Advice please!

[ialmostcare]

Hi all,

I've been watching these forums for quite a while and have learned a great deal from them. I was hoping you all could provide me with a bit of advice.

I have started a small dayhome and had my first child (9 month old girl) start today. She did pretty well - didn't cry when mom dropped her off, was happy all day, played well with my son, ate well. The only issue is that it took over an hour of rocking her to get her to nap and even then, she only napped for a half hour. According to her mom, it is typical for her to take this long to fall asleep. Her parents do not want her to cry it out; they insist that she must be rocked to sleep.

Fortunately, my hubby was home today so he tended to my son while I was rocking her but how do I make this work while still tending to my son (and eventually other children)? I have an interview tomorrow to fill my last two spots and am wondering if I should cancel until I know what's going on with current DCG.

Thanks in advance. :-)

[torontokids]

IMO it is not practical to rock a child to sleep while running a day home. I think you either need to tell the parents you cannot rock her for 1 hr per day and see whether they are agreeable to a modified CIO or terminate (if they are completely inflexible about this). I would definitely interview the other clients. Why should you turn away 2 possibly great kids for one really high maintenance napper? I only suggest termination because the parents said this is a) typical and b) she must be put down this way.

[torontokids]

I learned this lesson the hard way too and it is a quick road to burn out. Screen for this in interviews as well.

[CrazyEight]

Oh damn....there is no way I would take on a child with the agreement that they must be rocked to sleep. How are you supposed to take the time to do that, with multiple other small children that need to be settled down??

I've had a few interviews with parents who do this, and I tell them that it is simply not conducive to a group care environment. The parents need to start letting her cry it out, because that's the only way you're going to be able to handle multiple little ones. I put them down, rub their back for a second, and leave. If they start wailing, so be it. For new ones, I go in after about 15-20 minutes to shush them, rub their backs, let them know it's ok, but I do NOT pick them up, as then they'll simply expect to get picked up again if they keep on crying. If she's never put herself to sleep, it's going to be a long, difficult road getting her there - and damn near impossible if her parents aren't on board.

This is YOUR business and YOUR policies must be followed. If the parents want to "insist" on something like that, then they need to get a nanny. At this point, I'm not sure of the best advice to give you, being as you already have the child in care and have already agreed to rocking her to sleep. I'd tell the parents right away that this is not going to work long-term, sit down, and work out a plan together to get her falling asleep on her own. If they won't meet you halfway and do their part to get their child ready for group care, then personally, I wouldn't keep them. You can't be expected to rock their child to sleep for an HOUR - what if another child needs you for some reason - they throw up, climb out of a playpen and hurt themselves, have a nightmare, whatever? It is unfair and unsafe to have that much time solely devoted to one child.

[kindertime]

If this girl is only 9 months, is she napping in the am and pm? Cuz, wow, an hour each time? I agree with everybody else, this will become unmanageable real quick. At 9 mths, there is no reason she can't learn to sleep on her own. But you are the one who has to insist that is the only way you'll do it. It is for her own good after all.

If she will be sleeping in the same room as the others, I would suggest you start the CIO now, so when the others start, she's at least part way there.

[Suzie_Homemaker]

I would start getting her used to putting herself to sleep. Okay, so you now know that you can't rock a day care kid to sleep but you did commit to not letting her CIO.
Focus on getting her settled before your other places fill whilst you have time to address.
Lay her down awake. When the cry, rub back a bit and leave. Let cry for 10 mins and then go back, lay down, rub back a bit and leave again. No other interact. No chatting. No picking up. Will take a few days because it's not as quick to teach as CIO but at least it mean you not break your word.
For future requests - consider if you can do for all children. Can't rub 4 backs at same time, can't rock 4 kids at same time, can't carry 4 kids at same time. Ask yourself can you do this request for all at same time. If answer is no, then it not a reasonable request from day home.

[ialmostcare]

Thank you all for taking the time to reply. I suspect I was a bit too eager to sign my first family, and should have asked more questions. I didn't discover until they had already signed the contract (and sent me a long list of "requests") that she needed to be rocked to sleep. I was hopeful that she would only need to be rocked for a few minutes and would then settle on her own, but nope... One hour later of crying/screaming/constant rocking. My own child had little trouble going to sleep as a baby, so this is as much of an adjustment for me as it is for her (DCG).

Regardless, I think you have all confirmed what I was thinking - that I need to get parents on board with letting her cry it out (which is doubtful as they said in their list of requests that there should be "absolutely no crying it out") or I will need to terminate. I can't afford to have a dayhome with just one child (part-time at that, she's only Monday/Wednesday/Friday). :-) And if I keep her on, I wouldn't feel comfortable taking any others on.

Thanks again.

[ialmostcare]

Sorry Kindertime, just noticed your question. She has both AM and PM naps, so that is two hours of rocking (and a LOT of crying/screaming) per day. Ack.

[ialmostcare]

Unfortunately her parents would consider that (laying her down and leaving) to be crying it out. They want her rocked constantly until she falls asleep. No putting her down. :-/

[Suzie_Homemaker]

Don't feel bad. It sound like this a extra request after contract signed, above service you offered.

Lot of parent send requests list. I tend to return and say that I can't run individual programs, that I promise to take care of their child are they know from interview but day care children have to adjust and fit my program, I can't mirror all of theirs. It not practical in multi-child setting.

[Suzie_Homemaker]

Unfortunately her parents would consider that (laying her down and leaving) to be crying it out. They want her rocked constantly until she falls asleep. No putting her down. :-/

In that case, ask them how they suggest you do this for all the children at the same time. It not practical but if they have method to do it, you'd love to hear.

It not okay for you to rock just one child for an hour and leave others with less supervision. They must be able see that.

[ialmostcare]

Don't feel bad. It sound like this a extra request after contract signed, above service you offered.

Lot of parent send requests list. I tend to return and say that I can't run individual programs, that I promise to take care of their child are they know from interview but day care children have to adjust and fit my program, I can't mirror all of theirs. It not practical in multi-child setting.

That makes sense. I just feel that if I had asked more (better) questions, this whole situation would have been avoided. They turned down two other dayhomes for mine. I guess it's a lesson learned. Thank you for your support.

[MsBell]

Gotta love those parents with alll the special requests after signing on!
I am with the others, simply tell the parents that it is an unreasonable request, and if they are not ok with another way, then terminate, this will drive you crazy very quickly, and it is unfair to you and other children in care. Also, I wonder how many providers they asked about that only to be turned down, so they kept quiet about it? For me it is a big red flag, if a parent asked me to rock their child to sleep, the meeting would likely not need to continue (that and a complaint about my rate! )

[torontokids]

And she's part time? She'll never adjust then, especially with the parents having such different expectations.

[mickyc]

Going forward you need to think of it this way - if a parent has a request for their child you have to think - are you able to do it for ALL children. If you cannot accommodate a all then don't do it for 1. There is no rocking, no bottle holding etc! You will have multiple kids with multiple ages and you are only 1 person. You will NEED that 2 hours at nap time for a break!

Talk to parents asap. Tell them it is not something you can accommodate and leave it to them to decide if they want to follow your rules or not. They either get on board or they find somewhere else. Good luck to them too because I doubt other providers will rock either.

I actually have a page in my contract about getting ready for child to begin daycare. In there it states no rocking.

[superfun]

I agree with everyone else. I would tell her that is unreasonable. When you agreed to rock her, you didn't know it would take 2 hours of your time each day.

[kindertime]

Ummm... a long list of requests? Sounds like you are in for a long day, every day with this family. I was going to ask in my previous post if they are young parents. Thought better of it, but now I'm asking. Young with too much outside advice? It has been my experience, older parents are more mellow. "Sure, let 'em eat dirt."

Sounds like these parents are going to nick-pick the sh*t out of you if you keep them on.

[ialmostcare]

Gotta love those parents with alll the special requests after signing on!
I am with the others, simply tell the parents that it is an unreasonable request, and if they are not ok with another way, then terminate, this will drive you crazy very quickly, and it is unfair to you and other children in care. Also, I wonder how many providers they asked about that only to be turned down, so they kept quiet about it? For me it is a big red flag, if a parent asked me to rock their child to sleep, the meeting would likely not need to continue (that and a complaint about my rate! )

I have wondered that too. Yeah, it was a LONG list too. And very specific. I often have a hard time saying "no", but I'm definitely going to have to learn to put my foot down from now on.

[ialmostcare]

Going forward you need to think of it this way - if a parent has a request for their child you have to think - are you able to do it for ALL children. If you cannot accommodate a all then don't do it for 1. There is no rocking, no bottle holding etc! You will have multiple kids with multiple ages and you are only 1 person. You will NEED that 2 hours at nap time for a break!

Talk to parents asap. Tell them it is not something you can accommodate and leave it to them to decide if they want to follow your rules or not. They either get on board or they find somewhere else. Good luck to them too because I doubt other providers will rock either.

I actually have a page in my contract about getting ready for child to begin daycare. In there it states no rocking.

That is a great way of thinking about it. Thank you.

[ialmostcare]

Ummm... a long list of requests? Sounds like you are in for a long day, every day with this family. I was going to ask in my previous post if they are young parents. Thought better of it, but now I'm asking. Young with too much outside advice? It has been my experience, older parents are more mellow. "Sure, let 'em eat dirt."

Sounds like these parents are going to nick-pick the sh*t out of you if you keep them on.

Yes, and very specific. Needs one blanket while rocking and another in the actual crib (they provided two). Needs to have bottle at certain temperature. Gave me specific times for everything (nap, lunch, bottle). Wanted to substitute some foods on my menu because she won't like them. Etc... Etc... I was a pretty slack mama compared to this, apparently. Definitely a bit of a change for me! Most of it wasn't a huge deal, but the rocking is... especially when it lasts for so long and twice a day. And then after all that, she only slept 30 minutes! lol.

[torontokids]

Wow. I have yet to encounter a parent like this thankfully. That may be because I am pretty clear from the get go even on my website. I don't even allow more than one nap time per day because we are all on the same schedule. I don't take younger than 1 year though.

You may think that some of these things aren't a big deal but they will become a bigger deal when you have more kids. It also sets you up as taking orders from them as if they are calling the shots. Yes, it is their kid but you need to be clear about what you expect from them. This will become more clear the longer you do this job and the more you read past posts on here.

[33 Daiseys]

no way no how would that fly here. if they want their child rocked three hours a day then they need to stay home and do it themselves.
Take tomorrow, and write an email letting hem know that as of Wednesday, things will run on your schedule, food will be served that you want to serve ( unless of doctor documented allergies), and if they don't like it them you will take it as their notice, which I hope you have a policy for.

[Suzie_Homemaker]

Yes, and very specific. Needs one blanket while rocking and another in the actual crib (they provided two). Needs to have bottle at certain temperature. Gave me specific times for everything (nap, lunch, bottle). Wanted to substitute some foods on my menu because she won't like them. Etc... Etc... I was a pretty slack mama compared to this, apparently. Definitely a bit of a change for me! Most of it wasn't a huge deal, but the rocking is... especially when it lasts for so long and twice a day. And then after all that, she only slept 30 minutes! lol.

I've had a few like this over the year. Normally first time parent. LOL I even have one of letters here still - it say take socks off for nap, no blanket, it go on and on.

I tell parent that I will see what I can do. That it. They sometimes just need to feel a little control. If something out-right impossible, like the rocking, then I'd speak up but the silly things, they just want the comfort of knowing child has familiar routine.

In time, parent will trust judgement but for now, it's a big leap of faith even if you have brilliant references and they checked you out.

Pretty scary for first time parent to hand child over to relative stranger for most of day.

I just gradually educate. Explain that I will make sure child has extra love and attention while they adjust but they are expected to adjust to my routine, not other way around. I ask parent to write a little outline of current routine and for the first couple of week, while child getting used to new carer, new environment, new friends, I am more willing to accommodate the little oddities but then they come into my routine.

Rocking, back rubbing, carrying child all day - these can never be accommodated as can't do this for 6. Likewise meals on my schedule not the child's. This day care not cafe with endless meals for endless different kids schedules. Expecting you to mirror their meal times is not reasonable but it good information to have so if child get grumpy you know likely hungry if your lunch is later time. No meal substitutions either. The child will grow to like or not eat that part of meal. Again, not cafe.

[Crayola kiddies]

Nope no rocking here either ... if they sent you a long list of requests then are just that "requests" which means you can say "no sorry thats not conducive to group care ...if all this needs to be done then you should start interviewing nannies." they need to adjust the childs schedule to your schedule ...this is a typical beginner mistake and i think i made the same one by agreeing to something that i didnt want to carry on with ...you will just have to tell them that you tried the rocking and you didnt realize it was going to be so time intensive and its not going to work for group care so they need to start getting her to sleep without rocking. something tells me you wont have this family for long

[5 Little Monkeys]

I don't think I have ever had a parent request things a certain way but some have mentioned the methods they use at home. Sometimes I am able to do the same here and other times I am not. I only have 4 children so it does make it a bit easier but I don't necessarily want some of those habits! During the first week at daycare, I do try to make it as easy on the child as I can. This allows us to connect really well and makes the child want to come back which is helpful in itself. I haven't had too many issues of this causing bad habits thankfully. I did have one child who would cuddle with me a lot and at pick up time they would fuss A LOT and not want to go home. I had to decrease our cuddling because I felt bad that she wouldn't go to the parents. We still cuddle but not nearly as much.

It's only day one so things will be rocky in the beginning. I would be honest with the parents asap and let them know that because you will have multiple children starting, you are unable to rock them all at the same time. If they are not okay with this they will leave and that is fine, you will fill it with another family!

I have rocked some to sleep when I first started (I had an 8 and 10 month old who napped on different schedules for awhile) It was a hard few months but we all survived lol. It was due to the fact that I was just opening and like you said, wanting to fill spots and keep families happy. I don't necessarily do the "I can't do for 6 so I don't do for 1" logic because all kids are different and need different things. However, if I had all 4 needing to be rocked than no, I wouldn't physically be able to do this. I do send out a form for parents before starting with me and it suggests to wean their child from certain behaviours before starting group care. I have had some who need bottles before bed for example and I do allow this if I am able too but it is something I do suggest to wean.

I'm not black and white LOL....it all depends on what they are requesting and how my other kids are at that time. Do what you need to do to survive!! Some parents are unable to see the big picture until we explain it to them :)

Good luck!!

[Lee-Bee]

Yes, and very specific. Needs one blanket while rocking and another in the actual crib (they provided two). Needs to have bottle at certain temperature. Gave me specific times for everything (nap, lunch, bottle). Wanted to substitute some foods on my menu because she won't like them. Etc... Etc... I was a pretty slack mama compared to this, apparently. Definitely a bit of a change for me! Most of it wasn't a huge deal, but the rocking is... especially when it lasts for so long and twice a day. And then after all that, she only slept 30 minutes! lol.

I know a family where they trained the child to only sleep while rocked. The mom would rock the baby in the rocker, in their dark silent room...dad would sit beside them in a chair and spoon feed mom. Hahahahaha oh, typing it makes me laugh. This is just so unrealistic. The child (through no fault of their own) literally controls every movement in the household because they didn't train him to sleep in a crib on his own. It just spells disaster.

Anyways, you'll need to send a note along saying that you are finding it unrealistic to rock their child for an hour. That they will need to either accept that group care means changes to their preferences or they will need to find another caregiver that is able and willing to cater to their child. Odds are they won't find such a caregiver without finding a private nanny.

Best of luck!! There is always a chance that the baby will adapt and quickly learn to sleep on their own! Set a solid routine, make it multi stepped (turn out lights, close blinds, sing a song, lie in crib, rub back while shhhh-ing. in time shorten it out to just shhhh-ing (no back rubbing) and eventually just plop in crib and go.

There will always be some tears, but you need to set a routine that you can phase out. Rocking to sleep cannot be phased out. Backrubs can be phased out (firm fast rub for a few days, slower rub, then softer rub, then just a still hand on the back etc). Mommy guilt sucks but they need to come to the realization that if mom wants to work outside the home things need to change for the baby. They can help the baby by making changes at home as well...or they can make it harder on everyone by doing things their way and baby having 2 very different types of care.

[flowerchild]

With my first family I made the mistake of agreeing to their nap times. The problem was, they were completely different than my daughter's nap times and who ended up suffering? She did. As well as the other children who were forced to tip toe around always because this child napped when everyone else was awake. After that I decided that anyone else who came in will adjust to our routine, not the other way around.

This child also needed complete darkness and silence to sleep and had, I'm not exaggerating, about a 5 minute window of time where if he wasn't put down at that time, he wouldn't fall asleep he would just scream (and I mean scream) bloody murder. On the odd times that he was asleep and everyone else was too, I would creep around the house like a criminal trying to be quiet. It was SO stressful.


Yes, and very specific. Needs one blanket while rocking and another in the actual crib (they provided two). Needs to have bottle at certain temperature. Gave me specific times for everything (nap, lunch, bottle). Wanted to substitute some foods on my menu because she won't like them. Etc... Etc... I was a pretty slack mama compared to this, apparently. Definitely a bit of a change for me! Most of it wasn't a huge deal, but the rocking is... especially when it lasts for so long and twice a day. And then after all that, she only slept 30 minutes! lol.

Going forward, if anyone hands you a list like this you can just say "thank you. I'll keep all this in consideration as I transition him to our routine here at daycare."

How does one determine that a bottle is a certain temperature? I've always just tested them on my wrist to make sure they weren't too hot...

Good luck! Let us know how it goes!

[flowerchild]

I know a family where they trained the child to only sleep while rocked. The mom would rock the baby in the rocker, in their dark silent room...dad would sit beside them in a chair and spoon feed mom. Hahahahaha oh, typing it makes me laugh. This is just so unrealistic. The child (through no fault of their own) literally controls every movement in the household because they didn't train him to sleep in a crib on his own. It just spells disaster.


Oh my! I can't even imagine.

[bright sparks]

Ummm... a long list of requests? Sounds like you are in for a long day, every day with this family. I was going to ask in my previous post if they are young parents. Thought better of it, but now I'm asking. Young with too much outside advice? It has been my experience, older parents are more mellow. "Sure, let 'em eat dirt."

Sounds like these parents are going to nick-pick the sh*t out of you if you keep them on.

I find that it is a personality type not an age factor....I had both my kids by 20 so call me a little touchy on the stereotyping of young parents 😊 In my nearly ten years of experience, I have seen a really good mix of both. I find those parents who were older when they had their first and tried for a long time are more obsessive and neurotic. Most of my younger parents are much more open minded and collaborative in terms of working with me and taking advice versus a first time parent who is a good 10 years plus older than me who can't handle being told in any certain terms by someone of my age. Not so much an issue now, but when I first started out, my first set of parents when I was 23 with two kids in school were all mid forties. Some were great, and others clearly had initial issues with me "telling" them or advising them on what to do considering I was so young until they realized that I had some experience as a mother that counted for something regardless of my age.

To the OP... My instinct would be to tell them not only the obstacles it presents in a daycare needing to meet to needs of multiple children, but also that it is an important skill set for their child to acquire ASAP, to be able to self sooth and gain independence. Are they the kind of parents you can have a good frank conversation with? I'd talk to them really honestly about this if I was in your shoes explaining that CIO will have to happen at some point so the child learns to settle themselves and sooner rather than later is optimal not only for healthy psychosocial development but it will also be more difficult once the child heads into a resistant stage of development. Make it about them and what's best for them and I think they will be more receptive. Make it clear why it won't work in any daycare, but explain that it's in their best interest. Does she plan to have more kids, because if she does how does she expect to rock two kids, and have any kind of ability to do much else.

Don't worry about how you could have done things differently, just focus on trying to make things work and just accept that if this mother won't budge on the CIO, then termination will be the best thing for you.

[MsBell]

I had a nightmare parent like this once, with a big list of "needs" after signing the contract (including no grapes, because I might not cut them small enough, and no red paint because it doesnt come out in their laundry) I put up with this one way too long, however I did learn something, in our meeting/interview she was in a panic because the daycare she had lined up "fell through", I never asked what happened. Looking back now, I am sure she signed on, then did the long list of requirements too, and that provider was experienced enough to say no way....live and learn

[kindertime]

I find that it is a personality type not an age factor....I had both my kids by 20 so call me a little touchy on the stereotyping of young parents ��

You are absolutely right. It was a broad generalization, I meant no offense. Actually, you made me think about what I wrote. I've had those young parents I spoke about but I think what I should have said was the inexperienced, nervous ones. The ones who read too much of the "new fad" stuff. Of course, I'm sure I'll offend someone with that, too. :) The older parents (over 30ish) that have been here have had more kids, or been around a lot of kids, etc. and new what to expect. With the experience comes the understanding of the consequences of this kind of thing.

[Emma H]

Just buy one of those baby swings for her (there are some super cheap ones on kijiji, in my area at least, going for $20) It worked when I had my 9month old over time they will become comfortable and now she has no issues snoring away in the playpen :)

[bright sparks]

You are absolutely right. It was a broad generalization, I meant no offense. Actually, you made me think about what I wrote. I've had those young parents I spoke about but I think what I should have said was the inexperienced, nervous ones. The ones who read too much of the "new fad" stuff. Of course, I'm sure I'll offend someone with that, too. :) The older parents (over 30ish) that have been here have had more kids, or been around a lot of kids, etc. and new what to expect. With the experience comes the understanding of the consequences of this kind of thing.

I didn't really take offence just wanted to chirp up for all us young moms with little to no guidance who did and do a great job. I blame the Internet lol My sister in Law is in the UK and she is due in two weeks. My mum says she has been out of this world paranoid about every little thing because she keeps on turning to google. One of my families now who are early thirties with first child are always self diagnosing the most ridiculous things via Google lol

[kindertime]

OMG, yes, I have a love/hate relationship with Google....who someday may be our overlords...

sorry, off topic. So, ialmost care, how did it go today?

[Fun&care]

I
You are absolutely right. It was a broad generalization, I meant no offense. Actually, you made me think about what I wrote. I've had those young parents I spoke about but I think what I should have said was the inexperienced, nervous ones. The ones who read too much of the "new fad" stuff. Of course, I'm sure I'll offend someone with that, too. :) The older parents (over 30ish) that have been here have had more kids, or been around a lot of kids, etc. and new what to expect. With the experience comes the understanding of the consequences of this kind of thing.

I was 20 too!!! To this day I have never had clients older than me! So I do sometimes feel they don't take me seriously maybe because of my age, but I do happen to know what I am talking about! Although I was an uptight first parent, I don't think it was an age thing as I have had many, many parents a good decade older than me who are even more neurotic than I ever was!

[ialmostcare]

Hi all,

Sorry for the slow reply. Haven't had a chance to get back on here.

I am still undecided what to do. Spoke to the mom yesterday and she said "we rock her to sleep but you can do whatever works for you, as long as she is not left to cry herself to sleep". So, I might be wrong but I am interpreting that as that I can try some of the methods you all mentioned above... just not put her in the crib and walk out.

She is only here Monday/Wednesday/Friday, so I don't have her today, but will take her tomorrow/until I figure out what to do.

[ialmostcare]

Just buy one of those baby swings for her (there are some super cheap ones on kijiji, in my area at least, going for $20) It worked when I had my 9month old over time they will become comfortable and now she has no issues snoring away in the playpen :)

Would she be too big? My son outgrew his quickly (he was a big baby!) so I'm not sure how long most average-sized children use them? She is almost 10 months and on the smaller side for her age, I'd say.

[kindertime]

I am still undecided what to do. Spoke to the mom yesterday and she said "we rock her to sleep but you can do whatever works for you, as long as she is not left to cry herself to sleep". So, I might be wrong but I am interpreting that as that I can try some of the methods you all mentioned above... just not put her in the crib and walk out.


In my opinion, this is a completely different kettle of fish. I can see that she might be worried that a daycare might just plop the kid down and leave her all day. If that is the case, you should be okay with this. Putting her down to fall asleep doesn't mean you are leaving her alone. Maybe it won't be so bad after all. Think good thoughts.

[Emma H]

Would she be too big? My son outgrew his quickly (he was a big baby!) so I'm not sure how long most average-sized children use them? She is almost 10 months and on the smaller side for her age, I'd say.

The baby I used it for was a big baby too (biggest in my care to this day lol) she was about twice the size of an average baby and it worked fine. Super fussy but the swing worked like a charm until she was more comfortable and that way she was able to interact better after her rest so it sped up the transition process.