Bill 10 Update

[jodaycare]

They adjourned debate yesterday. Here is an update from one of the CICPO founders

UPDATE: I have just been informed that there will be a vote tomorrow morning on time-allocating the debate on Bill 10. The motion will pass as the Liberals have a majority government. The Bill will not travel.
It is IMPERATIVE that as many parents and providers find a way to speak to Committee at Queen's Park. The dates for Committee are: Monday. November 17th from 2-6 and 6:30-8:00pm and Tuesday, November 18th from 4-6 and 6:30-8:00 pm.
Applications to present must be made through the Clerk of the Standing Committee on Social Policy. Here is the link:
http://www.ontla.on.ca/lao/en/getting-involved/participation-in-committees/attending-committee-hearings.html
As this process is, in some ways, based on first come, first serve, we urge you to make your application immediately. For those of you who cannot travel to Toronto, we are hoping that the evening meetings will allow tele- and/or vido-conferencing. We should have confirmation of that by tomorrow or Wed at the latest.
We will continue to hold our scheduled rallies in Guelph and Ottawa. More rallies will only help. We need as much media attention on the matter as possible. Not enough people are aware of the Bill or what they will be facing in the future. Please share.

[bright sparks]

Oh Jeez, that makes me extra anxious now to learn that the bill will definitely not travel. Boy is cfred ever in for a surprise when she comes back off vacation. Everyone has to fight with all they have now, but I really can't help but think that the decision has already been made and they couldn't give a rats ass what anyone else has to say, they couldn't care less. It's a shame that it's a majority government, so really doesn't that mean that regardless, even if every other member of the house were against this it would still get passed?

I've got early morning, pre caffeine ramble going on so excuse me ladies

[Polkaroo]

I'm just curious to know how many of you are planning on closing when the bill goes through and if you're not closing (for many reasons) what is your plan? I myself will close, just curious to know what others are planning on doing.

[bright sparks]

I was actually going to ask similar questions Polkaroo. What are providers going to do who have their under 2 spots taken by part timers?? Also has there been any talk at all about grandfathering children in who are already in spots or will there be an immediate mass of termination without notice given?? I have 3 under 2, but two of them turn 2 in February. My third isn't turning 2 until August. It took me nearly a year to fill this spot so I accepted a 3 day week place. I am only open Mon-Thurs. I was considering giving 30 days notice to this family that due to the change in law, I would require that all under 2 placements be for the 4 day a week and there would be a significant rate increase. I currently charge $45 a day. For under 2 I was considering $60 a day. Yes it's hard on the parent and I don't like having to do it, but that's the reality, I have to do it. If they don't like it, which really why would they, it's not like they will have a lot of options for childcare and if they did leave, I'd no doubt have a line up of families fighting for the spot. I'm not sure if I should maybe give this family a heads up now, I don't want them to leave, but I do think if I were in their shoes, I'd like a bit of notice. That being said, I have told all my families about the bill with the general response being "whatever", it's not my responsibility to keep them up to date beyond that. Just like we have to keep ourselves informed, so do they. By all means ask me for updates, but I have enough to do trying to keep up to date myself, they should take some responsibility and interest in how this effects them and keep well informed too. I have a mom of one of the nearly 2 year olds who is also due to have a baby in May. I want to give her a heads up just to be kind so she can try and secure a spot asap.

[Busy ECE mommy]

My daycare parents support the bill because it will mean smaller group size for most providers. I have one having a baby soon, and I've tried to explain that there will be a shortage of spots, but she doesn't think it will be reality. I don't think that they understand that I'll will likely be closing shortly. I've already begun academic upgrading, as I anticipated this bill would pass.

[bright sparks]

My daycare parents support the bill because it will mean smaller group size for most providers. I have one having a baby soon, and I've tried to explain that there will be a shortage of spots, but she doesn't think it will be reality. I don't think that they understand that I'll will likely be closing shortly. I've already begun academic upgrading, as I anticipated this bill would pass.

I'm going to school in September too having already been accepted but it will definitely effect that decision significantly if the bill passes early, current children aren't grandfathered in and I have to take a sudden drop in enrollment due to the ratio restrictions. I think a lot of people are planning ahead which is smart, but I also think a lot are trying to disappear into the shadows so they can keep operating as they are and hope they don't get caught being off on their ratios.

[CrazyEight]

I'm not a snitch, but you can bet your a$$ that I'll be reporting any provider that I confirm is over in numbers. Why the hell would I take a 40% cut in income while they get to feign ignorance and operate outside of the law?

I'm going to stay open, with 3 kids of my own and my husband's hours all over the place, and only having one vehicle, there is no feasible way for me to bring in enough after daycare costs. But I'll now be making LESS than $20,000 BEFORE expenses. Yep, that's below the poverty line. Now granted, my income is only part of my household income, but my husband works in retail management - certainly not big bucks there.

We're just lucky that our mortgage is affordable - no more dreaming of a bigger house. It also puts a serious damper on our plans for one more baby. I think we still will, because we can survive off my reduced income, but it means resigning myself to that as a max income for the next 4 years, until my (current) youngest turns 6.

It's not over yet guys....the official vote on whether or not the committee will travel won't take place until this afternoon, and we can still apply to speak to the committee or send letters to be read to the committee. It's not over till it's over, and the only way I'll be ok with myself is if I keep fighting until the end.

[Samantha33]

I know that where I live people won't go for an increase in fees at all. I already charge near the top end and in order to make up for the loss of one child I'd have to charge so much extra that the price alone would cause a mandatory close. The underground will become ever so popular and not get caught. I know I will report "BUT" there are lots of people who won't so the underground will get bigger. How is the government going to charge them if they don't know of them. We can only close so many of them. IMO not enough to make a difference.

[torontokids]

My plan is to get pregnant ASAP and go on mat leave once the baby comes. After that yr off my 2nd will be starting kindergarten and I will have to decide about the 3rd baby. Either have them go into daycare or start back up again. I think I am kind of mentally done with daycare though to be honest. My dream would be to move out of Toronto to live near my family, throw our equity onto a new house and stay home with my kids...oh, to dream. We almost had the chance to do this but my husband didn't get that job. :(

[Fun&care]

I will be ok for now but what I fear is the future. When I start losing some of the older kids, if I can't fill more than 2 spots I will for sure consider closing up and pursuing a different career as both mine will be in school by next sept.

My sister is in a small town where the daycare center recently closed, the night it gave notice to it's clients her DCP filled up her spots in one night. I think she cares for 7-8 kids total....where will these parents go when the bill passes?

I am very frustrated that we are not being heard despite tremendous effort. I am so so so disappointed in our government. I don't understand why we are not being included in the discussion. And they can't even do basic math!

My dc parents also seem to have a pretty "whatever" attitude. Not to sound vengeful lol, but in a few months after this bill has passed when they realize how bad things are I will say I told you so!

[jodaycare]

I am sad and angry! Although this bill will not affect me right away, I am sure in a year or two it will. Fortunately, my daughter is 21 and doesnt count in my numbers so I will hopefully continue with 5. I am planning on remaining unlicensed as it seems the only way the bill will allow licensing will be through an agency and I am not doing that. I am working hard to pay of my debts and my mortgage so hopefully by the time things get rough I can just retire.

[jodaycare]

Here is a media release from MPP Dunlop, Pc Education critic

Garfield's media release from today!
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
November 4, 2014

Bill 10 “Child Care Modernization Act” Disgraceful
MPP Dunlop upset time allocation motion not democratic


Queen’s Park – The Wynne Government has brought in a Time Allocation Motion ending 2nd reading debate after only six hours of Bill 10 the Child Care Modernization Act.

“This is a disgrace that impacts tens of thousands of Independent Daycare Providers across Ontario,” said Simcoe North MPP Garfield Dunlop.

The Time Allocation Bill intended to create a quick passage of Bill 10 means that there will be no opportunity for Bill 10 to be properly circulated for public input.

“As the PC Education Critic I have received hundreds of letters from Independent Childcare Providers and parents sharing their concerns around Bill 10. They want the chance to provide input before this Bill is passed.

“The Ontario Government’s plan to allow a few hours over a couple of days for the public to give input on Bill 10 at meetings in Toronto is not good enough. A committee needs to travel with this Bill right across the province,” explained Dunlop.

In the Ontario Legislature this morning Dunlop urged the government to consider travelling with Bill 10 over the winter months, then have third and final reading when they return in early February. He noted it would only mean a delay of seven or eight weeks.

“Bill 10 will affect over 300-thousand people. Parents and daycare operators should be outraged. It will mean a loss of 140 thousand daycare spaces. It needs to travel while it is in committee. I want to be sure that comprehensive consultation is done with the people this Bill is going to affect. Let’s get it right,” added Dunlop.

-30-

CONTACT: Jamie Hofing | 416-326-6457 | Jamie.Hofing@pc.ola. org

[cfred]

I've already heard Bright Sparks :( Needless to say, I had a bit of a cry last night...very upset that all that work was for nothing. Believe me, my MPPs receptionist is going to get blasted when Iget home. I even bought a phone package as she PROMISED she'd get in touch with me. I've been trying to get appt since JULY!!! I was online today with a connection I made at my rally to get some media attention. He's very interested in helping and wants to hold the video camera when I do an office ambush. I'm soooooo frickin' mad....this is not democracy....nothing more than autocracy. Disgusting! That DP wants to hear nothing from us or even to acknowledge our existence. I'm absolutely livid!

Ugh...but back to wine with my BFs mum while we wait for the boys to get back from sailing. At least I"m bitchy in bloody paradise ;)

[jodaycare]

New petition posted

http://www.change.org/p/kathleen-wynne-premier-of-ontario-conduct-widespread-public-consultation-on-bill-10-childcare-modernization-act-and-amend-to-make-provision-for-parents-to-freely-choose-the-early-learning-environments-that-are-best-for-their-families?recruiter=7 5290016&utm_campaign=twitter _link_action_box&utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=share_pet ition

[Crayola kiddies]

The liberals have a majority ..... This bill is going to pass and nobody has any say and the liberals want it passed as quickly as possible ..... I will not go with an agency and my youngest is 6 in aug I will continue on as I have been and there's the new income splitting now so if my income drops off significantly I'll take some of my hubby's and my child tax credit will go up as we will be making less as a family. Whatever !!!! But really the liberals have their heads up their ass and can't see the problem this is going to create all they see is the votes from people with rose colored glasses on thinking this is going to keep their kids safe .... Well the providers running over limit and therefore illegally are not going to all of a sudden decide to tow the line ....

[bright sparks]

I have no doubt this bill is going to pass. As Crayola kiddies said it's a majority government and so far they have made no effort to even answer questions presented to them by opposition let alone be open to entertaining the idea of making changes. My concern now is planning for the changes and being prepared. How are they going to deal with the masses of under two's in care that will suddenly put a provider over ratio? We have contracts generally stating a 2 to 4 week notice period for starters and then what do they plan to do with the immediate need of under 2 care? Are those kids going to be grandfathered in? Which seems a ridiculous notion because if their safety requires this bill to be passed so quickly then, how can it be okay in the next breath to allow kids already placed to stay in their spots making a provider over ratio??? Seems like these details have been greatly overlooked and I haven't heard any plan to handle this immediate aftermath of passing the bill as is. Anyone know anything I don't know??

[Crayola kiddies]

bright sparks ...the government is just assuming all the providers are going to sign up with an agency ...this is where they are getting the added 6000 spaces....so the liberals with the rose colored glasses don't see a back lash or a fall out or a problem at all ,,,they just don't....they really cant grandfather anything in as far as I can tell cause then the new law will hold no water and if another child is harmed or dies while being grandfathered in the current daycare then the liberals will come under fire ....and then they will have providers lying and putting incorrect dates on contracts just to say they were there (or at least signed up)prior to the bill ..SWIM....the liberals think this is wonderful ......there can be petitions signed there can be protests there can be letters but none of it will make any difference because the stupid NDP's called a election which gave the liberals a majority ....I really think they were in cahoots together!

[bright sparks]

Well I for one hope it doesn't pass to quickly as I have 3 under 2 currently but two of them turn 2 in February. I will be royally pissed off if I have to give them notice for the sake of 4 weeks. That's a joke. Additionally, how does insurance work with Ontario providers registered with an agency currently? Is the insurance provided through the agency because to my knowledge there aren't any insurance companies providing insurance for 6 daycare kids, there are barely any offering 5 kids. This is what happens when policy is put in place by people without first hand knowledge and experience of the industry.

I personally think that petitions and rallies do have the potential to have impact, but in a case like this when the vast majority of providers have stayed silent, there isn't a united front delivered to the house. Had there been a greater number more indicative of the majority of the providers in the industry I believe it could have had a greater impact. It is a shame that those who are in the minority have worked their asses off to not be fully supported and for it then to not have a great impact on any type of change. Had everyone come together in our industry then things could have turned out very different and I think we may have been taken more seriously and someone may have been forced to respond. A small percentage of our industry is easy to ignore, the masses not so much.

[sandylynn]

what EXACTLY will the new bill 10 say

[bright sparks]

what EXACTLY will the new bill 10 say

Check out this website for a complete run down of the bill.

http://www.cicpo.ca

[sandylynn]

Ministry of Education inspectors can walk into your home and inspect without a WARRANT!

[cfred]

I don't think so....if you're with an agency, yes, they can. If you're still private, I'm pretty sure they need a warrant. Don't quote me on it, but that was my understanding. This was one of the reasons I thought this bill was a bit of a head scratcher...it doesn't seem to really do much of anything to private so far as enforcement goes. People just won't take their kids out. It's still complaint driven, so not really amounting to much more security anyway. Stupid liberals.....absolut ely useless!

[sandylynn]

If this bill passes...any idea what the effective date will be

[sandylynn]

Getting caught with more than 5 or more than 2 under 2...$100,000 fine!

[Fun&care]

It should be entertaining to say the least when/if the bill passes though. I am going to sit back and watch the shit hit the fans. Maybe then, when a whole lot of people get dumped out of daycare and the price for under 2 soars, maybe THEN parents will pull their heads out of their asses and realize hey, liberals are pretty stupid after all. Maybe providers should have been included in the discussion!?!? I honestly think there will be an uproar when this bill passes.

[sandylynn]

Won't change the bill though

[bright sparks]

Won't change the bill though

You're right, it won't. To little to late. People should have put as much effort into complaining about it 6 months ago into putting that into action. Lots of people have, but majority haven't and a lot of parents seem to be unbelievably dismissive of this even being something worth worrying about. I'm grateful for those who have at least tried to fight this but ultimately I feel that we don't stand a chance if people don't follow up talk with action. I know for sure a number of people who will have no time and zero tolerance for those who complain about the bill once it's passed but did nothing to at least "try" to affect change to the bill. I myself am feeling defeated and think that some of the action taken was good while others could have been executed much better but I wrote letters, attended day of action and can say I tried my personal best to be involved and represent my industry. It may have been for nothing, almost certainly, but I think for myself it was better to have tried and failed than not at all. For goodness sakes I am leaving the industry in less than a year for school. If for no other reason than child safety I felt it my duty as a provider of 9 years and a mother of two to speak up for the fact that this bill does nothing to make children safer. That's my biggest pet peeve. It's just a for profit bill of BS in my opinion but I do believe strongly having worked in this capacity in another countries home daycare setting that there should be licensing, there should be ratios and there should be mandatory training, upgrading and regular consistent inspections for all. That is how we ensure children's safety not with this stack of liberal toilet paper they dare to call a bill.

Rant over ladies haha

[Fun&care]

Won't change the bill though

I disagree. If the effects of this bill are as bad as many have predicted, the government will be forced to backpedal or make changes or do SOMETHING. We don't have to bend over and take whatever the gov gives us. When/if a daycare shortage occurs in Ontario and parents can no longer participate in the workforce something will have to be done.

I just don't think parents realize YET the impacts this will have. They will when it does.

[sandylynn]

Absolutely....becaus e when this bill does take effect....the one child I am over is "by by"....with no notice! she can stay til then...I have talked with her about it when I took her little one on....so no need to give notice...I told her it would be IMMEDIATELY! SHE WAS THE LAST IN....SO FIRST OUT

[bright sparks]

I disagree. If the effects of this bill are as bad as many have predicted, the government will be forced to backpedal or make changes or do SOMETHING. We don't have to bend over and take whatever the gov gives us. When/if a daycare shortage occurs in Ontario and parents can no longer participate in the workforce something will have to be done.

I just don't think parents realize YET the impacts this will have. They will when it does.

It's pretty obvious how this will effect the home daycare providers but I am in constant awe at how parents don't seem to realize that it screws them over the most. They will lose their jobs because of the lack of daycare spots for under 2's leaving all sorts of industries effected. Some providers have said they were considering having another child but are now reconsidering, it's on mass for the parents who consider growing their brood and then how about all those parents who don't even know the law, don't research and go ahead and have more babies to suddenly realize they can not return to work although, that mortgage still has to be paid....oh the potential ramifications are endless.

The bill will just result in a childcare crisis that's for sure.

[bright sparks]

If this passes by Xmas I will likely suggest that my two who would turn two in 4 weeks after that time go to grandmas until their birthday. I know they have some flexibility short term. Hopefully that will solve the issue for me. I can't lose 1500 a month income just like that without notice. This will cripple a lot of providers who rely on this income.

[Fun&care]

If this passes by Xmas I will likely suggest that my two who would turn two in 4 weeks after that time go to grandmas until their birthday. I know they have some flexibility short term. Hopefully that will solve the issue for me. I can't lose 1500 a month income just like that without notice. This will cripple a lot of providers who rely on this income.

That sounds like a good plan. I'm sure they will go for it otherwise they risk not being able to find a spot anywhere else anyways.

[Samantha33]

I have a question maybe some of the girls from Ottawa can answer for me. I will remain unlicensed. Can you tell me "approximately" how much you will raise your rates, if anything.

[torontokids]

If this passes at Christmas, I will be over ratio for 2 wks until my one child turns 2. I like the suggestion of having them stay with family for the short term...not good for me financially though.

[momofnerds]

Actually this bill won't effect me that much. My kids are older (they actually a babysitters for the daycare kids on weekends) and I never ever do 2 kids under the age of two. I think it's way too much to have so many kids under the age of 2. What I don't agree is that we are all being lumped together. Where I live the most you can charge is 35 dollars and good luck getting that. How can I get more when our community is not like Toronto. And I feel like those that live outside the Toronto area are being punished for the mistakes of some stupid stupid daycare providers. Why should we all suffer. And really this bill isn't going to stop people. On my buy and sell site, there is a lady advertising for daycare and she has 7 children in all her pics (she's older these are not her kid) I have reported her and she doesn't care.

[momofnerds]

I'm not blaming all Toronto providers it's just that a lot of illegal ness seems to happen there, hence all the news.

[bright sparks]

Actually this bill won't effect me that much. My kids are older (they actually a babysitters for the daycare kids on weekends) and I never ever do 2 kids under the age of two. I think it's way too much to have so many kids under the age of 2. What I don't agree is that we are all being lumped together. Where I live the most you can charge is 35 dollars and good luck getting that. How can I get more when our community is not like Toronto. And I feel like those that live outside the Toronto area are being punished for the mistakes of some stupid stupid daycare providers. Why should we all suffer. And really this bill isn't going to stop people. On my buy and sell site, there is a lady advertising for daycare and she has 7 children in all her pics (she's older these are not her kid) I have reported her and she doesn't care.

My kids are older too and also babysit my current and past daycare kids too...make more money than me lol

Unfortunately depending on the area, some providers, in fact a lot of providers, do not have the luxury to opt to only care for 1 child under two because since full day kindergarten I have heard lots of providers say that the amount of enquiries for kids over 2 years has dropped dramatically. Obviously I know each individual decides what is within their comfort zone, or really just their preference, but I haven't had an enquiry for a child over 2 in more than 2 years, not a single one. So if I wasn't open to multiple under twos then I wouldn't make any money. Multiple under 2's is busy but I prefer to have them all at the same stage developmentally wise so within a few months of each other at the most. Makes programming much easier, although I've learnt over the years to make it work without to much trouble if I have a vast variance in ages, but also I like to get them all young because they are more likely to stay with me longer generally speaking and I can " train" them before those bad habits are instilled in them. I currently have a 3 1/2 yr old who was a families 2nd child. I had his sister for 3 years and she is in sk now and he came to me at 8 months. I've taken as young as 3 months. I had all my kids except him leave for school at the same time which for me was the only major downside but it's not like I couldn't plan for it. Biggest issue in my neighbourhood for filling those spots were the sudden influx of stay at home mums charging a good $15-$20 less per day, which no matter how good a program may be is hard to compete with. As for raising rates, once the bill is in place, demand for under two spots will shoot through the roof so then the rate will go up everywhere. It's nothing to do with Toronto and other major urban centres, it's simply supply and demand. When there is a mass shortage there will be a premium to pay, not because providers are abusing the parents situation, but because we will need to raise rates to make ends meet with the new ratio restrictions.

[bright sparks]

I'm not blaming all Toronto providers it's just that a lot of illegal ness seems to happen there, hence all the news.

I think illegal practices happen as much all over the place, we just don't know about it. Toronto has simply been highlighted due to the fatalities that have been reported in the media.

[Fun&care]

So far I myself have thought out two different scenarios regarding rates but haven't decided which road I will take. It will depend on what other providers are doing too.

1) raise rates by 5-10$ for kids under 2 currently enrolled immediately after the bill passes so that I can save up and prepare for the inevitable time when I will only have the income of 2 daycare kids to support my family

2) keep rates the same after the bill passes but charge 5-10-15$ more per day for new infant spaces and keep over 2 spaces at 40$...or maybe 45$?

I am leaning more towards the second option but heck if I am getting calls out the heiny for under 2 spaces immediately after the bill passes....it would be VERY tempting to raise rates. At this point part of me just doesn't care...parents and ppl on FB or anyone I talked to did not give a rats ass about this bill...it will be hard for ME to give a rats ass for charging more!

[Samantha33]

With rates going up for legal daycare, illegal daycare will pop up a dime a dozen. I feel in my city legal daycare will still have a hard time filling spots because of this. I would never even get close to $5 more per day for a child under 2.

[Teagansmom]

I was given 2 weeks notice for 3 siblings I have in care. A set of twins who are 11 months and a 3 year old. Parents wanted me to hold the spit for 3 months while a family member from the Philippines took care of them. No way was I about to do that, any how's hey know about the bill and I told them have fun finding care in a few months if this bill passes. So I have 3 spots to fill and I'm raising my rates for under 2 by $5 and $1 for over 2. Perhaps will even raise my rates higher if I have a hard time filling my spits or I will be forced to close.

[Samantha33]

So once the child reaches 2, will you girls reduce your rates.

[5 Little Monkeys]

I have hopes of my province (MB) relaxing the numbers rule a bit but with this happening, I doubt it will ever happen now :(

The sudden loss of income over Christmas is tough though! I feel for you all that will be affected by this new law.

[Dreamalittledream]

With rates going up for legal daycare, illegal daycare will pop up a dime a dozen. I feel in my city legal daycare will still have a hard time filling spots because of this. I would never even get close to $5 more per day for a child under 2.
My thoughts EXACTLY Samantha:)

[sandylynn]

With lack of spots available for under 2 if this bill passes....I don't see a problem getting the extra 5.00 a day for an under 2 spot Samantha! I feel bad for the part timers I have because part time will no longer exist...either 5 days or by by.....

[sandylynn]

Fun&care.....Where does your sister live that she can have 7 or 8 kids?

[jodaycare]

About 40 of us attended a meeting with MPP Lisa Macleod this evening, she was amazing and gave us a lot of inspiration especially after a trying day in the legislature.

[torontokids]

what came of your meeting?

[jodaycare]

Lisa explained the committee process, and encouraged us to continue to network with other providers, contacting our local MPPS and to email/call the premier's office, the house leaders office and liz sandals office in Guelph. She will be attending the Rally in Guelph on Sunday along with Garfield Dunlop. We have 91 people coming so far. She told us not to give up! It is likely that her and Mr Dunlop will be involved with the committee hearings so that is a good thing.

She expects Bill 10 to be passed by Dec 11th. What can we do to try to get the Bill amended?

1) Network - spread the word and decide what the top things to amend are
2) Contact you MPP by phone and email. Contact Y Naqvi , Wynne at don valley office, and Liz Sandals at her Guelph office.
Y Naqvi ynaqvi .mpp.co@liberal.ola. org
L Sandals lsandals.mpp.co@libe ral.ola.org
K Wynne premier@ontario.ca

3)Write a letter to the clerk for the committee to be part of the deputents - by letter, video conference or in person (Nov 17th and 18th) vquioc@ola.org

4) Email the committee tabunsp-qp@ndp.on.ca fgelinas-qp@ndp.on.ca ganderson.mpp.co@lib eral.ola.org vdhillon.mpp.co@libe ral.ola.org christine.elliott@pc .ola.org mflalonde.mpp.co@lib eral.ola.org amangat.mpp.co@liber al.ola.org gila.martow@pc.ola.o rg kmcgarry.mpp.co@libe ral.ola.org

Also CICPO is putting out a press release today to pretty much every major news outlet.

[Fun&care]

Fun&care.....Where does your sister live that she can have 7 or 8 kids?

She has five plus her own.

[Samantha33]

Other than coming right out and asking my parents, is there any other way I can tell if they have signed the petition?

[cfred]

I have to ask this.....

For months, my counterparts from other cities and myself have been absolutely killing ourselves fighting this bill. Many of us, myself included, spent hundreds of dollars funding our rallies. I took time off from work to attend a press conference. We've all been printing letters, emailing constantly and tried tirelessly to deal with the rampant apathy of the independent childcare industry. I personally phoned and emailed about 80 providers looking for support for this cause....nada. The last 3 days before my vacation were spent printing 150 emails, entering names and phone numbers from petitions, emailing politicians who attended my rally, etc, etc, etc. I worked until the very last second before I boarded the plane and have continued to email and make phone calls from Curacao. I've lost sleep, weight and have stressed about this endlessly....my boyfriend who has helped me more than any of the local providers in my town can attest to that....or my sister and parents who helped with the rally....this list goes on. But to have only ONE provider attend is, I'm sorry....dismal.

What I want to know is this......for months when I contacted providers and when I posted messages in here about rallies, progress or, frankly, anything about this issue....where was everyone? I was met with resounding silence and non commitment. Now when something adverse to our industry has actually happened, everyone comes out of the woodwork to discuss this? I really don't understand. For those who helped and gave it their all, thank you from the bottom of my heart. For those who couldn't have been bothered until now......either roll up your sleeves with the rest of us who are driving ourselves crazy to deal with this, help out, or just keep your complaints to yourselves. My patience is at an end with this nonsense. We've been fighting for all of us....you included.

[Teagansmom]

I have to ask this.....

For months, my counterparts from other cities and myself have been absolutely killing ourselves fighting this bill. Many of us, myself included, spent hundreds of dollars funding our rallies. I took time off from work to attend a press conference. We've all been printing letters, emailing constantly and tried tirelessly to deal with the rampant apathy of the independent childcare industry. I personally phoned and emailed about 80 providers looking for support for this cause....nada. The last 3 days before my vacation were spent printing 150 emails, entering names and phone numbers from petitions, emailing politicians who attended my rally, etc, etc, etc. I worked until the very last second before I boarded the plane and have continued to email and make phone calls from Curacao. I've lost sleep, weight and have stressed about this endlessly....my boyfriend who has helped me more than any of the local providers in my town can attest to that....or my sister and parents who helped with the rally....this list goes on. But to have only ONE provider attend is, I'm sorry....dismal.

What I want to know is this......for months when I contacted providers and when I posted messages in here about rallies, progress or, frankly, anything about this issue....where was everyone? I was met with resounding silence and non commitment. Now when something adverse to our industry has actually happened, everyone comes out of the woodwork to discuss this? I really don't understand. For those who helped and gave it their all, thank you from the bottom of my heart. For those who couldn't have been bothered until now......either roll up your sleeves with the rest of us who are driving ourselves crazy to deal with this, help out, or just keep your complaints to yourselves. My patience is at an end with this nonsense. We've been fighting for all of us....you included.

I couldn't agree with you more cfred, I thanks you and all the team leads as well as Veronica, Heidi and Kim for all you have done. I did what I could, wanted to be able to do more in regards to organizing a weekday rally at queens park and nobody was up for it. So frustrating!!! Just know you are thanked by many

[Samantha33]

cfred, I understand your concerns. I know your very upset. In the defence of many who didn't help out, I'd like to say, not everyone has hundreds or even one hundred dollars at their disposal, not everyone has the time; due to family issues, not everyone can afford to take a day off for a Rally let alone a sick day, not everyone has the time to keep watch on this or any other site for updates. I do feel that their are girls keeping abreast of the situation even though they can't help. I don't think it's fair to link us all in one lump. Everyone has different circumstances in their lives. It doesn't mean we don't care or aren't concerned, it means some of us don't have the luxuries others do. I say this and yet I still understand how you can be upset.

[CrazyEight]

"luxuries others do"?? Really? People couldn't sign a petition? Couldn't take an hour out of their Sunday afternoon to come to an event organized for you and hold up a sign??

It is not about having the time, it is about not putting in the effort and the care because you assume someone else will. Now that suddenly the reality is hitting, all of our groups have seen providers appear out of the woodwork. Providers that we tried to reach for MONTHS, just to get a signature on a petition, a body to count in the calculations that were read during debates. Not everyone needs to organize a rally, all people needed to do was SHOW UP.

I've spent the last week hand-holding provider after provider explaining the Bill, explaining how it will affect them, taking yet more time out of my day and away from my family, because they couldn't be bothered to take 20 minutes one evening and read through the Bill and educate themselves. It's not a big commitment.

And yet I keep on doing it, because if I don't, maybe no one else will, and then somebody who doesn't know what they're talking about will somehow get themselves in front of the media that we have spent MONTHS lobbying, and that person will talk about a Bill they don't understand and make all of us look like idiots.

Cfred took the words right out of my mouth. I am doing all of this so that when this Bill inevitably gets passed, and my income literally goes below the poverty line, I can still know that I did everything I could to stand up for my business, my family and my clients. I'm not sure that many will be able to say the same.

Sorry, it had to be said.

[jodaycare]

I have also tried to contact providers in my area and have received no response at all from them. I am not rich my any means nor do I drive but I managed to donate a small amount to the rally fund and CICPO itself. I also found a way to get to Oakville for the day of action, as well as to the meeting with MPP Macleod the other night. I will also be in Guelph on sunday. I have written countless emails, shared info on Facebook and here. I will not be able to get to Queens park for the hearings but you can bet I will be sending a written submission and I have asked my parents to do the same. I understand that life is busy, especially if you have young children of your own, fortunately mine is 21 so she is independent. But it only takes a few minutes to write down a few meaningful points about how the bill will impact you and send it off to the commitee. This Bill will impact everyone, providers and parents alike. I am scared too for the future of my chosen profession but if we don't keep fighting for what we believe in, nothing will change and even if we don't succeed at least we can say we fought with everything we had. Just my 2 cents.

[cfred]

LOL!!! Luxuries??? Wow......no, sorry...I don't particularly have the luxury of extra time or money. I'm a single mother with a modest business and a very tight schedule. I MADE the time to do all this and borrowed money from other things. In other words, I made a commitment to do everything I could to save this industry. Had we all chipped in, perhaps things might have been easier for everyone. And really, I've done nothing in comparison to those three women in Ottawa. My god they're fantastic! We all owe them tremendously. The point is that it's inconvenient for anyone to participate in something like this. But really, it's very simple....if you want to save your profession, and you're serious in that endeavor, inconvenience is a necessity. One has to commit to striving for change to actually achieve it. As I read recently, 'doing nothing is a great way to achieve nothing'. We all have stresses and I think my life is as busy as anyone's. BUT, I care about this industry and, like others who have contributed, I saw no sense in watching it happen. No one asked any providers to contribute money. As a team lead, I took the initiative to do that on my own, and I don't hold anyone else accountable to that. BUT, as I spent several days bent over poster board making signs, or running from one politician to the next at the rally trying to educate all of them as my sister worked on bringing more people in, I was absolutely resentful of providers.....provid ers who COULD have taken 2 hours out of a Sunday morning to assist or at the very least, be a warm body to show support. I watched people agonize for 4 pages in here over what snack to serve, but when it came to something as important as this bill, nothing. So please don't tell me people don't have time to follow it on the computer. This forum would indicate otherwise.

I'm not here looking for thanks. I offered my contributions as I wished to and no one asked me to do so. I wouldn't change a thing. I suspect though, that as this bill comes to fruition, not all of you can say the same. For those who helped, thank you. It is appreciated more than you can know. The show of support from those who took initiative to do what they could was tremendous and I value the new comradery among my peers as we've united to take on this task. As I said, for those who didn't wish to help, that's fine....your prerogative. But don't complain about the repercussions when it affects your livelihood.

[Wonderwiper]

Ahh Cfred....we've talked about this before. Soooo much easier to hide and whine.

Everyone is busy. Not everyone needs to lead a rally or meet with politicians.

No one is too busy to send out emails/letters, put flyers on mailboxes while walking to the park etc, donate $5 on gofundme etc. Getting the word out is just as important as organizing rallies and can be done while resting on ones laurels. Every little bit helps.

[Polkaroo]

Some of these messages contradict themselves. "Do what you can" but yet make people feel bad for not doing enough. Some have done their best. Just because they don't advertise what they've done, remember that doesn't mean they haven't done anything. Maybe not enough in some views, but everyone does what they can in the circumstances and life challenges they are currently living. Pointing fingers will not help anything. Frustration and feeling are owned by you, venting is important but getting angry at those in this profession that haven't done what you wish they had is a waste of energy. Just my opinion. I have done what I could, reality is, we are still faced with this reality. We must stick together, not do...this. good luck to everyone with their plan moving forward. One thing I've learned this year is no matter what, things will be ok. Stay positive and do your best and have faith. I will continue what I've been doing and hope for all of us something will come out of it.

[Wonderwiper]

Some of these messages contradict themselves. "Do what you can" but yet make people feel bad for not doing enough. Some have done their best. Just because they don't advertise what they've done, remember that doesn't mean they haven't done anything. Maybe not enough in some views, but everyone does what they can in the circumstances and life challenges they are currently living. Pointing fingers will not help anything. Frustration and feeling are owned by you, venting is important but getting angry at those in this profession that haven't done what you wish they had is a waste of energy. Just my opinion. I have done what I could, reality is, we are still faced with this reality. We must stick together, not do...this. good luck to everyone with their plan moving forward. One thing I've learned this year is no matter what, things will be ok. Stay positive and do your best and have faith. I will continue what I've been doing and hope for all of us something will come out of it.


I didn't read anyone saying people didn't do enough. Comments were made about being too busy to do ANYTHING. Sending a single email is helping.

[CrazyEight]

Second Wonderwiper's point. On my (small) city's page alone, I have had over 10 new providers join in the last 3 days. Not one of them has lifted a finger until now, despite my exhausting attempts to just get them to sign a petition or send an email - even one that was already written for them. Not only that, but they haven't bothered even paying attention. They have no idea what this Bill means or how it will affect them. These are the providers I have no patience for. Ones that couldn't be bothered to do a single thing and are now crying about the Bill. We would have appreciated the crying 3 months ago, so our petitions and letters and rallies and meetings with MPPs could have been that much stronger. We ALL have personal circumstances to deal with - but isn't this worth inconveniencing yourself a little bit? This is my career, my livelihood, my mortgage, my kids' lives. It was worth putting other things on the back burner months ago, and it's still worth it now. It's hard to feel sympathy for and spend hours explaining things for people who obviously didn't feel the same.

[cfred]

That's exactly my point Polkaroo. No one is upset that some people didn't do enough. If you contributed, that's flippin' awesome...and I mean it! There are 70,000 providers in Ontario. I do not believe for one second that even a 10th of those providers stepped up to the plate in any way. I ran into many who did absolutely nothing.....nothing. .....considering what's at stake, that's a dangerous position to maintain. My goodness.....I even ran into a provider at my rally who'd not even HEARD of bill 10! NO ONE is looking for a pat on the back here. But forgive us if we become a bit annoyed by those who couldn't participate at all by way of petitions, letters, educating parents/themselves, attending a weekend rally.....or anything.....if it was important enough to be upset about now and could cause detriment to one's livelihood, surely it's worth a bit of effort. My message is to those who did nothing.....there is no excuse for doing absolutely zippo, then whining and complaining about the aftermath. My hope is that people might take it a bit more seriously now and everyone pitch in a little so that we can be a stronger force. Can you imagine if 70,000 providers joined together and worked on this? Wow.....it could be incredible.....but we keep hearing "I'm too busy"...or in my case, crickets.

[Fun&care]

Because our livelihoods are at stake I understand the heat of the conversation. That being said...let's slow down a minute. I don't think tearing each other down for not doing enough is going to accomplish anything, at all. If you spent time and money for this cause then good for YOU. What everyone else does with their time and how much effort they are willing to put into this is absolutely none of your business.

Some of us don't run at full capacity at all times so we don't feel as threatened and add to the fact that many of us are just doing this until our kids are in school and it's no wonder ppl aren't doing more. This job is a stepping stone for many.

I for one have written letters of my own and signed petitions too and informed my clients. Nobody gives a shit about this bill. I might get 1-2 likes on FB when I share articles or info. My clients almost never follow up with me when I send them emails about the bill unless I bring it up.

Last but not least...ever consider that some providers might not be showing more support because they actually do not agree with CCPRN or CICPO's recommendations? I actually think providers own kids under six SHOULD count. I risk getting stoned for saying that, but it had to be said.

[torontokids]

Oh, man...I just spent 20 mins composing a response and it has been lost in the land of wherever that stuff goes. I am too lazy to rewrite it all.

I agree we should all care a little more. I also agree we should all do a little more. That being said for some of the reasons mentioned above, there are definitely barriers to getting people involved. E.g we are made up of SAHM, new immigrants and people who work under the table (If they're included in that 70 000). The sub group that is left is the group that needs to step up becuas they have the most at stake. I find people either 1) fight or 2) figure out how they'll manage once this bill comes to fruition and see it as inevitable. I have definitely been part of the second group because this job is short term for me. I have written my letters and signed petitions but I know I can and should do more. I think part of what CFred is saying is that people also need to own up to the fact that they are doing nothing.

[Lee-Bee]

I can only imagine how incredibly frustrating it is for those that have put so much time, energy, effort into fighting this bill. For many this is indeed your livelihood, your passion, your career, your life.

It is important to remember, for your sake so you don't get hopeless or defeated that this field is, as mentioned above, largely made up of SAHM, immigrants and just random people that thought it an easy job. So, while you have this 70,000 member number in your head it really isn't feasible to expect them to be fighting like you as a large number of them don't care because it doesn't impact them like it impacts you. Some really have no clue, and don't care to have a clue. Some will just continue as is not caring about the laws (if they didn't before this bill why would they after).

So...keep all that in mind...know that for those that have put up a great fight you are recognized for it. Not by all, but by those that actually care.

I've done what I can on my own end (and it pales in comparison to many). I don't agree with the Bill 10 but I also don't agree with how things are status quo. The are clearly missing the mark here they get that changes need to be made but they haven't a clue where or how to improve things. AND to complicate matters the ones that NEED these laws and limits put on them are the ones that are not fighting this bill...because they don't know about it, don't care about it and won't be bothered by it. Which is exactly why they need to make other, more important changes to improve childcare.

Don't let silence and inaction defeat you. For some, like me...my silence about what I have done goes unspoken because it pales in comparison to a few on here that are working so hard. I think many others on here are keeping tabs on what you post, are well aware and greatful for what you ladies do...they just aren't commenting on the little things they are doing to make a difference. The ones that don't care aren't on here listening to you...because it takes a lot of effort to log onto a daycare chat board on a daily basis to remain informed (not only about the bill but all aspects of daycare). So, they just aren't here to be impacted by your strong front on this manner.

[33 Daiseys]

I know that I couldn't be at the rally in to, becuse im here in ottawa. It may not be seen as much, but we made flyers, by the undreds, put a sign on the stroller, and every day on the bus, at story time, at play group, s***, even when changing the kids bums at the mall, I've talked about bill 10 and the effects it will cause. Every single time I mention this to other daycare providers I get the same crappy Well it wont bother me, I'm not gonna change my numbers. I finally told one daycare provider yesterday at the park" If this bill passes, and you still have you 5 one year olds I will report you myself." Bitch move I know, but this was the same person, who said she wouldn't rally because it was to much work. Like come on for the love of godness sakes