Rally - bill 10

[cfred]

Who's up for a ROAD TRIP!?

We are going to have a public awareness campaign in front of MPP Liz Sandals office regarding Bill 10 The Childcare Modernization Act.
The campaign is intended to bring awareness about ICP's concerns regarding Bill 10, while Minister Sandals is in her home town riding.
The intention is for concerned providers and parents to come from all over Southern Ontario.

We are running out of time to have our concerns heard. We want this Bill to travel at the committee stage. Min. Sandals wants it wrapped up by Christmas. We have to act now!

[Teagansmom]

I'm trying to organize a rally in Toronto at Queens Park sometime in November, if anyone is interested in attending please let me know if you would prefer a weekday or weekend? I honestly think that a weekday while the legislature is in session will have a huge impact also will send a message to our dc families to take bill 10 seriously.

[cfred]

I would attend that. Depending on the day, I could do it through the week....I could possibly get my sister to cover the daycare. Having just come off vacation on Nov.9th I don't think I could close for another day. Already took a day for press conference with Garfield. On a weekend, definitely! During week....very possibly

[cfred]

I would suggest, Teagansmom, that you shoot to do it the same day as the others for optimal impact. Unfortunately, one date is the 9th and one the 10th. I'm flying home on the 9th and can't do the 10th. My sister, who would cover for me, has a course for her job and will be gone. Clients have been wonderful about this so far, but taking another day on top of a week vacation might cause a couple to blow a gasket.

Have you sent a letter in to me yet? If not, get whatever you've got in to my personal email by tonight so I can print it off and send with the rest. I'm gone as of Sunday morning, so I've got to have it wrapped up by tonight to FedEx tomorrow. c.a.fredenburgh@gmai l.com

There' no space between the i and l in gmail from my email addy....it just keeps showing up like that in here.

[Teagansmom]

Yes I did send you a letter, I've decided to forgo the rally. Seems to be no interest in holding a rally in Toronto for a weekday

[jodaycare]

Here is the info for the upcoming rally

CICPO Guelph Rally at Min. Sandals office
Sunday, November 9 at 11:00am
Community/Constituency Office 173 Woolwich Street Guelph N1H 3V4


We NEED your support for this one! Time is running out! If you care about the future of daycare, PLEASE come and join us. If you are on facebook, go to the Coalition of Independent Childcare Providers page and join the event.

[bright sparks]

Here is the info for the upcoming rally

CICPO Guelph Rally at Min. Sandals office
Sunday, November 9 at 11:00am
Community/Constituency Office 173 Woolwich Street Guelph N1H 3V4


We NEED your support for this one! Time is running out! If you care about the future of daycare, PLEASE come and join us. If you are on facebook, go to the Coalition of Independent Childcare Providers page and join the event.


Just curious why this is being organized for a Sunday again? I'm not on FB so can't start a discussion there. Is Liz going to be at the office on a Sunday? Highly unlikely so seems like it's going to have little to no effect and/or impact on the bill. Yes it is problematic to have this take place on a work day, but a Sunday is just a bad idea in my opinion and from discussing the day of action being held on a Sunday with the people at the Hamilton location, the majority all thought it was a bad idea too. Liz will no doubt be tucked up at home not giving us a second thought. We need to disrupt the industry to have any kind of impact in my opinion and Sunday just seems like the worst day of the week to try and get anything achieved. Do this on a Weekday, when Liz is onsite and resulting in an actual impact on the industry is much more productive. I really do understand that the Sunday is being used due to those providers who are either unable to take midweek time off or don't want to upset their daycare families, but fact is that's the only way to make people pay attention. On a Sunday most people with either not even know about it or laugh at us for taking such a passive approach. Just my 2 cents....I'll take a day off and if it pisses my daycare families off, GOOD! Perhaps then they will start making some noise and take some action.

[jodaycare]

I am not organizing it, just passing on the info. I was at the day of action in Oakville and we had almost 60 people! A success as far as I am concerned, Garfield Dunlop came to the rally in Oakville and he will be attending this one too. This rally is more to create public awareness. The organizers are collecting donations to pay for an official media release and are working on getting a major TV network to report on it as well. We want her constituents to know how unmotivated she is to listen to the people who pay her salary.

[bright sparks]

I am not organizing it, just passing on the info. I was at the day of action in Oakville and we had almost 60 people! A success as far as I am concerned, Garfield Dunlop came to the rally in Oakville and he will be attending this one too. This rally is more to create public awareness. The organizers are collecting donations to pay for an official media release and are working on getting a major TV network to report on it as well. We want her constituents to know how unmotivated she is to listen to the people who pay her salary.


I understand, I really do and not being on FB I really appreciate everyone updating the forum on the new developments. I'm just voicing my opinions that's all. I just don't think it's the most effective course of action holding a rally on a Sunday. The day of action was great but a success is not my overview of it when for example all daycare providers to my knowledge in the Niagara region fell silent although multiple people from all over the place reached out to them with resounding rejection. I hope there were other Niagara providers who attended unbeknownst to me. People turning out for the day of action is only deemed a success in my opinion if it has some kind of impact and had it been on a weekday, I imagine the repercussions would have been far more substantial. Not to say that it wasn't worth doing, I for one attended my closest location but I think that it likely had minimal effect. I for one will not be attending the Sunday Rally as I just don't think it's productive. I actually can't anyway as I have University open houses to attend. I would gladly without question attend on a weekday and will continue to support the cause in other ways but protesting is ineffective if it is not executed correctly. Switch the Sunday to a weekday and the results will likely be very different. Maybe it's the English in me who are far less passive and just like Europeans are all in when it comes to these kind of fights. I called several newspapers with regards to the day of action and none were even remotely interested. Did you get any media coverage at the Oakville location? I spoke to others in different locations who got no interest too. It's so disheartening and won't stop me from trying but I can't give up my minimal family time to invest in methods I don't believe to be very effective. It doesn't mean I don't support it, but I'm not driving over an hour to something that I just don't believe will have much of an impact when I believe my time could be better invested in other areas of fighting this bill. I know you didn't organize this and I appreciate the logistics in pleasing others and appealing to the majority. I'm just using this forum and this post to voice my views. I certainly don't intend to point fingers or negate anyone's efforts in fighting this cause.

[bright sparks]

I am not organizing it, just passing on the info. I was at the day of action in Oakville and we had almost 60 people! A success as far as I am concerned, Garfield Dunlop came to the rally in Oakville and he will be attending this one too. This rally is more to create public awareness. The organizers are collecting donations to pay for an official media release and are working on getting a major TV network to report on it as well. We want her constituents to know how unmotivated she is to listen to the people who pay her salary.

I think media coverage is crucial especially for Sunday rallies. Please keep us informed if you don't mind on how people can contribute and donate as Id like to help.

[jodaycare]

We did have the Oakville Beaver and Cogeco TV at the Oakville rally. The article was posted on Friday I believe. Donations are through www.gofundme.com , look for CICPO Guelph Rally to Amend Bill 10.

Also this week in the legislature, the Day of Action was mentioned by several MPPs and Garfield told Sandals that another rally was being planned in her home riding.

There is also a massive letter writing campaign going on, over 150 letters have been couriered to Garfield Dunlop and he will be presenting them in the legislature. If you havent already, send letters letting the government know how the bill will affect you and have your parents do the same. At the top of your letter please put in bold capital letters the number of children you have in care and how many will have to be let go as a result of Bill 10. Send them to daycarebill10@yahoo. com

[Teagansmom]

I totally agree with you bright sparks, I tried to organize a rally in Toronto on a weekday and no one was up for it. Many have not even informed their dc families about the bill because they are afraid they will look for care elsewhere. How are families suppose to be informed if we are not educating them. IMO we just look like providers worried about losing out income rather then the parents worried about losing their spots. For those parents that do know about the bill many don't seem yo really care. I think they need to be inconvienced by all providers taking a day off to protest this will get their attention. I understand how many providers can't afford to take a day off but in the end they need to understand that one missed day of income may ensure 10 years of income by standing up to this bill. I got so frustrated that now I decided to opt out on organizing anything. Also I'm not willing to spend to once again spend my weekend at a rally where many don't want to come out and participate and inform their dc families or for families who don't care

[bright sparks]

I totally agree with you bright sparks, I tried to organize a rally in Toronto on a weekday and no one was up for it. Many have not even informed their dc families about the bill because they are afraid they will look for care elsewhere. How are families suppose to be informed if we are not educating them. IMO we just look like providers worried about losing out income rather then the parents worried about losing their spots. For those parents that do know about the bill many don't seem yo really care. I think they need to be inconvienced by all providers taking a day off to protest this will get their attention. I understand how many providers can't afford to take a day off but in the end they need to understand that one missed day of income may ensure 10 years of income by standing up to this bill. I got so frustrated that now I decided to opt out on organizing anything. Also I'm not willing to spend to once again spend my weekend at a rally where many don't want to come out and participate and inform their dc families or for families who don't care

I hear what you are saying. It's very frustrating. Some days I am able to detach emotion from the situation and try not to get to worked up, but I'm human and it's not always possible lol When I saw something else was being arranged for a Sunday, I immediately got annoyed. The inconveniences to different people is what is going to attract the most attention and have the greatest chance of change. When people start making noise then people will be forced to pay attention more. A weekend rally is making it far to convenient for the industry in which case it will be highly surprising to me if it has much of an impact on the bills amendments which is a dammed bloody shame considering the time and money people have put into organizing this. I can not get over the fact that Toronto didn't hold a day of action and I am even more upset that Niagara Region providers fell silent which really makes me think more and more that there will be a significant increase in underground illegal daycares as a result. It's as if people are trying to go unnoticed now and not draw any attention to themselves so if the bill passes as is, they hope they can just continue as they are doing, likely not adhering to the ratios outlined in the law.

Obviously a weekend rally is better than nothing but for reasons I have stated before, will, I fear, be a lot of hard work for potentially not a lot of results. Protests aren't supposed to please people or be convenient, so to me, this just isn't good enough.

[jodaycare]

I understand your frustration with people not seeming to care, I am disappointed that Toronto didnt participate in the Day of Action as well, my city didnt either but several of us from here made the trek to oakville to show our support and I have contacted several providers here in my city without much success. However, this is not the time to give up just because of feeling frustrated. We are ALL frustrated with the whole process, especially the fact that Minister Sandals avoids every question that is asked of her and the fact that she will not respond to phone calls or emails! There is a weekday rally being organized in Ottawa for Mon Nov 10. As for the Guelph rally, we have 54 people confirmed so far and we have arranged for a an official press release to go out. Honestly, if we make enough noise on Sunday, Sandals WILL hear about from her constituents, whether she shows up or not.

[bright sparks]

I understand your frustration with people not seeming to care, I am disappointed that Toronto didnt participate in the Day of Action as well, my city didnt either but several of us from here made the trek to oakville to show our support and I have contacted several providers here in my city without much success. However, this is not the time to give up just because of feeling frustrated. We are ALL frustrated with the whole process, especially the fact that Minister Sandals avoids every question that is asked of her and the fact that she will not respond to phone calls or emails! There is a weekday rally being organized in Ottawa for Mon Nov 10. As for the Guelph rally, we have 54 people confirmed so far and we have arranged for a an official press release to go out. Honestly, if we make enough noise on Sunday, Sandals WILL hear about from her constituents, whether she shows up or not.

I love your attitude jodaycare. We need people like you to lift the spirits of those of us feeling at times like we are defeated. Don't mistaken me for giving up though, just simply stating my thoughts from a different angle.

[jodaycare]

Thank you for your kind words, Bright Sparks. I am passionate about this, I have been in business for a looonngg time. I am angry that some politician, who has absolutely no experience or education in the field that she is the Minister of , thinks that she can just make some new rules without consulting the people that do the work every day and who look after most of the children that are of daycare age. I sit and watch the webcast and want to wring her neck everytime she opens her mouth! I am terrified that even with all of our hard work, the bill will still go through anyway.

[torontokids]

I think one of the realities of this line of work and why there can be so much apathy is that simply, a lot of us do this as an interim solution to our own childcare issues, not a long term career choice. I think a lot of us don't plan on doing this long term in the beginning. Some of us start off with a clear end date in our heads e.g. when own child enters kindergarten and others start to love the job the more they do it. The field can be quite transient as a result and full of those that are struggling in managing the job (and contemplating quitting) and those that have been doing it forever and don't care anymore. It is the in between people I think that are being the most active.

For myself, I think it is important to know that Toronto is a bit of a different animal. There are too many providers at the moment as a lot of moms have decided to go this route because they simply can't afford the cost of childcare in our city ($60+ a day for home daycare, $100 a day for infant centre care). I think this is where the apathy comes in (not that it's right) but most of us would just close up shop if it's not financially feasible anymore. A lot of centres are actually hurting for kids in some parts of Toronto and alerting parents of the Bill I know will cause some of them to look elsewhere for care and unfortunately for me as I have a lot of kids 2+ yrs old, they will find it. If parents are happy in your daycare, they don't look for care elsewhere and therefore aren't aware that there may be something else available (and possibly cheaper.)

I am not defending the actions of those in Toronto (as we have specifically been called out) I am just shedding a little more light on the matter. I myself have written letters, posted on forums and contacted my MPP. I have not told my daycare families for fear of them leaving (like I said, care is not as hard to come by as a lot of people think). I also would not be in a position to close for the day and leave my families without care. They need me to be reliable and I can't afford to loose them.

[Fun&care]

Sometimes I wonder if lackluster turnouts are perhaps because maybe not all providers agree with the demands the CICPO (?) is making-please don't attack me for saying this. I have been holding my tongue for a while, because I am pretty sure I am the odd one out but....I don't agree with NOT including your own kids under 6. I am not attacking anyone personally here. I have seen providers in my area carting around 7-8 kids and I'm sorry but it's just not right. It's too much. The 2 under 2 rule on the other hand definitely is ridiculous but I just don't understand how anyone can expect parents and the general public to accept having 5 kids plus your own (2,3,4 more?) is ok.

[playfelt]

I think what bothers most of us is that the changes are not necessary to bring any kind of increased safety. These rules have been around since forever in the day nurseries act and at a time when larger families of 3-4 kids was more normal so one mom looking after a group of 8-10 kids was normal and children entered care at 4-6 months of age due to the 6 month mat leave. What is hard for newer moms to accept is that large families are a way of life for those that truly love teaching and nurturing children and totally doable. I am into my 28th year of daycare, a mom to 4 kids including one with special needs and have always tried to stay filled with 5 children and haven't done school age care so only taking 5 under JK age since my third child started school (homeschooled our fourth one as part of the daycare group).

[CrazyEight]

Fun&care, I understand your concern, but I think it has to be up to the PARENTS to decide what is safe and acceptable for THEIR child. I have 3 kids of my own (6, 5, and 2) and have 5 daycare kids. But I chose to have 2 B/A school dckids and 3 full-time. I am actually UNDER ratio for the majority of the day, home with my own 2-year-old and 3 others all around age 2. My families picked me in part because of my own children; they knew their kids would have playmates their own age, they knew I would treat their kids as I treat my own. They made an educated choice, and they should continue to have the OPTION to do so. This Bill will not increase safety, it will take away parental choice.

The DNA has been law for over 40 years. Yes, it needs updating, but of the 6 deaths in the last few years that have hit the news, how many have been in daycares actually following the rules? Only ONE. The rest were in illegal warehousing daycares, with 20+ kids. The current ratios have been proven, in the vast majority of cases, to be safe.

The solution lies not in reducing our numbers and therefore our ability to make an income for our families, but in allowing us to be independently licensed and therefore overseen by the government.

While 7-8 kids may be too much for some, for some it is perfectly manageable, and parents must be held accountable for making a decision as to where to place their child. I have zero problems supervising my group and make sure each one gets plenty of one-on-one time. My clients should be allowed the choice to choose me, if they feel the same way. If they don't, and would rather a provider with no children or only their own older children, they should be free to make that choice too. The point is parental choice, and this Bill will take that away. Taking away my ability to make a living based solely on the number of children I have, and making it a blanket decision across the province, isn't fair nor logical, and it won't improve the safety of children across this province, which the Liberals say is what they are aiming to do.

[Tinyones1981]

I am just doing research on this topic to fill myself in where is the best resource? Is there a date to when this bill would enforced if its passed (which is completely scary!!!) I'm informing all my parents so they know what is going on and how it affects them and my daycare. Where can I go to find all the things they are pushing for and all the changes they will implement so I can pass this on to my parents and inform them of everything.

Thanks in advance!!!!

[Fun&care]

I don't think it's a question of whether it's manageable or not though. The problem is how do we convince the general public that one person can care for 5 6 7+ kids? I'm not even going to try. These days most households have 1-2 kids and parents struggle with just that many. Add to the fact that where the injuries or deaths occurred were in overcrowded daycares...it just doesn't paint a pretty picture. And yes I realize they were running illegally but the problem is parents clearly don't know what's legal and what's not sadly, even when it comes to their child's safety and well being. There needs to be a set ratio IMO that both private and agency daycares follow so there is less confusion.

[CrazyEight]

www.cicpo.ca

the website for the Coalition of Independent Childcare Providers, it will give you all the info you need.

www.ontla.on.ca

that's the parliament webpage where you can find the transcripts of all the debates and info on what stage the Bill is currently in.

Right now, it has passed the debate stage, and goes to a committee of MPP's that discuss all the info submitted from affected parties. We have lobbied hard for this committee to travel around Ontario during the winter, to hear from providers and parents across the province, before it decides on what amendments, if any, need to be made. Then the Bill will have a third reading, then they will vote. The Liberals want this passed before Christmas. The PC and the NDP are lobbying for a travelling committee - for completely different reasons, but at this point, any one saying the Bill should travel is ok with me! If the committee DOES travel, the third reading wouldn't happen until sometime in late February or March, as parliament goes back in session after Family Day.

Any more questions, just ask.

[soshell]

Anyone from the Milton area attending the rally on Sunday in Guelph?