Care free play

[Lee-Bee]

At 2.5 years (31months) is the 'average' child supposed to be able to go off and play, care free for a period of time? I can't tell if my DCG girl is really struggling with this concept or if she is in the norm for her age and my daughter is just really good at it (27months) and making my DCG look bad!

DCG is from an AP home, she is not really given the chance to go off and play, she is either being held, entertained or has the tv on (mom says she doesn't play on her own at all).

Here I have periods of time where they are expected to go off and play while I tend to the house (I only have the one DCG now to allow me to do this). She struggles greatly. It's been 9 months of my only having the 2 girls (one is my own) so this isn't a new expectation. She has improved...as in she will now go to another room for 30seconds then come back to check on me, tell me what I am doing, tell herself she is supposed to go play then repeat the process. She knows she is supposed to play but she can't just relax and play. Our home is farily open concept and the main play area is right there so she knows where I am the majority of the time so it is not a matter of thinking I am 'gone'.

When she does sit and play it is still very, basic and just very concrete. Put toy in it's appropriate spot. take toy out, return toy.

It pains me to see she is struggling with just being carefree and off in her own world of play.

Is this normal at this age? As much as we have structured activities and art projects and learning time and circle time and all that I make a point of having chunks of time for them to just go off, explore play and do their own thing. My daughter can disappear for 45minutes without a care in the world. She re-enacts life, make believes and all that. It is still at a basic level but it is leaps ahead of her friend that is 4months older.

Any thoughts? How can I get her to advance her play and just relax and play on her own? I know time will eventually help...she has made gains since the fall but not nearly as much as I would think she would.

I am just trying to touch base to see if other DCK are playing at a different level or if she is in fact in the normal range of play for her age and my expectations are off!

[AmandaKDT]

I think this fits under the "every child is different" (developmentally, socially, emotionally) category, not necessarily that they are an AP home or only child, etc. Some kids don't care if there is an adult/parent close by, and others have a really hard time with this. Heading off to a totally different part of the house, out of sight, and expecting a 2 year old to be totally content with this is a big expectation.

You might need to either lower your expectations or alter how you do your chores during the day.

Having only two kids, expecially both under 3, can make it harder for them to keep themselves busy for long periods of time independently.

[bright sparks]

I have an AP child who has huge problems playing alone. He is fine in the group because they are a very busy group of boys and he goes with the flow. He is very good at imaginary play. When he is dropped off first, he is at a loss what to do and regularly ends up crying. He has been here for 18 mths and is 2 1/2. My kids have babysat him at home because his parents needed to get housework done and he isn't able to amuse himself independently. I think the AP has something to do with it in my case, although the principals of AP say a child won't struggle with becoming independent although Attachment parenting has many variables depending on the parents. I think to generalize the AP approach is not fair, as everyone has their own approach to AP, but I definitely see a pattern with AP kids in this area.

Maybe because there is only two of them and one is your daughter too makes it different than my experience. There isn't as much going on in terms of a busy group of multiple preschoolers. I'd be inclined to talk to her parents and just let them know your observations. If they are open to suggestions, ask them to make a point of not jumping at the slightest thing at home, even if there doesn't seem to be a reason to say no or delay helping. Ask them to refuse to help her at times to force her to face a situation independently. I'm not saying neglect her when she needs them but to set some clear boundaries on when she really does need adult support, and when it is a good opportunity for her to develop her independent skills in a safe and healthy manner. It seems like this may have been inhibited by the AP approach these parents are taking and this is how it is showing. At her age I wouldn't be super worried, but I would definitely be working hard to correct this but if her parents aren't then it will be a huge struggle. Poor kid

[Lee-Bee]

I think this fits under the "every child is different" (developmentally, socially, emotionally) category, not necessarily that they are an AP home or only child, etc. Some kids don't care if there is an adult/parent close by, and others have a really hard time with this. Heading off to a totally different part of the house, out of sight, and expecting a 2 year old to be totally content with this is a big expectation.

You might need to either lower your expectations or alter how you do your chores during the day.

Having only two kids, expecially both under 3, can make it harder for them to keep themselves busy for long periods of time independently.

But as I noted our main floor is open concept. She can see me from the majority of the main floor including the room where I keep the majority of the toys. I also sit in the room they are in to fold laundry and such. Even with me in the room she stands there looking lost.

It is not just her not being comfortable with being alone...that could very well be part of it. But, I can sit and pull out an activity (say the trains) help set it up...slide back and read and she just sits staring at it like she doesn't know what to do. She will hold a train and sit. She seemingly gets no enjoyment out of play. This is a concern. This is what I am addressing...is this 'normal' with this age group in other's experience because to me it is concerning and needs to be addressed.


I don't think changing the expectation that a 2.5 yr old is to play on their own helps matters any.

I could sit and read more books in the room she is in...but that doesn't get her playing anymore than my being in another part of the house cleaning. She is still standing/sitting around, playing for a minute or two in a rigid manner then back to coming to tell me what I am doing and that she needs to go play. She knows to go play but she doesn't know how.

I am wondering if this is more the norm for this age in which case we'll just continue as is and over time she'll learn. If it is not the norm and most kids this age can go off and play freely then I will need to look at why she can't and try to aid her in gaining that ability. If it is related to how the parents interact with her and don't give her that freedom then it will be a different approach than if she has delay or anxiety or whatnot. I see no benefit from sitting side by side with a 2.5yr old all day. That will just keep the problem going. Kids are meant to play...they NEED to let the world go and just get lost in make believe play, in re-enacting their life, in being able to enjoy the freedom of play. They have the rest of their lives to be directed in everything they do!

[Lee-Bee]

I have an AP child who has huge problems playing alone. He is fine in the group because they are a very busy group of boys and he goes with the flow. He is very good at imaginary play. When he is dropped off first, he is at a loss what to do and regularly ends up crying. He has been here for 18 mths and is 2 1/2. My kids have babysat him at home because his parents needed to get housework done and he isn't able to amuse himself independently. I think the AP has something to do with it in my case, although the principals of AP say a child won't struggle with becoming independent although Attachment parenting has many variables depending on the parents. I think to generalize the AP approach is not fair, as everyone has their own approach to AP, but I definitely see a pattern with AP kids in this area.

Maybe because there is only two of them and one is your daughter too makes it different than my experience. There isn't as much going on in terms of a busy group of multiple preschoolers. I'd be inclined to talk to her parents and just let them know your observations. If they are open to suggestions, ask them to make a point of not jumping at the slightest thing at home, even if there doesn't seem to be a reason to say no or delay helping. Ask them to refuse to help her at times to force her to face a situation independently. I'm not saying neglect her when she needs them but to set some clear boundaries on when she really does need adult support, and when it is a good opportunity for her to develop her independent skills in a safe and healthy manner. It seems like this may have been inhibited by the AP approach these parents are taking and this is how it is showing. At her age I wouldn't be super worried, but I would definitely be working hard to correct this but if her parents aren't then it will be a huge struggle. Poor kid

I have nothing against AP and used a fair amount of the AP approach with our daughter. I do believe, and have stated this before, that there is a strong difference between AP and parenting in a manner that means never saying no, never setting a limit and never letting a child whimper. But I won't go into my rant on that!

Sadly talking to the parents will not help matters. I am still trying to point out that letting their child get only 7 hours of sleep in a day is not in the child's best interest and that the child may sleep more if getting out of bed for more snacks and more Netflix isn't an option every evening until 11pm when mom finally goes to bed with the child. She still only naps in the car or being rocked for them because she was never taught how to lie down and sleep. But, mom doesn't like the child crying and mom doesn't set limits (as in it is bedtime you need to stay in bed). Telling her to not carry the child around, or make the child go play on her own when the child doesn't want to is just not going to happen. It is not worth approaching because I already try to nudge on the sleep front because I know how much the child needs to sleep.

This is why I am trying to find out if this is normal...if this is related to home's approach or if it is child specific and I can somehow help on my end. I am not bashing AP parenting. I am trying to find out if this is related to it or if this is of concern or not so I know how to approach it on my end!

[bright sparks]

I have nothing against AP and used a fair amount of the AP approach with our daughter. I do believe, and have stated this before, that there is a strong difference between AP and parenting in a manner that means never saying no, never setting a limit and never letting a child whimper. But I won't go into my rant on that!

Sadly talking to the parents will not help matters. I am still trying to point out that letting their child get only 7 hours of sleep in a day is not in the child's best interest and that the child may sleep more if getting out of bed for more snacks and more Netflix isn't an option every evening until 11pm when mom finally goes to bed with the child. She still only naps in the car or being rocked for them because she was never taught how to lie down and sleep. But, mom doesn't like the child crying and mom doesn't set limits (as in it is bedtime you need to stay in bed). Telling her to not carry the child around, or make the child go play on her own when the child doesn't want to is just not going to happen. It is not worth approaching because I already try to nudge on the sleep front because I know how much the child needs to sleep.

This is why I am trying to find out if this is normal...if this is related to home's approach or if it is child specific and I can somehow help on my end. I am not bashing AP parenting. I am trying to find out if this is related to it or if this is of concern or not so I know how to approach it on my end!

I'm not sure if you are going to find a clear answer. To find out if something is "normal" is really difficult. Normal as a generalization, I'd say no, but I think it's a foolish guess given that I don't know this child and haven't observed them. You know this child so I'd go with what you see as the norm. I think most kids are able to play independently at this age at least on some scale allowing for variances in personality type and parenting style used at home, and I do think the parenting style you just described is likely the cause at least for the most part. It may simply be something this child grows out of, most likely to be honest, and AP really doesn't have anything to do with it in my opinion. Just what you described in your last post doesn't really mesh with AP principals regardless of my opinion of the parenting style. Sounds like maybe they have created some of this issues at first with clingy parenting/hip baby/oversensitive response to needs and excessive pacifying, and now don't want the headache of correcting the behaviour so continue to pacify her.

Can't imagine there is much you can do to help given the extremes that are happening at home. Normal is never a word I use. Even on a scale of "norm" to establish if a child is on track with developmental milestones is no longer proving useful. Kids are changing at a rapid rate from this generation to the last and I find more and more kids are breaking from this out of date "norm" standard currently in place. I have had kids scream many symptoms of being on the spectrum with numerous delays and it has turned out to be a product of circumstance and how they are nurtured at home, not an actual developmental delay which has gradually rectified once in school, not without repercussions I'm sure. Nature vs Nurture maybe....this is a tricky situation to be in to be able to help the child. Good Luck

[bright sparks]

I have nothing against AP and used a fair amount of the AP approach with our daughter. I do believe, and have stated this before, that there is a strong difference between AP and parenting in a manner that means never saying no, never setting a limit and never letting a child whimper. But I won't go into my rant on that!

Sadly talking to the parents will not help matters. I am still trying to point out that letting their child get only 7 hours of sleep in a day is not in the child's best interest and that the child may sleep more if getting out of bed for more snacks and more Netflix isn't an option every evening until 11pm when mom finally goes to bed with the child. She still only naps in the car or being rocked for them because she was never taught how to lie down and sleep. But, mom doesn't like the child crying and mom doesn't set limits (as in it is bedtime you need to stay in bed). Telling her to not carry the child around, or make the child go play on her own when the child doesn't want to is just not going to happen. It is not worth approaching because I already try to nudge on the sleep front because I know how much the child needs to sleep.

This is why I am trying to find out if this is normal...if this is related to home's approach or if it is child specific and I can somehow help on my end. I am not bashing AP parenting. I am trying to find out if this is related to it or if this is of concern or not so I know how to approach it on my end!

BTW, I wasn't implying you had anything against AP or were bashing them. It was more with respect to babydoms comments about an AP child having the inability to be independent...or something along those lines... which is a common misconception and is not actually the case. It's more a reflection of how AP is carried out and I still stand firm that many people don't choose AP and do their research to make it a healthy parenting style, but use it as an excuse for pacifying their child and being lazy...yes that is right, I said it lol

[Suzie_Homemaker]

Not typical of age but typical of AP child. Every AP child I had has difficulties sleeping if laid down awake, difficulties having to wait for something they need if more than one wanting, difficulties not getting immediate attention which not possible if changing different child and always, difficulties entertain self.

Now I make sure to ask about parenting view on these things and if AP child, I not take. Unfair to others when one demand first attention all time.

[5 Little Monkeys]

I've lucked out....I can't think of any child I've had that didn't like free play once they were about 18-20 months+. I've had a few that get bored/silly/destructible if they had too much but I don't think I've had any that didn't know how to free play.

[Lee-Bee]

BTW, I wasn't implying you had anything against AP or were bashing them. It was more with respect to babydoms comments about an AP child having the inability to be independent...or something along those lines... which is a common misconception and is not actually the case. It's more a reflection of how AP is carried out and I still stand firm that many people don't choose AP and do their research to make it a healthy parenting style, but use it as an excuse for pacifying their child and being lazy...yes that is right, I said it lol

You said it...I think it and see it all the time! I do believe that AP can be great...but I don't know that I ever really see it in action how it was meant to be. The variations of what I see are what you describe (ever so eloquently) and it does bother me as they call it AP, giving AP a bad rap.

Anywyas...my post wasn't really about 'AP' but I did put it in there as I wanted to know if others were finding the same with their families that practice AP. Clearly they are as I've yet to say their AP children are able to play easily on their own. In which case I will just continue on as is and hope that with more and more time free play will start to come naturally.

I totally understand the dislike of the word 'normal' and that is why I usually put it in quotes. There is no normal when it comes to people, especially children but I just use it to get my question across...'typical' 'average' 'acceptable' any of those words can kind of be used as well. Basically should I be concerned with the lack of play at this age or not! I don't want to just wait until she is 4 and going off to school to realize there were some big red flags I didn't try to help address and should have!

She is a great kid and her family loves her dearly. They drive me bonkers with how they do things but what they do at home is up to them, I offer advice when it is asked but otherwise try to keep out of it. It is up to me to decide if their way of doing things makes them a poor match for me. So far it doesn't as the child has adapted enough to work with us here. She naps 1.5-2hrs a day and most days begs me to go up to bed hours before nap time as she knows she will get a good nap in and feel better. She is capable of a lot, if the adults around her have the expectations that she can.

[Fun&care]

Sadly talking to the parents will not help matters. I am still trying to point out that letting their child get only 7 hours of sleep in a day is not in the child's best interest and that the child may sleep more if getting out of bed for more snacks and more Netflix isn't an option every evening until 11pm when mom finally goes to bed with the child.

There is your problem right there!!!! How can a child be expected to develop normally while only getting 7 hours of sleep at night when the range for this age is usually 10-12 hours?!?! It's no wonder the kid isn't playing, she is exhausted!

As for AP.... I did AP with my own kids and they never had any problem playing independently but I think that's because I expected them to. They knew from a young age that if mommy was busy you went and played alone for a bit.

But some parents do take AP a little too far and do anything and everything for their child and just never let them develop any independence whatsoever. It's rampant in this day and age in my experidence at least...ppl just go overboard and "sMother" their kids, I've had so many clients like this. It often does result in a lack of independence even though it's supposed to make kids MORE independent. I should say, too, that ive had a few clients who were following AP but didn't even know it so really, you don't even need the AP label.

But seriously though...something needs to change in the sleep department...I'm sure you would see huge improvement.

[Lee-Bee]

I have spent much time giving ideas, tips, trick and suggestions for sleep. Mom has asked for help many times. But, child protests and mom won't push.

Last time I was trying to help was 6 weeks after the time change and mom kept saying how the time change really messed the child up. So we attempted to get her back on track. The next day mom reports that child asked to go to bed at 7pm but it was 9:30 before she finally went down. I was like...ok what did the child do for those 2.5hours between when the child asked to sleep and when she went to sleep. Mom's response "oh, she got up and had more snacks and watched more Netflix we tried a few times in there to get her down" gahhhhhhh. Mom stopped asking for advise after that because I was like. Well, what child would choose to sleep when they have snacks and tv on the offer? I told they had set the routine where the child was allowed out of bed for snacks and tv and that the child would not decide to stop that routine without the mom making it clear bedtime means you go to bed and don't get out of bed until morning. I told her it would not be fun for either of them but without resetting the routine and expectations sleep would not improve.

Sleep has not improved mom has said that while the child is up really late still mom is ok with it because once she is asleep she is so tired she sleeps through till morning with less wake ups than before. So...to mom 7 ish hours of sleep with only 1-2 wake ups is easier than trying to get the child to get a full nights sleep.

There is no hope of making changes. It really, seriously will be up to the child to decide to sleep better later in life. Which is sad. The brain NEEDS sleep to learn. Her brain is not getting the sleep it needs and it WILL negatively impact her long term :-(

But...I can't change that all I can do is provide a good solid nap here.

I suppose this does indeed negatively impact the ability to play.

[flowerchild]

I have nothing against AP and used a fair amount of the AP approach with our daughter. I do believe, and have stated this before, that there is a strong difference between AP and parenting in a manner that means never saying no, never setting a limit and never letting a child whimper. But I won't go into my rant on that!


This gets a nice, slow clap. :D Amen, sista!

The poor child. She's probably so tired. :( Sleep is SO important. I'm surprised at the sheer number of people who don't value it or will prioritize their own needs over their child's sleep. It's sad really.

With regards to the free play, I would just keep reminding her that she needs to play "I have to make lunch right now. You can play with DD in the living room." and then redirect her back to the living room. Hopefully she'll figure it out. Not seeming to know what to do with trains etc makes me think mom is entertaining her/playing 'at' her instead of playing with her and encouraging the back and forth play. Does that make sense? Like mom plays with the toys and child just watches and enjoys instead of engaging in the play too?

[Lee-Bee]

This gets a nice, slow clap. :D Amen, sista!

The poor child. She's probably so tired. :( Sleep is SO important. I'm surprised at the sheer number of people who don't value it or will prioritize their own needs over their child's sleep. It's sad really.

With regards to the free play, I would just keep reminding her that she needs to play "I have to make lunch right now. You can play with DD in the living room." and then redirect her back to the living room. Hopefully she'll figure it out. Not seeming to know what to do with trains etc makes me think mom is entertaining her/playing 'at' her instead of playing with her and encouraging the back and forth play. Does that make sense? Like mom plays with the toys and child just watches and enjoys instead of engaging in the play too?

I know mom does a lot of baking with the child and they do a lot of activities that are great but they are adult directed, adult led and well, just structured. With how often mom says she doesn't play and how much mom talks about the child's favorite tv shows and how they do things I don't believe the child has time or expectation to PLAY. But, the child is here 35ish hours a week and I expect her to play so it isn't just she never gets the chance to play. She has had plenty of time, plenty of encouragement to play it just isn't clicking. She does now understand that she is expected to go play...that is why she comes, tells me what I am doing and that she needs to go play. It is because she has heard me tell her that so many times lol. So, she understands it is expected of her...it just isn't quite there though. In time I hope. I really hope. I would love nothing more than for her to just enjoy playing.

The mom always talks about how much the child LOVES to be outdoors. But, she doesn't do much outdoors she plays on the slide then is done. The child asks me all day to go play outside, when we get outside she asked me to go back in. They spend lots of time at the parks...but they go to 3 parks in one evening (mom is proud of this)!!! Which to me just tells me the child gets bored with the slide so they move to a new one (head shake). So, again it doesn't actually involve the need to play carefree.

Anyways, I guess I'll just continue with the expectation she goes off and plays. I'll continue rotating the toys and having age appropriate toys out. She is drawn to the toys with buttons. we have very few of these as I do not like them but some of our bigger doll houses have sound effect buttons. She will sit and push them. Like I say when she is playing it is at a basic level and just doesn't seem to be for enjoyment.

[Redhead]

I am fairly new to daycare and have been at home with my two kids. My eldest daughter who will be 4 shortly only began to play alone properly within the last 10 months. I have been a very hands-on mother and although we'd mixed with other kids at the Early Years Centre, we don't have any family or close friends nearby. I found that although I tried to show her by playing with her, she actually only learnt the concept properly after being with older children. Possibly the little girl in question would benefit from some older children to watch and copy? I realise this may not be a solution for you, but for me it was a game-changer! My second child (almost two) plays perfectly by himself, again only recently (past couple of months) as he's watched my daughter and the older DC kids.

[kindertime]

My suggestion would be that the screen time has more to do with the problem, than attachment parenting, (not that I know what it is, btw.) So much time disengaged from life, she is missing the opportunity to learn to entertain herself. I have found this too. Every child is different, of course, but I have seen a great increase over the years, of children who don't know how to play imaginatively. 4yr olds who do what you describe, pick up toy, shake it or bang it and then put toy down.

Since we don't watch any screens in my house, I figured I had to be Mr. Dressup, myself. Do you remember that show? He spent a great deal of time, playing. He would play with toys and describe what he was doing. Other shows like that too, Sesame street, The Friendly Giant, Mr Rogers, etc. (yah, I'm old) would all show scenes of kids just playing and interacting together.

I would go into the playroom or sit at the table and play. I might talk to the kids about something I was doing, but I might just as well talk to myself, as I was playing. It takes a bit of practise for me at this age, lol. I was modelling the behaviour I wanted to see in the kids. I have also increased the time we spend reading. We talk about what the people in the books are doing and I will often refer back to the books. It allows the kids to use their memories and imagination. Practise makes perfect!

Redhead's suggestion is good too, having an older child who knows how to play would help. But if that isn't an option, you could try being the older child.

[Lee-Bee]

My suggestion would be that the screen time has more to do with the problem, than attachment parenting, (not that I know what it is, btw.) So much time disengaged from life, she is missing the opportunity to learn to entertain herself. I have found this too. Every child is different, of course, but I have seen a great increase over the years, of children who don't know how to play imaginatively. 4yr olds who do what you describe, pick up toy, shake it or bang it and then put toy down.

Since we don't watch any screens in my house, I figured I had to be Mr. Dressup, myself. Do you remember that show? He spent a great deal of time, playing. He would play with toys and describe what he was doing. Other shows like that too, Sesame street, The Friendly Giant, Mr Rogers, etc. (yah, I'm old) would all show scenes of kids just playing and interacting together.

I would go into the playroom or sit at the table and play. I might talk to the kids about something I was doing, but I might just as well talk to myself, as I was playing. It takes a bit of practise for me at this age, lol. I was modelling the behaviour I wanted to see in the kids. I have also increased the time we spend reading. We talk about what the people in the books are doing and I will often refer back to the books. It allows the kids to use their memories and imagination. Practise makes perfect!

Redhead's suggestion is good too, having an older child who knows how to play would help. But if that isn't an option, you could try being the older child.

Great idea. I do remember Mr. Dress up...though barely. I have no interest in taking on another child and don't know of any older kids hanging around the neighborhood during the day to invite over. I can try to model how the toys can be used. Though, my daughter is doing this already for her to watch it is not as if she is here with a younger child that is not playing on their own and she is mimicking that. My daughter make believe plays, plays house and cares for dolls and on and on. My daughter is obsessed with sheep right now and has been carting around a giraffe calling it her sheep (we have no stuffed sheep) and singing all the sheep songs she knows and playing sheep and DCG just stands there perplexed trying to inform my daughter it isn't a sheep it is a giraffe lol. My daughter finally said, yes 'sheep-giraffe' then went back to playing sheep. I have explained why she is calling her giraffe sheep but she is still stuck on it being a giraffe.

I limit tv to about 20min a day and pretty much only play 'Mother Goose Club' these days. It is a bunch of kids singing and acting out nursery rhymes. My daughter loves it, has memorized dozens and dozens of the rhymes/sings and goes off and sings them and re-enacts them all day. We, of course, read the books and sing the songs a lot too. I find it eerie though how when I turn the show on DCG just sees me pick up the remotes, flies to the couch and lies down. Immobile. My daughter stands watching, spinning and jumping and singing and laughing when it's on...but it just seems like DCG has somehow learned that tv on means lie on couch and disconnect from the world. Could very well be a personality thing but it just kind of weirds me out!