Daytime bottles.

[bright sparks]

So I have a nearly 17mth old who is still given a daytime bottle. Mum is paranoid about reducing his milk even though he has a full 9 oz bottle in the morning and again before he goes to bed. He "apparently" has a sensitivity to cows milk although he has never been tested. We eliminated it from his diet and he was a much happier boy. That being said I'm not 100% convinced as his formula has ingredients that clearly state that they are derived from cows milk. Anyhow, he is still having an afternoon bottle when he gets up from nap not that he EVER asks for it. Following his hunger cues, he absolutely doesn't want it or even expect it. It is a formula milk that is for sensitivities and that is stage 1 so I cant imagine it does him any good, quite the contrary considering the number two ingredient is sugar! Well I have spoken to mum over the last few months about whether or not to take him off it as he isn't an infant anymore, and if he didn't have the intolerance to cows milk, he would be on that here and I would offer it in a cup at snack times. I have also addressed the fact that the bottle should be reduced as it is not good for his teeth. She said she has tried a cup and a sippy cup and he wont drink any of it and that "the dr told her" to keep him on formula till he is 2!! WTF!?!. I said that its highly likely he loves his bottle more than the milk and it is an attachment issue. He eats absolutely everything I make him and due to the lack of dairy in his diet I make sure there is kale and collards pretty much in everything I make whether its chopped up or pureed. I told mum that I would be putting the milk in a sippy for him during the day which she was fine with but since the beginning of January he hasn't had more than a few sips. Mum is all worried and I just tell her this isn't usually an issue because most parents tend to just take that bottle out rather than switch to taking the milk from a sippy. What the heck do I do? His diapers are so lose all the time and I think there is a good chance that its because he drinks to much milk....not even remotely good milk at that. He is also a very bonnie kid so there really is no cause for concern in his body weight department. Milk is not a beverage it is sustenance and when a child is eating a full and varied solid diet, the food then becomes the primary source of nutrients and the bottle is used to supplement it but this kid just doesn't need it. Thoughts Ladies?

[Lou]

My first 2 babies were formula fed and I had them weaned off the bottle by 13 months (my third is breastfed , but his daytime feeds are cut out now just morning and evening), so this isn't something I would personally encourage....but at the same time, if this is the parent's dietary request, and his dr's, then I would just continue and stop worrying about it. The recommendation is for babies to be breastfed for their first two years of life now, so I don't see the harm in the continuation of formula either. If the concern is based mostly around the suspicion of a milk protein intolerance, then I would leave that to the parent and doctor. You've already expressed your concerns to deaf ears, so I would just carry on.

[Crayola kiddies]

Do you put his hands on the cup and raise it to his mouth? I have done that with 12 month olds that were exclusively bf if didn't take long for them to figure it out however he is old and if he knows that eventually he will get a bottle he could be just stubborn .... I wouldn't give in .... I don't do bottles here unless there is a medical reason .... But I don't consider "moms paranoia" a medical reason. Once a child is eating all four food groups there is no need for formula .... The longer she waits to take that bottle away the harder it will get .... Most drs will say no bottles after 12 months .

[5 Little Monkeys]

I would continue to put the milk in a sippy cup and if he drinks it fine, if not at least you tried. You could send home the sippy cup with mom so she can see how much he is drinking or use it for the evening so it's not wasted?

There are always going to be things parents do that we wouldn't but I think some things are not up to us and in this case, I think this is one of them. As long as he drinking water and eating meals I wouldn't stress about the formula. If mom is worried she can take him to the dr and the dr will be able to see that everything else in his diet is fine and there shouldn't be reason to worry.

[mickyc]

There is no reason a child can't be off the bottle by 12 months old. They don't need all that milk! I had a girl start my daycare in sept. she was only 11 months at the time so was still on bottles (formula) and wasn't eating much at all. I kept giving her a bottle for the months of Sept/Oct/Nov. In December I mentioned to mom that in the new year I would like to get rid of the bottle all together. I know mom wasn't really on board with it but she did agree that it was my house and I could go ahead. I started in December by giving her the milk in her sippy cup. Sure she didn't like it but it wasn't long until she started eating more food. In the new year I told mom I had her off bottles here and that she didn't need to bring them anymore. I am pretty sure they still give her multiple bottles at home although she doesn't need them and would likely eat more if she didn't get so much milk. I also had a 15 month old start with me in October. I also had him weaned off by December. He ended up being sick for a week and mom wasn't giving him a bottle at home while sick so she decided to just keep him off it.

Just tell mom that at your house he will get his milk in a cup. If he has a cow's milk sensitivity would you be willing to buy different milk for him? I imagine if you asked mom to supply him milk she would just bring him formula. There is no need for formula and if she wants to feed him it at home then so be it but at your house he doesn't need it.

[bright sparks]

So what would your come back be if she says well he drinks it out of a bottle so let's go back to bottles. ???

[bright sparks]

I would continue to put the milk in a sippy cup and if he drinks it fine, if not at least you tried. You could send home the sippy cup with mom so she can see how much he is drinking or use it for the evening so it's not wasted?

There are always going to be things parents do that we wouldn't but I think some things are not up to us and in this case, I think this is one of them. As long as he drinking water and eating meals I wouldn't stress about the formula. If mom is worried she can take him to the dr and the dr will be able to see that everything else in his diet is fine and there shouldn't be reason to worry.

Just to clarify, I am not stressed about the formula, I don't want to give it to him. Also as a caregiver, I have the best interests of the child as my number one priority. This isn't a case of difference of opinions on parenting but that this quantity of milk is both unhealthy and the bottle is promoting dental issues. Also when I am the one who has to deal with this then it becomes my problem so I will speak up. This child has major separation issues which he is constantly back and forth with and he won't even hold his bottle for himself at home so his afternoon bottle is for sure a comfort thing versus an actual nutritional need. At age 12 mths formula is no longer necessary if a well balance diet is given, which it sure is here and they should only have 16-24 fl oz of milk per 24 hr period. This isn't my opinion this is Public Health Ontario guidelines. At 17 mths he is having 27 oz a day. Now I appreciate the angst surrounding adequate calcium and I get that most people think that milk is the best source but I have a child who doesn't even want his milk in the afternoon and after one day at home he returns to me clearly topped up with milk because he has had 3 loose bowel movements already!

[AmandaKDT]

Sounds like a milk protein intolerance to me, I had to deal with it with my youngest. She never had formula as I breast fed her, but she was constantly pooping (minimum of 5 times a day) and had eczema so I went totally dairy free and it fixed the problem. It takes at least 2 weeks to know if it is the problem after going off dairy totally, as the milk protein has to get fully out of their system. There is no test to do other than an elimination diet. So taking formula with dairy in it will not solve anything. It is something they can grow out of, usually by 18 months old - though my daughter can only tolerate yogurt and cheese, not cow's milk now at 21 months old.

There can also be a problem with soy as it has a similar protein to the milk protein. My daughter drinks soy milk now okay, but I avoided it before. So if the mom wants to continue formula but is concerned about a milk intolerance she going to have to get some very expensive formula that is dairy and soy free.

I personally wouldn't just go by "what the doctor" says, as I got no advice or support from my pediatrician about the intolerance, I had to figure everything out myself and do lots of research.

I know he isn't your child, but I think it is good to know about the milk intolerence stuff. I can imagine it being very frustrating, especially dealing with all the pooping. Been there, done that!!!

I would do as other have said and just put it in a cup when he is with you, if he doesn't drink it all you could just tell mom he wasn't interested.

[bright sparks]

He is on a formula specifically designed for children with difficulties in processing the intact protein found in dairy and soy. It does however contain casein which is derived from milk. I know all about this intolerance because it is one I have myself. I suggested back in late September to eliminate and as predicted he improved. However the last few weeks pooping has increase for sure. I am just going to suggest to mum that she doesn't send milk anymore as he doesn't want it and that he is getting plenty of food here and all I am doing is throwing the milk away. Hopefully she won't ask me to revert back to bottles because that would just be a move in the wrong direction.

[AmandaKDT]

He is on a formula specifically designed for children with difficulties in processing the intact protein found in dairy and soy. It does however contain casein which is derived from milk. I know all about this intolerance because it is one I have myself. I suggested back in late September to eliminate and as predicted he improved. However the last few weeks pooping has increase for sure. I am just going to suggest to mum that she doesn't send milk anymore as he doesn't want it and that he is getting plenty of food here and all I am doing is throwing the milk away. Hopefully she won't ask me to revert back to bottles because that would just be a move in the wrong direction.

So it must not be a formula meant for babies that cannot tolerate dairy protein then, if it has casein.

Good luck with the talk with mom, hopefully it works out.

[bright sparks]

It says right there on the can. I don't think the mom has even read the ingredient list. It isn't a dairy free alternative simply an easier to digest formula. We will see what she says at pick up.

[mickyc]

if she wants to revert back to bottles just don't do it. Honestly if a parent isn't on board with cutting their 17th month old child off bottles then I would just do it without them. Put the milk in a cup if he doesn't drink it then dump it out. If mom asks just say he had a bit and didn't finish it. You don't have to mention that it was in a cup.

[lotssoflove]

He is on a formula specifically designed for children with difficulties in processing the intact protein found in dairy and soy. It does however contain casein which is derived from milk. I know all about this intolerance because it is one I have myself. I suggested back in late September to eliminate and as predicted he improved. However the last few weeks pooping has increase for sure. I am just going to suggest to mum that she doesn't send milk anymore as he doesn't want it and that he is getting plenty of food here and all I am doing is throwing the milk away. Hopefully she won't ask me to revert back to bottles because that would just be a move in the wrong direction.
I Would totally agree with talking to the mom. Just simply say here he doesnt drink it and its being wasted and you dont want to waste her money.
I had a dck that drank 4 bottles a day at home at age 18 months but didnt have one here. All you can do is let her know how things work at your house when he is there and hope that she realizes that its better in the long run for her child.

good luck!

[bright sparks]

Well at pick up I told her and she just said it's because he isn't taking it in a bottle. I didn't respond to it because quite frankly I'm not getting into it with her. She doesn't heed my advice so I'm not going to waste my breath. Oh and what a surprise when I tell her he has been having loose BM's that her response was Oh he's been having dairy again a couple of teaspoons of yogurts here and there and a bit of cheese from time to time. Got to love these parents who feel that it's nothing to do with us, also their child's caregiver, to be kept in the loop when making significant dietary changes. This bloody woman!!!!

I am going to raise it again in 4 weeks and see what she says again. She uses the instant cans...how much are they a go? I waste 3 a week!!!

This is the same parent who complains and whines about sleeping because he won't sleep through the night and for the 5th time has decided to try and sleep train him again. She told me last night he cried intermitently for 1 1/2 hours and then slept through the night....that's not bad for a kid who apparently won't sleep unless mum and dad bring him into bed!! ((SIGH))

It could be worse I suppose....

[Lee-Bee]

My daughter has milk intolerance. We were told by the specialist that I need to breastfeed or give formula until age 2. 16oz a day. The soy/almond/coconut milks do not contain enough nutrients for children under age 2. My daughter reacts to formula so we'd need to buy the incredibly expensive prescription dairy free formula, therefore I will continue to breastfeed a few times a day until age 2 (or she outgrows the intolerance).

So, it is possible the doctor told them to stay on formula. The formula could be taken by cup instead of bottle...even if the child doesn't like it...the child can learn to if mom cares to make him.

That all said, I've worked for 2 doctors (mom's of 4 and 3 kids). Both of them continued their kids on formula bottles until about age 18months before bed and naps. Their kids all slept 2-4 hours per nap with a full belly, they all ate good solid meals in addition to the formula. They were both doctors yet had no problem with bottles or formula after age 1.

Different strokes for different folks. I don't see why you'd give it after a nap though...that's just replacing food, typically you'd give it before to keep the belly fuller, longer. I personally don't think a bottle or two a day messes up kids teeth. It's not like they walk around sucking on it all day. Most finish a bottle in under 5min.

[sunnydays]

I have to agree with the last poster. What difference does it make whether he drinks it from a bottle or a cup? I don't think it is any faster to drink it from a sippy cup than a bottle. As long as he isn't going to bed with it or walking around with it, etc...I have never understood what the big deal is? If this is what her doctor told her to do, then why argue? This IS actually a difference in parenting. You have your way and she has hers but this is HER child, not yours. Personally, I would not be pleased as a parent, if my child's caregiver went against what I asked them in terms of nutrition, especially with dr's advice. I also wouldn't be pleased if my provider continued to hassle me about my parenting choices. My middle child has a bottle until he was 2 because I couldn't get him to drink milk in a cup (neither could his provider) and my pediatrician told me he needed it. I had to switch daycared just before he turned 2 and when I interviewed providers, one of them rolled her eyes at me when I mentioned this. I have never forgotten how that made me feel and I certainly did not send my child to her. I think we need to be careful not to push our own parenting ideas on our daycare families. If the child is causing you problems for some reason, then discuss it for sure, but this sounds like it isn't a big deal. He drinks his bottle, you throw it in a bag for parents...end of story. I have no problem giving kids bottles if that is what their parents want. I won't let them take them to bed or walk around with them, but to me it makes little difference. Just my two cents on this!

[bright sparks]

Just to be clear folks, Medical Doctors have little to no training in nutrition. FACT!!

I appreciate your two cents Sunnydays, but no where in my posts have I said that I go against her requests as a parent nor have I ever pushed her or told her how to raise her child. When she asks me how much milk she should be giving, I answer honestly and am very clear with her that here are what the professionals say in textbooks and here is also what I know from experience working at this point with over 20 children and raising my own two, who are now teens. I am clear to all my parents that these are my opinions that I express and that they are exactly that, mine. This parent is constantly complaining about one thing or another and asking me for advice so let's make it clear, that what you are implying Sunnydays is definitely something you have read into wrong. The first half of your post implies that I am hassling the parent! or going against her which I never said I was doing. On this forum, I voiced my feelings and concerns in a safe place where I am free to express my own views with the hopes of getting some different perspectives, which I got and appreciate. Yes I am frustrated but it is not a reflection of anything other than being human, not a provider who doesn't give their all. What I do not appreciate is people jumping to conclusions and making assumptions by reading between the lines and without justification, implying that I am not a good caregiver which is In fact how I received this. You don't have to agree with me at all, but please do not make such harsh comments towards me as a caregiver based on assumption.


I also wouldn't be pleased if my provider continued to hassle me about my parenting choices. Hassle?? Are you kidding me? This parent just text me now at 7:49pm asking me for advice, so who is hassling who. I do nothing but answer her questions and work ongoing with each and every family and child. I cater to the dairy intolerance and try to work things out with the family, she is the one who feeds him dairy with no regard for telling me and keeping me informed.


Personally, I would not be pleased as a parent, if my child's caregiver went against what I asked them in terms of nutrition, especially with dr's advice The parent asked me what age she should switch the bottle for a sippy cup. I explained that IME parents typically leave the morning and bedtime bottles till approx 18mths to 2 years on average but that most children switch to cows milk at around twelve months and milk during the days is gradually eliminated once on a healthy balanced diet of whole foods and is usually done when observing the child's cues. Taking the milk out is actually the healthiest thing to do. That's not my opinion, that is fact based on many leading nutritionists and medical professionals research, but I never said that to her, because that IS my opinion and belief which I know a lot don't share based on their lack of knowledge of this info. We continued our conversation on this as she expressed that the dr had said to keep him on formula till he was 2 but he won't take milk from a sippy at home. I said I would try here as they are different cups and quite often kids act differently for parents than for others. She said this was a great idea and up until the New Year, this was going well. Is that me hassling or being pushy? Absolutely not. I made suggestions when requested to, that's all.

[bright sparks]

My daughter has milk intolerance. We were told by the specialist that I need to breastfeed or give formula until age 2. 16oz a day. The soy/almond/coconut milks do not contain enough nutrients for children under age 2. My daughter reacts to formula so we'd need to buy the incredibly expensive prescription dairy free formula, therefore I will continue to breastfeed a few times a day until age 2 (or she outgrows the intolerance).

So, it is possible the doctor told them to stay on formula. The formula could be taken by cup instead of bottle...even if the child doesn't like it...the child can learn to if mom cares to make him.

That all said, I've worked for 2 doctors (mom's of 4 and 3 kids). Both of them continued their kids on formula bottles until about age 18months before bed and naps. Their kids all slept 2-4 hours per nap with a full belly, they all ate good solid meals in addition to the formula. They were both doctors yet had no problem with bottles or formula after age 1.

Different strokes for different folks. I don't see why you'd give it after a nap though...that's just replacing food, typically you'd give it before to keep the belly fuller, longer. I personally don't think a bottle or two a day messes up kids teeth. It's not like they walk around sucking on it all day. Most finish a bottle in under 5min.

16-24oz of milk is recommended over the age of 12mths of a quality dairy milk or adequate substitute. This child is drinking 27oz at least and isn't showing signs of hunger and public health also states that it is important to take lead from each individual child's cues of hunger.

I have no doubt that the dr told her to keep him on formula till he was 2, and not anywhere in my posts am I implying that he shouldn't. I also think that if a child has eaten a hearty lunch that topping them up with formula or milk of any kind before nap is not good at all. Children are more over weight now than ever and to just plug them with high sugar formula to make them sleep longer is a disservice to them. Give milk for sustenance not for comfort. If the kid wanted the milk, he would take it from a sippy cup which hew as doing, after the option for a bottle was no longer available and they adjusted to the difference in their month. This child did adjust and now no longer takes it from a sippy, so are you honestly telling me this kid wants to drink his milk, or if he just loves his bottle?

[mickyc]

Yes sunnydays this is a difference in parenting and yes it is the parent's child but they have chosen me to be their provider in my home. Which IMO means that I parent the child in my home as I would my own. Yes I have weaned a child off of their bottle in my care without a parent doing the same at home. There is no need for a child at 18 months to be on a bottle. Yes if the child requires the milk/formula then they should be drinking it out of a cup.

Parents need to find a provider who has the same or similar parenting styles as themselves. I certainly wouldn't roll my eyes at a parent I was interviewing if they said their 2 year old was on a bottle but I can guarantee you I would likely pick a different family over them if I had a choice. Also the child would likely get weaned off the bottle here pretty quickly (if I gave it to them at all). A lot of times the bottles/soothers are comforts for the parent. My current 15 month old has a soother. She comes with it in her mouth in the morning, it goes in her bag, she gets it when she leaves (mom puts it in her mouth) and likely has it majority of the evening. She doesn't need it here. This was also the child I weaned off bottles. She still gets them at home too.

Agree with me or not but it certainly doesn't hurt the child to go without for the time they are at daycare.

brightsparks - I say feed the child the formula in a cup, quit with the bottles. Don't worry what other's say. It is your home. You are still providing the milk for the child and that is what matters. You are right, if he really wanted it he would drink it out of a cup. It is the bottle that is the real issue here.

[sunnydays]

Bright Sparks, I am sorry if I offended you with my post. Nowhere in your posts did I see that you said the mom was asking for your advice. What I understood was that you believe the child should be off the bottle and that the formula is not good for his health. You may be right, but these are your opinions based on the information you have. What I understood also is that the child is not taking the formula from the cup, so the mom wants you to continue to give it in the bottle so that he gets the full amount of formula the doctor recommended. Whether or not the doctor is right to suggest this is not really our job as providers to guess at. I have heard of many strange diagnoses from doctor's and I do believe the make mistakes, but I am not a doctor and cannot go against a doctor's recommendations unless it is my own child...then that is a decision I can make as a parent. I did not say that you are not a good provider...I am not sure where you are getting that from. I also have 19 years of parenting experience with three kids of my own and a lot of experience providing care as well. But there are many ways of doing things and it bothers me when people thing that their way is the only way. I was just trying to provide a parent's perspective. That's all. I am sorry if it came out the wrong way.

[sunnydays]

And in my case, if my provider had been able to get my son to drink his milk from a cup, I would have been all for it! We discussed it and she tried with no success. I tried many many ways to get him to do so...and eventually I was successful, but it took time. I was not attached to the bottle. I just wanted him to have his milk and decided not to make this a huge power struggle where it didn't seem necessary.