OT- Neighbours yelling

[kassiemom]

I have these neighbours directly behind us who yell and scream at their kids as their primary way of communicating. It really bugs me, they have no filter even out in the yard when they know people can hear them. i have heard them from their front yard too. It makes me sad to hear this and I am on the fence about calling CAS.

Why I would call- They are emotionally scarring their kids by yelling at them.
they keep their curtains and blinds closed all the time
I think i heard dad spank one of them although i didn't see it.

Why i wouldn't call just yet- they would know its me and i fear for safety of my kids and dog (I've heard of people poisoning dogs through the fence)
I have never actually seen physical abuse
the yelling is more of Do this, Do that and Get over here type of things. I don't hear any derogatory things such as calling them names etc.

What would you do in my case. I know it is my responsibility if i suspect abuse but i don't know if this is abuse or just really bad parenting.

when i am outside with the kids i speak loud enough that they can hear and i am overly nice to my kids to try and show them how people actually should treat kids.

So torn

[5 Little Monkeys]

IMO, this is a case of crappy parenting but nothing that warrants a call to CFS.

Keeping blinds closed could be because they are keeping the heat out or they just like privacy. My upstairs blinds are usually closed and I would hope someone wouldn't interpret that as me being neglectful.

[Artsand crafts]

IMO, this is a case of crappy parenting but nothing that warrants a call to CFS.



I agree, this is one extreme, the other extreme is very permissive parents that let their kids whatever they want and then they are sometimes the most misbehaving kids out there. I wonder why :rolleyes: I wish I could call CAS every time I see that, but it goes again to "crappy parenting". Nothing and outsider could do about it.

It the noise bothers you, maybe you can hint your neighbors something along the lines that in between those houses you can hear almost anything. Hopefully that way they keep the noise down.

[Kellybelly83]

If you want, you can document stuff (date time, what you heard/saw), that way if you ever feel the need to call CAS down the road you have a history written down. From what you have said though, it just sounds like a family that yells. One thing that would put my mind at ease would be the fact that they don't hide it from you lol. Lots of people who abuse kids hide it- and act very nicely otherwise. I hear my neighbors yelling all the time (and I am sure they have heard me once or twice- not gonna lie!) and while it's annoying, I think well, at least I know what is going on over there. Plus I know the kids and I bet they have been told to do something a couple times before the yelling started (same here sometimes.... sigh)

It's still sad that the yelling is so much... I can't throw stones as I tend to holler when I get heated up- but that being said, it's usually after I've tried communicating in a normal voice and was not heard lol. I hate yelling, but it's definitely necessary sometimes when there are 6 kids all making noise. But yelling just because... I don't think that is healthy unless the child is hard of hearing.

Bottom line, document! And if you get a bad gut feeling, make an anonymous call.

[dodge__driver11]

Let me share an exp. with you. I had CAS called on me 2x because I "yelled at my boy, and told him no" and I know the exact incidents that they were referring to.. I in no way was hurting my child, he on the other hand was acting as if I had hurt him, by saying things like "no mommy, no don't hurt me" when I was doing nothing but standing my ground and not giving in.

Just be sure you have all your ducks in a row, and not just calling because of something that may just be a defiant child.

[mom-in-alberta]

Unless you know or TRULY suspect that they are being abused (do they have bruises or odd injuries?), this is none of your concern. How do you know that they are emotionally scarring them? Yelling may not be the most effective form of communication, but sometimes it is all people know. You said they do not call names, or otherwise degrade them. Perhaps the words that you don't hear are loving and encouraging. From what you have stated, this is about a difference of opinion on how to parent the kids. Keeping the blinds closed means nothing, except that perhaps they don't like the sunshine.

[mickyc]

I agree with everyone. This is just a difference in parenting IMO. It is not against the law to spank your own child and you yourself stated that they don't call them names or degrade them. As for keeping the blinds closed that means nothing. Most people keep the blinds closed to keep the house cool

[Lee-Bee]

Seems like poor parenting to me...not worth a CAS call.

If they have no filters for how they act outside with people around then I doubt they keep the blinds closed to abuse their children in privacy. They are either don't care to have them open (time and effort) or keep them closed to keep the sun/heat out.

I think it is a bit extreme to assume that people that yell at their kids (to do this and do that) would poison your dog and harm your children if you reported them. I can see them being annoyed and letting you know but I wouldn't expect them to take drastic measures and try to poison your dog.

As others said if you feel there may be cause for concern start documenting events now so you have details to back up a future call.

[Wonderwiper]

My mind would never make the leap from yelling and closed blinds to child abuse and poisoned dogs.

I live in a subdivision and the blinds at the back are always closed!! I also think some families just yell. It doesn't equal abuse. You said yourself they don't degrade the kids. So, while it may not be how you do things it is really none of your business. You could nicely ask them to try to be quiet as you have children sleeping.

If you see/hear abusive things that is obviously is a different story but it doesn't sound like it in this situation.

[kassiemom]

wow i had no idea that yelling was such an acceptable way of communicating, especially from people who work with kids.
we all have our moments but constant yelling and screaming is not beneficial to the children and it is really sad that this is okay by everyone. I know that calling to report them is not the most ideal situation at this point and i wouldn't call prematurely but i would rather call and have it be nothing than to watch this go on and something terrible happen.

[dodge__driver11]

If I may speak on behalf of the other posters for a sec...

WE are not saying that yelling is acceptable, we are saying have proof that ABUSE IS HAPPENING. unf, yelling is not abuse, in that sense and CAS will tell you that...I had a mom in my daycare who used to give her daughter cold showers when she peed her pants, and a social worker told me that unless she was being PHYSICALLY HURT or BRUISES OR LACK OF BASIC NEEDS BEING MET were documented that there was not a thing they could do.

Is the system strange?

Yes.

DO I like it?

No.

Not agreeing with the way someone does things is not a reason to report.

[Wonderwiper]

I'm pretty sure no one said yelling is a good parenting technique. However, it is a HUGE leap to assume abuse and animal murder.

If you are genuinely concerned go and talk to them.

[mickyc]

Honestly I think you are overstepping your boundaries if you call. There are times when parents need to raise their voice and I have also raised my voice with the daycare children as well. Really - yelling does not = abuse. If they were yelling obscenities or calling them names then that is a totally different story. I have spanked my daughter on more than one occasion in a store for unacceptable behaviour and have gotten some funny looks. Some children respond differently to different sorts of discipline, maybe they push and push their parents until their parents get mad enough to yell and then they know they have reached their limits? you don't know. I say mind your own business.

On a side note, during swimming lessons one time my daughter was acting absolutely ridiculous. We left the pool, went into the change room where I spanked her bum. She smartened right up (as she knows that is the last resort for me). I later had a lady come up to me when we were getting ready to leave. She said how she thought my parenting was great and that there are too many people these days that tippy toe around the bad behaviour and don't discipline for fear of what other's will think. I personally think that is what is wrong with the world - too many times people butt their noses in where it doesn't belong and unless there is evidence of abuse then I say leave it alone.

[torontokids]

I am a social worker and have worked with the CAS a lot with families (reunification, helping to prevent a family break down, individual and family therapy) and I have made my share of reports.

I would say, yes yelling is not the best form of communication but if the yelling is no more then just "Johnny, get over here" "Johnny, stop hitting your sister" (as I interpreted your post) then they most likely will do nothing. If your gut tells you there is more going on, you can always call CAS and ask for an anonymous consult. They will put you through to an intake worker and you can share your concerns. It is not our job to decide if something is abuse (that is the CAS' job) go with your gut as it wouldn't hurt to make the call. If they do investigate, sometimes parents are given info re: parenting courses etc.

[dodge__driver11]

Thank you tkids:)

[Fun&care]

Honestly if it were me it would really get to me too. Even if WHAT they are yelling isn't necessarily abusive, the yelling in itself IS damaging to a child. However I don't think it warrants a call to CAS unless your gut tells you that should because there isn't much they can do about yelling.

And yes we all raise our voices sometimes but that's not what OP is referring to- this is CONSTANT yelling and it has no place in parenting and really, out of respect for their neighbors I'm not sure why they think constant yelling is ok anyways.

[ttremble88]

I have to say, that I am with the majority here. Sure, yelling does not sound nice, it is not ideal, but it is not abuse. Especially when the parents are not calling the children names, or personally attacking them. My husband is, unfortunately, a 'yeller'. If my boys get out of hand, talk back, dont listen, they get his clam voice first, and if no response, they get his loud voice (or yelling). When in public, I hush him. Because, I am not a yeller. But he has a point when he says: "What they see is what they get, it is better then some of the parents who smile and ignore the behavior and then behind closed doors, beat their child". Dont get me wrong, I believe that there are more efficient ways to discipline/get a childs attention, but there are also a lot more negative ways as well.

As for the curtains. My curtains are pretty much always closed. Our living room and kitchen face the south so from sun up to sun down it is beaming in, heating up the place insanely quick.

[Lou]

I agree with the others. While it completely sucks that they here yelling all the time, it is their parenting style and as they are not name calling or making derogatory comments it won't warrant as abuse. As you mentioned that you hear this when you are outside, are you positive that they are yelling AT them? Or yelling for them? If I'm inside and my own kids are playing outside and I need one of them for something then yes, of course I raise my voice out the door to get their attention especially if they're running around yelling as kids do outside. Also, in my care right now I have 3 almost 4yrs old boys...they get hyper, silly and rough, lol. If talking doesn't work then yes I do have to raise my voice from time to time...man, it would suck to think people might consider calling CAS on me for that??

[mom-in-alberta]

wow i had no idea that yelling was such an acceptable way of communicating, especially from people who work with kids.
we all have our moments but constant yelling and screaming is not beneficial to the children and it is really sad that this is okay by everyone. I know that calling to report them is not the most ideal situation at this point and i wouldn't call prematurely but i would rather call and have it be nothing than to watch this go on and something terrible happen.



I went back and re-read our responses, and not once did anyone state that it was "acceptable" to yell. Most of us agreed that it is NOT very effective. But not everyone communicates the same. Some use loud voices, some use soft. Your idea of yelling may be different than others.
My concern is that you jumped from raised voices and drawn shades to "there must be abuse" and debating calling CFAS. Have you seen anything else that points to the fact that the children are not being cared for adequately? Are they fed? Are they supervised? Do they seem to be otherwise happy? What other signs have led you to believe there is abuse?
Please excuse us if we are appearing to attack you. But it would be grossly wrong of you to consider calling Social Services if you have nothing else to go on, but a disagreeance in how children should be parented.

[kassiemom]

Unless you know or TRULY suspect that they are being abused (do they have bruises or odd injuries?), this is none of your concern. How do you know that they are emotionally scarring them? Yelling may not be the most effective form of communication, but sometimes it is all people know. You said they do not call names, or otherwise degrade them. .

Emotional abuse is a very real thing and can scar and harm as much as physical abuse.

That being said I will continue to listen, the noise doesn't bug me its the love i have for all children and I feel so badly for the children no matter how devilish they may or may not be. its just a sad sad case

[Lee-Bee]

Emotional abuse is a very real thing and can scar and harm as much as physical abuse.

That being said I will continue to listen, the noise doesn't bug me its the love i have for all children and I feel so badly for the children no matter how devilish they may or may not be. its just a sad sad case

But emotional abuse isn't a parent yelling. Emotional abuse would be belittling the child, calling them names, and derogatory comments (that you said are not being heard). Yelling "do this and do that" instead of using an appropriate tone isn't emotional abuse. It's poor communication. Poor parenting. Ineffective yes...but it's not emotional abuse.

[5 Little Monkeys]

Kassiemom, I can understand how it must be hard to hear them yelling all the time but if it's not in anger, calling them names, mean spirited etc, than I fail to see how it is emotional abuse. I agree with lee bee, it's poor communication but not abuse.

I'm not defending yelling at children but I think almost every parent and caregiver has done it at time(s). You are only catching a glimpse into their lives and IMO, making an unfair judgement. If it concerns you, I would befriend the neighbour and/or children and get to know more about them and than decide if actual abuse is happening or not.