Venting and advice needed.

[daycarelady2]

Hey guys.
So I have run an at home daycare for almost three years. I have a family that I just told that come September I won't be able to provide after school care for her children. One is already coming after school and the other is full time here. I'm afraid I've made the mom mad at me for saying this. And I already explained that I'm just not sure what I could charge to make it worth it(I worded it better than that to her) surely she must understand that I would be saving two full time spots to accommodate her two kids and that would be ridiculous and I would have to charge her a crazy amount when she only used about two hours tops. I guess I'm afraid she'll pull her kids ASAP but I doubt that would happen, I did offer to pass along other home providers names and numbers but there aren't many here where we live. Like I get that she's probably frustrated but this is how I make my income. What do you guys charge for after school care? I said I could try and see if I can arrange another parent to pick up by the time they got off the bus but I feel like that is going to be hard to do. I'm just nervous. It's much easier when you work in a centre and you're just following the centres rules. Here I feel like sometimes they treat me like my rules are negotiable because I'm just me, you know?
Also another question I have is if you have older children how do you handle them having a friend over after school or on a pa day? Because technically I would be over my numbers but I'm not getting paid for that kid having a play day.

[mickyc]

So this school child is taking away from your full time numbers allowed? I would just tell mom if she wants to maintain her child's space that she needs to pay for a full time spot no matter on what hours she uses. I don't take part time. If they want a spot they pay full rate for it. You have to take your heart out of your business. You need x amount everyday to make a living so therefore if they want it they pay. Don't worry about it if they leave. This is what you have to offer and that's it.

I don't know what you are allowed in your area for number of kids but those numbers apply to your whole house regardless of you getting paid. So if you run at the max then any other kids in the whole house regardless of number of adults etc would put you over.

[daycarelady2]

Thanks for the response. I definitely need to take my heart out of it. Plus I worry too much what people think of me lol

Well that's sucky....what does that mean my kids can't have play dates until their 16? Lol

[CrazyEight]

If you're in Ontario, then if you're at the max amount of allowed kids, your own won't be able to have friends over until those friends are 13. Up until Bill 10 went through, it was age 10, but it's always been a rule that most people ignored or pretended they didn't know. It doesn't matter if you're getting paid to watch the child or not, you are legally responsible for that child if they are in your home without their parent present, so they count in your daycare numbers. An additional adult (like having your husband home, for example) doesn't matter, it is the max number of kids on the premises at one time that is the issue.

I agree, it's stupid, but it's the law.

[daycarelady2]

Yeah I am in ontario. That's crappy but oh well. I guess my son could go to play dates he just couldn't have one here during business hours.

This whole bill 10 thing is so dumb, it's really frustrating. It becomes law January 2016 right? I may have to raise my fees then. I currently charge 30 a day. What do others charge?
As of January 2016 I'll have four kids (one in school all day) plus my own two (mine will be 4 and 7 then) will I be over or safe with my numbers?

[Suzie_Homemaker]

I don't take BAS for this reason. Here in PEI we have 5 places. I can't have 3 BAS kids at $15 vs 3 FT kids at $35. That's a loss of $60 a day to me. If someone desperately wanted to keep their child here after they went to school, then they would have to pay the $35.

And yes, when my sons were little, it did mean no friends after school because of the ratios. My son had to go to his friends but they could not come here if day care hours. We ended up having houseful at weekends to make up for it.

[CrazyEight]

Your own kids under age 6 don't count until Jan. 2016, but any new daycare kids taken on since Dec. 4, 2014 (the day the Bill received Royal Assent, essentially passing third vote and becoming law) need to count in the new ratios. For example, if you had 3 under age 2 since November, you'd be allowed to keep all three, providing at least one turned 2 by Jan. 2016. But if you had 2 under 2 and were asked tomorrow to take on a third under 2, you couldn't, because the Bill is technically in place now. Jan. 2016 is the end of the "grandfathering" phase, allowing providers who were already operating time for kids to age and others to get shuffled around so that we're all in line by that date.

So assuming you haven't taken on any new kids since Dec. 2014, you're fine to run as-is until Jan. 2016. As to whether you'll be legal then, that depends on your dckids' ages. Your own 7yo won't count, ever, so if you have 4 dckids and your own 4yo you're fine, assuming you have no more than 2 under 2.

Is your 4yo in school? There is a clause in the Bill for not counting our own kids under 6 IF they are in full-day kindergarten and IF you have LESS than 2 under 2. So providers have a choice - have their 4 and 5yo kids count whenever they're home from school (before and after, pa days, sick days, summer, etc) and be allowed 2 under 2, OR have their own 4 and 5yo's NOT count when they are home during the school year but only be allowed ONE child under age 2. It is further complicated by the fact that that regulation hasn't been spelled out yet - the Bill only says that our own 4 and 5yo's won't count "during the school calendar" but does not mention specifics. Most assume that to mean they will only count during the summer holidays, but the regulation COULD specify that they are only exempt from our numbers on regular school days, for before and after. They could still count on PA days, sick days, xmas holidays, spring break, etc. We won't know until they decide to write out the specific regulation, and there is no word on when that will be.

So it's confusing as hell, and ridiculous, but with the fines being raised to $250,000 for being over in numbers, it's not a risk I'd advise taking. I am personally raising rates, only accepting full-time, and getting rid of sick days and other leniencies. They pay for a spot, regardless of whether or not they attend, end of story. I have to, as my youngest is only 2.5 and I am expecting this summer, so will only be allowed 3 dckids.

Any questions, just ask, I hope I've explained it somewhat clearly. Hard when the law is as clear as mud!!

[daycarelady2]

I think I get it, and I think I'll be okay?? :/ it's so hard to understand. I will probably have to raise my rates to make up for loosing spaces which sucks for parents.

So in January 2016 I will have my 7yr old in school, my 4yr old in school. I will then be watching a 4yr old(in school all day) a 3 year old and two 2 yr olds. But all this is said hypothetically I suppose because I technically don't know who I will still have by 2016 as things can change

[CrazyEight]

With those numbers, yes, you'd be fine.

[daycarelady2]

Phew! Thanks for all of your help crazyeight!! I really appreciate it. You've definitely put me at ease. I can't believe how stupid I feel for just hearing about bill 10. I may raise my rates by $5.00 come January 1, 2016. Which I think would be fair? Then parents would be paying $35.00 a day.

I have another question too. I get that the 'ministry' can come and inspect your home. But for one I never answer the door when home doing daycare. My door stays locked. And is only open for parent drop offs/pick ups. And even if by chance I did answer the door so many creepy stuff happens I would be very cautious and skeptical at just letting someone who announced they worked for the 'ministry' into my home, what if was said under a rouse and it was actually a home invader?? Yes I watch too much criminal minds lol.

[sandylynn]

So I guess if you see your friend over at the park, you have your 5 kids and say she has 3..you are supposed to ignore each other.

[CrazyEight]

The law covers HOME property only. Public places are just that, public places. If you want to have your friend and her daycare kids come to your house, you can only have 5 kids total. But there's no way to ban providers from public places like parks, libraries, playgroups, etc.

[CrazyEight]

Daycarelady, this has apparently come up with inspectors a few times. They all carry photo ID, and have no problem with you calling the Ministry of Education to verify that they are who they say they are. They will also apparently always be in pairs. I have this from numerous providers on various forums who have had inspections recently. They understand that we have other peoples' children in our care and are therefore extremely cautious when and if we answer the door.

[Van]

the inspectors are really nice and just doing their jobs
just make sure your ratio is correct and you get on fine with them
we get inspected all the time in BC and we are use to them

[daycarelady2]

Okay that was basically my question. Wondered if I happened to answer the door if I could call somewhere to confirm first.
Also, do I get in big trouble for not answering the door. Like I said in my earlier post I NEVER answer the door during daycare hours :/

Has anyone had inspectors come to their home yet in ontario? I'm assuming once bill 10 is put into place then we will start seeing a lot more investigations

[babydom]

I'm also curious if any inspectors have been in ont? Toronto, Ottawa?

[CrazyEight]

On one of the facebook groups I am a part of - I want to say Families and Providers Against Bill 143 - (143 was the original name of Bill 10) but I could be wrong - a provider said she was inspected. She was in a smaller city...Fergus, I think? She said they told her they will always be in pairs, and even that one will always be a woman. They had ID, gave her the number to call, which was automated in the beginning (as in, "you have reached the Ministry of Education, please select from the following options" kind of thing, so she knew that really WAS who she was calling) and apparently they completely understood waiting outside while she called and confirmed their IDs. Then they stood in her front hall and asked for her daycare "schedule." Apparently she does mostly part-time care, so had 9 kids enrolled, but never more than 5 at a time, so it was complicated to explain. She already had a schedule written up to keep them all straight, but her suggestion to the rest of us was to have a sheet typed up, heck even posted at your front door, with the kids' names, ages, emergency numbers, allergies, etc, and also full-time/part-time and hours, so it is easy to grab and show to the inspectors. From what I remember, she invited them to come in and look around, but she said they didn't look like they felt the need to leave her front hall until she invited them. They said they had been in a few towns in the area.

The inspector did say that ignorance about the Bill is not an excuse. As in, this is our career, and it is our responsibility to know the rules and follow them.

She said they were very nice, polite and respectful. She answered everyone's questions about it - I wish I could remember for sure what group it was! If I find it, I'll post more.

[Daycarefriend]

Hi Ladies,

I'm new to this forum stuff so forgive me if I am not in the proper thread. It seems like this is the only recent conversation?? Anyway, I was wondering what other daycare providers thoughts are on allowing parents to go into your house at pick up (while you are all outside) and use your bathroom. I personally do not like it, but I was wondering how others felt about it.

Love to hear your thoughts!

[Suzie_Homemaker]

So I guess if you see your friend over at the park, you have your 5 kids and say she has 3..you are supposed to ignore each other.

No. Outside is outside. You can have a play date in public place. Lot of carer's here all meet up at the park. What you can't do is merge in one house for a play date or even for lunch. That would take you over numbers.

[Suzie_Homemaker]

Hi Ladies,

I'm new to this forum stuff so forgive me if I am not in the proper thread. It seems like this is the only recent conversation?? Anyway, I was wondering what other daycare providers thoughts are on allowing parents to go into your house at pick up (while you are all outside) and use your bathroom. I personally do not like it, but I was wondering how others felt about it.

Love to hear your thoughts!

You should start own thread as your comment will likely get lost in this conversation.

I don't allow parents into my house if I am not there. If we are outside at pick up time, I bring out all their bags, coats, belongings and parents can pick up from outside. I also don't allow parents to use my washroom routinely. Sure, there been times a parent has asked but it's the exception not the rule - I would not allow if we were outside.

I tend to lock my house if we are outside and then we come out back door which is nearer my play area.

[babydom]

Hi daycarefriend. If u look under all the forum subjects pick a subject and then click on it. Then click on post new thread. Then u can ask ur question there. Welcome to the forums!! I let my parents use my house/bathroom. It's like a 2nd home to them and their kids. I'd feel bad if they'd have to gather up the kids quick to run home to use the bathroom. I have one parent that takes over an hr to get home. I'd feel bad if she ran to the restaurant to use a bathrm when my house is right here. It's not that they are going to snoop or steal. They'll just pee and come back out. Hahah :)

[pink]

My business is not worth $250,00.00 this bill has not been sitting right with me from the beginning. There is a couple of licensed daycare in my neighborhood. It's super rare that I will have a child over 2 unless they are siblings. I have been looking for an Administrative position now for the last 6 months. My plan is to hand-over my daycare to my daughter-in-law who resides with me. They will be so many parents without home daycare, they is a lot of babies in our neighborhood.