She wants to put off my full payment -- should I say yes just this one time?

[SevenwatersDaughter]

Greetings, daycare mamas! I hope everyone is having a lovely autumn day.

I got a call just now from the mother of an almost-two-year-old boy that I look after. I've been looking after him for about four weeks now, so he is still on his trial period for the rest of the week.

I get paid two weeks in advance, every second Monday. So this coming Monday is when parents would pay me for the next two weeks. I have a $20/day late fee policy which is very clearly laid out in my Parent's Handbook.

Well, the boy's mom called me this morning (I don't know why she didn't just ask when she dropped him off an hour ago) from her work, asking me if she can wait until next Friday to pay me (instead of Monday). She said that it's because her power got shut off because she couldn't afford to pay it, and because her son's birthday is tomorrow and she needs to use the money for that.

A friend of mine who knows her told me she is going through a pretty brutal divorce right now, so I feel for her. It can't be easy, and she's got two other boys in school already. I want to help her out, but at the same time, I have bills to pay too, and I count on getting all my payments on the same day so that I can budget things properly and stay organized, plus pay my own bills.

Should I a.) allow her to pay me the full payment on Friday and tell her not to worry about the late fees this time, or b.) don't allow it, and if she doesn't pay me on time, charge her the $20/day late fee or c.) insist that she pay at least half on Monday and the other half on Friday -- and if she doesn't pay by Friday, tell her I won't take her son until she pays the rest?

I'm a Christian woman, and charity is important to me. So is being loving to others. But at the same time, I'm running a business - I'm a licensed home day care and this is my sole means of income (yes I have a husband who makes good money but he doesn't pay my phone bill, and I like to contribute with groceries, my daughter's RESP, my own savings account, and I have car insurance and payments, etc.).

Thoughts? Thanks in advance, everyone!

[mickyc]

First of all take your heart out of it!! Business is business. Do your charity work outside of your business. I realize that things are tough but her problems are not YOUR problems. My pay is my pay and I don't care what is happening at your home. If you do it for her you will forever be chasing your money. Don't do it!!

[5 Little Monkeys]

I agree with the others. I can be flexible with other things but payment is not one of them. Just as she needs to pay her hydro bill you have bills of your own. If she doesn't understand that she is not a parent I would want in my daycare. Maybe she should tell her story to the power company and see what they say? A daycare bill is no less important than any other one and it's on her (not you!) to budget for it.

Also, I know parties can be expensive but it sounds like she has her priorities in the wrong order. A 2 year old would be perfectly fine with a party that has nothing more than a homemade baked cake, a dollar store book and lots of hugs and kisses from family. Unless you only charge $5, that excuse wouldn't sit well with me. If you have the finances by all means throw an elaborate party but don't tell me you can't pay your dc bill because your having a party.

[Rachael]

I get paid two weeks in advance, every second Monday. So this coming Monday is when parents would pay me for the next two weeks. I have a $20/day late fee policy which is very clearly laid out in my Parent's Handbook.Awesome - This late penalty is just for instances like this - something she agreed to. But a contact is only effective if you enforce it. Absolutely, for this one off time, she can pay you late and as she knows, the penalty for doing so, is $20/day. If she doesn't want to pay the penalty, then she needs to pay on time. Simple.


Well, the boy's mom called me this morning (I don't know why she didn't just ask when she dropped him off an hour ago) from her work, asking me if she can wait until next Friday to pay me (instead of Monday). She said that it's because her power got shut off because she couldn't afford to pay it, and because her son's birthday is tomorrow and she needs to use the money for that. This is a sob story. She's playing on your heart strings. She hasn't considered that you not being paid might mean your power gets shut off or your child missing out on a birthday gift. It is not your job to financially support your clients. Make that message clear for the beginning or this will be an on-going issues.

"Although I fully empathise with your situation, I too have bills that are due plus I need to buy groceries/supplies for your child as well as my own."

How would she feel if her employer told her that her salary wasn't being paid because the company had an unexpected expense but not to worry, she'll get it later in the week?


A friend of mine who knows her told me she is going through a pretty brutal divorce right now, so I feel for her. It can't be easy, and she's got two other boys in school already. I want to help her out..... Don't! You have known this woman for 4 weeks. If you had a new neighbour would you work 50+ hours a week for them and also help them out with their bills? No, of course you wouldn't. This isn't your best friend for over 20 years going through a hard time - it's a client trying to pass her financial woes onto you. She is trying to make her lack of funds, your issue. Don't allow that.


Should I a.) allow her to pay me the full payment on Friday and tell her not to worry about the late fees this time, No, no, no, no, no. If you aren't prepared to respect and enforce your own contract, why would this client respect it. Will she bring a sick child next week because she can't afford a day off? Will payment be late at Christmas because she has that to plan for? If you are crazy enough to permit the late payment - you must apply the late fee as per your contract. But this is not the way I'd go. No fees = no care.


or b.) don't allow it, and if she doesn't pay me on time, charge her the $20/day late fee

Ding, ding, ding - winner, winner. Do not ever allow a client to think that payment on time is optional. Don't allow them to think that a sob story is all it takes to delay your payment. Be clear - fees are always due on due date. And you will charge her the late fee if not paid on time. But don't allow this to go on and on or be a regular occurrence.


or c.) insist that she pay at least half on Monday and the other half on Friday -- and if she doesn't pay by Friday, tell her I won't take her son until she pays the rest?Don't negotiate for your own fees! Don't offer payment plans! Don't make it easier for someone not to pay you when your fees are due. Every single time she hits a financial issue, you will be the default for non-payment.

I sympathise, I really do. It's clear this client is struggling financially and I know what that's like with a young family. However, there a some bills she won't consider putting off such as mortgage or rent - and you need to ensure you are seen as one of those non-negotiable bills. If she thinks you are willing to wait for fees this time, next time she's struggling, she will expect you to wait again. You can't plan for your own expenses this way so make it clear from the beginning that you will never be one of the bills which are delayed.

[Wonderwiper]

While I agree with others that it's not your problem she can't pay her bills, I personally would have no problem trying to work with the parent to come up with a solution. Maybe she could switch to paying weekly if 2 weeks at a time is hard for her to budget? As long as it's always in advance you would still be receiving the same amounts. Never provide care without pre payment!!

I understand your feelings of wanting to be charitable can make dealing with these situations difficult for you. You have to come up with a plan that you feel comfortable with. As she is a fairly new client you are right to be wary of this becoming an ongoing problem. If you do decide to allow her to pay late, make sure to stand firm and never let it happen again.

[superfun]

If I remember correctly, aren't you licensed in MB? So if it's actually a case of not having enough money, she should be eligible for subsidy. If she has the money but has poor planning and bad priorities, then it's not your problem it's hers.

[Busy ECE mommy]

Never negotiate payment. No pay=no care. Guess she'll have to take all week off work to care for him until Friday....

[Gloucestermom]

Don't allow it! If you allow it once, then she will expect it every time! 2 weeks ago, I terminated a family for this same reason. She needs to pay the daycare bill just like every other bill that needs to be paid.

[bright sparks]

I think everyone deserves the benefit of the doubt and a free pass. Mortgage companies, utilities and service providers will in fact generally work with a customer if there is financial hardship so I don't see why it can't at least be considered in situations like this. Going through a messy divorce seems like a genuine reason for losing a handle on life in general and I think I would probably also work with this parent. Do I have to? Absolutely not, my number one priority is my family and my business but the beauty of running my own business is that I get to make those calls and assess the individual and whether I think it is a good idea in each circumstance. I am not about to sit and judge her actions when I do not know fully what is going on only having a portion of the information. Yes she could be taking you for a ride, but that is an assumption only you can make...sob story is anyone's guess but I'm not about to be insensitive to her circumstances having made a succession of screw ups in my life and being eternally grateful to those who have taken a chance with me as those people have helped me when times were rough. I have been faced with a dilemma that was of my own doing and nobody needed to care but they did and it was what enabled me to count my blessings and get my act together. A parent going through a divorce is trying very hard to be a better parent and I can totally understand why her sons birthday party is a priority whether she can afford it or not. The added guilt it would cause her in addition to things would be simply awful. We are not in her shoes so we see things more factually, not emotionally but it doesn't make her circumstances any less real. I couldn't sleep at night knowing that someone in need was flat out turned away. I am notoriously empathetic but I think a lot of that comes from the fact that I have been through a lot so my heart is open to others...it back fires a lot lol I think boundaries are important and that you should put it in writing that she pays weekly, you will waiver the late fee on this occasion but it is a one time situation and she should never even ask again in the future. Having compassion is fine but you definitely need to set boundaries and stick to them to prevent being taken advantage of in the future. If she can't pay her daycare bill now, how is she going to pay the late fee on top of it?? It then becomes your problem when standing to firm results in her leaving all together and you being out of pocket. Just because she is in a personal pickle asking for help does not mean that she will be a serial problem parent. Maybe a break is just what she needs, and maybe it isn't but I'd for sure give her a chance before I painted her all sorts of trouble. I've been doing this for 9 years and given people the benefit of the doubt on occasion and its never come back to bite me in the ass, but that is because I haven't let it.

[Secondtimearound]

My opinion is this , charity is something totally different than changing the rules/contract . To me you have a couple of choices
A) practise charity - give up the wages as a loss and let her start again next pay period as negotiated
B) charge the late fee and let her pay when she asked
C) stick to your contract
This is your business and you get to make the choices you can live with . I have given leeway when I have chosen to and have had good results and bad . As the other ladies have mentioned , with their experiences, this is not a new story and usually if there is a problem after 4 weeks .... There will prob be problems as Christmas ect comes up . I personally have had the same experience and wished I would of termed a lot sooner . That being said if you are practising charity , in my opinion , that's a different story and only you can decide how to go about it . It will not make sense to everyone . If I was choosing charity I would inform her of the break I was giving her and move on . Whether she keeps up with not paying you or expecting you to help her out may be the result , the break may allow her to get her feet under her . It's always interesting to see how it goes !!!

[Lou]

As much as I feel for this woman, this will continue and continue if you allow it to happen. She needs to see paying you as part of her important bills, and not "oh she won't mind, she's just doing it for extra money anyways". She can not be late unless she intends on paying the late fee. If you do decide to let this one slide, make it extremely clear that this is a one time only option, and will not be allowed to happen again.

How did you respond to her when she called you?

[5 Little Monkeys]

The difference between me and the power company is that I only have 4-5 families who make up my paycheque whereas they have thousands. If one of my daycare families doesn't pay, than it's MY bills that don't get paid. I can't run a business if my own power gets shut off.

If a parent needs to only pay half of a bill (and I've been there!!) than they need to phone and make arrangements with the cable, hydro, phone companies because they can afford to have her pay in increments. Her daycare can not and without daycare she won't be going to work to make money to pay the other bills. Just my opinion...

[SevenwatersDaughter]

Thank you everyone for your advice. Grr I feel so torn! On the one hand, I want to do her a good turn. On the other, I called up my friend to ask her opinion (I know she will keep mum about it) and she said this lady has been through a couple day cares already.

Plus, two of my full-time girls moved away this summer, so I only have this one boy and another full-time girl (and her bill is already lower than its supposed to be because she was sick and I have a policy where parents have ten days to use throughout the year where they only have to pay half price, be it a day when their child is sick or they are out of town, etc.). I am interviewing and advertising to fill more space but it's just those two right now, but I still have my payments to make.

I told her on the phone that I'd think about it and that I had to look at my finances. I guess I could in all honesty wait until Friday for HALF the payment, but I absolutely will not provide childcare when I haven't been paid at least a week in advance.

What really grinds my gears is that she told me "I did set aside the money, but it's my hydro got cut off and it's baby's birthday tomorrow"

:no:

[bright sparks]

The difference between me and the power company is that I only have 4-5 families who make up my paycheque whereas they have thousands. If one of my daycare families doesn't pay, than it's MY bills that don't get paid. I can't run a business if my own power gets shut off.

If a parent needs to only pay half of a bill (and I've been there!!) than they need to phone and make arrangements with the cable, hydro, phone companies because they can afford to have her pay in increments. Her daycare can not and without daycare she won't be going to work to make money to pay the other bills. Just my opinion...

I totally hear what you are saying 5LM and that's why I said there is the advantage of us being business owners and having the ability to assess each circumstance as it comes up. Maybe in a particular instance as a one off, the result of a payment being late won't actually result in the dcprovider not being able to pay her bills. I simply said that I think for me it is worth some consideration. One of those considerations is whether or not it will have a negative impact on me. If this is a first time request and something being offered due to extenuating circumstances and it doesn't cause me a financial problem to offer a break, then there wouldn't be an issue. Regardless of whether or not I felt bad for someone or not, if my bills wouldn't be paid as a result, then there wouldn't be a question of should I shouldn't I.

[5 Little Monkeys]

Again, just my opinion, but if you are going to stew over this and resent her for it than don't do her the favour. If she's gone through a couple other dc's already there must be a reason why. If you happen to know who they are maybe you could contact them and ask?

I understand we all have different priorities but IMO bills come before birthdays, especially at such a young age where they will not even remember it. It also wouldn't be the end of the world if she paid you on time and celebrated the birthday a different day.

[bright sparks]

I understand we all have different priorities but IMO bills come before birthdays, especially at such a young age where they will not even remember it. It also wouldn't be the end of the world if she paid you on time and celebrated the birthday a different day.

I agree, birthday parties are generally not on the day anyway so to do after next payday wouldn't actually be out of the ordinary. I think it's more likely that she is feeling the guilt of an inadequate parent going through a divorce and she wants to make her child happy. It's not rational thinking but I can totally accept that regardless this is how a lot of parents act when they are feeling emotionally unstable and flustered during a difficult period. Not thinking straight is to be expected and I would imagine throwing a birthday bash and seeing the child happy will make her temporarily feel better. It may seem ridiculous to those not going through it but in that moment what may be best, may not be clear in ones mind. Do whatever is going to fit in with your business best. If as a result of a good will gesture it leaves you in hardship then it's a no brainer choice. Regardless of this person circumstances and their reasons for doing x, y and z and our opinions on her choices, good or bad, it's just something you need to be careful about moving forward to prevent being taken further advantage of, or leaving you in a tight spot. It's always easy to sit on the other side of the fence assuming, but in reality we tend not to have a full picture of things. I'm Sure you will do what works best for you SWD.

[5 Little Monkeys]

I totally hear what you are saying 5LM and that's why I said there is the advantage of us being business owners and having the ability to assess each circumstance as it comes up. Maybe in a particular instance as a one off, the result of a payment being late won't actually result in the dcprovider not being able to pay her bills. I simply said that I think for me it is worth some consideration. One of those considerations is whether or not it will have a negative impact on me. If this is a first time request and something being offered due to extenuating circumstances and it doesn't cause me a financial problem to offer a break, then there wouldn't be an issue. Regardless of whether or not I felt bad for someone or not, if my bills wouldn't be paid as a result, then there wouldn't be a question of should I shouldn't I.

I know what you mean, having a parent pay late wouldn't result in me not making my own payments but they don't need to know that. Ask once and be told yes would open it up to being asked more times IMO and I'm not a fan of that. If I was doing this for extra money than ya sure pay me whenever but this is my income. Like I said, I think I am pretty flexible on most things but this is one area that I am not. I actually find it very disrespectful that parents even think it's okay to ask as it puts their dcprovider in a very uncomfortable spot and makes them feel like the bad guy if they say no. I know what it's like to not be able to afford to pay all my monthly bills so I know that most larger companies have payment options. Small businesses don't normally and that is why so many small businesses go under. I don't want to be in that statistic. I think this parent needs to pay her dcprovider so that she has a place to send her child so she can continue to work. IMO, if finances are tough and you are placing a party ahead of a bill, you have budgeting issues and need to fix that.

Hearing sob stories (with the intent to get out of something) is a bit of a pet peeve of mine though because we all have them....we just don't all use it as a crutch. I hate to see dcproviders get taken advantage of! Sorry for my rant :)

[Secondtimearound]

That would be the mature thing to do ! What one of us hasn't "kept" a birthday until payday ! It seems she has to deal with her circumstances . Personally I try very hard not to let my life effect someone else's negatively . If I had to choose between a birthday or dayhome fees I know what I would choose !!!

[SevenwatersDaughter]

So she shows up today and he's in brand new sneakers. My daughter's eye swelled up shut through the night so I told her that I can take him today but he'll be coming with us to the walk-in or emerg, she said fine. Then she said, "Oh, I'll probably be five or later today." When my day care contract clearly states I'm only open until 4:30. UGH charging late fees then.

[5 Little Monkeys]

What did she say when you told her you close at 430 and would have to charge the late fee?

Parents being late happens but if she knows ahead of time she'll be late why didn't she make plans for someone else to pick up?

It doesn't sound like she respects you. That wouldn't sit well with me.

[Wonderwiper]

These new observations that you've shared with us show this lady in a bit of a different light. They are your red flags and I suspect any kindness you offer may come back to bite you in the arse. NEXT!!!!!!

[Fun&care]

First of all, we don't know for sure if she is the one who bought the sneakers, correct? Even so, all too often I have found from personal experience that just because someone complains that they don't have money, I've often found this is not the case at all. I have a sister like that. I listened to her complain for months about how her and her fiancé so badly wanted to get a house but didn't have the down payment etc. I felt had for her and ALMOST offered to help out until....I FOUND OUT THEY MAKE MORE MONEY THAN WE DO?!?! Heck my mother is like that too. By many standards my parents are considered to be pretty well off yet my mother has the gull to complain that they have no money. I have so many more examples but I think you get my drift. It's often not that they don't have money...it's how they prioritize their finances.

Second, why are you even letting her pick up late? If you have set hours, then you have set hours. Call her back and tell her you actually made plans tonight you forgot about and she needs to be there before 4:30. With a pay cheque.

I'm not feeling like this woman is very respectful, she has a lot of guts picking up late after asking to pay late. Just no.

[mickyc]

I agree! My answer to her this morning when she said she would be picking up late would be NO I am sorry but I close at 4:30 and you need to be here by then. I do not take being told lightly especially by my clients. This is my house and my rules and my hours are my hours. Have a late pickup fee (and late payment fee) do not mean that just because you pay it you can use it. I also have in my contract that consistent late pickups and late payments may result in termination. It sounds to me like this lady is taking advantage of you and is going to continue if you let it happen.

Did you remind her that you have a late payment fee? Is your late payment fee enough to keep families from not being late? I charge $1 per minute and anything after 20 minutes is full rate. This lady is having a hard enough time paying your daily rate so how is she going to be able to afford paying late fees on top of it.

You need to get strict with her, set clear boundaries and fast.

[kassiemom]

I would give her a break but let her know that its a one time thing. Having only been there 4 weeks she is probably getting her payments all figured out. I agree its a business and we are all in the same boat but if you can afford to let her be a few days late this once then i would help her out.

[bright sparks]

First of all, we don't know for sure if she is the one who bought the sneakers, correct? Even so, all too often I have found from personal experience that just because someone complains that they don't have money, I've often found this is not the case at all. I have a sister like that. I listened to her complain for months about how her and her fiancé so badly wanted to get a house but didn't have the down payment etc. I felt had for her and ALMOST offered to help out until....I FOUND OUT THEY MAKE MORE MONEY THAN WE DO?!?! Heck my mother is like that too. By many standards my parents are considered to be pretty well off yet my mother has the gull to complain that they have no money. I have so many more examples but I think you get my drift. It's often not that they don't have money...it's how they prioritize their finances.

Second, why are you even letting her pick up late? If you have set hours, then you have set hours. Call her back and tell her you actually made plans tonight you forgot about and she needs to be there before 4:30. With a pay cheque.

I'm not feeling like this woman is very respectful, she has a lot of guts picking up late after asking to pay late. Just no.

New sneakers do not in any way prove that there actually isn't a money issue. These could have easily been a birthday gift or bought by her ex or a grandparent etc. What is however the main issue now is that this woman is all over the place with your contract....You need to put your foot down now, not roll over and allow her to pick up late. You are allowing her to break your contract by letting her pick up late. If you don't hold her to the signed contract and policies, then really what was the point in having them in the first place. By allowing her this one time to call the shots and decide that she is picking up late without you correcting her, then you are for sure leaving yourself open to further issues. There is a difference between asking if they can do a late pick up and telling you they will be doing a late pick up. Who's running what here?? I would for sure call her and state that you have some concerns over how in the first few weeks of this arrangement she is already breaking contract on more than one occasion. Let her know that you have policies for a reason so therefore she has to stick to them. Advise her as per your contract that pick up must be by 4:30 otherwise late charges will apply and must be paid in full prior to further care being provided. She clearly doesn't hold you and your business in very high regard so you need to put her in her place. I would also just switch to weekly payment if you intend on keeping this child on to prevent future issues with her managing to pay on time. You need to confront these issues head on, face to face right away to stop this from where it looks to be going which isn't a good direction at all.

[Secondtimearound]

People fall into personalities and she sounds like a user . Her child's shoes maybe from someone else who feels sorry for her and is trying to help out because this personality type always make sure everyone knows her business !!!the fact that she is now telling you "her" hours shows zero respect because again that personality type now assumes your just as invested in her life if not more so because you are actually trying to figure it out !!
I had a friend who's husband left her , with 3 kids , she owned her own house , had family but became this huge taker . We were struggling along with four kids and one income and it was nearing Christmas . She was picked by 3 different organizations to sponsor her . She received 3 turkey dinners , presents and money . While we couldn't afford much she was given tons and I remember her changing into this person who expected everyone to help her ! She never thought once of giving back !
My advice is draw a line in the sand so to speak and move on if she crosses it !!

[Lou]

I second the the question: Why did you let her tell YOU that she was picking up past closing? Did you remind her that you close at 4:30? I would have said "Actually I close at 4:30 and have family commitments after that time. Will you be having someone else pick him up by then? When you have it sorted out let me know by noon"

[Lou]

I'm so irked for you! Gah! I would be sending a text that states: "This morning I was caught off guard by your comment about picking up ____ after 5pm. As you will remember in the contract that you signed that I close at precisely 4:30pm as I have family commitments after that time. Also, regarding payment, I can not be flexible in moving around when fees are due. Please arrive tomorrow with full fees for the next two weeks in order to maintain your daycare space. Thank you for your cooperation." Send it!!

[Rachael]

Although I agree that the time to have spoken up was when she said she'd be here after close, I also know what it's like when something so unexpected happens, that for a while you stand like a deer caught in the headlights and in the meantime, the parent nips out the door and is gone.

However, I strongly believe that if you don't enforce your contracts, you can't expect your clients to have any respect for them either. If you don't charge your overdue fee, if you mutely accept late pick ups, even if it comes with a financial penalty, then you are dismissing your own contracts and clients will do the same. Before you know it, this parent will be ringing your doorbell 10 mins before opening, paying late, showing up late, and the list goes on.

It's time to sit down with her. Explain that you close promptly at 4.30pm. For the occasional, unexpected late caused by circumstances like a flat tire, you have a late charge to compensate for your time but it's also there to deter late pick ups because you don't work extended hours. If she cannot be at the day care for closure time, she needs to send someone who can be. This is not negotiable. It is not an open to plan to pick up after closing hours.

The sneakers - although I too would have noticed then - you can't presume that those weren't a gift and since it's the child's birthday, it could be that grandparents/family asked what he needed and this is a birthday gift. I know how it feels though - it's like the parents who moan about struggling as they scan through their new iphone to show you photos from their vacation! LOL

[SevenwatersDaughter]

I agree, I was kind of just caught off guard. I've always struggled to be assertive (but have gotten a LOT better!). Starting Monday, things will be back to normal... no, NO exceptions to the contract... and if she doesn't like it she can take a hike!

Thanks for all the support and advice ladies, it really helped me feel much better about this situation! Much love! Have a great weekend!:)

[mickyc]

So curious - what did you decide on - did you let her change her pay day? How late was she picking up her child? Are you charging the late pickup fee?

[Robyn]

I have a parent that pays me in chunks ($100/day) until she is paid for the week. I am always paid by Thursday for the whole week and this works for us. You have to do what works for you. (also I believe that we should always work with our families one day you may need them to be a bit flexible for you!)