Would you call for a child to be picked up ?

[Secondtimearound]

I get dkg at 6:30 am , just turned 3 , I am experienced in parenting , but I am clueless in dealing with this child. She is getting so disruptive , she is so cheeky and is getting to the point where I am one on one with her all day . Yesterday she was going around to other kids and screaming in their faces scaring them . She has a hard time playing at all but when she does she will just take over what someone else is playing with . My day home is full and there are children she could be friends with but no one enjoys playing with her. Yesterday I finally put out a blanket and gave her toys and books and she had abit of alone play ( still right with us ) she threw the toys , bit the rug under the blanket (area rug ) and started chanting "whatever" at me. So I just went on with play . I told her as soon as she stopped she could join us for circle time but she crossed her arms and sat , being very loud and just doing anything for attention . So I started circle time , looking for any break in her behaviour but she just escalated . She did stay on the blanket . She wasn't a foot from us so I just continued circle time . All day long was the same , outside time , lunch ... I know she was looking for attention so I really praised her if she was doing anything remotely appropriate . Told mom at pick up and there's no real back up there. This morning as soon as walked in the door she apologized and mom said she had leap pad taken away . But starts with the same behaviour . She has a 7 yr old sister who tells all about bad nights at home , screaming ect
This child acts like a mean 13 yr old , if I give her one on one she is happy but the minute I say no she starts . She's very manipulative in her speech and I'm wondering if I called her mom to pick her up for causing so much problems if it would make a difference in how mom handles her . If I text and say she is having a difficult morning she texts back she's bad at home , getting worse don't know why !!! I have an assistant but she is still taking up most of our time , which isn't fair to the rest of the kids . Her sister days m--- says she likes to yell at you miss c , but the things she yells are her age , "I'm going to growl at you , I'm not listening , and my favourite , whatever . She is full time and dies have issues at home , is it a phase or should I just give notice ??

[mickyc]

Honestly it sounds like you need to give notice. You will be so relieved when she is gone.

[ttremble88]

This sounds EXACTLY like my 8 year old daycare boy! Thanks goodness, he is only mornings (and full day PA days). But I to, am at my wits end with him. And the parents are the same as the ones your describing. The acknowledge the problem, but do not take steps to fix it.

[Blackcat3168]

Wow! I can't believe a 3 year old would act that way!!! What do her parents say?
I could never allow a child that was disruptive to our day and to others (the screaming in their faces) to be in my care.

I agree with the poster who said it might be time to term.

That's pretty disrespectful and rude for a 3 year old.

I'm sorry you had to deal with that.

[5 Little Monkeys]

For me, I would try to work with the parents and the child for a set amount of time (whatever you feel is appropriate) and let the parents know in the beginning that if you don't see a change by such and such date, you will have no choice but to terminate care. I would call today for pick up and explain this and explain/discuss an appropriate behaviour plan that you would like to start and would like the parents to implement as well. This plan should be made with both you and the parents input. (Things like if child does "this" then the consequence is "this". It needs to be as consistent as possible at home and at dc)

Remember that this child is only 3. If the parenting has not been there, it's not really the child's fault. Between us and the parents, we are raising children and part of that is teaching them the "do's and don'ts" of life so to speak. They don't just magically know how to behave. I am not a fan of terminating care if actions have not been made to help the child but I can understand why some providers feel this is the only choice. You know the child and family better than us so it will be up to you to decide if helping or terminating would be best.

I have a difficult child in my care right now but most of the difficulty comes from a lack of parenting so I try not to hold that against the child. I am firm and the parents know this and they say they try to be firm like me at home. Sometimes we have good weeks and sometimes we don't. At least I have interesting stories to tell my fiance about every day LOL :) (it also shows us how we DONT want to parent!! lol)

[playfelt]

I wouldn't call mom for pick up because that gives the child too much future ammo - if I misbehave I can go home and spend time with mommy.

Blanket was a good choice and if that is what it takes then let it. Missing the odd snack for not settling yet won't hurt her either so make everything in the day contigent on behaviour improvement.

Are their privileges the older sister gets the younger one doesn't like a later bedtime or a cell phone or her own computer or TV in her room, etc. Is there something that has made this child resentful. She sounds more angry than anything else.

Letting mom know a timeline for improvement of behaviour though might make her take it seriously. If she figures she manages to get through her evenings and someone else deals with her all day then mom is happy. But if she knows that her daycare arrangement is in jeopardy she might do something. She needs to find out why child is angry.

[MonkeyPrincess]

This sounds EXACTLY like my 8 year old daycare boy! Thanks goodness, he is only mornings (and full day PA days). But I to, am at my wits end with him. And the parents are the same as the ones your describing. The acknowledge the problem, but do not take steps to fix it.

Whoa! See at 8 years old, i know for a fact that they know better than to behave like that. I don't know how you can put up with it. If it were me, i think i would let him go.

[5 Little Monkeys]

I agree playfelt, I wouldn't normally send a child home for this but I think it would show mom that her dcp is serious and that this behaviour NEEDS to stop now. Inconveniencing mom might be the push she needs to take it seriously and work on a finding a solution. Like you said, mom could be thinking as long as she can drop her off at dc, her job is done. NOT the case at all!!

[playfelt]

Mom isnt' handling the evenings now so making her do a day off work might just make it worse for the child. There are potentially parenting issues at stake here too that have led to the behaviour and a day with the child could be dangerous rather than enlightening.

[Secondtimearound]

I maybe cranky but wow really ? I disagree with you playfelt but again I'm frustrated !! Last night after being told about her child's behaviour she says , oh m----- ! Then took them to mcdonalds . ( no secrets with a 7 yr old ) there is no consequences at home , I'm dealing with her behaviour myself . I mentioned to her this am drop off that I will be calling her today if I feel she is being too disruptive and she texted me , when you call .....
I texted back , while I'm hoping not to call !!! And outlined some of the behaviour and words she has been using and her answer was well she has been hanging out with older kids , then says oh that doesn't sound like her , everything at home is the same !
Oh ok so restraining order before Christmas and 'dad leaving is all dealt with then ? New guy moved in ? Ugh I know too much about their family !!! I can't keep the 7 yr old from spilling !! And I try !!! Believe me I'm not into asking a child about her home life ( besides normal conversation )
If I could raise this child , I would try !! But I don't and can only do so much !
I feel like this is too much drama for me ! Even writing this !
Like I said I'm frustrated and cranky !!

[apples and bananas]

I wouldn't call to pick up as some days this is just what our job involves. However, I would give warnings and notice as this just doesn't seem like a good fit. I wouldn't let it go on for too long. I wouldn't want to give the parent the impression that the behaviors is ok.

[Sassygirl]

I am mixed on this. I feel that it is VERY important in this field to know our limit and you sound like you are at yours with this child. We have ALL been there and I am sending you hugs right now. You must be so incredibly frustrated.
I see Playfelts point about child using getting picked up as ammo yet I do feel that if her behaviour is causing you this much stress, and its impacting the other children in your care, as well as you aren't getting any support from Mom I would be tempted to call. Keep in mind it may get worse with this child and/or Mom may just use it as a reason to pull her.
Are you able to get by financially? That is always a huge thing to consider. Go with your head and not emotion on this.
Personally, I would term this child. I would be saying to mom this is 3 strikes and I can''t allow this kind of behaviour in my home any longer, its impacting care for the others. If it goes on much longer the other kiddos may start copying the behaviour then you are in real big trouble!
Good luck!!!

[Secondtimearound]

Thank you for understanding !!! I am trying to look on the positive ! Count my blessings !!!! What other job allows me to make an income Stay home with my daughter and have my house and supper prepared each night !!!! I get to prepare lesson units ( which I love !!!) I need to remember I am in charge ! I can choose to work with a family or not !! Thank fully my income is just for extras !! ( def not bragging ) so I def have of to be thankful for !

[5 Little Monkeys]

Sassygirl...your are SOOOO right in saying we need to know our limits. If you feel that a child needs to be picked up for your sanity than make the call. I am not insinuating that this is you at all secondtimearound, but we all know the horror stories of both parents and dcproviders being pushed to their limit and than doing something they will regret forever!

I agree that kids learn quickly and the child could think "if I'm bad I get to go home" but if you do it just this once, it will hopefully show mom you are serious. Tell her if you have to call for pick up just once more, her child will be termed immediately as you can not have this disruption in your hdc when you are the only adult and are responsible for all the children

[Secondtimearound]

I was trying to give myself a pep talk !! It worked !!! I agree with both of you ! I vented here because all of you understand when no one else does ! How frustrating it can get but if I sounded out of control , I didn't mean to give that impression !! Just frustrated and Italian !
Calling mom to pick up would be my way of inconveniencing dcm as it seems as long as she can just drop off and walk away , she is not taking any of my concerns seriously ! I think the suggestion of 3 strikes is a good one ! And will prob use that !!

[5 Little Monkeys]

Just to clarify, I don't think you are at the point of doing something horrible!!! :) Just saying that we need to put an end to the stress before any of us get to that point!

[Secondtimearound]

Lol thanks !! I was horrified to think that was your impression !!

[5 Little Monkeys]

haha, sorry!!! Definitely not what I meant!

[nschildcare]

For me it would depend on how long the child has been there.

If a child has been in my care for a while, and this behaviour is newly developing, then I would attempt to nip it in the bud and deal with it here. If it continued past a few weeks, then I would chat with mom, lay out a plan, and put a reasonable date where I expected to see improvement. Maintain communication with parents, if no improvement, done. I have done this in the past. Gives parents the heads up and chance to help deal, leaves me an opening to term if it doesn't work out. If you need a pick up clause, add it. After X incidents in one day, you will be required to pick up Sally immediately. If there are X pick ups in one week, care for Sally will be terminated immediately with no refund of fees. Or something similar.

If the child is new to care and this is their 'baseline' behaviour, then I would term immediately. I just did this :S

I think that if a child's behaviour is affecting your ability to deal with the group, then it's time to get rid of the behaviour. If you can't get rid of the behaviour, then get rid of the cause. This is group care.

I really struggle with this aspect of the business. I don't feel like it's my job to parent a dck. I do feel like it's my job to support the parents' parenting by maintaining consistent behavioural expectations in my home. I can't do my job if they haven't done theirs.

[Sassygirl]

I wasn't insinuating it either Second Time Around. Just wanted to say that I know that some kids can REALLY push our buttons and it can make for really crappy days and change the whole dynamic of things with the daycare and other kids. Meant it to be that if this kid is pushing all your buttons then its time for her to go!! Not suggesting anything else LOL.
I had a school age boy when I first opened and aye aye aye I can sooo relate and he left after 3 weeks with NO support from mom either.

[Blackcat3168]

I don't care if the child figures out that she could use bad behavior to get her mom to pick up.

I also strongly disagree that some days, this kind of thing is just part of the job.

It's not part of my job. Like nschildcare said, I don't parent a child and if a parent doesn't do their job, then I can't do mine.

I provide care. Care for kids while their parents are working or in school. I don't solve behavioral issues outside the "norm" and what this little girl is doing is not normal behavior for a child her age. It's rude and unacceptable. I would NOT tolerate it one bit.

Some where, some how, this little gal has gotten the impression that this behavior can happen, be repeated or whatever. THAT is on the parent, not me.

Every time this child was out of line or that rude to others, (especially the "whatever" sassiness to the provider....HOW RUDE AND DISRESEPCTFUL!!!) the parent would be called and the child sent home.