons and get them to do exactly what he wants then he will do it. And they always cave. Today at lunch, dad drops him after kindergarten. Kid refuses to walk to door from car, so dad carries him. Kid wants to go home, eat a pbj and play with his own toys. Dad negotiates, tries to convince him staying at daycare is fun. I say, just leave him and he will come around. Dad won't leave til son stops pouting. I go upstairs and begin prepping lunch. Boy demands dad cones and helps me make lunch. Dad takes off shoes and starts walking into my kitchen. At which point I block his way and say, 'no need. I have it totally under control. ' he acts ticked off but leaves. Why do people give this power to their kids and where are some people boundaries? My home is my home, despite the fact I do daycare in it. Argh!

[jammiesandtea]

Some people are ridiculous. It boggles the mind.

But you handled the situation perfectly if you ask me!

[5 Little Monkeys]

whoa that is ballsy!! I would be annoyed if a parent did that too!

My 3.5 year old is the exact same way and totally runs the show in her family. Yesterday mom brought in a toy that she no longer plays with at home and was going to sell it. She brought it to me because she thought I would like it. The kids loved it and I appreciated the gesture. Dad came to pick up and she cried that she wanted the toy brought home.....so dad took it back. I hate to say it but they have raised a brat.

Last week a girl threw up just as a dad was dropping off his son. The dad cleaned up my hallway while I was helping the girl get into the bathroom to finish throwing up and I changed her. Things like that I appreciate....giving in to your child and "helping" me get lunch ready is not something I would appreciate.

[mickyc]

Crazy! I think sometimes parent's forget that this is my HOME! I don't like it when they come in and don't take off their shoes. I have another mom who lets her daughter take off upstairs with my daughter at the end of the day (daycare is totally in the basement) or sometimes she will come in and sit down and watch tv with the kids (I put the TV on for the last 15-20 minutes after we have cleaned up and we are waiting for the last few parents). Really? - go home and watch your own TV!! LOL

[apples and bananas]

Wow... I can't believe a parent tried to do that. CRAZY!!!! Good on you for controlling it and sending the parent away. You know.... if a client wants to leave my daycare because I put my foot down on boundaries... bu bye!

[Other Mummy]

Whoa...that child runs the show. Imagine a client walking into your kitchen to "help" in order to appease his son. Yikes. You need to have a talk with this client.

[cfred]

Again, I guess I'll be the odd one out.....I don't get it. Aside from the dad appeasing his child, which I don't agree with, I'm not sure why all providers have a problem with clients coming inside. I'm not passing judgement, I just don't get it. I love it when my clients come in. They don't even knock, as I told them not too...just come on in. I want them to feel welcome to come into the place where their kids spend about 40-50 hours every week. They often try to just leave, but the kids pull them in to show off art work or a toy. When they come in of their own accord, they just sit in my playroom with me and chat, or hang in the kitchen while I start my family's dinner, or join me for a glass of wine if closing time. I like the personal bond with my clients and would really, really miss it if it was suddenly gone. Some have stayed for dinner or joined my family at a nearby restaurant. I go to the birthday parties and their houses for dinner or drinks. One joined me and her baby daughter in my bedroom as I did my makeup for a date....shared some girl talk. I've started walking at night with one of them and have traveled with others. I'm thrilled that there aren't professional boundaries between me and my clients and would miss my connection to them if boundaries suddenly appeared. Not that there's anything wrong with boundaries....I'm just not sure why everyone's so uncomfortable with idea of letting them down a bit. To each his own, but the personal aspect is such a huge part of my business, I couldn't fathom changing it.

.....plus, talking to an actual grown up during the work day is, in my opinion, freakin' awesome!!!

[jammiesandtea]

Cfred, if that approach works well for you, that is awesome. I mean that sincerely, even if it's not my own personal preference. I'm dying to know though, how do you manage to be close personal friends with your clients like that, without encountering any uncomfortableness when issues come up? I get choosing quality parents from the beginning whenever possible and all that... but do you never have a parent who pays late, or picks up their child late, or takes advantage of you in any of the ways that can be so common in this business... or doesn't have the same child rearing philosophy as you, and lets their kid run the show and manipulate them, for example (like in this case of the OP)? That's a huge one nowadays, I think. So many parents are subscribing to that mentality, and I find it very difficult to fill my spots with parents who discipline their kids much at all anymore, so if I were personal friends and buddy-buddy with them without boundaries, it would make it that much more awkward and difficult to deal with when there was any kind of issue. Does that not come up for you?

[cfred]

Yes, awkward moments have come up a few times in the past. During the interview, which is also very casual and friendly, this is discussed as well as the reasoning behind the contract. So, before someone even starts, they understand where I'm coming from. So far as clashing parenting styles, those who don't like the way I do things don't hire me, and vice versa. Interviews are very open, usually long and extremely friendly. Our parenting styles may not always match up completely, but both sides are willing enough to learn from each other, if that makes any sense. What I find most often is that parents appreciate my 'no nonsense' approach and the fact that I temper it with very maternal behaviour toward all the children. Many times, the parents come to me looking for advice, which is very cool. There will ALWAYS be people who are ready and willing to take advantage of you. I've had a couple. BUT, the vast majority of my clients are fantastic....really. ..golden. I currently have a roster of amazingly supportive clients....I typically do, with the odd exception.

I've found that my 'open' approach benefits me in a number of ways. First, they feel close to me and I to them...this breeds some loyalty in most people. We're friends and they care about me, which is a nice aspect to have in a client. I have a trip booked for New Zealand at the end of January for 2.5 weeks. Crappily enough, I've got a surgery that may need to happen either just before or just after. Every single client has said 'Don't worry, we'll sort it out'. All have assured me that they will not be looking elsewhere and that I must keep my vacation (if possible) in spite of the surgery. I kinda think that's awesome. If I was more rigid, perhaps the response might not have been as kind? I don't know. Plus, they're exceedingly comfortable leaving their children with me BECAUSE they know me so well. No one ever questions me or my practices....ever.

So far as parents forgetting to pay...it does happen now and then. Most of the time, it's a genuine accident. They always feel badly and offer to go home and come back, to which I typically decline....tell them to bring it Monday. None of them rip me off, none of them argue my rates, days off, vacation time, curriculum, menu.....nothing. If anything, I find them very accommodating. Jeez....one even brings me coffee every morning. Late pickups happen once in a while. I don't put an hour limit on care. I'm open from 6-6. As long as pick up happens in that time frame, it's all good. I've had 2 lates in the past year. Both felt terrible and one was unavoidable....the other showed up with cash and profuse apologizing.

I wouldn't do it any other way. It's nice to really like your clients :) But I can certainly understand why other approaches work too. This is just the best for me.

[5 Little Monkeys]

I agree, if it works for you that is great but for me, I have friends and than I have a business and they are my clients. I am friendly with them but I am not their friend. I don't add any parents to my fb as that is my personal life not my business life. It might sound harsh but it really isn't. If I worked anywhere else it would be the same. It might change a bit after I have children as I'm sure my children will be friends with the children in my dc but I still can't see it being the same kind of friendship I have with my other friends. It is a different relationship to me.

I have had a friends son in my dc at one point and it was alright but I don't think I would do it for just any friend.

I have to say though, it wouldn't sit right with me having a glass of wine with a parent and than them driving home. I know one drink isn't going to do much but there are times where one glass of wine has made me tipsy lol. I would feel extremely guilty if anything happened. A drink with your meal and then driving home is different than just a glass of wine with nothing in my opinion. Each to their own though!!

With the original scenario though, I don't think it was a problem of having the parent come in but rather why the parent was coming in. Doing things to appease your child often results in a bratty child. My parents are more than welcome to come into my home and they have seen all of my home during the interview but that doesn't mean I want them coming in and helping me do my job. Come in, drop off your child, chat and then leave. Parents wouldn't stay to help at a daycare centre and even though this is my home, my business is separate from that.

[mimi]

Ditto 5 Little Monkeys!!! I like my dc parents and we are friendly, but we are not friends. I have a dc mom who is waiting to give birth any day. She calls me to give me updates which is fine, but I am not going to call her to ask - not my business unless it involves my business.

As for the Dad accepting his son's invite into your kitchen............. .Come on Dad THINK, and parent your child. I would fine it so awkward to have another man in my kitchen for many reasons!! You handled it well!

[jammiesandtea]

Cfred, I admire your ability to find that many parents who align with you so well, follow the rules, and trust your judgment without questioning. I find there used to be more parents like that (though there were always a few bad apples, of course), but the last number of years many of the parents have been getting progressively more entitled, demanding, and unwilling to actually parent and discipline their children at all. I would describe myself very similarly to what you said about being no nonsense but also very maternal-like with the children, but I'm finding that more and more I have to keep the no nonsense part of me hidden somewhat from parents (though I would prefer not to), because when you have spaces to fill and lots of competition in the area, the parents have the upper hand, and nowadays many parents seem to have no concept of the value and importance of bringing up their kids with that no nonsense brand of instilling respect, empathy, kindness to others, and decent, cooperative behaviour. (as well as the natural pecking order of adults being the boss/leader, and children doing as they are asked/instructed. People seem to want to make children equal to adults now with respect to who runs the show and I just cannot subscribe to that.) Maybe I'm doing something wrong, in attracting this type instead of the few remaining who are still a bit more old-school. I do have one set of parents who are great... but others lately have left quite a bit to be desired.

Anyway, what you're doing sounds to be working for you. :)

As for me, I'm working on figuring out how to start a revolution in the opposite direction society has been going with respect to raising children ;) ... not as far back as regular beatings and cold/harsh/uninvolved parental style, lol... but definitely back to adults-in-charge/consistent discipline/respect for others/elders etc. Who's with me? How do we turn this around? lol :)

[mickyc]

I am with you! LOL

I totally agree with everything said!

cfred - I think it is great you have such good relationships with your parents. For myself I prefer to have boundaries. I love what I do but at the end of the day I just want my family time. I have spent the last 10 hours of my day looking after my daycare children I can't wait to spend one on one time with my daughter and my husband.

I agree with 5 little monkey's. I am friendly with my daycare parents but not friends. I have invited my daycare kids to my daughter's 3rd birthday but have told parent's they don't need to stay. My daughter has been invited to a few of the daycare kids parties as well. There is one family that requested parents to stay but the rest have not. My daughter plays soccer with the daycare kids and for the most part all the daycare parents and I sit together but not always. I did put my daughter in the same swimming lessons as another daycare child once. I have a separate facebook page for parent's to be friends with me on facebook. I prefer to keep my personal life personal.

I like my daycare parents and could see hanging out with them as friends outside of daycare but only once their children are no longer in my care. I have let my heart lead me previously and I just got used.

[5 Little Monkeys]

Jammiesandtea....I agree with what you said and I am with you!! It really is interesting to see this change in parenting happen right before our eyes. I am only almost 28 and can not believe the difference in parenting I have seen since I have started working with children and that was only 10 years ago!! It is scary to think what kind of parenting we will see in the next ten and more years.

Everybody has this self-entitled attitude and figures they have the right to do what they want without thinking of the bigger picture.....and that is sending these bratty children into the world as bratty adults!!

[Wonderwiper]

I think, like everything else in our line of work, people treat us the way we allow them too. If you don't want anyone in your house, ensure your set up makes that clear (gate in the hall etc) and nip any behavior that doesn't suit you in the bud.

My arrangement is more like CFRED, although parents have to be buzzed in. They must come to the basement to pick up their kids and I enjoy morning/end of day chit chat with them.

I have never had someone not pay on purpose. Once in a blue moon a cheque has been forgotten, I'm human too and don't mind getting it the next day.

While most daycare providers don't want to be friends with their clients, I believe it certainly helps to select families whom we could see ourselves being friends with.

[cfred]

Well said Wonderwiper. Exactly! We are treated the way we allow people to treat us. If any of my clients deliberately took advantage of me or were otherwise unpleasant clients, of course the dynamic would change....it would have to. I'm not an idiot, nor a pushover. But I have been called a 'hippie', which is fine by me. I love people and in my life, the more the merrier :) That being said, of course, I'm closer to some than others, and that's ok, but I'm always open to new friends. And really, it just eases stress for me and makes my job so much easier and more enjoyable. I find it very stressful being guarded and distant as it's completely against my nature. I've been told a time or 2 that I'm too friendly for my own good. Tempered with a contract and clear rules, it's, so far been working very well for me and my business is developing beautifully.

So far as returning to a more old school approach to child rearing...YUP!!! That's what I tout in interviews, so it's understood how things work. I'm the boss....period. I've not had a problem with parents going along with me. There's the odd issue, but nothing major. Like I said, the people who don't appreciate me or my ways mosey on pretty quickly. I will admit that I am lucky. Have had a couple clients in the past who didn't see eye to eye with me. BUT, it was rural area and I had to take people on who I probably wouldn't now. My new location allows me to cherry pick clients, so that helps. I am a bit dismayed to see some parents with their kids and how they run, pretty much wild, are completely disrespectful to their peers, elders and environment. When I see those kids and parents in interviews, they go right onto my waiting list, with a little star beside their name. NEXT! I agree completely that there are some serious changes needed. Fortunately, we're in a great position to instill our values in them....sometimes it sticks!

[mickyc]

Oh don't get me wrong I usually chit chat with my parents in the morning and at the end of the day but as far as wanting them in the other part of my home - NO.

I tend to be more strict as well. It always amazes me how the kids act when their parent's show up to pick them up. Lots of behaviour that they know is not acceptable when I am in charge. I have started speaking up now and it seems to be helping although I don't like to discipline their children when their parents are here - that SHOULD be their job.

[5 Little Monkeys]

I agree with Mickyc...I don't like to have to tell a child something when their parent is here but they are starting to do things that they know is not allowed and I have had to start speaking up.

One of the children has started to take out toys that are not out and her mom says nothing. I have extra toys on a shelf in the nap room and the mom doesn't say anything when her daughter runs in there and brings them out. It's something minor in the grand scheme of things but it drives me crazy lol

My last two kids get picked up around the same time and their parents are both ones that would allow their child to play another 20+ minutes so I bring them upstairs to my living room. We either watch tv or have books to read. When we go out to the kitchen where the entrance is I now have to stand in the doorway blocking the living room because the girls will run into the living room and their moms just stand in the kitchen talking to me or yelling to their child to come to them. I don't allow the girls past me now but they still take up to 15 minutes sometimes getting their child out the door.

Maybe I'm the crazy one but don't people want to go home and enjoy their evening off? I know I want to start my evening!! lol