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View Full Version : It's Baaaack......yippee.



cfred
07-10-2014, 11:46 AM
http://news.ontario.ca/edu/en/2014/07/improving-the-safety-and-accessibility-of-child-care-1.html?utm_source=on demand

For those who are interested, a few people on FB are trying to form a coalition against Bill 143. It's a group based out of Ottawa of home providers, just like us, who want to put together a more cohesive plan to deal with this as a group, rather than a a scattered bunch of angry people spinning our wheels. For anyone who's interested, contact Heidi Higgins on FB.

https://www.facebook.com/heidi.higgins.5872

She's working on a FB site and is hopeful that it will be up and running today. I'll keep you posted on anything else I hear. I think this is a really, really good idea. We need a solid plan of action to get this sorted. This time, we can see it coming so can put something really effective together. This site is different than Providers against Bill 143 in that it's sole purpose is to communicate and put something together with as many voices as possible...not to just go in and complain to each other.

godsgirl
07-10-2014, 12:13 PM
Can I ask you a question? I honestly don't know this answer and would like a different view point other than my own.

Why are private day homes so against this Bill? Up until now I have always ran a licensed day home. However, we are expecting baby #2 and because of the limitations for the child:age ratio and the fact that as a licensed provider my own children count into my numbers I have had to make the decision to leave my agency otherwise I would have to terminate one of my amazing families.

I see the agencies desire to push this bill as they (or at least my agency liaison) has expressed that they would like to at least be on the same regulations as the private day homes in regards to numbers as they are regulated by regular visits and such where there is no one consistently making sure that those standards are kept up in private day homes. From what I understand, if this Bill is passed then licensed day homes may have child:age ratios changed as well as the possibility of not having their own children count in their numbers and be allowed to care 6 children rather 5. I also know that if a private day homes gets caught going over their numbers then the fines will be pretty hefty as well. (I could be totally out in left field with my info as well as this is just what I have read and from what our agency has told us)

What my question is, is how else will the private day homes be affected? And why are private day homes so against Bill 143?

Thanks for your enlightenment and sorry for highjacking your post :)

torontokids
07-10-2014, 12:22 PM
Depending on where you live the rules are different. I am in Ontario and to be licensed I need to be with an agency. To be with an agency then I give them a portion of my fees. Why would I want to pay them when I am doing fine on my own?

I also like working for myself, I do not want an agency telling me which clients to take and not having the power to terminate a client if I feel this is the best option.

I would be licensed (and pay a yearly licensing fee, have my daycare inspected etc) if I could do so without joining an agency.

Artsand crafts
07-10-2014, 12:28 PM
Can I ask you a question? I honestly don't know this answer and would like a different view point other than my own.

Why are private day homes so against this Bill? Up until now I have always ran a licensed day home. However, we are expecting baby #2 and because of the limitations for the child:age ratio and the fact that as a licensed provider my own children count into my numbers I have had to make the decision to leave my agency otherwise I would have to terminate one of my amazing families.

I see the agencies desire to push this bill as they (or at least my agency liaison) has expressed that they would like to at least be on the same regulations as the private day homes in regards to numbers as they are regulated by regular visits and such where there is no one consistently making sure that those standards are kept up in private day homes. From what I understand, if this Bill is passed then licensed day homes may have child:age ratios changed as well as the possibility of not having their own children count in their numbers and be allowed to care 6 children rather 5. I also know that if a private day homes gets caught going over their numbers then the fines will be pretty hefty as well. (I could be totally out in left field with my info as well as this is just what I have read and from what our agency has told us)

What my question is, is how else will the private day homes be affected? And why are private day homes so against Bill 143?

Thanks for your enlightenment and sorry for highjacking your post :)

For me it all goes down to the bottom line. Why should I give a cut of my hard earn money to an agency for doing nothing and this is what the bill is trying to do, pushing dcproviders with young children to join agencies.

I worked my first year with an agency and then I went private. Agency charged parents with infants $42. When kids got older they charged $37. I received $35/day per infant and $25/day for older toddlers and I had to open from 7AM to 6PM.

Now I open from 8AM to 5PM and charge $50/day, when parents need care up to 5:30PM they pay $57.50/day instead.

With what was left after the agency took his cut and all dc expenses I was making less that someone working at Tim Hortons. This is a labor intensive job and you have much more responsibilities and liability than some other jobs, then why should we be working for pennies.

Also age restrictions are an issue. I have had up to 4 kids under 2 at a time and feel pretty good managing the group. Most families looking for care are for 12mo, after Mat leave. It's harder finding older kids to fill up spots.

Lee-Bee
07-10-2014, 12:37 PM
If licensed I'd be making about 25dollars less per child per day

There is no way I can run my daycare for the amount licensed providers make
When I was about to open and looked into it to fill my last few spots the licensing lady told me not to bother if I had families willing to pay my fees

I don't know how you manage to feed the kids, heat the daycare, furnish it and buy all the toys and materials

My daycare is completely separate of my family area, it costs a lot to furnish and 6 months in I have a ways to go yet

Fun&care
07-10-2014, 01:12 PM
To answer your question godsgirl, aside from the major cut in pay we would take after signing on with an agency, the age restrictions would probably make it near impossible to make a decent living. The 2 under the age of 2 rule specifically would hit us hard. In the three years I have been in business maybe 5% of enquiries have been for kids aged 2 and up and the rest has all been for 12 mo. And for me, what always ends up happening is I lose them around 18 mo-2y because mom goes on mat leave with baby no 2 and I am back to the drawing board, filling a space for a 12 mo and honestly so far I always have at least 2 under 2 if not more. Our age range is already restricted to 12mo to 3-4 years....I don't understand why they want to restrict us further. Not to mention they would be cutting so many already needed spots for infants, where on earth are parents going to go?

The whole thing makes no sense on so many levels, I am just hoping that SOMEBODY in gov wakes up and smells the coffee.

Fun&care
07-10-2014, 01:15 PM
And I don't understand why agencies think they should be on the same playing field as us in terms of oversight...if oversight is what parents want, they are free to go to an agency. But the truth is many parents choose home daycare because they themselves are more than capable of checking in on us and making sure things are going smoothly. I agree that numbers and ratios are pretty inconsistent and they should be the same across the board. Right now it's extremely confusing for parents and the general public.

Artsand crafts
07-10-2014, 01:26 PM
\But the truth is many parents choose home daycare because they themselves are more than capable of checking in on us and making sure things are going smoothly.

I totally agree. Also the monthly visits I had from the agency inspectors were a joke. If I was a parent I would not be impressed with those "inspections".

I had 2 different inspectors over that year, because the first one was promoted, but they both seated on their butts during their inspections and asked me what I did during the month with the children and they filled out the parents report that looked like the inspector was actually seeing what was happening. The second inspector was very annal about me filling the daily log where I was supposed to write down what was happening everyday (which I hate it and found it just a waste of time). The only safety inspection they did was pushing the smoke detector button almost every time they visited, which my hubby does now for me for free and without me having to hand him out 30% of my salary :)

cfred
07-10-2014, 01:53 PM
My issues with agencies are the massive pay cut in exchange for, from what I've seen, rather lack lustre oversight and support. I've been in a local agency approved home. That's all I needed to see. It was dirty, in disrepair, stunk of cigarette smoke. I know there are loads of great ones, but the fact that this one was approved, to me, nullified the entire foundation of the agency cause. I'm happy to have some oversight, but I'm not willing to pay 30% for it. If I wanted to live in poverty, I'd go back to working in daycare centres, lol....I've honed my owned business savvy and enjoy running the whole show myself. I don't want someone else picking my clients, setting my fees, sorting my schedule or maintaining my menu. I have all my own equipment, post secondary education in the field and have got my business to the point where it's in demand, successful and enjoyable. Why in heaven's name would I pay someone else now for work I've already done...better than they have for that matter?! Crazy!

And I don't like the 2 under 2.....2 under 18 mos is much more reasonable.

cfred
07-10-2014, 01:55 PM
Here's the link for the Coalition of Independent Childcare Providers of Ontario

https://www.facebook.com/groups/921979917819453/923197031031075/?notif_t=group_activ ity

Lou
07-10-2014, 05:45 PM
I thought it wasn't supposed to be back until September??

playfelt
07-10-2014, 05:52 PM
Second reading will start on Monday so best to check in if you can or read the hansard report each night. Sounds like they are railroading this through and it may happen sooner than later. For those filling spaces into the Fall I am curious on the timeline for sure.

Lee-Bee
07-10-2014, 06:51 PM
So not impressed. It was one of my families that sent me a text this afternoon asking about it that brought it to my attention first.

It's already at second reading?

Crap. Am I correct that with the new rules (if they stay as presented) an unlicensed home daycare can hire a second adult and can have double the children? I don't particularly want 10 kids but it would be the only way I can keep my current crew of 5 kids aged 14-19 months. I don't want to lose this group (sure there are days I'd love to lose one or two of them lol, but I love this group).

Anyways, I am about to start interview for an ECE helper to work half days come August. But I may have to change my game plan and hire them full time and increase my number of children...not that it will be easy to fine a handful of kids over age 2. I shall do the math and see how many I need to take one to cover the cost of a second staff member.

Anyone know what the earliest possible time frame for this to come into effect is? My oldest dck won't turn 2 until mid-November.

Artsand crafts
07-10-2014, 08:38 PM
So not impressed. It was one of my families that sent me a text this afternoon asking about it that brought it to my attention first.

It's already at second reading?

Crap. Am I correct that with the new rules (if they stay as presented) an unlicensed home daycare can hire a second adult and can have double the children? I don't particularly want 10 kids but it would be the only way I can keep my current crew of 5 kids aged 14-19 months. I don't want to lose this group (sure there are days I'd love to lose one or two of them lol, but I love this group).

Anyways, I am about to start interview for an ECE helper to work half days come August. But I may have to change my game plan and hire them full time and increase my number of children...not that it will be easy to fine a handful of kids over age 2. I shall do the math and see how many I need to take one to cover the cost of a second staff member.

Anyone know what the earliest possible time frame for this to come into effect is? My oldest dck won't turn 2 until mid-November.

Before election the proposal was that with a second adult dcproviders could have up to 12 kids including their own (with 4 kids under 2yo), but ONLY if you were working for a licensed agency. This option was not available for unlicensed hdc. I was following close this section of the rule since I currently have an assistant and I think I could manage. I don't know if this has changed after the election, though.

cfred
07-10-2014, 08:45 PM
I think everyone should consider a 'day of action'. This is what's being proposed by a number of people and I think it's a good idea. A few have poo pooed the idea of striking for a day, but really, the letters are just not going to cut it. They've got our letters....thousands of them. And still, here's the bill, back again. From what I've heard, this will be more of a forewarned strike (but I could be wrong) which will find as many providers as possible at Queen's Park for the day. I, for one, am fully on board with this. I know my clients would understand. This would make us undeniably visible and really drive the point home of how many of us there really are. In addition, we would absolutely have media coverage...the press would be all over that. Some are even suggesting having the option of families who rely on us in attendance too. Personally, I think it's brilliant and I don't see many other options. Like or not ladies, we are not considered professionals and are not taken seriously. It might be time to stand up and force them to take notice.

suzydominguez
07-11-2014, 07:26 AM
I am so confused and stressing over this whole thing. What I am really concerned about is this:
if we run an unlicenced home daycare, do we still have the option to stay unlicenced and follow the new rules ? Or will we have to join an agency ?

cfred
07-11-2014, 07:56 AM
We can still remain unlicensed and follow the new rules. My concern is that with this new bill, it kind of reinforces the image that's been painted of us by the government and media. I'm not content to continue to be considered anything but a professional. We are not even recognized as contributing members of this profession, when in actuality, we're holding the whole shebang together. I'm extremely angry about how the government and media have damaged our reputations because of a few bad seeds and a job very poorly done by the government itself! I'm also angry about the sneak attack by the Liberals on me, my colleagues and my profession, both in December and today. In case anyone didn't notice (as I certainly didn't), Bill 143 is now Bill 10 and was pushed quietly through (some might say it was sneaky) first reading this week. We are viable, valuable and it's about damned time we stood up for ourselves in a way that overrides public apathy.

Lee-Bee
07-11-2014, 09:27 AM
Damn. Why don't they just change the way they license in this province. I have NOTHING against being licensed EXCEPT that I CANNOT run my daycare on the minimal fees I would be making if licensed. If I could still charge my families the same fees I charge now then fine, I'll license.

Basically to keep my current crew I'd have to get licensed, hire a staff member, get 12 kids... AND would still be making the same amount I make now because my pay would be cut drastically and I'd have to pay another staff.

How does it help my kids here to double my numbers?

I can't even just quit home daycare and go back to teaching as my own child is 16months old and there'd be nowhere for her to go as she'd be one of the thousands of under 2 children that are suddenly without care.

All I can hope is that they push this through and CHAOS hits when half the working population doesn't go to work due to lack of childcare.

My families are smart...they know they are going to be in trouble when this goes through...I can only sound calm and cheery about it for so long...but it does seem that at some point I have to 'fire' 3 of my families and HUGELY up my daily fees. They are already asking...they have been telling me they love it here and wouldn't 'tell on me' if I illegally keep all their kids. Isn't it great when you have lawyers and highly educated professionals telling you that!

Who needs a 'day of action' there will be a much better impact when this is played out and to province shuts down due to lack of staff everywhere.

cfred
07-11-2014, 09:38 AM
LeeBee, I believe it's a huge mistake to let this go through without a day of action. We do, in fact, stand to gain from a day of action as, for one, it will get our voices heard. We've had little media coverage for our side of the issue. The media would absolutely be present at a major protest....ALL of the media. We need this. We've sent our letters and spent countless hour whining about it online. Now it's time to stand up and be heard. Personally, I'd prefer it not go through as it is at all. Wouldn't it be much better to do everything we can to get some changes BEFORE it's a law? This is not just for you, or for me, but for the entire profession. Personally, I'm not sure how this is going to affect me. My kids are grown, so I'll likely just crank my rates up by $10-$15/day and carry on. But I care about this profession....it matters and I'm sick of everyone just sloughing us off like we're a bunch of unprofessional, dime a dozen, lazy, stay at home mothers. We're all in this for different reasons and they're all important to us. It's up to us to defend what we have built and our place in the community/profession. A defeatist attitude isn't going to be productive at all...that's just conceding to their bullying tactics. I, for one, am not keen to just lay back and let it happen. I truly hope everyone in this field takes a stand to form a united groupl.

Teagansmom
07-11-2014, 09:45 AM
Agreed cfred!!!

Lee-Bee
07-11-2014, 10:26 AM
I just feel that a day of action in our line of work will not pan out as it does when larger corporations strike (even for a day). We are spread out and we cannot reach all home daycares to organize. I think that come the day of action it will just be 'some' providers that close for the day and go where ever.

Media has not been on our side as of yet and while I don't doubt they would be present I don't feel they would be there to support us and spread our word. It would be spun to show we are just taking a day off to protest.

In addition, I can't help that most families will just grumble and be annoyed and further spread the impression we are just taking a day off to protest but not really support, understand and make it clear to their employers why we did a day of action and how the bill would have a huge impact on their workplace.

I don't see a day of action having an impact on this...if our thousands upon thousands of letter have gone ignored then a portion of us protesting in public will just equally go ignored.

All the above said...I really do not have a better idea. The letters haven't worked. There really does not seem to be a way to make them pause and hear us out and to really see the impacts because they have made up their minds and in their minds this truly is the be all and end all of poor quality home daycare and they will come out heroes for saving and protecting the children.

cfred
07-11-2014, 10:40 AM
Really, you're arguing against something that has never happened within this industry, so how can you possibly say what the likely outcome is? How can we know if we don't try? It's in the process of being organized now through the Coalition of Independent Childcare Providers of Ontario. We're trying, but if we have to spend this much time convincing other providers to get on board, you're right, it's useless. There are now members in cities across the province. Frankly, I'm damned busy and don't particularly have the time or desire to add even more to my plate, but for the sake of this profession, I will and will head up my city. I will reach out to as many providers as I possibly can, as will my counterparts in other cities and we'll do the best we can to get everyone on board. I'm hopeful that some families will be involved as well. And you're right, the media has been against us. Do you think part of that reason might be lack of a voice? Who's heard our concerns? No one. I've seen a very few articles about the true quality of home daycare and the underlying issues of pitiful government support. This is our chance to be heard. And we won't be taking the day off to go 'wherever'....we'll be taking the day off to go to Queen's Park. This group and process are in their infancy. This is our chance to form something that matters and has a real impact on our profession. If you don't want to participate, then don't. No one's going to make you. But really, just sitting and worrying isn't doing a lick of good. This is a proactive movement and we stand to gain a public voice from it. Isn't even the chance of that worth a bit of effort?

bright sparks
07-11-2014, 12:02 PM
Really, you're arguing against something that has never happened within this industry, so how can you possibly say what the likely outcome is? How can we know if we don't try? It's in the process of being organized now through the Coalition of Independent Childcare Providers of Ontario. We're trying, but if we have to spend this much time convincing other providers to get on board, you're right, it's useless. There are now members in cities across the province. Frankly, I'm damned busy and don't particularly have the time or desire to add even more to my plate, but for the sake of this profession, I will and will head up my city. I will reach out to as many providers as I possibly can, as will my counterparts in other cities and we'll do the best we can to get everyone on board. I'm hopeful that some families will be involved as well. And you're right, the media has been against us. Do you think part of that reason might be lack of a voice? Who's heard our concerns? No one. I've seen a very few articles about the true quality of home daycare and the underlying issues of pitiful government support. This is our chance to be heard. And we won't be taking the day off to go 'wherever'....we'll be taking the day off to go to Queen's Park. This group and process are in their infancy. This is our chance to form something that matters and has a real impact on our profession. If you don't want to participate, then don't. No one's going to make you. But really, just sitting and worrying isn't doing a lick of good. This is a proactive movement and we stand to gain a public voice from it. Isn't even the chance of that worth a bit of effort?

I'm right there with you and I'll spread the word in my region too. Who's up for car pooling to Queen's Park?!?

cfred
07-11-2014, 12:08 PM
For the record, the FB page 'The Coalition of Independent Childcare Providers of Ontario' has been up less than 24 hours and already had 124 members as of a couple hours ago. Not too shabby! Let's everyone get on board with this, become a member and really get the ball rolling! It's been made very clear that this will not just be a site for back and forth discussion. Heidi as well as a few others who have spearheaded this project are currently disseminating all the information and will focus on providing facts and a platform to discuss course of action. This is a GOOD THING! We're breaking it up by city with individual groups of the same cause in each area. Anyone in the Newmarket/Aurora area, feel free to contact me as I'm taking on this area and trying to get people involved and organized (god help you all, lol!)...although I'll probably try to contact you first ;)

cfred
07-11-2014, 12:16 PM
I'm right there with you and I'll spread the word in my region too. Who's up for car pooling to Queen's Park?!?

THIS is exactly what we want to see!!! If everyone joins in, we might actually have a shot....and how nice to stand together :)

jodaycare
07-11-2014, 12:19 PM
I just joined the group, there are now 130 members. I think that if a day of protest is going to happen it needs to be soon. The government seems hellbent on passing this bill quickly!

cfred
07-11-2014, 12:24 PM
Yes, I absolutely agree! I'll be spending my planned 'Weekend of no Commitments' with my boyfriend online, contacting providers. Oh well...we can laze about another time.

godsgirl
07-11-2014, 12:26 PM
Soooo essentially if the Bill is passed then private day homes would be required to become licensed?
Are they looking to change the child:age ratios are anything like that?
Is there any other way that we would be affect? (Sorry, I have looked and I can't find any definitive answer on this).

I 100% agree with not wanting to pay the agency a cut of your pay. That was one of the big reasons why I decided to leave other than the the fact that I would have to terminate one of my families due to my children counting in the ratios once #2 was born. Other than that though, I loved my agency. They were always super helpful and provided me with whatever I needed.

Teagansmom
07-11-2014, 12:27 PM
I live in pickering the durham region. All non essential staff including daycare worker were on strike for about two weeks. They got media attention and the dispute was ratified. I believe a day of action will show the government how "essential" our services are for the ontario economy.

Teagansmom
07-11-2014, 12:29 PM
No, you will not have to become licensed. They are just trying to make it more appealing to becoming licensed by allowing you to have 6 kids instead of the five.

Artsand crafts
07-11-2014, 12:37 PM
This is the proposal for Bill 10. I've been reading it.

http://www.ontla.on.ca/web/bills/bills_detail.do?loca le=en&Intranet&BillID=3002

The summary:

5 dck including provider's own children for unlicensed daycare
6 dck including provider's own children for hdc working for an agency
12 dck including provider's own children for hdc working for an agency, when there are 2 adults

dc provider's own children will not count in numbers if they are 6 yo or older

We also will have to disclose that we don't have a license to all families we offer care and we have to keep the record of disclosure for the time the child is in care or at least 2 years.

Teagansmom
07-11-2014, 12:42 PM
This is the proposal for Bill 10. I've been reading it.

http://www.ontla.on.ca/web/bills/bills_detail.do?loca le=en&Intranet&BillID=3002

The summary:

5 dck including provider's own children for unlicensed daycare
6 dck including provider's own children for hdc working for an agency
12 dck including provider's own children for hdc working for an agency, when there are 2 adults

dc provider's own children will not count in numbers if they are 6 yo or older

We also will have to disclose that we don't have a license to all families we offer care and we have to keep the record of disclosure for the time the child is in care or at least 2 years.

Also no one is allowed to smoke on your property at any time. No smoking signs must be displayed on all entrances and in all bathrooms.

torontokids
07-11-2014, 12:45 PM
My husband is a smoker. He isn't home during daycare hours and only smokes outside in the backyard when he is. Does that mean he has to move out? heh heh

Teagansmom
07-11-2014, 12:48 PM
Lol nope just has to smoke on the sidewalk. It's absolutely ridiculous. Next we will not be able to have an alcoholic beverage anytime on our property. I mean I agree with not smoking in homes and on the property during daycare hours but after hours and weekends it's our homes.

playfelt
07-11-2014, 12:52 PM
My concern with a day of action is that I don't think parents, media or the general public are going to get it. Why is it not good for parents to go to an agency and have supervised care, etc. Too much of our concern is about the loss of our income and the general public is just going to see that as whining and not have any sympathy for us.

cfred
07-11-2014, 12:58 PM
One big thing that should burn all your asses is the flat out extortion is the less than equal billing here between the sectors. Two providers going through an agency, whether ECE or not, will be able to team up in one residence and have up to 12 children in care, but we cannot. Are they frickin' serious??? I'm an ECE and I have a friend who is an ECE and was assistant director in a daycare for goodness sakes, but we can't be afforded the same opportunity as someone without the background only because of agency status??? That is downright wrong, no matter how you look at it. That one, as much if not more than anything else, sets my anger off. It's indicative of their bullying tactics, lack of integrity and sleazy manipulations and above all, their utter lack of respect for ANY providers in ANY forum! It's disgusting!

cfred
07-11-2014, 01:01 PM
Playfelt, this is our opportunity to make our concerns heard. We're already whining and that's all anyone has seen. They think we just want to fly under the radar because we've not had any opportunity to stand as a group with one cohesive message. I don't think our message is that it's not good for parents to go to agency care and it's not that we don't want to be licensed. It's that they're being mislead into thinking that's our view. We want to be licensed, or at the very least, have government oversight that won't cost us so dearly. We want them to understand the ramifications of passing this bill without amendments. No one is going to get it if we don't speak out. We don't get to speak out unless we stand together and make a really visible statement.

Momof4
07-11-2014, 04:30 PM
Cfred, I just have to thank you for all your good work on this thread!!!! Like you, I'm ready to do the work in my city to get caregivers motivated and to reach as many parents as possible. After all, the parents are the ones who will be suffering when the bill passes and they can't find any spaces for their 1 year olds or we all have to raise our prices for the under 2's to be able to survive. I'm very impressed with Heidi and Kim and all the efforts they are putting into the cause.

cfred
07-11-2014, 07:07 PM
Thanks, but I haven't done much as yet. I've sent emails out to all the providers in my area and I'm hopeful to get some positive responses. I do get frustrated with the negativity as I feel this is the most proactive action I've seen to date. I hope we get most providers on board with this and that we take advantage of this very rare opportunity to carve a better path for Independent Childcare Providers across this province. It's such a great endeavor and is certainly worth a day of everyone's time. Good luck to everyone and let's get this rolling! Heidi is the only one I've been speaking with, but I can say that she's busting her ass on our behalf...it's time to help out.

madmom
07-12-2014, 08:21 AM
I have some reservations if we were to protest at Queens park, First and foremost I am in Ottawa, no easy feat to arrange a trip to Toronto (the wonderful money issue) and I highly doubt my families would make the trip either. Second, people are getting nervous about the bill and many families are moving their children into centers so as not to lose their spots. This has happened to many of my contemporaries here in Ottawa, we get the child and as soon as they are old enough to go to the "preschool" program the parents give notice. My fear is if we all close for the day in protest some families will then reconsider home based dc. In a center you never have to take a sick day because of your provider, or holidays for that matter. This bill is ruining my life, at the risk of sounding dramatic.
I also want to pose what will probably be a very unpopular question but, where were all the dc providers during the election. The province of Ontario voted the Liberals back in so was it a lack of information or are we not as strong in numbers as I was led to believe. I find this whole situation so depressing. My family depends on me making a decent wage which I don't think will be possible if this bill passes. Thanks for letting me rant

Lee-Bee
07-12-2014, 10:52 AM
I have some reservations if we were to protest at Queens park, First and foremost I am in Ottawa, no easy feat to arrange a trip to Toronto (the wonderful money issue) and I highly doubt my families would make the trip either. Second, people are getting nervous about the bill and many families are moving their children into centers so as not to lose their spots. This has happened to many of my contemporaries here in Ottawa, we get the child and as soon as they are old enough to go to the "preschool" program the parents give notice. My fear is if we all close for the day in protest some families will then reconsider home based dc. In a center you never have to take a sick day because of your provider, or holidays for that matter. This bill is ruining my life, at the risk of sounding dramatic.
I also want to pose what will probably be a very unpopular question but, where were all the dc providers during the election. The province of Ontario voted the Liberals back in so was it a lack of information or are we not as strong in numbers as I was led to believe. I find this whole situation so depressing. My family depends on me making a decent wage which I don't think will be possible if this bill passes. Thanks for letting me rant


I am quite curious where all the dc providers were for the election as well. The election results baffled me. For the first time in my life I did NOT vote liberals, solely for this cause. Where were all the other home daycare providers? Why were they not standing up for themselves and their profession? If our numbers are so strong and we are so united to prevent this bill from passing then we seriously missed the mark because the election results clearly show that many, many home daycare providers did not take the time to vote or voted against their business. The election was our strongest battle against this bill...and we clearly failed there.

jodaycare
07-12-2014, 11:17 AM
I completely agree, i still cant figure out how the Liberals managed to get a majority government. After everything they have done to screw the people of this province, the majority still voted for them. The sad thing is that no matter how much we try to stop them, the opposition parties have absolutely no power anymore to stop the liberals. This bill can pass very quickly because of the majority, they can do what they want!

cfred
07-12-2014, 06:05 PM
I was surprised as anyone about the Liberals getting back in. To insinuate that other providers didn't vote appropriately isn't really fair. We really didn't have a chance against the public sector. There are lots of us, but not enough to throw the balance off by that much. Unless every single provider went out and voted PC, I'm not sure we had a chance at all. It's a moot point anyway. What's done is done. All we can do is carry on and see what action we can take now.

Madmom, I understand your concerns. We're all in the same boat. My family wholly depends on my income from the daycare. I am a single parent to 3 and this is our only source of income. We all have a lot at stake here. The Liberals have won, so our best avenue to block the bill is lost. I cried about it...in front of a client I might add! But, being strong people, we must carry on and see what we can do next. It seems to me, that if you're that worried about the stability of your profession/business, this is the next best option. Surely it's more productive than worrying but doing nothing. Sitting and complaining will gain us nothing. Action might. We are not talking about going on strike and leaving everyone high and dry. This is not a hostile protest. It is simply all providers meeting at Queen's Park and making ourselves visible to the public in a positive, proactive way with a unified, cohesive message. What is the absolute worst that can happen? If your clients are already bailing for daycare centres, what difference is this going to make?

So far as other concerns about annoying the parents and encouraging them to leave to larger facilities...really? I've spoken to my clients and they're all on board. They may not go to Queen's Park (though some will), but they value what we do and are willing to support me. Give your clients a chance to understand the concerns for the industry and let them see your passion for it and they might just surprise you! All the public has seen of our cause so far is the fractured messages and whining that we've all been seeing on various websites, including this one. The Coalition is working towards putting together a list of points based on the CCPRN recommendations as our core message...1 message that we can deliver as a group. In a public gathering on Queen's Park, we will have media present so we can relay that singular message to the public in a cohesive, articulate manner as a united front. We have NEVER even had a shot at this before...ever!

I've just spoken to Heidi now and it is every provider meeting on the same day, at the same time, with the same message in a designated spot in each city. This is great! Not a daunting trip now! Please, please consider coming on board with this project. We actually might be heard this time. OH...she also told me that, unbeknownst to any of us, politicians are not obligated to read email letters from the public, but they are for mailed letters. At least that's what I understood. Soooo, my clients will all be met with a pre stamped envelope for each MPP :) Next week, I'll be emailing CP24 by the request of another provider and will set up an appointment to meet with the PC MPP of our region. This project requires the participation of all of us to work!

playfelt
07-12-2014, 06:48 PM
Parents were worried about the education cuts and there are five families for every provider.

CrazyEight
07-14-2014, 09:59 AM
Ugh, can anyone help me out? I posted info about the Bill in a few facebook groups for moms, and have now been attacked by a provider who is insisting that the age restrictions have always been there for independent providers. Obviously this is not true, but I don't want to get into a petty spat over facebook. I have sent her links to the day nurseries act online, and whatisbill143.weebly .com, which I think lays it out very clearly. Any other "official" source I can use? I feel like this is the exact reason the government is able to push this as far and as easily as they are - SO many people just don't know the current laws and think we are running illegal daycares already.

bright sparks
07-14-2014, 10:22 AM
Ugh, can anyone help me out? I posted info about the Bill in a few facebook groups for moms, and have now been attacked by a provider who is insisting that the age restrictions have always been there for independent providers. Obviously this is not true, but I don't want to get into a petty spat over facebook. I have sent her links to the day nurseries act online, and whatisbill143.weebly .com, which I think lays it out very clearly. Any other "official" source I can use? I feel like this is the exact reason the government is able to push this as far and as easily as they are - SO many people just don't know the current laws and think we are running illegal daycares already.

That should be quite sufficient and you likely aren't going to be able to produce enough evidence to convince this person otherwise. Why not try the opposite approach and ask them to back up their claims and that way you will be able to clearly identify where they have got their facts wrong and hopefully they will back off. Sorry you have crossed paths with this person.

cfred
07-14-2014, 10:24 AM
The DNA is about as credible as it gets, so beyond that, I'm not sure I'd bother with her any more. Just assure her that she's absolutely incorrect and let it rest. There's no point getting into it with someone like that. Is she from Ontario? I've gotten into a couple times with people from other provinces who didn't have the foggiest how things run in Ontario. Really, I wouldn't sweat it at all. I looked for the thread on FB, but couldn't find it. Is it on the Coalition page or Providers against 143?

CrazyEight
07-14-2014, 10:39 AM
Neither. I am on both of those, but for some reason my city seems very uneducated about the Bill. There are a ton of "providers" not even following current laws, and many parents just go for the cheapest option they can find. It's incredibly frustrating. Anyways, it's on a children's used clothing site. I simply posted up the info and said anyone who is interested in learning more is free to contact me and I will pass it on. She took it upon herself to tell me that the ratios and restrictions proposed in the new bill are already in effect, and that apparently CAS will back her up.
I worry that the efforts of a few of us here are going to be undermined completely by people such as this, who are simply unaware of the current laws. I'm not planning on getting into it anymore with her, although I would like to ask where she got her current info from. All she has posted in confirmation of her claims is the portion of the DNA that pertains to Day Nurseries...which still doesn't support what she's saying, so I'm pretty confused!
Thanks for the support guys.

CrazyEight
07-14-2014, 11:06 AM
Can I clarify with you guys: this person is claiming that CAS gave her the information. Well, I have just searched the CAS website and there is nothing on it about childcare at all. As far as I am aware, CAS is in independent organization and does not set the rules or laws that we as providers must follow. Those are laid out by the ministry of children and families, via the DNA. Am I missing something? Why in the world would CAS be giving out false info about daycare laws?

cfred
07-14-2014, 11:14 AM
I know that back in Jan or Feb, some places were citing the new legislation as if it had already passed. I seem to recall this coming up a number of times. Apparently, some of the higher ups were saying that they were to just run things starting at that point under the new legislation, which was, of course, completely false. I believe another person posted that ECE courses were also reflective of the new legislation. I don't know if that was across the board, but I don't doubt it was happening.

I think we have a tough row to hoe here. No doubt about it! However, I do think we at least have a shot at having our issues heard if we all work together at it. I'm finding that many providers just don't want to deal with it. Either they feel it's not going to help anyway or that it might rub a few people the wrong way. They could be right, but really, what have we got to lose at this point? I think the coalition is the best thing to come along in some time as a means of being given a chance to get the appropriate message out there...the one being completely overlooked by the government.

torontokids
07-14-2014, 12:03 PM
CAS has nothing to do with childcare. She may be saying this because she is a) a provider that became involved with CAS and this is info the worker gave her (who is then also misinformed) or b) she herself is involved with CAS with her own kids and was misinformed by her worker.

I wouldn't worry about it

Artsand crafts
07-14-2014, 12:33 PM
Ugh, can anyone help me out? I posted info about the Bill in a few facebook groups for moms, and have now been attacked by a provider who is insisting that the age restrictions have always been there for independent providers. Obviously this is not true, but I don't want to get into a petty spat over facebook. I have sent her links to the day nurseries act online, and whatisbill143.weebly .com, which I think lays it out very clearly. Any other "official" source I can use? I feel like this is the exact reason the government is able to push this as far and as easily as they are - SO many people just don't know the current laws and think we are running illegal daycares already.

This is from the Ministry of Education web page. Read at the paragragh below the pictures. It shows the only restrictions for informal (independent) daycare:

http://www.edu.gov.on.ca/childcare/choices.html

CrazyEight
07-14-2014, 12:57 PM
I shared this exact link with her, Artsand Crafts, thanks! Looks like I've finally gotten through to her. I just want parents and providers to actually have the correct facts before they start forming their opinion. Thanks for the clarification, torontokids! Always good to make sure MY facts are correct, too!

kimg
07-14-2014, 01:19 PM
Ugh, can anyone help me out? I posted info about the Bill in a few facebook groups for moms, and have now been attacked by a provider who is insisting that the age restrictions have always been there for independent providers. Obviously this is not true, but I don't want to get into a petty spat over facebook. I have sent her links to the day nurseries act online, and whatisbill143.weebly .com, which I think lays it out very clearly. Any other "official" source I can use? I feel like this is the exact reason the government is able to push this as far and as easily as they are - SO many people just don't know the current laws and think we are running illegal daycares already.

I've run into the same issue on FB with an otherwise intelligent well informed friend. He suggested that I consult my lawyer when I told him I wasn't licensed. Not licensed =/= illegal.

giraffe
07-16-2014, 12:32 PM
I've run into the same issue on FB with an otherwise intelligent well informed friend. He suggested that I consult my lawyer when I told him I wasn't licensed. Not licensed =/= illegal.

That is ridiculous! !!

Lou
07-16-2014, 12:37 PM
What KILLS me is not knowing when this bill will come into effect. Not knowing how to plan out my life, my LIFE, freaks me right out.

cfred
07-16-2014, 02:38 PM
As I said before, it's better to be proactive than just sit, and wait for the ax to fall. Contact your local chapter of CICPO and join in! Everyone in the coalition, myself included, are working our buns off to have a say in this issue that affects all of us. We need more people! Join the group, talk to friends, family, clients and get them to join the group. The information package put out is fantastic and very easy to understand. There's also a form letter for parents to sign and mail to MPPs. Send via traditional mail though as I heard that politicians aren't obligated to read email, but are for traditional mail.

If this bill is going to affect your life in a negative, substantial way, then get involved. It feels much better to be working with a large group of people all in the same boat toward the same goal that it be scared about your future all on your own. I'm terrified of this bill too! My family depends on this. It's my only source of income and the ONLY thing I'm trained to do as an ECE. If this falls through, we're in big trouble. This is why I refuse to just sit on this.....I want action but it's not going to happen without effort from lots and lots of people. I think this is worth fighting for, don't all of you?

dodge__driver11
07-16-2014, 05:24 PM
Cfred I am not in Ontario but would happy to sign a letter or something if that helps?

But I have to be honest I have always had restrictions on age ratios so for me, if I came to ontario it would be the same as before..:s

CrazyEight
07-16-2014, 06:50 PM
Anyone in Belleville or the surrounding areas, feel free to join the Belleville Chapter of the Coalition: https://www.facebook.com/groups/699285320119693/

Lou
07-16-2014, 07:58 PM
I'm not doing nothing, fyi, I am a part of my chapter.

cfred
07-16-2014, 09:18 PM
That wasn't specifically directed at you or anyone else Lou. Perhaps the intended tone was lost in the text.

cfred
07-16-2014, 09:20 PM
Thanks Dodge! The 2 under 2 is just part of it. My big issue is that I'd like for providers to be treated as professionals, not lazy, bored housewives. There are different issues at hand. If you want to join the group, the more the merrier :)

Lou
07-18-2014, 09:59 AM
That wasn't specifically directed at you or anyone else Lou. Perhaps the intended tone was lost in the text.

No offense was taken! No worries at all :)