FINALLY A GOOD ARTICLE in the Toronto Star!!!!

[Cadillac]

Check it out Ladies!

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2013/12/01/unlicensed_home_dayc ares_in_ontario_oppo se_regulation.html#

[playfelt]

There is a good point made in the article too. If more caregivers from around Ontario paid the $25 to join CCPRN they could truly say they represent the voice of Ontario private caregivers. The licensed sector has their representative but we need ours too. The newsletter alone from CCPRN would be worth it to be kept abreast of what is happening with the ministry.

[torontokids]

That's interesting, I just assumed I couldn't join because I wasn't in Ottawa.

[playfelt]

People from all over are members. When we moved from place to place I maintained my membership. You get a newsletter mailed to you every two months and are welcome to come to Ottawa at any time to take part in any events. They used to offer group insurance and that is why I kept membership because I was then covered anywhere in Ontario. They no longer have a group policy. Remember the membership is tax deductible. A small price to pay for updates and to help getting the voice of independent caregivers out there.

www.ccprn.com

[MonkeyPrincess]

Ok, forgive my ignorance....but can someone explain to me what makes a daycare illegal? and what exactly is the difference between unregulated and unlicensed? and all these 'un' words that the media loves to throw around to scare parents ;)

[5 Little Monkeys]

I always thought unregulated and unlicensed meant the same. An illegal daycare would be one that is running over numbers or not claiming income. Things like that. (I think lol)

[Fun&care]

I am anxious to see what is going to come of this...if I am forced to go through an agency I might not want to continue doing daycare. I don't like the idea of basically working under someone, I like this job because of the fact I am self employed. It's so obvious too that agencies are in this for the money,using this opportunity to convince the government to make all providers go with an agency because it would benefit THEM. It's annoying! At the same time I think that if they do indeed force us to go through an agency, our numbers will be cut down, many provides might decide to close their doors so where are all these kids supposed to go? So for that reason I think that we are probably safe in a way because the gov can't just make rash changes without causing an economical upheaval, right?

[Other Mummy]

I am anxious to see what is going to come of this...if I am forced to go through an agency I might not want to continue doing daycare. I don't like the idea of basically working under someone, I like this job because of the fact I am self employed. It's so obvious too that agencies are in this for the money,using this opportunity to convince the government to make all providers go with an agency because it would benefit THEM. It's annoying! At the same time I think that if they do indeed force us to go through an agency, our numbers will be cut down, many provides might decide to close their doors so where are all these kids supposed to go? So for that reason I think that we are probably safe in a way because the gov can't just make rash changes without causing an economical upheaval, right?

You are correct Fun&Care. There would be major upheaval and parents scrambling and seriously cause a ripple throughout the economy. Imagine if one day, all of us unlicensed, self employed daycare providers had to close our doors tomorrow morning. I cannot imagine the chaos it would create.

And yes, if I had to work for an agency, I would close my doors tomorrow. Have no problem with inspections and licensing once, twice, three X's a month if it allowed us to continue running our business OUR way. I do however, have a big problem with giving someone a "cut" of my earnings (Agencies).

[Sassygirl]

I agree! Finally a decent article from the Star.
I am currently pregnant with my 5th child, my youngest son is 19 months and my older ones are all 10 and over.
If these rules come into play I will have to close my door and most likely look into Social Assistance. I would need to upgrade all of my skills to get back into the workforce of my last career which was Legal Admin Assistant. I don't have the money to do that. It would also be extremely difficult to get a job in the service industry which would work around my husbands work hours so I would have to pay for daycare for 2 young children.
I understand the inspections, which I would open my door with open arms. I am CPR/First Aid Certified, my home is clean and childproofed. I understand the idea of being licensed and yikes, paying the fee to be so.
What I cannot get past is the not so much counting your own kids in your "5" under 10 rule its the 1 under 1 2 under 2 etc. That would cause me to shut my doors. Hopefully if this is implemented that is brought into consideration.

[Blackcat3168]

I am in the U.S. so forgive me if this has been asked before, but why would a provider NOT want to be licensed? What is the upside to staying unregulated or unlicensed?

Where I live, a provider can only care for ONE unrelated family's kids (1 kid or 100 as long as they are from one family) before having to be licensed.

[bright sparks]

I am in the U.S. so forgive me if this has been asked before, but why would a provider NOT want to be licensed? What is the upside to staying unregulated or unlicensed?

Where I live, a provider can only care for ONE unrelated family's kids (1 kid or 100 as long as they are from one family) before having to be licensed.

If you read sassy girls post above this sums it up nicely. I don't think any of us actually don't want to be licensed or unregulated as their are obvious benefits to being so. What none of us want is to have our numbers and age groups restricted and/or have to pay a cut to an agency. Right now I have a 9 mth old, 14mth old, 18mth old and a 2 year old. I'd have to get rid of two of my younger ones and would lose half of my income. Most daycare centres in my area do not take under 18mths so the majority of my enquiries are for 18mths and younger. It just would not be a viable option for most to keep running our home daycare businesses as we just wouldn't make close to enough money to live on after all our expenses.

Our income would go down if an agency were to take a cut of our money but our expenses would stay the same. We would in effect have to raise our rates per day by anything up to $10 a day just to compensate for this which would probably result in more people staying home and working for cash on the quiet for friends and neighbours. The restrictions that would be placed on us in order to apparently benefit the children and their parents, would likely be counterproductive and result in greater amounts of inadequate people offering home childcare for cheap, under the table, making it even harder for providers to fill spots and make a living. There is already a shortage in licensed centres so what happens to the surplus of children we can no longer care for due to the ratio restrictions? The centres pretty much always have wait lists so they won't be able to accommodate them. It will cost so much money on people having to go on Social assistance because they can not afford to work.

[Sassygirl]

Exactly Bright Sparks!!! Your last paragraph. Whats to say that numerous "babysitters" who work under the table and don't claim anything who charge cheaper rates and take on lots of kids don't start. Its a circle!
Its a completely different set of rules is it not if you claim to be a casual babysitter?

[Fun&care]

Its a completely different set of rules is it not if you claim to be a casual babysitter?

Exactly, they are just going to create more "underground" types of daycares or "babysitters", no? I agree that the 2 under 2 crap needs to go. At the end of the day, our age limit is already set at generally 1 year to 3-4 years. That seems good enough to me! I had FOUR *gasp* under the age of two last year and managed just fine. Actually is was easier to plan activities.

I don't disagree that there should be some sort of "cap" on how many kids we care for including our own. I mean there could be some with 6 young kids of their own who decided to open a daycare and that could put them at like 11 kids. There is an obvious flaw there but it's hard to say what the "magic" number should be.

[5 Little Monkeys]

I'm in MB so I am not familiar with your rules.....am I reading it right that a hdcp can have 5 children plus their own? So a dcp with 4 children of their own could potentially have 9 children for almost or the whole day? That seems like a lot to me because we have much stricter rules than that.

Here a licensed hdcp can have 8 children but 3 of those spots are school aged, so during the day they only have 5. A private hdcp can have 4 children. Both can only have 2 under 2 years. I would love for private to be able to have 5 as well though.

Obviously everyone has a different standard of living and the cost of living is different in each province. However, I think safety has to come first. Now there have been deaths in both hdc's and centres, but one does have to wonder if some of these deaths wouldn't have occurred if the number of children was lower. I am assuming this is why they are wanting to "crack down" on illegal daycares and look at lowering the limits?

If I was forced to go licensed, I most likely would in the end even though I wouldn't want too. What I do now is much better than working in the centres I did and I don't want to give that up. However, I don't know if I would fill all 8 spots. Some dcp's are quite capable of doing so but I don't feel that I would be offering quality and my best care. I like having my small group and doing lots every day. I am rarely stressed or feeling burnt out. I think if I had 8 every day I would do less and feel more stressed. That is just me though as I know my limitations. Sure I have bad days but they are few and far between.

[Mamateach]

One of the reasons I opened my own Home Daycare was because I had my son in the care of someone working under Wee Watch. This is one of those daycare agencies who provided " a safe physical environment, healthy meals, snacks and food handling, age-appropriate activities and plans in the event of an emergency." My son was NEVER taken to a playground or outside for any kind of activity. The TV was always on when I went to get him. The people who cared for him NEVER spoke English to him. When I asked what they had for snack for him she showed me a can of fruit in light syrup (over 25grams of Sugar!!) Her daughter hit and bit him constantly (she was 4). She showed up to the door in a nighty constantly!! On three occasions we went to drop him off and she didn't even answer the door! She would tell me when someone was coming to "check in on her". She knew and would prepare before hand. We would get these silly write ups saying what she was doing to help our child develop. It was all totally BS. He wasn't even old enough to do the 'booklets' they provided but they would say she was working with him on things I knew he wasn't capable of. I pulled him and quit my job and opened my own home daycare. The parents that have their children in my house can drop by whenever they want unannounced. They do have to be aware that they have to bring child home with them after dropping by because child will get upset but i do encourage it. I encourage all parents I have interviews with to check references and make sure everyone they are interviewing has CPR and criminal records check...even if they aren't choosing me. If parents want to take a walk through my house, they are more than welcome. This is of course, their child's home away from home. I would find it completely insulting to have to work 'under' an agency which failed my own child when I know I provide much better childcare without them.