Bill 10

[torontokids]

I know there is some confusion about our own school aged children counting in our numbers. I had emailed the ministry and got a response stating that our kids in FDK do not count in our numbers during the school year so this means Sept-June 30th including PD days and school holidays. They do however count in our numbers during the summer months. This comes into effect January 2016

[3rdtimesacharm]

Thank you so much for passing along the info. I had heard this before and I am a little worried how I am going to have to terminate 2 of my dcks for the summer as my 2 oldest will be at home. I wonder why they are allowing the PA day exception and Christmas holidays. Not that I am complaining, but I will then have 7 kids during those times....but that is legal!?

[torontokids]

Your own kids only count in your numbers if they are under 6 yrs old. So it only effects providers with kids who are preschool or in kindergarten.

[3rdtimesacharm]

My two oldest will be in SK and JK so they will still count in my numbers....so me having 7 kids under the age of 5 during PA days and March/Christmas Break is still legal?

[babydom]

Yes it's legal. But not during summer. I know stupid hey.

[3rdtimesacharm]

Yup!! Kinda silly bending their own rules on that one!

[playfelt]

I think they are assuming that often the provider closes during those weeks herself or there will be at least one child in the daycare that goes on a family vacation and not there. It also recognizes that up to Jan 2016 we will have managed just find with 7-8 kids everyday so they are letting providers have them on the occasional day - ie pd, snow, assume sick day, etc.

[Sff]

Quick question - 2 under two means what....2 under 24 months or 36 months? It can be interpreted differently and can't find anything to clarify. This will make a difference for me :(

[babydom]

24mths. New borne, 5mths, 1yr, 18mths,22mths, etc. 24mths, 2yrs 2 and half is above two. So u can have two babies and three 2yr olds

[Wonderwiper]

It all seems very ambiguous and easy to misinterpret!

So for this current summer....your own children in kindergarten could still be legally in care since they were obviously here before Dec 2014, allowing you to 'not count them'. Seems like there are still a lot of technicalities to work out!!

[Polkaroo]

This whole law is flawed and not thought through. It's so frustrating to know they created this mess for "the well being and safety of our kids" when really has nothing to do with that. Sorry I needed to vent apparently lol. I'm closing 2 years earlier then I had planned because of this law. So upsetting.

[mogie care]

Could someone please help me? I am running a before and after school care in my home. I need to know what the laws really are and what I need to do to be with in the law in January. So I have 5 kids under 10 in care right now. I also have 2 kids over 10 and a 13 year old that I have hired. I have 3 children of my own. 9,8 and 4 what do I need to do?? Please advise.:)

[cfred]

Your 4 year old will count in your numbers. Unless I'm mistaken, I believe your own 8 & 9 yr olds do not count in your numbers. So you have 4 spaces left. The age of a child, defined in the bill, is anyone under 13 years of age, so the over 10s, if they're still under 13, will count. That brings you down to 2 spaces. It sounds to me like you'll have to let some people go. Also, be aware that Proclamation is scheduled for August 31, 2015. Any children brought in AFTER December 4th, 2014, will NOT be grandfathered to Jan 2016. They will need to be compliant by Proclamation. This is a bit of a unique situation and I'm not 100% sure if you can even have over 5 under 13 with grandfathering. Typically, we've discussed this surrounding the 2 under 2 and counting your own children. I do understand that your own kids don't count until Jan.

How's that for complicated? Well done Min of Ed! Clear as mud.

[CrazyEight]

When were the children over 10 taken on? The regulations that just came out stated that children ages 10, 11 and 12 who were in care BEFORE Dec. 4/2014 (when the Bill technically became law) are not going to be counted until Aug. 2017, essentially giving them time to "age out" of care without their parents scrambling. We cannot take on any NEW kids ages 10-12, but for the older children that you already had previously, they've made that exception.

Your own children don't count until Jan. 2016, cfred is right. What are the ages of the children under 10 you have in care? As long as you don't have more than 2 under 2, you could technically keep them all until Jan. 2016. Is your 4yo in school? If your 4yo is in FDK and you have less than 2 under 2 (so only one or none) then your 4yo will only count in the summer. So you wouldn't have to let anyone go until next summer break. If your 4yo is NOT in school yet, then they count starting Jan. 1, 2016, meaning you would have to terminate one child by that point.

[Suzie_Homemaker]

Is your 4yo in school? If your 4yo is in FDK and you have less than 2 under 2 (so only one or none) then your 4yo will only count in the summer. So you wouldn't have to let anyone go until next summer break. If your 4yo is NOT in school yet, then they count starting Jan. 1, 2016, meaning you would have to terminate one child by that point.

In this thread (http://www.daycarebear.ca/forum/showthread.php/8111-Bill-10-could-someone-clarify-it-for-me-please), she said :


I run a strictly before and after school care. Right now I have 5 kids under 10 who are all school ages. I also have hired a 13 year old to help. I have 2 other kids who are 11 years old. I also have 3 kids of my own 9,8 and 4 our 4 year old is able to go to school in the fall FDJK however we have decided to keep him home and "homeschool" him for Jk. I want to be within the law, but can't figure out what that is or what it will look like for me come January. Please advise.:)

So although her 4 year old is eligible for school in September, he won't actually be going and will be at home being home schooled. This mean that her 4 year old counts for the summer but would he not be counted after summer too if physically remaining in the house? I thought the exclusion of own kids when at school was based on them being off-site and therefore not actually home for most of the day.

[babydom]

Yes her 4yr old will count as he is NOT in school. He is at home. Homeschooling doesn't count as school

[Wonderwiper]

My understanding is the same as Suzie. School aged children who are enrolled in a publicly funded full time education program do not need to be counted during the school year.

Home schooled children would therefore have to be included in her numbers.

[Suzie_Homemaker]

So I think the breakdown is this :


Right now I have 5 kids under 10 who are all school ages. I also have hired a 13 year old to help. I have 2 other kids who are 11 years old. I also have 3 kids of my own 9,8 and 4 our 4 year old is able to go to school in the fall FDJK however we have decided to keep him home and "homeschool" him for Jk. I want to be within the law, but can't figure out what that is or what it will look like for me come January. Please advise.

Providers own 4 year old will count from the summer time onwards as one of her permitted 5. Providers own 9 year old and 8 year old will not count at all based on ages.
The 13 year old she hired to help, will not count at all but does not allow for any extra places.

So if her 4 year old takes one of her 5 places, she is left with only 4 client places available. Day care children who have had their 13th birthday, not counted.

Eventually she must decide who has those 4 places. She will not be able to keep the 5 day care children under 10 and the 2 11 year old day care children as that totals 7 client (non-family) children when she only has 4 places available.

Is that right?

[babydom]

Yes that's right

[CrazyEight]

If the 4yo isn't in school, then yes, that child would occupy one of the 5 spaces, leaving her with 4 spaces for ages 0-12 years. However, the regulations that were posted a few days ago gave the date of Aug. 2017, two years from now, for children ages 10, 11 and 12 that were already in care prior to Dec. 2014 (Royal Assent) to count.

That is why it makes a difference when the older children were taken on. IF she had the older children (10 years and up) in care since before Dec. 2014, then they will continue to NOT count for 2 more years. She cannot take on any more older children, since anyone taken on from now on falls under the new rules, but she could be allowed to keep the ones she has if she's had them since prior to Dec. of last year.