Playdates!

[babydom]

I know with Bill 10 rules you are not allowed to have play dates IN your home if there is over five kids in the house. If one caregiver has two kids and u have three then that's ok because you can only have five per house regardless of adults present.

So my question is how about outside in my fenched in backyard? Or out on my driveway with ride on toys? What if I have five then another caregiver comes to play OUTSIDE either front or back, is that OK??? Anyone know?? Thanks!!:)

[3rdtimesacharm]

I would say this would not be allowed as it is still technically on your property.

[5 Little Monkeys]

I think if it's a public place, than you're fine.

Backyard and driveway are yours, so private land, I'm guessing it's not allowed. So silly IMO but....

[babydom]

Ok. I was thinking not backyard because it is more secluded and fenched in. But i was hoping the front was ok, just out in the open on the front lawn and driveway. I guess to the park we go :) thanks ladies

Then I think....what if I have five and one mom comes to pick up her child but has her older school age child (under 13yrs) with her...now there's six kids on my driveway or in my front door for five mintues, I'll get in trouble! Haha. So many scenarios I think about and say what if, is this ok? Think I'm driving myself batty. Haha

[5 Little Monkeys]

I've never really given much thought to play dates but there have been times I've been over then. I also prefer to do interviews during the day so I imagine that makes me over too....whoops!!

A parent picking up won't put you over :)

[innisfildaycare]

That is absolutely ridiculous. So what is the difference between having a childs birthday on a Saturday in my home with 13 children? Is it because they are not paying for care?? They are at my home during non-work hours? So I have 5 kids during the week, and my sister drops by with her two kids for a visit, I should kick them out? Thats silly..Im not sure they would go that far as to fine a daycare provider for that, or if another provider comes over for a play date. You are in your home with your own 5 daycare children, as long as you follow the rule with 5 kids at any given time by contracts under your care only, I think visitors are allowed as they are just that, visitors. The children coming for a play date with another provider are just visting, you are not breaking the law, you have your required amount of children in care. I think it would be different, if my sister came over every day to run the daycare, and then I took on 10 kids (5 per each), just because there are two of us, that is not allowed. As far as going on on the drive way and riding bikes up and down the sidewalk, I really cant see that being a problem because that would just be plain silly. I havent re-opened my daycare yet, but everyday after I have my boys friends over playing hockey in my basement, there are well over 5 boys that do not belong to me. Most days, I have over 7 kids (not icluding my own two) over all at once.
Sorry, I hope I am not coming across as ignorant or oblivious to Bill 10 and I also have no intention of offending anyone. My point in all of this, is that they are not being 100% clear with all of the rules and mostly seem to be making up answers along the way as providers call and ask. The print out I have of bill 10, no where states that I can not have visitors in my home during daycare hours. Mind you I havent had the time to sit and go over every little detail!

[babydom]

I called the Childcare Ministry to get clarification there's only allowed five children under the age of 10 now but under 13 in January in your care allowed on the premises so you cannot have a play date in your house, back of your house or the front of your house if the children's parents are not there. If a sister or friend comes over with kids and remains with their kids they can stay for a play date because those kids are not in your care their parent is present but if the caregiver comes over with five kids and you have five then you're over and subject to a fine because those other caregivers five kids parents are not present and are in care of someone else. hope this clears it up... it did for me

[3rdtimesacharm]

But this has always been the case, before Bill 10. We have always been restricted to 5 daycare kids, and playdates were still illegal if that put us over our numbers.

[babydom]

I guess no one never knew?? I didn't. The Orleans, ont daycare didn't know when one little drowned. I knew never over 5 and I knew no more then 5 in the house workin regardless of adults, like me and my husband can't have ten kids total but never knew about play dates. Now I do. :)

[innisfildaycare]

Thank god providers in my area want nothing to do with each other anyways! lol Does anyone know where I can get the info in writing as oppose to someone claiming the rules over the phone? Id be curious to see how they word it? As far as I would be concerned, I am following the rules with 5 kids in my care. Other children are just visitors regardless whether or not they are with their parents or another provider, I am not their provider.

[kindertime]

Bill 10


http://www.ontla.on.ca/web/bills/bills_detail.do?loca le=en&BillID=3002

[kindertime]

I tried to read this bill a while ago, just for fun. I am very familiar with the laws in Que so I was curious about Bill 10 for Ontario. I have to say, geepers! This is one time I'm glad I'm in Que. Our laws are a lot more straightforwardly written. There's a lot of referring to other sections and so it's so confusing.

Just a sample;

Exception re unlicensed child care

(9) If, on the day that the Child Care Modernization Act, 2014 receives Royal Assent, a child care provider provides child care for children at a premises in the circumstances described in subparagraphs 2 i and ii of subsection (3), then until the date mentioned in subsection (10), subparagraph 2 iii of subsection (3) and subsection (5) do not apply to the person in respect of those children.


Good luck

[babydom]

I can not read that bill. It frustrates me to no end!! I'm just going to follow what mr guy told me on the phone. I rather be safe then risk a 200,000$ fine!

[Spixie33]

Providers have not been allowed get-togethers for a long time. I think it stemmed from the accident in the Ottawa area where there were 5 providers and a child drowned in someone's backyard.

The only way to get together is to go for a walk, go to the park or splash pad or Early Years Centre and anywhere else that is not on private property.

I have other providers that I meet at the park sometimes and it is nice to be able to talk to an adult and compare procedures and crafts, etc.

[Lee-Bee]

That is absolutely ridiculous. So what is the difference between having a childs birthday on a Saturday in my home with 13 children? Is it because they are not paying for care?? They are at my home during non-work hours? So I have 5 kids during the week, and my sister drops by with her two kids for a visit, I should kick them out? Thats silly..Im not sure they would go that far as to fine a daycare provider for that, or if another provider comes over for a play date. You are in your home with your own 5 daycare children, as long as you follow the rule with 5 kids at any given time by contracts under your care only, I think visitors are allowed as they are just that, visitors. The children coming for a play date with another provider are just visting, you are not breaking the law, you have your required amount of children in care. I think it would be different, if my sister came over every day to run the daycare, and then I took on 10 kids (5 per each), just because there are two of us, that is not allowed. As far as going on on the drive way and riding bikes up and down the sidewalk, I really cant see that being a problem because that would just be plain silly. I havent re-opened my daycare yet, but everyday after I have my boys friends over playing hockey in my basement, there are well over 5 boys that do not belong to me. Most days, I have over 7 kids (not icluding my own two) over all at once.
Sorry, I hope I am not coming across as ignorant or oblivious to Bill 10 and I also have no intention of offending anyone. My point in all of this, is that they are not being 100% clear with all of the rules and mostly seem to be making up answers along the way as providers call and ask. The print out I have of bill 10, no where states that I can not have visitors in my home during daycare hours. Mind you I havent had the time to sit and go over every little detail!

The no playdates with other providers has been in place for many years it is not new with Bill 10. It is against the law and has been for many years. Like many parts of the daycare laws it may not be known by all...but ignorance does not equal forgiveness. Like in any profession it is our duty to be aware of the laws we are governed by, like them or not, whether they make sense or not.

A parent doing pick up with other siblings is in charge of the children and they do not count in our numbers because their parent remains on premise. This would be the same for a relative visiting with their children. This is why doing an interview with a family with their children present during daycare hours is allowable...their parent is in charge of their child, not you. Being a caregiver with 5 children visiting on a playdate is different as that caregiver is also governed by the provincial laws forbidding them from being under one roof with more than 5 daycare children.

[5 Little Monkeys]

Hmm...I'm more confused now lol

I was told by a person in dc offices that even if my husband stayed home with our child as a sahd, I'd still only be allowed 3 dck's as it's 4 per house. So why is that different than a parent coming over for a play date?

Like I said, I've done play dates before and even though I've never thought or worried about it, I now wonder if that puts me over??

[babydom]

Yes 5LM u can't do play dates anymore if it puts u over five :( even if ur hubby stays home your child still counts as he is yours and under your roof

[5 Little Monkeys]

Oh I misunderstood. I thought it was saying that a parent or family member could bring their child over for a play date and the dcprovider would still be legal (as long as other parent stayed) but if another dcp brought her dck's, it was illegal

[playfelt]

A parent in charge of their own children can take them anywhere they want to including your house BUT you can only be in charge of 5 children that are not with their parent - ie you as the provider are acting as their parent. Plus of course as of right now you have your own children too. The issue is that when another provider comes over those children are not with a parent and therefore count in your allowable 5 - even if it makes no sense that is the law. What it means is two providers getting together to share a music teacher or magician, etc is illegal even though many do it. After the incident in Ottawa we got information from the ministry which clarified the rules - well actually to the effect of these have always been the rules and now we are going to enforce them.

[Suzie_Homemaker]

This is same in PEI. We can have play dates at a public park, at a library, but not in provider home if results in total number of children being more than one provider can watch.

Our own children cannot have play dates after school because their friend also counts in number.

If we want shared music class with another provider, we must hire/rent a room not in our home, so I suppose we could also do same for play date with another provider. I just not thought about that before.

In a dayhome, regardless of situation, only child who is accompanies by their parent, and who is not part of the day care and who doesn't live here and who isn't regularly here, is allowed - so new client for interview would be okay, phase in for short couple of hours with parent stay is okay, relatives visiting with their children is okay.

But

Play dates with other carer not okay. Relatives visiting with their children and the adults going off for the day and leaving children with us is not allowed, phase in were parent leaves child is not allowed unless child whose place they taking already left.

[babydom]

That's right 5LM. I think your child still counts even if dad is home because he loves there and is your, the provider too. That's what in thinking. Lol

[AmandaKDT]

Hmm...I'm more confused now lol

I was told by a person in dc offices that even if my husband stayed home with our child as a sahd, I'd still only be allowed 3 dck's as it's 4 per house. So why is that different than a parent coming over for a play date?

Like I said, I've done play dates before and even though I've never thought or worried about it, I now wonder if that puts me over??

In Manitoba the occasional playdate would probably be okay, as far as I know there is no actual law about it. With being licensed I asked my coordinator about friends coming to visit and she said it was okay as long as it isn't an everyday thing and the parent is there with their child (and that adult is never left alone with the children). I think it is kind of a grey area. But I don't ever do playdates with any other daycare provider at my house, just have a friend or a neighbour come for a visit with their child every once and awhile. It is probably best just to use your good judgment, and having another daycare coming to your property with 4 to 6 other kids probably isn't a wise decision.

But, yes, if you have your own child you have to include them in your numbers even if your husband is home. That is absolutely the case.

[5 Little Monkeys]

Yes, I knew about our own child counting in the numbers. I had called awhile ago and asked because financially, it makes more sense for me to keep working and my husband to take parental leave. However, it doesn't work because I'd only be allowed 3 instead of 4 kids. It doesn't matter that he would be home 24/7, that my dc is completely separate from our living space or even if he took our child to his parents house during the day. Seems so silly to me that it's not allowed but play dates with other parents is "okay". Oh well, the law is the law I guess!

As for my dc play dates, they have always been with past parents and their children. I had a provider near me suggest we get together but I think we're going to do it at a nearby playground.

[sandylynn]

This is sooooo RIDICULOUS! I guarantee a lot of people will not be following this because they don't know about it!!!!

[babydom]

I wanted to ask but forgot....what if I'm watching my seven nieces and nephews on Saturday? Do the over five only apply from mon to fri? Wondering??!!

[sandylynn]

What you do on your days off is your business....that cannot possibly count...if so...I'd tell them to stuff it! People on this forum are taking this thread WAY TOO FAR.....chillax people....

[babydom]

It's hard to chillax when the fine can go up to 200,000$. That's an amount that I just can't play around with. U may be safe in your area, but I know in my area there are ALOT of people traffic and staring people. I am just trying to cover my ass if anyone were to call on me. It takes just ONE call to send someone to my house!

[sandylynn]

I am strictly speaking of Saturday and sunday....nothing to do with daycare....you can have as many family over as you want!!!!

[5 Little Monkeys]

I wanted to ask but forgot....what if I'm watching my seven nieces and nephews on Saturday? Do the over five only apply from mon to fri? Wondering??!!

You are fine on your days and evenings off. Idk about where you are but here in MB you could even babysit 10 children during your evenings and weekends off and that is legal.....makes complete sense hey! Lol

[bright sparks]

You are fine on your days and evenings off. Idk about where you are but here in MB you could even babysit 10 children during your evenings and weekends off and that is legal.....makes complete sense hey! Lol

Same here in ON...very loose laws on babysitting. Also daycare services within a gym are exempt from the day nurseries act. I reported one years ago and was told by the authorities that they could not step in unless physical harm was caused AND the parent of that child filed a written complaint. There were over 30 kids, separated into two rooms roughly 10years and over in one room and the other youngsters in an adjacent room with one adult walking inbetween the two areas. My kids were 4 and 5 at the time and I was mortified at what I saw. DNA is definitely inadequate on a grand scale....shame bill 10 is all about profit not safety.

[AmandaKDT]

Yes, I knew about our own child counting in the numbers. I had called awhile ago and asked because financially, it makes more sense for me to keep working and my husband to take parental leave. However, it doesn't work because I'd only be allowed 3 instead of 4 kids. It doesn't matter that he would be home 24/7, that my dc is completely separate from our living space or even if he took our child to his parents house during the day. Seems so silly to me that it's not allowed but play dates with other parents is "okay". Oh well, the law is the law I guess!

As for my dc play dates, they have always been with past parents and their children. I had a provider near me suggest we get together but I think we're going to do it at a nearby playground.

This is one of the reasons that I got licensed, It didn't work financially for me to only be allowed 4 kids total. For me, it would have meant only having 2 daycare kids.