Feeling Really Used.

[Racing Mom]

Hello everyone, this is my first Form and could really use your help.

I have a new client that has been with me for a month and I am having big issues with communication from the parents.

They have 2 kids and only registered Youngest with me.(oldest in School)

1. When we talked about the contract for the one child I outlined that my hours are 7am-5:30pm in which they were okay with. When they gave the contract back they crossed out the 5:30pm and Wrote 6pm. Being nice I thought okay what's an extra 1/2 hour, so I left it at that.

2. They mentioned that the husband works from home, but once a month he has to go into work and on this day would it be possible to watch both kids(youngest all day and oldest before and after school) and pick up time would be 7pm as the mother takes the train to get home. seeing as it would be once a month I said yes. Well since they have started with me the times he has to go into the office has changed from once a month to 2 times a month to 2 times a week.

So yesterday I wrote a not to them saying that I have changed my pick up hours back to 5:30pm and all the days I'm closed for holidays. Being nice I told her that I will still be available to watch both of the kids when he works at office, pick up being 7pm. The wife seemed unhappy when she read it after pick up and told me she would talk to her husband about the change. So the next day at drop off he told me that they would do there best to pick up at that time but he will be going away for a week and a half in June and that the wife will be picking up at 7pm during that time(he was unsure of the exact days)

My question to you is what should I do in this situation? I was to care for one child not two and my pick up time should not have to change because they need it to Right? Am I being too nice so they think they can tell me what they need and I should do it?

[Lee-Bee]

By not calling them out on changing the hours on your contract you made it clear to them that they are calling the shots, not you. They have no reason to believe that you mean what you say because you haven't been doing what you say.

You'll need to either accept that you are letting them be the boss...or you'll need to make it clear that they are not to follow your rules. This means you have to be firm and NEVER let them call the shots.

It's like working with toddlers. If you tell them 'no' but then let them do as they want you will spend a lot more time and energy trying to establish you mean what you say because they will push harder and harder to test your limits.

If you close at 7pm, you close at 7pm whether dad is out of town or not. They need to change moms work hours that week or have someone else do pick up. They don't get to just tell you when they will be coming late. It's just not an option.

Give a letter of termination unless they sign a new contract (that they haven't made their own changes too). this contract will clearly state your hours and hat there is no exception.

I also suggest you DO NOT have a late fee for this family...as they will take that as you just accepting more money to come when they want. It will not be a punishment for them...it will be permission to continue as is. In your contract state that if they are late ONCE they get a written warning, late TWICE they get a letter of termination of care effective immediately.

[3rdtimesacharm]

Absolutely terminate this family immediately!! Secondly, STICK TO YOUR CONTRACT!! Do not bend any rules for them or anyone!! Your business, YOUR hours!! You made the first mistake by accepting her crossing out your original hours and not saying anything about it. Now they feel you will bend any and all rules to their liking.
Drop them immediately!

[MsBell]

You are being USED! If you really want to keep this disrepectful family, then tell them that pick up is 530, and after that there will be a late fee, also they need to ask if you are able to take the kids that late for a full week (there is no way in hell I would agree to that. I have my own family and needs, and a 12 hour day for a week and a half....and if I agreed they would pay double in advance!) or you could just terminate them, and that is what I would do, and by that, I mean it would be immediate, they would not be back tomorrow!

[Busy ECE mommy]

I wouldn't have let them change the pickup time in the first place. You work 7-530 period. If they wanted an extra 1/2 hour then charge late pickup fees(like $1 a minute) I would never have allowed a 6 pm or 7pm pickup. You close at 530, even if it's only twice a month. We have a life too! You shouldn't be expected to work 12 hr days. A pickup that was 1.5 hrs after closing would be an additional $90 per child at my house- a pretty good deterrent. Keep your contract at 7-530 and put some hefty late fees in place-due in cash that day, or care won't continue until it's paid. If you bend the rules at the start, they will manipulate you all the way along. It's a slippery slope...

[mattsmom]

I think the problem is that even though you had told them what you expect and what your hours are, they have been used to you bending the rules and your expectations for them. So they think that it won't matter...you'll just go along with what they change things to. Now that you've put your foot down, they are having a fit because they aren't getting their way. Which unfortunately happens way too often in this business.

I would suggest seriously thinking about what you are willing to be flexible on and what you're not willing to do anymore. Then let them know and if they don't like it, you can remind them what your original agreement was.

[Dreamalittledream]

My best advice is to pick a closing time and stick to it...no exceptions. No over-time fee will be worth it. I did this too my first couple of years as a favor to a family...it only increased in need and I got more frustrated and could feel myself burning out fast. The child was a dream, but the situation left me feeling used and resentful. Ironically, this was the one family that never went above and beyond in terms of gratitude: Perhaps a paid day off, a Christmas present, or even a thank you. I cannot put in to words the relief I felt on that child's last day when I presented her family with a beautiful photo book of her time here, and passed her on with the knowledge that she was more than well prepped for her new pre-school...such a wonderful feeling to get my life back. I happened to run into this child & her dad a little over a year after her departure...she climbed up in my lap and cuddled in as Dad and I caught up....I was shocked that she remembered me!

[Racing Mom]

Thank you.
I understand were you are all coming from and just wanted to know if I was right for feeling the way I do. I will make sure that in the future I will stick to what I have said and not go over and beyond as it implies that I'm willing to change my life/business for others. :)

[mickyc]

Oh my! Don't ever make exceptions for any family because you will always regret it.

I would tell them the times are not working for you at all!! No more past 530!!!! They will leave but oh well!! Stick to your own rules because if you don't the families certainly won't!!

[sandylynn]

Personally I find it extremely APPALLING that they took YOUR contract and crossed out the pick up time to suite their needs! REALLY??? I would have looked at them and said ...ummm....we seem to have a communication problem here....I didn't give you this contract for your proof reading and perusal....this is my contract and if you wish to adhere to what the contract says...by all means go ahead and sign it....PERIOD....I JUST DON'T GET PEOPLE....THE ENTITLEMENT!...I have had parents before that have this ATTITUDE...like they are doing me a favor coming here...like I owe them the cheapest rates....the longest hours....'GO TO A DAYCARE CENTRE...PAY THEIR RATES AND SEE WHAT YOU GET AWAY WITH.....NOTHING...S O DON'T PULL YOUR CRAP ON ME :)

[Van]

time for you to move on and look for another family that will respect you and your contract and not change it to suit their needs and then take change it again and again - they will miss you but you won't miss them :)

[Fun&care]

I think every provider has to learn early on how to set BOUNDARIES. Its so so so important. Do not work past your current hours. 7-5:30 is long enough already. You are human and you need rest, too. Just because you work from home, does not mean you are capable of working long hours without rest. You will quickly burn out if you arent careful.

But don't feel bad, I did the same thing when I first started out. Let this family know you have put some thought into your current situation and that from now on you close at 5:30 without exception, not even the days has to work from the office. If they do pick up late more than 2 times the third time they will be handed a notice that care is terminated immediately.

Being "nice" doesn't get you anywhere in life if it doesn't also come in YOUR best interest. Doing people favors is like giving little pieces of yourself away; unless they nurture and do something for YOU and you are somehow compensated...sooner or later you will have nothing left.

[5 Little Monkeys]

I have done and still do favours for families but this is after they have been here for awhile and I know whether or not they will truly appreciate me doing so and not take advantage of it. It's also only if I agree to do the favour and know that I won't resent doing so.

A new family changing my contract without first asking would not be welcomed. I am like sandylynn and have a low tolerance for entitled people!! That was incredibly rude on their part!

I would be telling them that you agreed to the changes in the beginning thinking you could make it work but you have found that it doesn't. They can either sign the new, FIRM contract or they are free to choose another daycare. Take control back, lesson learned, move on :) we all make mistakes so don't feel bad!

[Polkaroo]

I would terminate immediately. Your hours are long enough. This is YOUR business, not theirs. Do you have a late pick-up fee mentioned in your contact? I would first tell them that all late pick up will be subject to the late pick-up fee and also give them your notice. If you're having these issues now wait...it will only get worse. Being taken advantage of is the worse so although it's hard at first be harsh, kind and fair to yourself. There are wonderful parents out there, you don't need to make your day miserable and extremely long to please them. If you stick to your contract so will your parents. My hrs are from 7:30-5:00 and I charge $1/minute. Good luck! Keep us posted.

[mickyc]

Definitely keep us posted!

[Racing Mom]

I gave them the Termination Letter on Friday to the father at pick-up and he stood in my doorway with his two kids and one of mine along with my husband and fought with be about the situation... saying that I'm no being fare and we should sit down and talk more on the situation.
He continued on for about 20min trying to sell me, telling me that they can change the times to work for me and that they will pay late fees and so on.

It mad me so mad by his tone and words towards me that I said Enough this is the way its going to be... you are Terminated and please leave!!

I feel so much better about my decision and Thank you for the support :)

[3rdtimesacharm]

Wow! Good for you and your husband to stand up and put your foot down! I hope you can breath a sigh of relief knowing how you have dodged the bullet on this using and abusing family!! Best of luck to you and hoping you stick to your contract and never bend rules for anybody. I have been there myself, bent the rules for a family, gave them extended late pick up at no charge, yet they turned into monsters the ONE time I ask for a late drop off because I was 9 months pregnant and had to have a prenatal checkup late minute due to complications. They threw my own contract in my face and demanded that I be available at 7am because I was supposed to provide 4 weeks notice due to appointments/personal days off. They were terminated that afternoon.
People will use and abuse as it suits them and yet, if the tables were turned, they are very unlikely to reciprocate the generosity.

[Suzie_Homemaker]

So you did immediate termination or notice of termination?

Sounds like immediate where he was told to go. Did your contact cover immediate term for being a what reason you gave or are you in breach of contract by backing out to what you agreed to, without proper notice. What reason do you have in contract for immediate term and which one used for this person? Changing mind, wanting different hours, not in breach of signed agreement, it was just request which was denied.

You can't just up and end a contact because they are annoying/disrespectful/constantly asking for different hours, just like they can't. You can hold them to signed agreement and say no to extra request and if that not suit them, they can give notice. Or you can give notice if not working.

If a dayhome parent decided they did not want you any more, and just didn't give notice or show up, you could sue them. If you decide you don't want them any more and just didn't give notice, they can sue you.

I would like know if you gave notice or not. And if not, how your contact worded to allow immed term for these things.

[sandylynn]

And it is for a lot of reasons that....I DON'T HAVE A CONTRACT!....I lay out my rules during interview.....don't like it....OUT! I had a family pull their nonsense on my once....I waited until Friday morning after they paid....when they came for pick up....that's when I said...by by....no monies owed....

[3rdtimesacharm]

And it is for a lot of reasons that....I DON'T HAVE A CONTRACT!....I lay out my rules during interview.....don't like it....OUT! I had a family pull their nonsense on my once....I waited until Friday morning after they paid....when they came for pick up....that's when I said...by by....no monies owed....

You don't have a contract!?! The risks of NOT having a contract far outweighs that of having one imo.

[Dreamalittledream]

You don't have a contract!?! The risks of NOT having a contract far outweighs that of having one imo.
Haha...I swear I heard a collective 'gasp' when I read "...I don't have a contract....";)

[5 Little Monkeys]

Haha, I thought the same dreamalittledream!!

My contract has definitely helped me FAR more than it's bit me in the butt!! I couldn't imagine working without one!

[bright sparks]

And it is for a lot of reasons that....I DON'T HAVE A CONTRACT!....I lay out my rules during interview.....don't like it....OUT! I had a family pull their nonsense on my once....I waited until Friday morning after they paid....when they came for pick up....that's when I said...by by....no monies owed....

But if you had a contract in the first place, in all likelihood, these people would pay you on time as they would be held to a signed agreement to do so. Because it is a verbal agreement, you will always get those parents who won't take your business as seriously and will not follow what you have asked of them. A written contract would eliminate far more issues that arise as a result of having no contract and working on verbal info only.

[sandylynn]

What is the biggest benefit in everyone's opinion....of having a contract .....

[mickyc]

No contract!! Omg!! You have nothing legally binding. I used to work in the legal field and trust me you need a contract for everything in life!

[babydom]

Sandylynn what if u provide care then come fri they don't pay? They run leave vanish. What can u do??? U can't go to court u can't do anything. Nothing was written or signed it's ur word against theirs. U could not get paid cuz there is nothing u can do if they didn't sign anything. What if they call cas and say u are unqualified say u would offer these hrs for them and this pay but now u are demanding this pay and sayin these hrs. What would u do? What can u do? Nothing. Word against word is a VERY dangerous game to play. I feel so much safer with signatures! Just my two cents. To each their own :)

[kindertime]

What is the biggest benefit in everyone's opinion....of having a contract .....

I think having a contract lends itself more if you are trying to work at this as a professional, as a business owner. I don't know if you look at yourself like that or not. If you choose to look after kids for fun and some extra cash, you may not want to impose a bunch of your 'rules' on those parents. If you are trying to stay casual, maybe you'll never want one.

But I completely agree with everyone else, though. I was one who gasped. A contract can only protect you as far as what's in it, but at least you have that. It outlines everone's responsibilities. What is expected of both parties and what is the consequence if those conditions are not met. When I worked as a nanny I never had a contract, never thought about it. But when I started my business, I made a contract.

And on a side note, as far as having an end date for the contract, IMO it helps when you have a family you don't want to keep anymore but that you can't terminate because they haven't done anything wrong. All you do is not renew. The contract is done and you move on.

[Neen]

It's obvious you are a good person and you want to help out. Unfortunately when you give an inch some parents will take a mile! Stick to your contract and refer back to it often so they realize they've agreed to your terms. It's not personal, its business.

[sandylynn]

I understand what everyone is saying...if someone leaves without paying for the week....I losse....My parents pay Monday morning for the current week....if they don't come with the money....on Monday morning....they have til Monday night...no money....no daycare...The MOST I will ever lose is 1 day pay....As far as going to small claims court...wouldn't do it for 1 day pay....I have my parents sign prescription/medication, in case of emergency forms etc. I just don't have a long contract per se....

[3rdtimesacharm]

But what about when a client decides they want to send child to a daycare centre just before they start school. The pay on monday for that week, then, on Friday afternoon they say, "oh, btw, this is dck's last day, he starts at a new place on Monday! So Long!". Well, you are now scrambelling to find a replacement to start asap as your income has suddenly been reduced by at least 20%.
If they were on a contract, they would be obligated to provide you with at least 2-3 weeks notice to terminate the agreement. Thus, allowing you a few weeks to start a new child.

[sandylynn]

yes I do hear what you are saying thirdtimesacharm ..I am very grateful that I am in a position that should this happen.....(someone leaves with no notice)....I won't lose any sleep over it....I do this because I love children and it fills my day with amazing memories....I am ok having to take time to replace a lost one....honestly....i f I DON'T want a particular family coming to my home anymore for whatever reason...I DON'T want to have to put up with their nonsense for another say "3" weeks because of a legal bind...I like it better this way....I owe them nothing....and they owe me nothing....In all the time I have been doing this...it may have happened once! :)

[Suzie_Homemaker]

What is the biggest benefit in everyone's opinion....of having a contract .....

There is no chance of misunderstanding.
Parent is clear what service is being provided, when and for how much.
No dispute about closed days, stat days, vacations days, sick days.
Paid notice period
Transparency
Everyone knows where stand on every situation and not have to rely on memory.
Verbal is okay for 10 mins after said but in 3 weeks time or 3 months time, parent not remember all that said verbally.
No contract means can't go back and show client that they agreed to two weeks off (paid or not), or they agreed not to bring sick kids, or show up early or pick up on time or late fees.
Can't prove anything.
Also, sometimes things misunderstood. Parent thinks statement mean one thing. Provider really mean something else. Contract gives exact details and if need be, shows third party (Judge) exactly what was agreed.

Contract might be pain to deal with but first time you need it, so worthwhile. Everyone think contract not needed but when things go wrong, they very worthwhile for all.

[Suzie_Homemaker]

What is the biggest benefit in everyone's opinion....of having a contract .....

What is the biggest benefit in not having one?

Only one I see, is that if someone isn't good fit, that provider can get rid of them instantly as parent can't prove what agreement was. But provider can get rid of parent anyway if contract written properly.

[mickyc]

Contract is a full set of rules in writing. Nothing is missed or forgotten. There is no playing dumb after the fact because it is all in black and white- everyone has agreed!

I have had parents say my contract is too strict - no problem - if you don't like it I don't want you as a family. The one I just signed on for September said my contract was perfect and that's exactly what kind of provider she was looking for. It also cuts down on my interview as they have already read it and often come with next to no questions as it is already all written out!

[mattsmom]

Contract is a full set of rules in writing. Nothing is missed or forgotten. There is no playing dumb after the fact because it is all in black and white- everyone has agreed!

I have had parents say my contract is too strict - no problem - if you don't like it I don't want you as a family. The one I just signed on for September said my contract was perfect and that's exactly what kind of provider she was looking for. It also cuts down on my interview as they have already read it and often come with next to no questions as it is already all written out!

I'm the same. When someone wants to schedule an interview, I send them a copy of my contract first, so they know what they are getting into. If they don't like the terms, they don't come. I'm not willing to negotiate anything in the contract or nickel and dime with someone.

I've dealt with too many families in the past that like to make up their own rules as they go along or try to get me to change my hours or policies. At least I know that when they sign, they agree to all terms and I can refer back to it with them if I have to.