Hanging About

[Sandbox Sally]

Would anyone here charge for parents and daycare kids hanging around after closure? I have a family that I extended my hours for (NEVER AGAIN!), so it's already disruptive to my family to have dck here an hour past everyone else, but recently, dck (just turned three) has decided it's funny to run around the house, or pick up toys and refuse to put them down or just lay on the ground when her mom gets here.

Her mother is very soft, and doesn't discipline or really tell her no. I remind her in a firm voice that it's time to go home. I even say, "SandboxSally is tired. I have things to do. You have to put on your coat and leave now", with the hope that mom will get the message and get more agressive, but it doesn't happen.

The other night, they were here 35 minutes past pick up time. This now means that I am an hour and 35 minutes past my close, and it's after 7pm. I was livid. Mom came in and sat at my kitchen table, and proceeded to wash off an apple that dck plucked from my fruit bowl, and give it to her child.

Anyway, I am thinking of terminating, as the extended hours are not working here and I feel her parents are disrespectful of our agreement. Often, dad is home, but I am still expected to work the extra hour, which I think is a lot to put on me. I do get paid an extra $10 a day, but to be honest, it's no longer worth it to me.

So, my question is, would you charge extra if the family wasn't taking hints? l am now working twelve hour days, and I just want them to LEAVE. I can't have her ready at the door, as mom shows up between 6:10 and 6:40.

[Lee-Bee]

The kid would be dressed, with bag packed and in my arms when mom arrives. I'd pass her over at the door (without mom inside).

[Lee-Bee]

Have her ready at 6:10. Strapped in a highchair or something working on a puzzle or other easy to tidy toy. If she has to sit, dressed for 30min it's the kid/mom's own fault.

[mickyc]

Honestly I would tell mom that the extended time is not working anymore. There would be no way I would work longer especially for 1 child. You wont have to terminate because mom will likely find a new daycare or follow your new hours. There would be no way I would stand for that behaviour! If mom isn't taking the hint, takeover, be firm and dress her child for her. I actually had to put a child in timeout the other day when mom was picking up and letting bad behaviour happen. She took the hint and has begun to just get her child and go instead of letting him run around and misbehave.

[5 Little Monkeys]

I would tell mom that you can no longer offer the extended hours as it is conflicting with your family schedule and family time. I would let her know that she can either pick up at your normal closing time or she will have to find alternate care and that you understand if that is the option she needs to take. I would give her two weeks notice (or whatever is in your contract).

I would also ask that she texts you when she is on her way and that way you can get the child dressed (or the child can get dressed themselves depending on age)

edited...please tell me she at least asked if she could give the apple to her child??? If not, wow!! lol

[5 Little Monkeys]

Lee Bee, I hope you don't mean it's the child's fault?

30 minutes is a long time for a child to sit in a heated house with winter clothing on.

[Lee-Bee]

If the child (3yrs) is choosing to run around being silly, even after the caregiver gives firm warnings/reminders then the child does need to take responsibility. It's not a 12month old...by 3yrs they know the caregiver means business. Obviously the mom owns most of the problem...but the child is old enough to understand that because of their behavior they now have to sit and wait by the door. One would hope that after a week of this they can try again and the child will know enough to get dressed and go.

[Wonderwiper]

Yikes...no fun! Personally, I would say things have changed and I am no longer able to provide extended hours.

If you decide to continue to offer the extra hour and just want them to leave faster, is there a way you could get the child ready and hand over when mom gets there? Like a gated entry way where mom arrives so you can dress on one side and hand over the gate and off they go? Or Mom could text from driveway?

[mom-in-alberta]

AW, HECK NO!!!! :no:
That is beyond ridiculous. I have learned (through experience) that my hours are my hours for a reason. I have set my hours based on what MY FAMILY needs, and then based on what the client's needs are. Not the other way around. I would also have her dressed and ready at the door from 6:00 on. If you need to leave her coat off, so she doesn't get too hot, that works too. But I would sit by the door/entry and read stories or do puzzles with her. When mom arrives, put the coat on and hand her over, saying "Goodnight, see you tomorrow!" And then, literally close the door in her face if need be. That may seem rude, but her sitting at your table, staying insanely late and eating your food (I don't even care if she DID ask permission) trespasses over a lot of social boundaries.
If you don't stop this now, you know it will only get worse. :(

[5 Little Monkeys]

If the child (3yrs) is choosing to run around being silly, even after the caregiver gives firm warnings/reminders then the child does need to take responsibility. It's not a 12month old...by 3yrs they know the caregiver means business. Obviously the mom owns most of the problem...but the child is old enough to understand that because of their behavior they now have to sit and wait by the door. One would hope that after a week of this they can try again and the child will know enough to get dressed and go.

Sorry, I read your first comment wrong. I thought you meant it was the child's fault for the mom arriving late. Yes, she is old enough to know better. I have a couple kids who turn into totally different children once the parent shows up. They are 2.5. I tell them everyday that when mom/dad comes it is time to go and no silly business. Of course it doesn't work though because the parents aren't enforcing it. I still put more blame on the parents than the child though. They are acting like that as a result of the parenting.

It annoys me too when pick ups go late or chaotic but I try to remind myself that it's better than a child running out the door wanting to get away from me! ;) lol

[ttremble88]

When I have a 'silly' child, a 'screwing around' parent, or the last child of the day this is what I do. I get the childs shoes/boots and sweater on, grab the jacket and sit on the carpeted area that is near the front door. We sing silly songs, do flash cards, point to body parts (all depends on the age of the child) and when that door bell rings, I stand up, unlock the door, open it, walk back to the child and put the jacket on while discussing the childs day. The children all know (even my youngest daycare children) that they are NOT allowed to cross the line to the carpeted area with their boots on, so this prevents them from running away and starting a high speed (and tiring) chase.

[Secondtimearound]

I have a strict late policy thanks to the ladies on this forum , so I dress the child and have them ready ( the ones that cause problems ) doorbell rings and I open and hand over standing in the doorway ! I keep positive and friendly !!
You are doing such a long day !! Maybe have her ready !!! No entry , until it becomes the normal routine . You are staying open later for her so she should understand she is cutting into your personal time ! I might even text after and let her know about her child's day and how busy of a time it is for you !

[Busy ECE mommy]

It's not worth it to cater to the needs of one parent, and make your days so long. Impose $1/minute late fees or start looking for a new client and set an earlier closing time, so your days can finish sooner.

[Samantha33]

The kid would be dressed, with bag packed and in my arms when mom arrives. I'd pass her over at the door (without mom inside).

"Exactly". I dress pokey children and children of pokey parents, period.

[Sandbox Sally]

Thanks for your input, everyone. I have decided that I will tell the mother it isn't working any more, because, really, it isn't. :(

Just as an aside, she did not ask permission to take the apple. It's an apple, I know, but my reaction was also WOW.

I had words with her via text this past weekend. She hadn't paid me as of 11 am on Saturday, when fees are due by 6pm Friday. This happens regularly, as I said. She was squabbling with me about $10, and then suddenly, the $10 was no big deal, and I was splitting hairs. I told her firmly that from now on, even one minute after 5:30, she is charged the extra $10, and after 6:30, it'd be another $10 again. I also mentioned that it was a $30 late fee for payment past 6pm on Fridays, and that it wasn't personal, but that's what she'd be paying from hereon in. She didn't even have the manners to reply. Ugh.

You think after years of daycare, I'd learn not to do "special" as Judy says, and I'd have learned that my time is precious.

[5 Little Monkeys]

Good job Sally! Hopefully she listens better now :)

As for the apple, I would have given it to her but to be asked first would have been nice.....and for most, common sense and courtesy!! Sheesh lol

[gravy_train]

I hope it works out for you Sally - she doesn't sound like a client I would like to have. Paying late, arriving late to pick up her child and lacking common courtesy (taking food from your house without asking).
If she doesn't shape up I would seriously consider replacing her.

[bright sparks]

If I didn't terminate immediately for the long day let alone the rudeness, I would at the very least confront her about this without beating around the bush. Can I ask how she managed to stay for 35minutes? Did you not ask her to leave? I appreciate those parents hanging around past pick up time but did you lose your voice? I really am not meaning to be rude, but I simply can't understand how she managed to stay that long unless you didn't say anything to her to tie things up so she would leave. Also if I had been in MY kitchen with a guest, invited or otherwise, I would have seen the child grab the apple and taken it from her immediately and put it back. If I was passive about the incident, I would have still said " Sweety you need to ask not just take if you would like one of Sandbox Sally's apples, but now isn't the time because you need to go home for supper." Sometimes I think because we don't confront things head on, it can result in a way that we allow these things to go on to a certain extent. If we "dance around" the real issue instead of just calling a spade a spade, it just makes things worse. Why not just say, excuse me but it is already very late and I need you to be here on time as agreed and pick up to be very quick. You are well within your rights and it is not rude to say that at all. I would still be polite about the whole situation but wouldn't avoid the point for fear of the parent's response. If the parent still didn't get the hint, which I totally get happens, I would simply say "WOW its 7:05, I am closed so its time for you to go, see you in the morning" and with that I would hold the door open for them to leave. If they missed that hint, then I wouldn't invest anymore time into "STUPID". It's not a condition I have the ability to treat ;)

[Sandbox Sally]

I have issues with confrontation. I get anxious. That is the reason that I didn't tell her to leave. I am working on this.

[bright sparks]

I have issues with confrontation. I get anxious. That is the reason that I didn't tell her to leave. I am working on this.

Believe it or not I get it. I am much better in my business now, but that has come with time. I am a pushover in general as I am a caregiver by nature not just in my profession and want to help and rather than set my own boundaries and confront people when they take advantage of me, I just let them walk all over me. I am a work in progress too :) I think it's likely that this parent knows that they can take advantage of you and do it all the more and it's just not okay. This isn't a person I would want to be dealing with anymore and it sounds very much like the best thing to do is give notice and replace this child with a much more respectful family and cut out the crazy long hours. If you need to keep the child on for financial reasons, or its difficult to fill spots right now or because the child is usually a great kid, then I urge you to TRY to confront this issue in the following ways.

1. If you don't want the face to face confrontation, write the parent a letter stating pick up policy. Even have a duplicate copy with it so they have to sign and return a copy to acknowledge receipt, that they have read it and the change to their contract. State that X is your closing time so they need to have picked up and left by that time. You can make it nicey nicey by explaining that this is because it is already late and you have your own family to think of in addition to preparation for the following daycare day.

2. This is a biggy...change your pay schedule. I have said this on numerous posts. The biggest issue I find with late payment or none payment on this forum is from providers who are not paid in advance. This is good practice anyway, but for a parent who is a notoriously consistent late payer, you are more than justified to change that in your contract, effective immediately. Make sure you ask for 3 months post dated cheques for the Friday or Monday for the following 2 week period.

With any luck this will clear things up because unfortunately by not saying this to them, you are in effect letting them know that what they are doing currently is okay and without consequence. What's the worst that could happen? They'd simply give you notice instead of the other way round.

Good Luck

[jammiesandtea]

Sally, is it possible for you to gate off your entry-way so that neither child or parent can leave that area when it's time to be getting dressed and leaving? I've found that's a great way to prevent them from re-entering the rest of my house when it's time to go. With families who are prone to this, I will also stand blocking the way, using my body position to convey that going past me is not really an option. But the gate is a super easy method of maintaining the control over who enters and when.

[Sandbox Sally]

I am giving notice next Friday. I actually have a parent who wishes to start mid-March, so this is perfect timing. I am just going to say that I am no longer able to accomodate their schedule, end of story.

brightsparks, I am an experienced provider, and I do get paid up front. I did a lot of favours for this family because they sweet talked me, and at the time, I really needed to fill the spot. NEVER AGAIN. Not worth it.

[bright sparks]

I am giving notice next Friday. I actually have a parent who wishes to start mid-March, so this is perfect timing. I am just going to say that I am no longer able to accomodate their schedule, end of story.

brightsparks, I am an experienced provider, and I do get paid up front. I did a lot of favours for this family because they sweet talked me, and at the time, I really needed to fill the spot. NEVER AGAIN. Not worth it.

Perfect timing for sure! Good Luck :)

[Lou]

Wow, she sounds like a real treat!! Sounds like you've made the best decision already so I just wanted to offer you a "good luck!" and hopefully it goes well. Let us know how it goes!