Insurance help needed - opening daycare in someone else's home

[ReadySetGoPlayschool]

Hello everyone! I am opening up a new home day care and I feel as if I am in an insurance nightmare! The tricky thing is that I am the owner and operator of the business but it is not being run out of my house. The home owners children will be enrolled. I need a policy that covers me, my business, the property and the homeowners (because apparently the homeowners are liable no matter what because it is their home). Has anyone else done this and can offer any advice? I am in Toronto, will have a maximum of 5 kids between the ages of 2.5 and 6. 2 of those kids live in that house. The home owner and I are close friends so we are open to all different possibilities including having her sign on on paper to be a partner in the company if that makes things easier.
Help?!
Thanks!

Jenna
www.readysetgoplaysc hool.com

[Suzie_Homemaker]

Some carer here have rental home which they run daycare from. They have daycare insurance add to tenants insurance.

Try Wawanesa or TD Insurance. They seem okay with renters.

[playfelt]

What you are doing isn't really a home daycare. You will be the nanny for the person who owns the home but it is considered a nanny share situation. At the same time because more than one family is involved you will need to also follow the new childcare ratios in regards to ages and totals. Your children will count and may actually count differently since it is not your home. The home owner needs to get the ryder on her insurance and she in theory should be getting coverage for you for CPP, etc. as her nanny since you are in her home caring for her children. You for sure need to possibly get a legal ruling on just where things stand as what you are thinking is a simple situation is not. You will not be able to claim any of the expenses you incur in their home in terms of running the daycare because the new bill prevents operating a daycare out of a place that is not your own home without a license but at the same time you are not able to get a license for someone else's home. Might for sure want to rethink this situation if you wish to operate legally.

[kindertime]

I know you are asking about insurance, but perhaps the first thing to consider is your employment status. A home daycare provider is usually considered self-employed under CRA rules. A self-employed person is someone who can set their own work hours and conditions as well as setting their own compensation ie. money. Is this your situation? Is she paying you to look after her kids? Is she going to get a percentage of the fees from the other kids? You will likely need to look into a partnership. Contact CRA to find out what you can and cannot do.

[Suzie_Homemaker]

What you are doing isn't really a home daycare. You will be the nanny for the person who owns the home but it is considered a nanny share situation. At the same time because more than one family is involved you will need to also follow the new childcare ratios in regards to ages and totals. Your children will count and may actually count differently since it is not your home. The home owner needs to get the ryder on her insurance and she in theory should be getting coverage for you for CPP, etc. as her nanny since you are in her home caring for her children. You for sure need to possibly get a legal ruling on just where things stand as what you are thinking is a simple situation is not. You will not be able to claim any of the expenses you incur in their home in terms of running the daycare because the new bill prevents operating a daycare out of a place that is not your own home without a license but at the same time you are not able to get a license for someone else's home. Might for sure want to rethink this situation if you wish to operate legally.

I think we are reading this differently.

You seem to think she is sharing home with home owner, looking after owner's children and taking in more.

I think she's just renting a house and happens to have a friendship with the landlord/owner. Because she plans on opening a day care in the home she is renting, her friend is sending her children to her.

Can you clarify please, ReadySetGoPlayschool ?

[kindertime]

I am in Toronto, will have a maximum of 5 kids between the ages of 2.5 and 6. 2 of those kids live in that house.

The kids live in the house, so I would assume the parents do too. Now, why would anybody take on this kind of arrangement, I have no idea. It sounds like a disaster waiting to happen, but I'm a bit of a pessimist. Seems like a quick way to end a friendship... good luck.

[Suzie_Homemaker]

I was thinking the two who live in house were her own.

[ReadySetGoPlayschool]

Ouch. Some harsh and definitely worrisome replies. Hoping I can clear things up.

I have no children of my own. I am operating a home daycare of out someone else's home. 2 of the children enrolled in the daycare live in that house. We are entering into this arrangement because it is mutually beneficially - I get to have the career that I want and my house is not an appropriate place for a home daycare. She gets to have her kids with a caregiver that she trusts.

I will be self employed. I have set the hours, wage, etc. The home owner is paying the same price as everyone else and she is not earning a percentage of my income.

[ReadySetGoPlayschool]

Playfelt - Can you send me a link to the "new bill" you mentioned? I do wish to operate legally of course. We entered into this obviously thinking it was much simpler than it is.

[Lee-Bee]

The kids live in the house, so I would assume the parents do too. Now, why would anybody take on this kind of arrangement, I have no idea. It sounds like a disaster waiting to happen, but I'm a bit of a pessimist. Seems like a quick way to end a friendship... good luck.

I knew a provider here in Ottawa that did this. She ran a home daycare in one of the families homes. She benefited because she didn't have a home to run it from the family benefitted because their child was in a group setting but was still in their own home.

It can work. This before Bill 10 though, which does greatly complicate it!

[Suzie_Homemaker]

Ouch. Some harsh and definitely worrisome replies. Hoping I can clear things up.

I have no children of my own. I am operating a home daycare of out someone else's home. 2 of the children enrolled in the daycare live in that house. We are entering into this arrangement because it is mutually beneficially - I get to have the career that I want and my house is not an appropriate place for a home daycare. She gets to have her kids with a caregiver that she trusts.

I will be self employed. I have set the hours, wage, etc. The home owner is paying the same price as everyone else and she is not earning a percentage of my income.

Okay.

One more question then. Are you going to be living in the house or just running the day care from it?

If YOU don't live there, you aren't an in-home day care because it's not in YOUR home.

You won't be able to claim expenses for heat, water, etc that are your business costs because it's not your home.

Also, be careful. CRA will likely consider you are an employee because not running day home from YOUR home. This mean your friend has to follow Labour Standards rules. The rules they apply to determine if you employee or self employed is location of work (not your home), hours of work (likely affected by care hour your friend need) etc.

This more complicated than you think.

Link to CRA self-employed or employee : http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/E/pub/tg/rc4110/rc4110-14e.pdf

[ReadySetGoPlayschool]

So I have found Bill 10 which I now understand is replacing the Day Nurseries Act, but I can't find anything in there that makes my particular situation a problem. Can someone direct me?

[babydom]

So Susie is right. Because you do not live in the home you will not be considered a home daycare you would be considered a nanny. a nanny that takes on more than one family has to follow the new bill 10 rules so you cannot have more than five and out of that five you cannot have more than two under two. you will not be able to claim Hydro water grocery bills things of that matter as it is not your own. you should be paid as nanny from the parent who owns the home then the other kids that come in will just pay you as well and you can provide them a receipt to claim as daycare and you will claim it as income and pay taxes on all of it at the end of the year. the family that owns the home I would give a discount to as you're running a business from there and using their house and their toys and they have to share everything plus use their water and hydro during the day for everyone so their bills will go up. I have done this arrangement before and it actually worked out really well the only thing I found hard was when the family that owned the home was sick or the kids were sick I still had to go there and take the other three kids while those kids and parents were home sick...it was a bit awkward , trying to keep the kids quiet while they rest and hearing them puke and such....lol. Also make sure you have a written contract with the people that own the home and all the daycare parents so if anything were to go sour everything is in writing to cover yourself. Good luck with everything. :)

[playfelt]

Start with things like location - illegal to operate a dayhome from a place other than your own home without having the other place licensed as a day nursery. You are a nanny to the other family and need to be treated as such. If the other family allows other people into the home then the age rules take effect because regardless of who is looking after them (home owner or you). What you will find is there are a lot of little areas mentioned that will effect your situation. What isn't beneficial to you in this situation is that you can not deduct any expenses for the program since it is the home owner providing space, toys, etc. While a situation like you are wanting to do was possible before bill 10 it is not possible now without following new rules. This is copied from the frequently asked questions form that was sent out -

Q. What about Nannies? Can they share families? Are they considered daycare providers?

A. Nannies are only allowed to care for one family at a time. If they choose to ‘nanny share’ they are then considered Daycare providers and must follow the rules under the CCEYA.

[ReadySetGoPlayschool]

Sounds like an easy work around here is to have the home owner be a partner in my business.

Thanks for all of the replies everyone!