Day Care for $15.00 per day, Nationally - NDP Proposal

[Rachael]

I just read this on-line.

Interesting for sure but I wonder what this means for the future of day care providers and if we will all have to be registered.

http://globalnews.ca/news/1613150/ndp-proposes-national-15-a-day-child-care-program/

[cfred]

I don't think it's going to happen. Many figure Mulcair is doing this to hold on to his Quebec seats and as not much more than pre-election propaganda. Cananda doesn't have the money, plain and simple. I've been reading the comments threads on most of the articles out there. The majority I've seen are against the idea. Those who are for a national childcare plan tout Quebec as the prime example of daycare done right...despite the fact that it's now out of money, that the rest of Canada is subsidizing it, they're contemplating moving to a sliding scale, the children tested lower than average, there's a massive waiting list to get a $7 space with many having to use ICPs and 14000 workers walked off the job this past summer due to working conditions and poor pay. They'll also note Scandinavian countries as having the magic ticket, but forget the massive tax burden.

There's a very small slice of demographic in Canada that wants this. I'd be very surprised if it happens any time soon. I'm on par with those against it. If you wish to have children, that's wonderful....but they're your children, not mine. Just as I'm not going to put gas in your car, I'm not particularly interested in paying for your kids. I think increasing subsidy for families that are really in need...fine. But I know lots of people making very comfortable incomes who could probably sort out their finances a little better, make some sacrifices and be just fine. If I can make it on my piddly $40k, I'm pretty sure those above me can probably figure it out for the 3 years they need full time daycare.

[mickyc]

I always laugh when the government states they are going to create all these daycare spaces. UMMMMM....you have to have people to work in those centre's in order to have the ability to open spaces. Why would someone want to spend the money to go to school only to make a mediocre wage when they can stay private and make more money in the end.

I doubt it will ever happen.

[cfred]

I was listening to Heidi Higgins (CICPO) on the radio this morning (Ed Hand show I believe). I may not have the numbers exactly right, but in the ballpark - apparently after the numbers are crunched they're opening something in the area of 370, 000 daycare spots....ACROSS CANADA! We have 350, 000 in Ontario alone! They still won't have enough spaces for everyone. According to the article I've linked below, it's often the 'well to do' who get to the front of the line for those cheaper services. A good example would be a professor of ECE from Quebec I debated this very issue with yesterday. She claimed that the Quebec system is awesome and her family benefited greatly from it..the system works just fine in her eyes. I suggested that for her, an ECE prof with an automatic 'in' into the system, it was probably great....not so much for my friends who weren't lucky enough to partake. This still isn't going to fix our daycare crisis, but man, can those who are touting the national daycare plan idea ever crazy about it....CRAZY! This is their magic bullet apparently.

http://fullcomment.national post.com/2014/10/15/andrew-coyne-the-flaw-in-mulcairs-child-care-plan-not-all-parents-want-their-kids-in-daycare/

[SillyGirl_C]

My husband and I make great money, but our childcare for one kid is equal to a mortgage payment on a small condo in Metro Vancouver. We are having a second baby and I fully expect the daycare fees to bury us (but the kid is well worth it).

My point is that parents need some help with daycare but a $15/day plan is NOT the answer. It is detrimental to the industry (both in quality and choice) and gives new parents a false sense of the costs of raising children.

Perhaps an increase in the child allowances, or daycare supplements.... I don't have the answer. All I know is that the system in Quebec does not work...so why would it work on a broader scale??

[cfred]

That's kind of what I was thinking...increasin g the the childcare benefit, perhaps on a sliding scale based on income? Not sure how a perfect system would work, but a national daycare plan isn't ideal. I think also, that somewhere along the line some consideration might need to be given the ECEs working in those daycares. It's a crappy job with even crappier pay. I've not heard many people looking to make it better for them. In fact, do they factor into the equation at all?

[33 Daiseys]

THE DAY THIS HAPPENS I'M OUT...... I will be debt free in 4 months, and at that point fu@@ that noise. There is no way that only being able to have three children at 225.00 a week will i work 10 hour days. Nope not me. I was talking to some local dcp's, and if this were to happen the city of ottawa would be out 17 providers.

[cfred]

That's kind of my point. I feel for families, I really do. The cost of daycare is horrendous! BUT...I'm not living high off the hog here. Though my rates are the highest in my area, as with all providers, the expenses come out of that. And those expenses are substantial. What's left leaves me able to pay my necessities with a bit left over. I don't know a single provider who lives high off the hog. ECEs are never, ever mentioned in these articles beyond the obligatory, token comment about making it better for them. I call BS.....people are only concerned about the cost to families. While I'm all for affordable daycare, I think everyone also needs to consider who's providing that care, the difficulty of the job, the long (loooooong) hours and immense responsibility on our shoulders. Why should we not expect to make a decent income from it....one that allows us a reasonably comfortable life? I'm really sick of factoring in at the bottom of the heap when it comes to the daycare debate. The fact is that it does cost money to take care of children...lots of it! It has to come from somewhere. ECEs have been known, throughout the existence of daycare, to subsidize this for cost for families by being so poorly compensated in order to keep the costs down. This was actually info I gleaned in one of my ECE classes, back in the day. If we were actually paid what we SHOULD be paid, no one would be having kids.

[AmandaKDT]

Don't hold me to this, but it likely that the $15 a day would only be the PARENT fees. With being licensed I charge the parents only $18.20 per day but I get government grant money on top of that for every one of my daycare spots. There is no way I could do this otherwise, it is not enough income with just the parent fees.

Not that I think this election promise is going to happen, but just thought I would share that info.

[cfred]

Oh, for sure AmandaKDT. The government would pay the remainder. But you can bet that the rates won't be kept at the levels that they are now. I'm currently $46/day. I'd be absolutely shocked if I got anywhere near that with government setting the fees. They'll want to keep the costs as low as possible because taxpayers are going to be flipping out about more taxes. You can be darned sure it'll be ECEs who will subsidize the rates, once again. It has always, always, always been this way. I get the plight on both sides. However, ECEs need to start standing up for themselves. We can't and shouldn't always be expected to take the hit to satisfy everyone else.

I'd be pretty surprised if this went through at all. I think the majority of people get that it's a flawed system in Quebec. They also know that the taxes in Scandanavian countries are astronomical. There are lots and lots of people out there who are not for a universal daycare plan.

[AmandaKDT]

Oh, for sure AmandaKDT. The government would pay the remainder. But you can bet that the rates won't be kept at the levels that they are now. I'm currently $46/day. I'd be absolutely shocked if I got anywhere near that with government setting the fees. They'll want to keep the costs as low as possible because taxpayers are going to be flipping out about more taxes. You can be darned sure it'll be ECEs who will subsidize the rates, once again. It has always, always, always been this way. I get the plight on both sides. However, ECEs need to start standing up for themselves. We can't and shouldn't always be expected to take the hit to satisfy everyone else.

I'd be pretty surprised if this went through at all. I think the majority of people get that it's a flawed system in Quebec. They also know that the taxes in Scandanavian countries are astronomical. There are lots and lots of people out there who are not for a universal daycare plan.

Yes, I really don't see how it would work overall. There needs to be a more complex explanation provided on how exactly the program would work. In Manitoba, a majority of private home daycares charge around $30 a day whereas in other provinces it is much more than that. Also the minimum wage, cost of living, etc. varies from province to province. So how can it make sense that it is $15 nationally. There is no way the government would subsidize you $30 per day per spot to keep you on par with the rates you charge now.

[33 Daiseys]

not to mention that you only get the top off every 3 months with an agency.

[Rachael]

Don't hold me to this, but it likely that the $15 a day would only be the PARENT fees. With being licensed I charge the parents only $18.20 per day but I get government grant money on top of that for every one of my daycare spots. There is no way I could do this otherwise, it is not enough income with just the parent fees.

Not that I think this election promise is going to happen, but just thought I would share that info.

Yes - that's how I imagined it would be. Parents paying $15 and the government settling the rest. There's no way day carers or centres can live off just $15 a day - that $1.50 per hour so $9 if full before expenses. Below minimum wage.

I think my concern is that the government settling the difference might mean we all have to be registered and here, that makes no sense if you have any business ability yourself. The numbers are exactly the same registered or not but there are restrictions on ages for those registered. This means instead of just trying to find a client who is a good match, I'd also have to find one whose child happens to be the right age for the vacancy.

Wow - so even subsidiary work differently across the county? That's really interesting.

In NS, a registered provider can still only have 6 kids including her own however they can take subsidized clients. But the providers are NOT paid for each of the places carte blanche.

What happens is the parents are assessed and awarded subsidary based on their income, work/school hours, etc. The MAX amount is $22 a day for all day care and $17 for BAS care but few are entitled to that much support.

So those clients who do get assistance, pay the outstanding amount of Day care fees - their personal subsided amounts. Therefore every single client getting assistance is paying a different amount. There is no government top up unless the individual qualifies for it so it's common to have a mixture of clients paying full cost and clients paying part with the government settling up the difference the following month only for those entitled to help.

EDIT


not to mention that you only get the top off every 3 months with an agency.

Another difference.

Here the provider does the paperwork at month end and submits to the agency. The agency files with the government who about a week later, send the fees. Then the agency divides the one government payment up between the carers based on entitlement. Can take a couple of weeks or so.

So if a provider her was charging say $35 a day and the family had been assessed as getting $20 in assistance, the family would pay their $15 as per the providers pay schedule. But the rest would have to wait until the end of the month + approx 2 weeks for the government $20.

[superfun]

Wow - so even subsidiary work differently across the county? That's really interesting.

In NS, a registered provider can still only have 6 kids including her own however they can take subsidized clients. But the providers are NOT paid for each of the places carte blanche.

What happens is the parents are assessed and awarded subsidary based on their income, work/school hours, etc. The MAX amount is $22 a day for all day care and $17 for BAS care but few are entitled to that much support.

So those clients who do get assistance, pay the outstanding amount of Day care fees - their personal subsided amounts. Therefore every single client getting assistance is paying a different amount. There is no government top up unless the individual qualifies for it so it's common to have a mixture of clients paying full cost and clients paying part with the government settling up the difference the following month only for those entitled to help.


I find this so interesting to learn about the differences across Canada. Like AmandaKDT mentioned, if you choose to get licensed, and choose to be funded, the parents pay 18.20/day to the provider and we get additional funding every 3 months for every spot. If a parent qualifies for subsidy, they get approved for a certain amount, for example I'll say they get approved for the maximum amount. They are still responsible for $2/day, and at the end of each 4 week period, I receive the remainder (16.20/day) from the province.

[Rachael]

I find this so interesting to learn about the differences across Canada. Like AmandaKDT mentioned, if you choose to get licensed, and choose to be funded, the parents pay 18.20/day to the provider and we get additional funding every 3 months for every spot. If a parent qualifies for subsidy, they get approved for a certain amount, for example I'll say they get approved for the maximum amount. They are still responsible for $2/day, and at the end of each 4 week period, I receive the remainder (16.20/day) from the province.

Really interesting. No top up or additional funding here at all!

It's literally a case of the parents paying their carer's rate less any subsidiary the have been assessed as being entitled to, and the government paying via the agency, the subsidiary amount.

No top ups.
No extra funding.
No funding for places empty.
No funding for places occupied by clients not entitled to subsidiary.

So for us, it's the 6 places max and our income is wholly number of places occupied x daily rate
(which might be paid by parent or parent & subsidiary combination).

[Van]

Good for you to be Debt free in 4 months 33 Daisys

I agree with everyone -it means more taxes and the gov will not give us our full fees
so we would lose out
as Sillygirl_C said daycare fees are not cheap in Vancouver
a lot of Parents would want the cheap d/care but not the taxes
what about the people who don't want children but their taxes are raised too to pay for daycare