Needing opinions !!

[Secondtimearound]

Ugh !!! I have a 4 !! Year old who refuses to wear socks ! Parents have decided it's her choice . I sent a note explaining with the weather changing we need socks ( and I'm anticipating an issue with gloves , hat ect )
They bring her without socks , we began the morning by putting on socks . After 1 1/2 hr noticed socks were off . I kept it light , please put socks on ! And it was on !!
1 hr of wailing crying ! I have her her blankie , and space and really tried to go on with circle time !! But it was almost impossible with her wailing ! I persevered ! She missed circle time , craft and snack . As soon as she stopped I asked if she wanted help and she did and socks have been on since then . I have written 2 notes to parents and scrapped them ! I'm trying to relax now and I'm trying not to ambush parents with my horrible morning but I'm wondering , should I be bothering ?
I'm frustrated at the moment and considering the length of this outburst deciding if I want to keep working with the family . It isn't the first outburst and besides writing in a book there doesn't seem to be much support . If I mention at pick up to dcd he always expresses shock ! But then I'm told she will outburst at home for 45 min !! Soo while I process my intention to continue care I'm wondering if making her wear socks is a big issue ? I want to pick my battles !!

[Wonderwiper]

Just wondering why you require her to wear socks? I hate socks and never wear them inside. Most of my dck take their socks off pretty soon after arrival.

You mentioned picking battles but wearing socks doesn't seem worthy of a battle IMO. I have no problem letting a 4 year old choose what they want to wear. A 4 year old wailing and needing a blankie would concern me more than lack of socks.

Any reason the socks can't stay with her shoes to be worn for outside time? Maybe slippers would work.

If your issue is lack or support from the family, that's an entirely different story.

[CrazyEight]

My playroom is in the basement. In the late fall/winter I have the heat on all the time but I still require everybody to wear socks, and better yet slippers or robeez over them.

I don't know...I get what you're saying, is it really worth making a big deal over socks? Especially if dad doesn't care, what happens if you run into a bigger issue with dcg and dad has already "checked out" of caring about issues at daycare because you've brought up so many? I had exactly this problem with my siblings from hell. They were terrible - aggressive, threw tantrums over nothing (I got snowpants tantrums instead of socks tantrums), etc, etc. I began bringing up issues almost every day to dad, and then realised he totally didn't care. I think he had resigned himself to "my kids are sh*ts at daycare, but whatever, she just complains about them, she hasn't gotten rid of them, and I don't have to deal with them, so I'll just let her talk at me, act a bit shocked, and then go."

Once I clued in, I saved my mentioning incidents to major ones, and when I did, I would bring up minor ones. That's something you could try - could you mention the socks as part of a talk about her tantrums in general? Discuss how she seems to have issues following rules, let's make sure we're all on the same page about following through with discipline so it stays consistent, etc, and during the conversation use the socks thing as an example. That way you're bringing it up, it strengthens your argument about behaviour issues, but it doesn't look like you're nit-picking.

I got rid of them in the end. The parents lack of caring about their behaviour coupled with the insane tantrums was more than enough. You may have to do the same. Good luck.

[Secondtimearound]

I should of mentioned I started asking her to wear socks because she would not go outside . She was cold . When I need her to put the socks on to go outside she can't seem to transition .
Personally no socks makes me cringe ! ( no offence !!) I think it is not hygienic . But we did allow her and others in the summer to have bare feet .
Maybe just a bad morning , maybe I'm weird about bare feet !
Thank you for your advice though !! I will let it go and see how it goes !

[Samantha33]

Ssecondtimearound I get it. We all wear socks here with slippers, from fall to spring. The parents are told they have to keep their socks on here. The kids listen to me. I strictly tell them keep the slippers on (or whatever else they like to take off including pants or hair ties) with a not nice face. I don't pull punches with the kids when it's something that matters to me. We are in the basement and it gets cold on their little feet. If they don't listen at home that's the parents problem, but they have to listen here and do. Even temper tantrums they will do at home but at the first sign of a face that looks like it's building into something I look at them sternly and say "NOT HERE". Other than that I'm a pretty nice person lol. If the problem is the parents then it's a different story. I know how hard it is to terminate. We try our best to keep them but sometimes it's not worth it. Why not try and fill the spot without saying anything and when you do give notice to them. Just a thought.

[Secondtimearound]

That's how it is here too , usually ! But wow can this one carry on . I feel like I've had the family forever but it's only been 1 and months .

[SillyGirl_C]

If the parents don't enforce at home, you can still at daycare. Often there is a different rule structure from one place to another and a 4 year old can get the concept.

I think you should keep on her about the socks and eventually she will realize this is a battle she will not win at daycare.

[superfun]

I should of mentioned I started asking her to wear socks because she would not go outside . She was cold . When I need her to put the socks on to go outside she can't seem to transition .
Personally no socks makes me cringe ! ( no offence !!) I think it is not hygienic . But we did allow her and others in the summer to have bare feet .
Maybe just a bad morning , maybe I'm weird about bare feet !
Thank you for your advice though !! I will let it go and see how it goes !

I'm the same. I let the bare feet thing happen all summer, but I'm so happy that it's sock weather again. I just don't like bare feet all over the house.

[Lee-Bee]

Sounds like it's many little things and not just the sock issue.

But, at 4yrs old she is old enough to negotiate and accept a compromise. If the child was already used to you being in charge and accepting your authority I would suggest sitting down and discussing a compromise. She can go barefoot inside on the condition she puts her socks on with no complaint to go outside each day and that the first time she complains about cold feet she has to put her socks on the for the rest of the day, with no complaints. This would give her ownership of the socks while not negatively affecting your day.

BUT, it sounds like she might not be able to put the socks on without complaint when she needs to go outside. This is a whole other issue and would likely make it much harder on you.

[5 Little Monkeys]

I'm the same as wonderwiper.....the only time I wear socks is to go outside in the winter. I can not stand to have socks on and I have hot feet so I think that's why. The odd time I will wear slippers in the house but that is only in Fall/Winter.

I am a fan of choosing my battles and for me, this isn't one I would worry about until it was time to go outside. However, if it's something you are firm on than be consistent and eventually she will realize that it's a daycare rule and socks have to be on. I agree that home and daycare have different rules so what they do at home doesn't matter....do what you need to do at dc. Will she wear slippers instead of socks?

[mickyc]

I find socks a big thing for many! Lol. I am someone who loves socks and also enforces socks in fall, winter and spring. It is non-negotiable for me and there is no way I would negotiate with her. The rules are the rules and that is that! Lol

[Secondtimearound]

I don't know why it bothers me !! But with her it's not just socks . Changing any activity before she is ready is a challenge , and results in the same behaviour . They are a new family and a challenge . They had a nanny and they enjoy eating and tv . Otherwise I'm usually trying to encourage them to cooperate .
Today was a hard , and I don't want a rule just because . I am not sure about this family yet , they just seem unhappy . Getting rain pants on her was the same . I guess first order of business would be to decide if I want to keep looking after them . It was my dhs first day off and he said he had a headache from the crying / whining that went on all day . The happiest part of the day , pouring sand on the grass while another dck was being picked up !! They know they aren't allowed to do that !

[5 Little Monkeys]

I agree with you...I'm not a fan of a rule just to have a rule. I am pretty laid back and if it's not harming them, others or property, I try to let it slide and look at the bigger picture....which is happy and cared for children.

However, I agree with someone else (I can't remember who now lol) and think this is maybe part of a bigger problem. If she is going to give you grief over many many things than maybe letting it slide with her isn't the solution. Sounds like she thinks she's the boss and she can do what she wants. I would want to curb that behaviour now and fast! She is 4 so she should be capable to understand that if she does xxx than yyy happens. Consequences for bad behaviour and rewards for good behaviour. Do her parents give consequences? I had one child who acted out A LOT and IMO it was because she had no rules and no consequences. Once she learned that she did at dc, her behaviour become better.

[Spixie33]

I feel your pain. I am very anal about socks.

I don'twant grubby, sweaty little feet leaving sweat and dirt all over my hardwood and carpets where my own family lives. My own kids play on the carpet and floors and I like to keep it clean for them. I don't find it hygienic and a lot of indoor playgrounds and McDonald's Playland ask for socks for hygienic reasons.

I ask kids to wear socks and I have written it right into my contract now.

I have parents tell me that their kids don't want to wear socks and I just remind them that they are a requirement here because of sanitary reasons and because it can help prevent slivers from the park woodchips or any injury if they step on a toy or pull a toenail.

In your case I would be watching that child like a hawk and put the sock back on a hundred times if that is what it took for her to understand that socks were needed at daycare.

[5 Little Monkeys]

Totally off topic but after reading the posts about feet and socks, it makes me laugh because I find their hands soooo much dirtier! Lol. Slobber, boogers, food etc. I'm going to invest in mini mitts for them all!! Lol jk.

I totally get that socks are for safety on some floors and in play places like mcd's but I don't get the sanitary part? I guess because I don't find feet any grosser than hands. I also think whatever dirtiness is on their feet would be on the socks anyways? It would keep them clean but it wouldn't keep my floors any cleaner.

[superfun]

My first thought would be places like the change room at swimming lessons. My daughter wasn't wearing her water shoes and picked up a wart. If she hadn't shown me, and ran around in bare feet, she would have spread it to other bare feet right?

[5 Little Monkeys]

My first thought would be places like the change room at swimming lessons. My daughter wasn't wearing her water shoes and picked up a wart. If she hadn't shown me, and ran around in bare feet, she would have spread it to other bare feet right?

Makes sense! I'm not familiar with the spreading of warts.....if they had one on their hands would it spread too? Maybe mini mitts isn't so far fetched!! Ha ha

[superfun]

I also don't know much about warts. I could be way off here, and I'm too tired to google. I think the warts on feet are plantars warts (because they only grow on feet), possibly more contagious than other types?

[Secondtimearound]

Lol , I had a visual of little hospital onesies with gloves and face masks !!!
5lm you have a point !! I'm not sure why feet seem dirtier to me !!
And your right , the bigger issue is getting her to listen . I'm confessing this here only , I may have met my match !!! Even when I'm talking directly to her she talks over me and will not stop . I am not a wilting rose , I am forward and confident but , she's not affected by me at all . Her behaviour seems unaffected by me or anyone else . It's hard to explain .

[33 Daiseys]

Because feet are gross!!!!!!!! Athletes feet, Planters warts, smelly, dirty toe nails. Yuck!!!! All daycare children are required to wear both socks and hand soled slippers at all times, except for nap time. And yes that includes summer time.

[5 Little Monkeys]

Lol , I had a visual of little hospital onesies with gloves and face masks !!!
5lm you have a point !! I'm not sure why feet seem dirtier to me !!
And your right , the bigger issue is getting her to listen . I'm confessing this here only , I may have met my match !!! Even when I'm talking directly to her she talks over me and will not stop . I am not a wilting rose , I am forward and confident but , she's not affected by me at all . Her behaviour seems unaffected by me or anyone else . It's hard to explain .

LOL at hospital onesies!! I sorta get the feet thing....I mean I don't want some adult's stinky dirty feet with warts on me but kids feet are so cute!! haha. Regardless, we all have our issues lol.

If she were to talk over me every single time out of defiance, I would simply stop talking and place her in time out with a quick "you are not listening to me. we will talk in two minutes" and keep repeating this until she learns that she has to listen to what I'm saying and not talk over me because it is rude to do that to anyone.

Ugh, my feet are already sweating at the thought of socks and slippers!!! LOL (it does gross me out when people wear shoes without socks though...think of that sweat! blah!! haha )

[Rachael]

I find 4 year olds so challenging. LOL I don't mind them if they have been with me a long time but I be really desperate financially to take a 4 year old into a current vacancy.

There, I said it.

I just find 4 year olds are at that stage where they are challenging authority and ain't nobody got time for that. When they've been here a long time, they already know I say what I mean and I mean what I say but when they come in aged 4, many think they are running the show and they are sadly mistaken, but it takes a while for them to realize that.

I think the sock issue is representative of a battle of wills now. You are the provider likely don't really have a big issue with her bare feet but it's more the outright defiance. She too likely doesn't really mind wearing socks but for her, it's one way she can "win" in your day home.

Maybe, you do address it based on the defiance rather than the action. Like you said, if she talked over you, you'd place her in time out for not listening but in her constantly taking off her socks when you've told her she needs to keep them on, she's not listening either.

I have no magic answers other than doing what I do, and avoiding 4 years olds but I know that's not always viable.

[mickyc]

Feet are dirty! lol, they are not washed often like hands so therefore totally different IMO! LOL I agree with those who are pro-sock! At least with socks I don't see a sweaty footprint behind on my laminate flooring, with bare feet I do and it grosses me out too!

I think of it this way, if I allowed 1 child to not keep their socks on then I have to allow all. If I had to worry about getting everyone's socks on before we go outside then what a pain. I have enough things to put on kids to play outside without throwing socks into the mix.

[Secondtimearound]

I have never had a problem ever with a child , I am an authority figure but this family is different . If I put her on a time out she won't walk and I now have a child dangling from the hand I'm holding . I refuse to pull her and now I'm carrying a 4 yr old ?! So yesterday it was a circus act getting her to time out and then keeping her on time out . My other dcks are waiting for the show to be over so I can actually carry on with our programs . The only leverage I have is snack and that doesn't even phase her while she's melting down !
Every activity they (3siblings) require direct supervision and my involvement . I'm thinking right now that it is not a good match and they should go back to a nanny . I find the parents odd to talk to about anything as I've been told , "she's a free spirit , artistic type " oh ??
I have explained here they are part of a group , but ...
Today I received a note , the kids say they eat macaroni everyday ? Ugh I get soo ticked because I served them kd at their request as they didn't like my homemade and weren't eating . I hate kd !!!!! My dd just had her first try of it when this family started !! ( of course she prefers it ��)
I need to make some decisions !!!

[mickyc]

sounds to me like this family needs to go. Some kids are just not a good fit and you will be so relieved once they are gone. I had a boy who was a "free spirit" too. I just had to be extra hard on him. His thing was being last, so if he acted up he was last for EVERYTHING. He hated it and didn't like me or coming to my house much because of it. His parents allowed him to act like a complete lunatic at pickup time. They lasted a year and then moved on to a licenced centre. I was so happy to see him go!

[Secondtimearound]

Good advice !!! I did that today ! We are finishing a unit study on our senses , so we did a overview and they tried everything to do what I was asking wrong , so I only did their turn last . I think so much attention is put on them and their "feelings" .

[5 Little Monkeys]

I still think children's hands are dirtier than their feet LOL. Adults maybe not! Haha

I would be telling her that her time out starts when she is sitting nice. Every time you have to talk to her or put her back the time out starts again.

I had one child who time outs didn't work for though. She was perfectly content to sit all day in one if she had too. I started taking away the privilege of sitting on the pink chair if her behaviour wasn't good. This was the magical switch in her behaviour!

[Secondtimearound]

Lol !!!! I am grossed out by both !!! But maybe because usually feet are covered ?? I'm looking at jagged little toe nails !!!! Ewww
I haven't found her Achilles heel yet !!! Although today taking my focus off her and her attempts at my attention has her at least paying attention !!

[5 Little Monkeys]

Hopefully time outs or her Achilles heel ( once you find it lol) will start to help with her behaviour.