Anyone know if this is a scam

[momofnerds]

I have a friend who is a provider, she sent me this message. She belongs to a private home daycare group (I don't belong to it) apparently the ministry of education is knocking on doors of home daycare providers and asking to see their attendance sheets and the bill 10 waiver. Apparently it's going on in the Toronto area. I think it's a scam but ?..

[kindertime]

Your best bet to know for sure is to call the ministry. Make sure you talk to the right person, whoever knows about the daycare part.

[sandylynn]

See the bill 10 "waiver" ??????

[CrazyEight]

Under Bill 10, we are supposed to have parents sign something that effectively says they understand we are not licensed and not inspected or affiliated with an agency. The idiotic Liberals seem to think that this will make parents suddenly drop private providers and run to agencies or centers. It's ridiculous, but it's in the Bill.

I'm assuming that's what the OP means?

[sandylynn]

What? And this is effective when?

[Busy ECE mommy]

I didn't know anything about the waiver. Is this for all clients to sign, or just the "under 2yrs" clients? Where do I find a download of the waiver?

[CrazyEight]

There is no waiver written. The Bill just says that ALL clients must acknowledge with a signature that they understand the daycare is private and not licensed. I've added it as an addition to my contract. As far as I understand it, you do not need to have it added until Jan. 2016, when the "grandfathering" period is over.

I don't have it in front of me, but I put something along the lines of:

"Insert daycare name" is a legal, private, unlicensed home daycare. In Ontario, home daycares can legally operate privately or under an Agency umbrella. I cannot obtain an individual license for a home daycare, as it does not exist, and have chosen to remain a private business rather than working for a licensed Agency. I currently operate under all conditions laid out by the Ontario Day Nurseries Act. As of Jan. 1st, 2016, I will be operating under the new Childcare Modernization Act (Bill 10) and in order to be compliant with this Act, I must have all clients acknowledge that they understand the difference between private and licensed home daycare.

[babydom]

Crazy eight if u get time can u send what u will get ur clients to sign? I like the above. Do u mind if I use it? I'd have no idea what to write. Do we get all parents to sign on one page or print this out times five? Thank u for the help.

[CrazyEight]

Feel free to use that or something like it. I don't think it matters if they are individual of if you have all the signatures on one. It COULD be spelled out more specifically in the regulations of the Bill that are "supposed" to be written by the Liberals this month. In the regulatory phase, they go through the Bill point by point and spell it all out (that's what we're waiting for with the confusion surrounding provider's own kids in full-day kindergarten, for example).

Again, as far as I know, it doesn't need to be done until Jan. 2016, but I just had all my parents sign a copy of it at the start of the New Year and attached it to each client's contract, just so I didn't have to worry about it. I wanted potential new clients to understand that I am not operating outside of the law because I am not licensed, so that's why I put in the part about not being able to obtain a license as an independent business.

[playfelt]

December only passed the bill in principle. As far as I know nothing comes into play until proclamation. The reality is a parent knows a provider is not with an agency because they went to the provider themselves and did not contract with an agency so it is a very stupid redundant thing. If the parent is not with an agency then it should be assumed that the provider is not with the agency. Yes there are some providers with an agency that also take children privately and for those parents that is a perk in some respects. Why does the government assume parents are stupid.

[momofnerds]

We'll nothing has been said anymore. I spent the evening looking for anything and came up empty. I think this was a disgruntled parent playing tricks on a provider. And I rarely get asked if I'm licences I think parents just know because I don't run a facility. Also the bill is stupid and I haven't seen anything written in stone,it's lot of here say with dates. Maybe they should start with combing thru kijij first and getting rid of the weirdos before going after the hard working moms

[cfred]

The official date of compliance will be with Proclamation....at least with regards to ratios. I got a letter from the Ministry stating that. Proclamation is projected to occur no sooner than the fall...but we really don't know exactly when that will be. Yes, providers have had the Ministry show up at the door. I've heard of a few. One woman had a lengthy thread about this on FB just a couple of weeks ago. It is happening. I've not had it happen to me yet, but am getting my waiver done, just in case. The officials who showed up at this woman's door didn't say specifically what alerted them to her home. They indicated that it could be because someone lodged a complaint or there was an inquiry.

[innisfildaycare]

I'm a little confused! Although I have gathered that Bill 10 has passed and the effective date is Jan 2016, I keep hearing different stories through different caregiviers. Is it 100% happening, or not?

Thanks

[bright sparks]

Wouldn't you think that as home daycare providers we file our taxes a certain way and that the government would have contacted each and everyone via CRA records to inform us of changes and keep us informed? It is as though they want us to be left in the dark so they can catch us not sticking to the rules!! How on earth are we supposed to know what is going on. Even those with connections do not have a clear and confirmed anything about this Bill. It's all he said, she said and interpretation and assumption. How about the government make this much more of a smooth transition, regardless of whether we agree with it or not, so we can all get in line with the laws accurately. 23 weeks left for me so I am not going to lose any sleep or change the way I'm doing anything unless I get an official letter in my mail box. What a crock...

[momofnerds]

I would find it odd that th ministry would just show up. You would think that they have better things to do

[kindertime]

I am not personally affected by Bill 10, but I have done a lot of reading of laws in my time. I figured out many years ago, the only way I could really know what was required and allowed by law was to actually read the law and the regulations that go with it. It isn't easy. They are written to be precise and they tend to use 'legaleze" that can be confusing.

If you want to know what Bill 10 says, follow the link
http://www.ontla.on.ca/web/bills/bills_detail.do?loca le=en&BillID=3002

This is the official Ont. gov't site. It explains about the old Day Nurseries Act and gives the official version of the new law.

[sandylynn]

Hmmmm...well I will tell you one thing....if I am not expecting anyone at my home during the day....I don't answer my door....so they can stand there all day! If my parents are coming early . ...they send me a text...and tell me what time they are coming.....so I am expecting them....as long as I am abiding by the "5"....children....I am not worried...come Jan 2016 I will abide by the 2 under 2....but until then....:D

[innisfildaycare]

I NEVER answer my door during the day either. Ive always made a point to tell parents that if they are visiting outside of their normal drop off and pick up times, to call me first because I refuse to answer the door AT ALL...EVER!! So they would be standing at my door for a while as well.

Just a quick question - not sure if this is the right place for it. If I have 5 fulltime children, but 1 leaves before school is over, can I have 1 afterschool child? It would be only 5 children and any given time, which abides with the new laws, however at the end of the year, Id be giving tax receipts for 6 children?

Thanks

[cfred]

As long as you abide by the 2 under 2 and including your own children under 6, you're fine. Lots of people have part timers.

I'm not sure what happens if you just don't answer your door. I understand that if they are refused entry, they can just go ahead and get a warrant. Not sure if they still have to knock at that point....and I think you're probably setting yourself for a pretty intensive inspection in that case. Do what you want, but I will make sure I'm compliant by Proclamation and will absolutely let them in if they come to my door. It's a pretty massive fine, without due process, if you're caught out of compliance. And, I can't remember if it was Kathleen or Liz who actually said that the fines they collect could be considered revenue (something to that affect). I would fully expect to be checked in on...they're making the rounds by the sounds of it. And they do not need to tell you why they're there. There could have been a complaint....they could have looked you up in here.....they could have found you on kijiji....doesn't matter.

[sandylynn]

How could they have looked me up in here?

[cfred]

Not YOU specifically...but there are plenty of unlicensed providers listed in here. Or many of us have websites. Or on Kijiji. It doesn't matter anyway. If you're in compliance, it's not a problem. From the last thread I read, they want to see your attendance record, want parents' info, etc. Really...this is what they SHOULD have been doing all along...their jobs!

But, if you're saying that you'll be in compliance by Jan 2016 and not Proclamation (for kids brought in after Royal Assent)....well...yo u might have a problem if someone shows up at your door. I can also say with confidence that they won't accept 'I didn't know' as an excuse. One ministry official answered that question by stating that 'you're in this business, you should know the rules'. It's in the bill, there are more than enough conversations about it....or....write the Ministry and ask for clarification. They will send a letter at some point. But, I can save you that step. The letter they sent me stated very clearly that ONLY children in care before Royal Assent are grandfathered in until January 2016. Anyone after Royal Assent must be in compliance by Proclamation (projected for fall). Yes, there has been confusion. But this is right from a letter from the Ministry and most of us are aware that this is the case now.

[ebhappydc]

How do we know if someone does show up at the door, or in summer meet us outside on our yard, that the they are actually from Ministry? Ask to see their badge? There really some crazy peeps out there...

[flowerchild]

How do we know if someone does show up at the door, or in summer meet us outside on our yard, that the they are actually from Ministry? Ask to see their badge? There really some crazy peeps out there...

I think I would ask to see some ID and then I would politely ask them to wait outside while I called the ministry to verify that they were who they said they were etc. A polite smile and a "you understand, of course, that a woman with small children in her care can't be too careful." In my opinion, they would have no reason to say no to that. Especially since they are doing checks "for the good of the children." I would make the call on the porch in their presence if they wanted, but it would be on MY phone and I would dial.

[CrazyEight]

Somebody who WAS actually inspected about a month ago now posted on one of the FB groups against Bill 10 that the inspectors had their ID ready for her to see and actually gave her the number of the Ministry to call. It was all automated until she got through to the right person, so she knew it was the right number. They seem very open about who they are and apparently waited politely for her to verify that they were who they said they were.