Judgement in trial

[Teagansmom]

Lhhliblhbiibliublu

[torontokids]

That is horrible! I am so sorry this happened to you. Do you have an recourse or can you appeal it in any way?

[5 Little Monkeys]

OMG....

This actually makes me angry!!! Of course we can't always be 100% sure that real abuse and neglect is happening. That is what CFS is for!!!! They get calls from concerned citizens and it is THEIR job to investigate!

This judge is an idiot and now will be increasing the risk for abused children to go unnoticed by the system because concerned people like you will now be terrified to report it. Sooo sad!!

[Discoveries]

I'm so sorry and baffled that this was the outcome. We are mandated reporters are we not? I really feel this should be taken to the media.

[torontokids]

I really don't understand this at all. I have worked with CAS intimately and have made many reports (when I worked as a social worker) this is disgusting. There are supposed to be no repercussions as long as there was no malice. You can even make the calls anonymously which they can't exactly follow up when the report is malicious anyways.

[jodaycare]

Oh no! I am so sorry to hear that! How unfair, and yes we are mandated reporters. I would definitely be appealing it!

[superfun]

I absolutely can't believe that! That's just nuts! I hope you can appeal that!

[cfred]

There is nothing I can say that will make you feel any better. I'm shocked at the outcome...genuinely. I'm so very sorry this has happened to you.

[bright sparks]

This is absolutely heartbreaking news, I am so choked up about this. The whole ordeal was bad enough given that you were only looking out for the best interests of the child but this kind of verdict really does have me losing faith in our social and justice system WTF!?! Really, anyone can see this was family retaliating because you took action against them breaking their contract. I hope you are able to get some kind of support and I think given all the spot lights on childcare right now, a call to a national newspaper would be a good move to bring to light how us as independent daycare providers are forever left out to the dogs, with little resources and/or help in providing the best possible care. It is our duty to report and our hope that we are wrong. This really is stacking the odds of an increase in neglect and abuse going unreported if these are the potential outcomes. Without malice how can this be the verdict. I am so so sorry for this BS. How can people sleep at night. Sending you lots of hugs and positive energy for the road ahead.

[Teagansmom]

Libhjlbilhblhbljhbjh b

[superfun]

What about online fundraising like go fund me? I don't know much about these things, but maybe enough of us could give a little bit to help you hire a lawyer?

[5 Little Monkeys]

I just feel horrible for you teagansmom!! You are being put in a very unfair situation. You should not be punished for reporting something that you were honestly worried about and made without malice. I am just so shocked that the judge ruled that!!

There are many many people who report to CFS (in MB it's Child and Family Services) daily and they are not sued. It is not up to the public to determine if abuse is happening and the judge should know that!! It is up to the public to watch out for children who may be possibly abused and report it and than CFS needs to investigate.

Know that you did the right thing!!! I am so sorry you are being punished for it though!! That judge needs to be fired!

[torontokids]

They actually teach you in school that it is not your job to find out if the abuse is happening but to make the call as this is the CAS's job

[5 Little Monkeys]

I'm having a brain fart and it's totally off topic but what does the A stand for in CAS?

[babydom]

Children's Aid Society

[5 Little Monkeys]

Thank you!! I would have never guessed that lol

[cfred]

I would absolutely be contacting the media with this. I've never in my life heard of something like this. Unbelievable! As childcare providers we are legally bound to report concerns to CAS!!! I know you're not ECE, but I would assume that goes for anyone in a position of trust with children. Wow.....what an absolutely shitty family. I'm really, really sorry.

[Suzie_Homemaker]

Miss Teagansmom ; Why does you day care insurance not pay for this monies?

[Teagansmom]

Hbouhbkbhkjhbkbh

[Teagansmom]

Ohbhilluibiluh

[cfred]

I'm sure she didn't mean it as a jab....no one in here is that mean. I'm sure she's probably genuine in her question.

[FSD]

I agree...I didn't read it as a jab either. So sorry that this is happening to you! It's just disgusting what the judge said.....

[Teagansmom]

Ubukhbukhbkhbkihbkiu

[superfun]

That's good news!

[FSD]

This sounds promising! Please keep us in the loop and GOOD LUCK!

[bright sparks]

aifoiwenfiurebgvnkjs dncks

[torontokids]

I am so glad to hear this. That being said, is this not something CICPO could help support Tegan's mom with CFred? I know they came to be because of Bill10 but they are the best thing we have to a college/union to support us.

Which CAS is it Tegan's mom? We should all send an email to them letting them know our concerns about the outcome and how this makes us weary to report suspected abuse in the future. Might push them to help you more.

[cfred]

I'm glad to hear that CAS is not just sitting on the sidelines. In my mind, that sounds quite promising. I was under the impression that, in a position of authority and trust working with young children, that the onus is on us to report and that we're liable for failing to do so. I'm utterly shocked.

I can bring it up with the folks at CICPO. I don't think we'd be able to do much in the way of helping with the situation specifically, but will certainly ask. It could perhaps be spun to show the inherent risks of a vastly undervalued profession. I will bring it up. Teagansmom....are you ok with me passing your story on to the group?

[SillyGirl_C]

I am absolutely horrified. Unless they proved malicious intent without doubt they CANNOT penalize you for reporting to CAS. That defeats the whole system. This is not right and not fair. And I am so pissed that you are suffering on this. The trial was bad enough...but to LOSE?
I agree with the above. Get CAS to help in writing. And GO TO THE MEDIA with CAS support. I imagine most parents and caregivers would be as outraged as this forum is.
ps: I think the question about insurance was a good one not designed to hurt you. I think she was most likely concerned about her protection in cases like this.

[Teagansmom]

Khukhbkjhblhbjkhbhjk b

[Teagansmom]

Ihlbilhbhlnijnliuh

[Gloucestermom]

I'm shocked and sorry to hear this! I really hope you can appeal and the CAS will help you

[flowerchild]

I haven't been on these boards long, so I don't know the specifics of your situation, but I do know this:

It's not up to the person who is concerned about abuse/neglect to determine if there is in fact abuse/neglect. That's CAS's job. ANY Children's Aid Society will tell you that. If you have concerns, you call and THEY investigate.

Also, EVERYONE is a mandated reporter. If you see or are aware of abuse/neglect happening, you are obligated to report to CAS. It's not just doctors/teachers/people in power. There may be negative consequences in certain professions for not reporting, but everyone has an obligation to report.

I'm sorry this is happening to you.

Honestly, I think this needs to be picked up by the media. The potential long-range consequences to a having a precedent set that would allow concerned people to be punished for calling about a legitimate concern is so dangerous. Think about all the children who could be harmed or even worse because people are afraid to report.

[Teagansmom]

Buhobjhbihobikbhhkib

[adaycarelady]

This makes me scared to report any suspected abuse for sure! If you can't get a lawyer yet, can you represent yourself? In your appeal, ask the judge to provide you with reference as to where the information is stating you need to be certified to report any suspected abuse. When you sue the family, sue for lost income because of the closure due to emotional distress. It would be very hard to work after you were fined for just doing your job. Maybe you could just take a break for a while and reopen (just would hate to have you loose your house)? Then if you're just done with daycare for sure, make long term career changes. There are wonderful families out there. It's too bad families like this have to ruin it.

[bright sparks]

gvdasghjkhfgdsdfghjk lrytre

[adaycarelady]

They say it's against the law if we don't report suspected abuse, but then get fined if we do! I think you got a case here! I think we all need to call the court house asking how us childcare providers need to be 'certified' in reporting child abuse. Are we suppose to let abuse occur cuz we are only childcare providers? I have a degree in education/teachers certificate and I never have taken a course on child abuse so how are teachers 'certified' too? The media should do a story about how childcare providers are not allowed to report suspect abuse since they run a risk of being sued because they are only childcare providers. I think this is something all Canadian daycare providers need to know so we don't get sued. It doesn't matter whether a person is unlicenced or licenced, we are still providing a service for children. Spread the word on social media news sites too. Start a facebook page! I'm really mad about this, sorry if I'm rambling.

[Teagansmom]

Lbjohboibbhilubilu

[adaycarelady]

If you are concerned about a child being abused/neglected, it is reasonable grounds to contact the CAS. What if this child died due to abuse/neglect, you'd then be sued for not reporting your concerns! This judge is not making sense, he says your 'certified' to report your concerns to the family and/or doctor but not certified enough to report your concerns to the CAS?? You're either certified or not. I'd start a facebook page asap saying Toronto judge claims people must be certified to report child abuse. Then pressure will be on him when we all ask why daycare providers are not certified to make reports. I'm sure alot of people will come forward saying they have made reports before. Why are they allowed to make reports then, they are not certified according to this judge.

[Teagansmom]

Hbihuhbulihbkihb

[adaycarelady]

I'll be emailing soon too. I just had a look on the CAS website and under 'reporting abuse' it doesn't say what qualifications you need to report so I would like to know where this judge is getting his information from. I'm in Saskatchewan, so I would like to also know if all Canadian providers need to be certified, if it's just the Toronto providers. As a childcare provider, I'd like to know what laws apply to me. Although after hearing this story I would now consider terminating a child who I suspect is being abused/neglected because the justice system doesn't seem to be on my side. I just don't want the liability which puts children more at risk. I'm sure alot of childcare providers feel this way after hearing this story. Haven't been this mad in a while lol.

[Jilly]

Hello...so sorry to hear your news! I am new to this board and I also have a few ideas for you, but first I must ask what was it exactly that you reported to CAS? Secondly, how did the "parent/s" get your name from CAS when it is a privacy issue if they divulged that. Also what made you come to the conclusion that there was abuse/neglect (which by they way is the same thing!)

[Gloucestermom]

Have you thought of setting up a petition with change.org?

[Teagansmom]

Hukuukgjuhkihi

[Teagansmom]

Uhukhbhukbhb

[torontokids]

What is the name of the worker so I can make my letter addressed to their attention.

[Teagansmom]

Igvuggyukgkhgj

[torontokids]

Here's my letter minus the personal info. Sometimes a sample encourages others to write one (or copy and paste the relevant stuff).

To: Mr. Smith,
I am a Social Worker and I have worked alongside The CAS throughout my career. I recently left Social Work to open a home daycare in order to have the opportunity to spend my days with my own young children. It has come to my attention that a home childcare provider has been sued and found guilty by an Ontario Court Judge after making a report of suspected neglect. This is extremely concerning to me not only as a home childcare provider but also as someone who has worked closely with children who have been abused and neglected. This case will make me hesitate before filing a report, even anonymously for fear of financial repercussions. I have a “duty to report” and it is my obligation to make this report and leave the investigation to the CAS. This judgment goes against what I was taught in school and on the job. I can’t tell you the number of times a supervisor advised me to make a report to CAS because it is safer for that child if any suspicions are investigated rather than “waiting and seeing.”
My hope is that with The Children’s Aid Society’s support and guidance, this case will get appealed. Tammy Larabie did not do anything wrong; she was doing her job and ensuring the children in her care were safe.
Sincerely,

Torontokids

[Teagansmom]

Oukhglighliug

[bright sparks]

Here's my letter minus the personal info. Sometimes a sample encourages others to write one (or copy and paste the relevant stuff).

To: Mr. Smith,
I am a Social Worker and I have worked alongside The CAS throughout my career. I recently left Social Work to open a home daycare in order to have the opportunity to spend my days with my own young children. It has come to my attention that a home childcare provider has been sued and found guilty by an Ontario Court Judge after making a report of suspected neglect. This is extremely concerning to me not only as a home childcare provider but also as someone who has worked closely with children who have been abused and neglected. This case will make me hesitate before filing a report, even anonymously for fear of financial repercussions. I have a “duty to report” and it is my obligation to make this report and leave the investigation to the CAS. This judgment goes against what I was taught in school and on the job. I can’t tell you the number of times a supervisor advised me to make a report to CAS because it is safer for that child if any suspicions are investigated rather than “waiting and seeing.”
My hope is that with The Children’s Aid Society’s support and guidance, this case will get appealed. Tammy Larabie did not do anything wrong; she was doing her job and ensuring the children in her care were safe.
Sincerely,

Torontokids

Great letter Torontokids. I'm going to do a little research on the law and exactly what is and is not when it comes to "duty to report" and then compose a letter over the weekend. I am up to my eyeballs with my 2nd job right now and on a tight timeline by end of day tomorrow and the last thing I want to do is rush it and write it full of emotion or do a half ass job. I'm a little puzzled that a teacher commented on here about not ever being told or taught about "duty to report" yet social workers are. You'd think that teachers would be the majority who report. Regardless I'd like to have my letter be educated and fact based when I write it. I'll email a copy to you before I send it to CAS too.

Just out of curiosity, did your paralegal say why they did not call the CAS to the stand to verify whether there was due cause to report? Aren't they the ones with the legal training to make that call not a judge?

[Teagansmom]

Hukbukhbkjhbkubhjkbh

[Teagansmom]

Bright sparks thanks for your support. It means a lot, no rush.

[adaycarelady]

http://socialservices.gov.s k.ca/child-protection

Here's who we report to in Saskatchewan which clearly states 'anyone' who suspects child abuse/neglect (not anyone who is certified/qualified) must report it. I'd like to know if this judge thinks daycare workers in Saskatchewan are 'not allowed' to report since he'd be taking on the provincial government here. I think he made his judgement based on his personal opinion and not laws/facts. I'd see what the methods of reporting abuse/neglect is in each province (I'm sure they all state we must report), that would be good info to support your appeal!

[Teagansmom]

Here is a link to a great fact sheet from the Ministry of Children and Youth Services on reporting.

http://www.children.gov.on. ca/htdocs/English/topics/childrensaid/reportingabuse/abuseandneglect/abuseandneglect.aspx

[Teagansmom]

Just posted ontarios

http://socialservices.gov.s k.ca/child-protection

Here's who we report to in Saskatchewan which clearly states 'anyone' who suspects child abuse/neglect (not anyone who is certified/qualified) must report it. I'd like to know if this judge thinks daycare workers in Saskatchewan are 'not allowed' to report since he'd be taking on the provincial government here. I think he made his judgement based on his personal opinion and not laws/facts. I'd see what the methods of reporting abuse/neglect is in each province (I'm sure they all state we must report), that would be good info to support your appeal!

[Teagansmom]

Wow yours is really detailed and great that it says that it's not your job to determine but a trainee social worker. And you can get a $25000 fine and imprisonment for not reporting.

http://socialservices.gov.s k.ca/child-protection

Here's who we report to in Saskatchewan which clearly states 'anyone' who suspects child abuse/neglect (not anyone who is certified/qualified) must report it. I'd like to know if this judge thinks daycare workers in Saskatchewan are 'not allowed' to report since he'd be taking on the provincial government here. I think he made his judgement based on his personal opinion and not laws/facts. I'd see what the methods of reporting abuse/neglect is in each province (I'm sure they all state we must report), that would be good info to support your appeal!

[bright sparks]

Here is a link to a great fact sheet from the Ministry of Children and Youth Services on reporting.

http://www.children.gov.on. ca/htdocs/English/topics/childrensaid/reportingabuse/abuseandneglect/abuseandneglect.aspx

Honestly, this really leaves me with such a loss of faith in our justice system. This judge needs a bollocking and significant consequences. The link clearly states that the "public" have a duty to report. It also lists professionals which include child and youth service providers which would include our profession. ABSOLUTLY NOWHERE does it say that those professionals must be licensed, also it says that the public have as much responsibility as a professional. It also states clearly that the person who files the report, should a civil case be brought against them, will be fully protected.

How the hell has this happened???? This judge is going against Ontario Provincial laws WTF!?! And why have CAS not been along side you through this entire trial? They are also responsible in part for this. I am so furious.....I wish I was your lawyer, this is outrageous. I'll write my letter and back it up all they way home. Anything else I can help you with please feel free to message me!

[adaycarelady]

Here is a link to a great fact sheet from the Ministry of Children and Youth Services on reporting.

http://www.children.gov.on. ca/htdocs/English/topics/childrensaid/reportingabuse/abuseandneglect/abuseandneglect.aspx

The judge isn't following Ontario laws, it says right there:

"Who is responsible for reporting a child in need of protection?

Anyone who has reasonable grounds to suspect that a child is or may be in need of protection must promptly report the suspicion and the information upon which it is based to a CAS."(Doesn't say people have to be qualified/certified or must speak with the family involved or doctor).

"What are "reasonable grounds" to suspect child abuse or neglect?

It is not necessary for you to be certain a child is or may be in need of protection to make a report to a CAS. "Reasonable grounds" refers to the information that an average person, using normal and honest judgment, would need in order to decide to report." (Daycare providers have experience meeting daily needs of children. We have the common sense to identify if a child's well being is at risk. Plus it's better to be safe than sorry.)

[Teagansmom]

Khvukhbhkubuhbkjhbjk hb

[Wonderwiper]

Is there a way to push for more support from CAS? Sue them for not standing up for you and defending their own policies....that would get some attention!

I think if you can get media interest you may be able to find a lawyer to take your case pro bono....seems like it could be precedent setting.

[Teagansmom]

Ukhjhkgkhubuhbukh

[Teagansmom]

Ghgfhjhhhhhhhhh

[Discoveries]

Many providers advertise on Kijiji, maybe you could reach some more providers by posting your story on a number of different cities. The more people that are aware, the greater the chance of gathering more support.

[torontokids]

One of the things that I don't get is why this court case hasn't been in the media already? There is also no info about it on the internet that I could find. You would think that a news feed would have picked up on it. At the very least, court proceedings are public. You should be able to find something.

I also don't get why the CAS wasn't subpoenaed. Even if the worker was on vacation during the date of the hearing, a supervisor would have been sent in lieu of them. Plus, a vacation wouldn't void a subpoena, this is a legal document that they are required to abide by.

[Teagansmom]

UHhkughkugkhgjkhb

[torontokids]

You should contact the Law Society of Upper Canada and do a formal complaint against the paralegal. They could be reprimanded. This may help your appeal as well as it shows you had poor representation and they were reprimanded. You should have adjourned until she was subpoenaed, he should have told you this. You had poor representation (you know this already) and would have fared better with hiring a "walmart greeter" with no knowledge of the law.

[Teagansmom]

Iybiyugogugyuygui

[Teagansmom]

Can someone from the CAS be present during your appeal?

Just did some googling and found this page:

http://www.ontariocourts.ca/ocj/self-represented-parties/guide-for-self-represented-litigants-in-family-court-trials/guide.

Don't know if this situation is family law or not, but they give you a number where you can get free 30 minute consultations with lawyers.

Thanks, it's a small claims court case. If you don't have representation a duty counsel will help you. I did call that number before and had a consultation with a lawyer about the case. I should see if they will allow me to call again since it's in appeal now. Thanks for reminding me.

[33 Daiseys]

Hey, once again so sorry that i couldn't ave been there to help. If you still have my number feel free to call

[Van]

I am so sorry for the outcome of the trail
Can you go to your bank and ask for an Equity Line of Credit for the money you need to pay the fine and also the lawyer so that way you don't lose your house
I studied in Toronto and in Vancouver and both colleges said we are to call CAS or Fam services in Vanc to protect the child as we are the last chance the child has sometimes - it did not say contact the child's Dr and let him check so the Judge got it wrong

[Teagansmom]

Liblihbhlblijbulihlu h

[torontokids]

That's great news! How many letters did they receive (just out of curiosity)

[Teagansmom]

Oihbljihlihhluih

[Teagansmom]

Jhvjkhgukhbkhbkjhbjk hbbjhkkhb

[mamaof4]

I just can't believe this happened- I hope CAS helps work through this with you.

[kindertime]

Like everyone else here, I wish you all the luck with this horrible situation. I agree too, that this is a story that should be in the media. I can imagine how I would dread being the "poster child" for this situation but I think it needs to be brought to the public's attention.

Unlike you, though I wonder if this story will deter anyone in the future from reporting. People have been charged for not reporting, so this story, I think should highlight, if nothing else, this judge's ignorance. Anyone who looks after children knows, the first and most important thing we do is protect their health and safety.

I am curious, in your OP, you said you were closing down. Have you? Because I think that would be too bad. Yours is the kind of story we should be hearing about a home daycare. Well, sort of. This whole thing should never have happened in the first place. But what I mean is, too often the news is, "home daycare shut down by police," "kids left out in the cold," etc. You were only doing what you thought was best.

If you do decide to speak to the media, try CBC's Go Public. On their website you'll find it under "The National." This is exactly the kind of story they do. Email them gopublic@cbc.ca.

[Teagansmom]

Hvkhjvukhbjbhhkhbkjh bkj

[superfun]

I mentioned this already, but if you set up an online fundraiser, I know I would donate to help you out.

[SillyGirl_C]

I think Kindertime has a great idea. Go Public would love a story like this. Keep fighting Tegansmom! I am sorry you became the voice of mandated reporter...but stay strong!

[JennJubie]

I mentioned this already, but if you set up an online fundraiser, I know I would donate to help you out.

I would as well. I'm sure most of here would!

[Teagansmom]

Uhvuhkbukbkuhbkkjhb

[Teagansmom]

Kbikuboihoiubiou

[kindertime]

Wow, that's wonderful news!! Good luck on Wednesday, we'll be thinking good thoughts for you. And yes, enjoy the weekend.

[JennJubie]

That's wonderful news! Now you can go and enjoy your weekend with less stress!

[Van]

Roll on Wednesday
and good luck for the fight of your life
we are here for you
sounds like the tide has turned :)

[bright sparks]

Wow what great news!!! I hope they get that judge by the balls and hold him accountable for making such a bad call and that true justice is done. Have a great weekend

[sunnydays]

I have not read all the comments, but from what I read, I am really shocked and feel so sorry for you. This should not be happening at all! Nobody will report anything if we have this fear hanging over our heads! I am sure none of us would make a report to CAS if we didn't have good reason...and I am sure it took a whole lot of debate and worry before deciding to do so. To now be sued for trying to protect a child (whether or not the child ended up being proven to be neglected/abused or not) is really disgusting.
I really think you should take this to the media. In particular, CBC has a new (I think) program called "Go Public". I just noticed the other day that they were asking viewers to contact them with stories. This seems like the kind of story that people need to hear about and perhaps that way you will get the help you need. Good luck!!!

[Teagansmom]

Igvyiuvyoguhghjbhk

[5 Little Monkeys]

I don't know what I would do if I were in your shoes. I am so sorry you have to deal with this and for so long!!

Are there any options that are a flat out no? What are you leaning towards?

It sucks to do option 3 but will it be the best decision for you and your family in the long run? Can you afford to do it? I would have an extremely hard time with that option too but if it was the best choice than I guess I'd have to suck it up and do it. I really don't know what I'd do...

[kindertime]

Teagansmom - thank you for updating us, I can see that this is a difficult time, none of these options is what you were hoping for.

I know this isn't a situation where we all get to vote or anything, but I would still think that an appeal is the best option. However, did you mean that the lawyer would abandon you completely if you went to the media, or just that she would not help with the media? That is a big difference. Have you run out of time for the appeal?

Did the lawyer say anything about the judgement? You can't introduce new evidence, fine, but its the fact that the first judge said you had no right to report to CAS that is the problem. That's what you are appealing.

It might sound stupid, but if you did go to the media, maybe they would know something. A reporter who covers court cases might know how to get things done. (Not like a lawyer, of course) And of course, they won't run a story without your ok first. Good luck and take care of yourself.:glomp:

[Teagansmom]

Hvhukblihguhuky

[Teagansmom]

Objohboibhhbliuh

[Emma H]

If you put up a go fund me or any type of fundraiser please let me know and I will help out as much as I can. Another thing, I know of someone who took out loan money for an appeal, she won, but her back up plan was to file for bankruptcy if she lost.

[3rdtimesacharm]

Have you considered a second opinion from another lawyer? I don't know why the CAS wouldn't want to support you if you went to the media, they should be just as furious at the judgement in your case and, more importantly, people need to know what has happened!! I'm sure every single person on this forum will be second guessing it if they ever thought about having to make a report to CAS.
What about another lawyer, if they agree to take your case, and if you won, they would be paid from the settlement, and if you lose maybe you could find a lawyer who doesnt get paid if you don't win.

[torontokids]

I wonder why the lawyer doesn't think your chances are good on appeal? Does the report look malicious to them?

I wonder if the media is a lost cause only because you brought the issue to a few media personal prior to the court case and no one was interested.

I don't know what I would do either. Personally, I never take no for an answer so my first choice would be to get a second opinion from another lawyer. Then I would probably go through the appeal process or if the other lawyer said my chances were slim, pay the money and move on (begrudgingly).

[torontokids]

CAS doesn't want this to go to the media because it would make people hesitate before making a report.

[torontokids]

Oh, and I would totally sue the paralegal or at the very least report them to the Law Society of Upper Canada.

[Teagansmom]

Hovhuighuouhbkuhb

[Teagansmom]

Kbjkhbkiublihbikbliu h

[MsBell]

This situation just sucks so bad, I just don't know what to say! I am so sorry you are having to deal with this!

The only advice I have to give, just a couple weeks ago, my family went to court. My father had passed years ago, and his neighbour was claiming his estate (LONG story!) anyways the jusdge said to us "the last place you will ever see justice is in civil court" we ended up settling (basically we paid a guy that took my father for every cent, to go away) You might be able to fundraise to collect some of the settlement, but if you appeal and lose, could you get out of that debt? I think I would go to the media, if nothing, it will bring attention to a flawed system!

[superfun]

There must be a way to raise money, even if it's not technically being used for legal fees? I'm really a novice at this, but it seems like there should be a way to set up an account if the just want to give you money.
Let's say you raised money to pay your mortgage, but the money you saved by not making a mortgage payment... you know?

[Teagansmom]

Ohbohibohbibuiubl

[kindertime]

I looked up Champerty -Google - the legal definition seems to be someone paying for someone else to sue (a third person) in exchange for a share of the award or winnings. A Go fund me campaign wouldn't be that. The people who raised money for you wouldn't be entitled to any award. I don't know.

It seems as though the CAS lawyer was working both sides, representing the CAS while advising you but still looking out for the CAS's interest. I think the others are right, could you get a second opinion?

[Teagansmom]

Ohihoiboibbhilbh

[Teagansmom]

Also the appeal needs to be filed by the 5th so that leaves me 2 days to decide.

[kindertime]

http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/html/source/regs/english/2014/elaws_src_regs_r1409 4_e.htm

This link is for the cost of court transcriptions. $4.30/page or $20.00 whichever is greater, sounds like $20.00 max. Not $1500. Am I wrong?

Also, you can get electronic copy for $20.00 Maybe that's easier.

Got this by Google - transcripts from a trial ontario

[innisfildaycare]

It's a tough call....you don't want to have to spend any more money then you already did or have to....I am extremely dramatic and always love a good a fight + attention.... so you may not agree with me, but I would definitely write a letter stating your side, all the facts and the outcome. Not too long though, you want to make your case clear and to the point. That letter should be emailed to anyone and everyone who will listen, especially to those who don't want to listen. No one should be blind copied, everyone getting this letter should get to see who else is getting it also. You should send it to multiple lawyers, CAS, caregivers, newspapers, ANYONE and EVERYONE YOU CAN!! This is a devastating situation and you should NOT back down. Even if you pay out, your story needs to be told!

[playfelt]

I was thinking about the conflict of interest too in the sense that CAS set you up with a lawyer of their choice to discourage you from doing anything not in the best interests of CAS. What about making use of your MPP with the idea of him/her bringing up your case in question period so it is out there in the hansard files for all to read even in the future. The question is how can a person be brought to ruin for trying to protect a child. ie asking for parliament to assure the members that a person who is a mandated reporter is legally protected as they are supposed to be. The media then will get wind of what is going on potentially on their own or through your MPP - ie not you going directly to the media. The word has to get out there as a warning that life has changed in our province. CAS is not working on your side in this case. Also interesting to note how often this has happened before as in judges determining outcomes. Wonder what advice CAS gave to the family in question when they asked about getting their name cleared - did CAS say their only option was to sue to clear themselves in the sense that CAS is playing both sides of the fence.

I know for sure I will never be reporting anything I see to the actual authorities but telling someone else who is a mandated reporter my suspicions knowing in theory they have to report what they have been told.

[momofnerds]

I think it's time for the paper. If this happened to you, I bet you it has happened to others too. Imagine the support you will receive but it will also show the loop hole cas is too. All it takes is one person to read your story to make the difference. I don't understand why you can't turn around and file a suit against them for loss of bussiness

[flowerchild]

I was going to ask about the MPP as well.

This is such an awful situation.

[Teagansmom]

Uhulhblublihbiublibi

[innisfildaycare]

Why would you have to provide new evidence to appeal? Wouldnt you just be able to appeal because you feel you didnt get a fair trial the first time? You wouldnt need new evidence, you would present the same evidence? Sorry - I dont know much about the law regarding appeals and so forth but this just doesnt seem fair!

[torontokids]

Because her paralegal sucked and didn't present any evidence e.g. CAS's testimony. This was one of the things that would have cleared her possibly and she can't introduce this new witness on appeal.

[superfun]

I can totally imagine how hard it will be to get over paying this family. I'm not sure I could have been as rational, in your shoes. And also, that's so frustrating about the paralegal. Thanks for keeping us updated. I'll be watching for the link.

[kindertime]

I am sure that the emotional toll this is taking is still overwhelming, but I am glad that you have come to a decision. And having the time to decide how to proceed should you choose to sue the paralegal will hopefully help too.

I am also glad to hear that you intend to continue working on this. I think you may be the best advocate for reform because you have experienced one of the nasty sides of this system. I say "one of" because Toronto Children's Aid Society was in the news yesterday because they are failing to implement recommendations made by the coroner in the Jeffrey Baldwin case.

I will be waiting too for your link and will spread the word too.

[Teagansmom]

Uvhkuvhgoughkubh

[Teagansmom]

Hbliubilbuiliub

[torontokids]

If I can make some suggestions it would be to decrease your fundraising goal. According to the statement, you owe the family $10, 000 + $3000. I understand you would have incurred other costs like your own paralegal fees etc but unless this is listed it may look bad on you. Some sites only allow you to keep the money if your full goal is reached as well (not sure about this one).

The heading could be better too...not sure of what though. Penalized for reporting is just not clear to anyone who is already not familiar with the case or people not in the business.

Also, I would change your picture to one of you with your kids or with DCkids (those with permission) and shots of your daycare/program. The photo although nice just seems so unrelated to the issue KWIM?

Lastly, I know your SIL wrote it but it is very factual and there is not a lot of emotion in the post. How has this effected you (aside from closing your DC?)

Just giving you suggestions so you could possibly be more successful in achieving your goal.

I am not on face book but perhaps this could be shared with ECE professionals, social workers and teachers, all who have a duty to report and this can impact them.

[Teagansmom]

Ohhioguoibihuiohulih u

[5 Little Monkeys]

I hope this isn't creepy but I looked you up on Facebook and shared your status of what happened. I also put a link to your gofundme page with it!

With you going public, I'd suggest making your fb page private but that's just me! I hope this goes well for you...it's really unfair!!

[5 Little Monkeys]

I got your first message but not the second I emptied my mailbox so there should be room now!

[Teagansmom]

I got your first message but not the second I emptied my mailbox so there should be room now!

It was just to say Thank you....thanks!

[SillyGirl_C]

Posted the Go Fund Me page on my FB. This is an important case, an important precedent. Let's hope it spreads in BC and you get a little west coast funds :)

[Van]

Posted the Go Fund Me page on my FB. More support for you means more Money to help pay for a bad situation: in legal fees , a bad Judge and how the case was handled- it could have been any one of us and that makes it real for me

[Teagansmom]

Hukyukgukygkuygkuuyb k

[3rdtimesacharm]

Tegansmom, hi! Have you considered changing the name of your gofundme to "Sued for Reporting to Children's Aid!!!" Or something along the likes? I have to be honest! I am afraid to share this post on my Facebook because I have 4 Facebook families on my friends list, and, honestly, I don't want them to be afraid of me calling CAS on them for no reason. Not that you had no reason, but because none was listed, it makes the me wonder. Are you not able to put any reason why you initially called CAS!? Also, have you considered a photo of some children instead of a family photo? Something with some daycare kiddos, maybe? The photo, and the name of the fund is a big reason would be a big help in getting this story shared. Yes, I have donated, as I hope the rest of us seeing this post have done as well. Anything, $5, $10, $20, anything helps!

[Teagansmom]

Hbubhlihbliuhuilh