Time to discharge her from care?

[SevenwatersDaughter]

Hey everyone! Hope you all had a great Mother's Day -- even those of you who may not be mothers, you still look after, nurture and raise children, so you should feel really good about that! :)

I have one almost-four-year-old girl who has been in my care for about four weeks now. It's been very challenging trying to get her to get used to the day care -- the second week she was supposed to be in my care, her dad came into town, so she stayed with him that week. Then last week, she stayed at home two days because her grandma wanted to spend time with her. I still got paid for these days, so that's not the issue.

Every time she gets dropped off she screams, clings to mom etc. I just cuddle her and talk about what we're going to do that day, and she gets over it eventually. But this kid will not eat anything I give her. And if I simply ask her nicely to eat and explain why it is important, she gets hysteric and throws a screaming/crying fit.

Today our lunch was: homemade tuna mac and cheese (whole grain macaroni noodles) with carrot sticks and pear slices and milk. As soon as she saw what was on her plate she started to cry, and I explained to her that this is what is for lunch. She went from fine to hysterical in about two seconds, and started screaming at me to make her hot dogs. I told her that this is what is for lunch today and that I won't be making her something different. She screamed, cried, flailed, basically went nuts. The other kids were disturbed by this while they were trying to eat her lunch, so I put her in a time out in the kitchen (we eat in the dining room -- but the two rooms are connected without a door in between so I could see her the whole time). She just sat in her chair (which she was buckled into thankfully) thrashing and flailing and spitting on my kitchen floor. Eventually the screaming subsided (after maybe 15 minutes of full-on fit throwing) and then I asked her if she wanted to eat now and she said no.

This girl can't life on a handful of goldfish crackers a day. I've told this to mom and the mom doesn't seem like she really knows what to do. I have asked her a couple times to bring me a list of foods her daughter likes and I will try to incorporate them into my own healthy meals to get her eating more, but she hasn't yet.

I have another picky eater, but at least she will try everything, and doesn't throw a huge fit when she doesn't want to eat -- just nibbles on her fruit or vegetables and waits for the other kids to be done eating.

The other thing about this one girl is that any time I need to discipline her (I use gentle guidance and then time outs) she throws the same kind of fit and it turns into 15-20 minutes of screaming, thrashing, flailing, spitting, crying, etc.

I've given her four weeks, but it's really only been about three with all the time she's been away. I haven't had her mom sign the contract yet because of my six-week trail period, when we can both feel free to go our separate ways.

My thoughts are: today is my pay day. Should I accept the two-week payment from her mom for the next two weeks and stick it out two more weeks to see if it gets better, or cut my losses now and tell her when she gets back today that I won't be able to keep her daughter (and of course not accept her payment)?

Thoughts and advice would be super duper appreciated!:)

[madmom]

My sister who is a dc provider but not on this forum had a 2 yr old who was the same as this child. She ate strawberries and grilled cheese and that's all. It took 6 solid weeks of sticking to her guns to get her to eat a variety of healthy foods. It was 6 weeks solid of screaming and refusing to eat! It may get better but you will have to be tough

[torontokids]

I had a DCB that ate literally nothing. He learned to eat for me or go hungry. His mom never understood why he would eat for me (he was still picky mind you but there was no fight anymore and he ate more things then before). I found with him it was very important to not make too big a deal when he did eat something because it was almost like I was pointing out his caving or something because he would stop eating that item again after he was praised. The less emotion you can attach to the eating the better. He eats or doesn't eat...don't make a big deal

[2cuteboys]

At 4 years, there is absolutely no way the child should be acting this way. I get the picky eating, but throwing an all it tantrum and flailing about, screaming for 15 minutes over it? No f-ing way (pardon my French)!!! I assume she does this often? To be honest, I'd terminate. You've given it a much more solid shot than I would have.

If you're interested in keeping her, I'd ignore the screaming behavior entirely, she does it once at mealtime, she's done, in the other room until the rest of the kids are finished. Turn her chair around so she can't see the other kids watching her, she'll feed on the attention. I'd offer her a reward for trying new food. Starting with one bite and several goldfish (or whatever), after a few days if success, one bite for one goldfish, then finish a serving and get one or two. This is a difficult process, that involves a lot of attention. Just to prepare you.

[SevenwatersDaughter]

This happens at breakfast time, morning snack, lunch time and afternoon snack. So four times a day.

[mickyc]

Do you feel like you can keep dealing with it or are you done? if you are done I would tell mom you can no longer keep her in daycare. If you are willing to keep trying then I suggest you put the food in front of her and walk away. if she decides to throw a tantrum she needs to be removed from the table and placed in timeout (why is she strapped to her chair at 4 years old?). She doesn't come out of timeout until she has quit her tantrum. When she is done then ask her if she is ready to sit and eat. If she says no then she gets nothing but must sit at the table and wait for the other kids to be finished their food or continue to sit in timeout until everyone else is done. Use your firm voice, be consistent and don't give in.

[SevenwatersDaughter]

She is strapped to a chair because if she is not, she poses a danger to herself and the other kids -- flailing around, running away, will NOT listen. I have a high table so she is in a booster seat anyway, and normally I don't strap it unless she is already throwing a fit.

MickyC, I like your advice. I think I will give it two more weeks, but I am going to be really honest with the mom today at closing time and let her know that this needs to be stopped.

[pink]

Unfortunately, the best interest for you and the children in your care is to terminate the care.

[mickyc]

Although this child is being difficult I don't believe in terminating over everything. Where do all these children end up? bouncing from daycare to daycare is not the answer either. This child needs to be taught what is acceptable behaviour and quick. I do not allow those sort of tantrum's. Children who act this way have been allowed to act this way at home. Kids learn fast what is acceptable at home and what is acceptable in a daycare home even if the rules are totally different. The difference is the provider. If you are firm and strict then the child will learn quick. They likely won't enjoy coming to your house for the first bit while they learn what is expected of them. I always say if some of my parents saw how I interact with their child they wouldn't keep their child here. It isn't that I am mean but some kids never hear NO at home and I have rules and do not allow tantrums, talking back, negotiating etc which I find so many parents allow these days.

[SevenwatersDaughter]

I'm going to give it two more weeks, but I'm going to be firm and strict (while also loving). Thanks for everyone's input!

[bright sparks]

Although this child is being difficult I don't believe in terminating over everything. Where do all these children end up? bouncing from daycare to daycare is not the answer either. This child needs to be taught what is acceptable behaviour and quick. I do not allow those sort of tantrum's. Children who act this way have been allowed to act this way at home. Kids learn fast what is acceptable at home and what is acceptable in a daycare home even if the rules are totally different. The difference is the provider. If you are firm and strict then the child will learn quick. They likely won't enjoy coming to your house for the first bit while they learn what is expected of them. I always say if some of my parents saw how I interact with their child they wouldn't keep their child here. It isn't that I am mean but some kids never hear NO at home and I have rules and do not allow tantrums, talking back, negotiating etc which I find so many parents allow these days.

I agree with what you say for the most part, but no, some kids do not learn fast even with firmness. Each child is different and personality type plays a part I think. Also if the parent's are the polar opposite of the provider then some children are worse because of this and although they may learn there are two sets of rules, may very well not adapt to them and follow them if they have a strong and stubborn personality. That is a real and common occurrence, and can be counter productive resulting in continued poor behaviour while resulting in a negative environment for the majority of the group which is completely unacceptable. I don't believe in terminating on every whim, but to not terminate because you don't like to terminate, at the expense of the majority of the group is doing the other children and their families a disservice so if that's the case then it is in the best interest of the majority to terminate. It may mean this child goes from provider to provider but that is the effect on 1 child versus another 5 or 6 and potentially more, Also another child may be more receptive to another provider. Some children are not responsive to a strict firm approach, it doesn't mean that they should be given special treatment or be tip toed around by any means, but the harshness towards them could result in awful negative consequences. It is important to remember that every child is different and should be approached as such otherwise the only one who suffers as a result in the long run is the child. This is a common problem with school age children as they are taught only to one model and if they can't get in line then they are classed as being the one with something wrong when really its not the case, it is the teachers and caregivers. Not quite the same but on the surface it is and obviously way more complicated and difficult to accommodate but in a small setting such as home care in some cases could be easily accommodated if all parties are on board and resources are made available. If the parents are not working in line with the provider and the child can not adapt to the providers way of doing things, then they really should leave. This is also the responsibilities of the parents too. If they are not doing their part then it makes things more difficult for the child and as a result the whole daycare suffers including the provider. I do not like to give up on a child but if sticking with them is at the expense of others then the best thing to do is actually cut that one child loose.

[mickyc]

I guess we will agree to disagree for the most part bright sparks. I just find everyone on this site is so quick to say terminate. Kids are work and dealing with other's people's children can be exhausting when the rules are not the same at home. Kids learn to adjust but the provider must be consistent. I have the same rules for all my kids. Yes they are all individuals but I am not about to make exceptions for any particular child/family. The rules are the rules and they are for all no matter what. I always take the same approach with my daycare kids as I did with my step kids growing up. I couldn't control what went on in their mom's home but I certainly can control what goes on here. The rules were polar opposite but after a few days the kids adjusted back into what was expected of them here. When it comes to daycare we have to give the kids a chance to adjust, hopefully get the parents on board (some situations I don't even bother with because you know it will land on deaf ears) and deal with the situation. If the provider gives it a fair shot and then doesn't see improvement and feels the need to terminate then so be it but you can just terminate just because it is difficult. Just my 2 cents.

[bright sparks]

I guess we will agree to disagree for the most part bright sparks. I just find everyone on this site is so quick to say terminate. Kids are work and dealing with other's people's children can be exhausting when the rules are not the same at home. Kids learn to adjust but the provider must be consistent. I have the same rules for all my kids. Yes they are all individuals but I am not about to make exceptions for any particular child/family. The rules are the rules and they are for all no matter what. I always take the same approach with my daycare kids as I did with my step kids growing up. I couldn't control what went on in their mom's home but I certainly can control what goes on here. The rules were polar opposite but after a few days the kids adjusted back into what was expected of them here. When it comes to daycare we have to give the kids a chance to adjust, hopefully get the parents on board (some situations I don't even bother with because you know it will land on deaf ears) and deal with the situation. If the provider gives it a fair shot and then doesn't see improvement and feels the need to terminate then so be it but you can just terminate just because it is difficult. Just my 2 cents.

I agree but it doesn't sound like this provider is just terminating because the child is difficult. Also I never said have a different set of rules but simply that each child is different and no matter how hard you persevere some children just will not work. At that point it is okay to terminate versus putting all the children through the stress of the tantrums ongoing if their is no sign of progress. I think on here it goes through phases of people wanting to terminate, but the people who generally post saying terminate are not the OP and the OP's are generally looking for support and advice on how to help the child NOT saying that they will just terminate because they have had enough. It's healthy and necessary to set boundaries. At some point you have to know when enough is enough and its best to know your boundaries prior to taking so much that you can't manage any more. It will be different for different people. Like those who have termed after just a few days of crying during transition because they couldn't handle it anymore. That's absolutely fine as they know their own limits whereas others can some how manage to put up with the screaming for weeks and sometimes months. I don't believe there is 1 single right way of doing something which means that 1 model of discipline for all children doesn't always work. If the provider isn't able to be adaptable to other methods, which doesn't in any way imply different rules or leniency for the child, then it is likely in the child's best interest for the provider to let them go to another provider who may have more luck with the child.

[nschildcare]

I would go right to removal from the table if she acted like that. Right to time out until everyone is finished. No second chances.

She is 4. She is old enough to know better.

I would have a frank talk with mom, tell her that this behaviour cannot continue. Pick a point on your calendar where you expect to see improvement. If no improvement, then decide to either try something else or move on.

Kids are able to understand that there are daycare rules and home rules. She needs to know that these are your rules and she needs to follow them. She will need consistency from you and an immediate consequence. Maybe a reminder of expected behaviour before getting up to the table. Then if she starts acting up, immediately get her down. "We don't scream at the table." Right to a quiet place to sit until snack, lunch, whatever is finished. No second chances.

She won't starve. If she's hungry, she'll behave.

[dodge__driver11]

I have a girl in my care who says "yuck" to everything.

Every time I hear it I ask her "Have you tried this?" If she says no, I have a one bite rule. 8/10 she finishes her whole plate/bowl without incident, saying that it was really yummy. My second mission with this dck is to try my best to get her to say "no thank you" as opposed to "yuck." I cannot stand that word...(I have my reasons, lol)

I also have another girl who just sat there without eating. I set a time limit on when lunch was over, and she quickly learned that after 40 mins, (Sometimes a bit more if it was harder to eat, like pasta or something) that plates were taken away, and that she would get water instead of milk if she didn't finish.