New Daycare Rules...confused parent

[mom22]

Hi there!

I'm a mom in Ontario- not a provider but I've asked different Moms around me and no one knows the answer so I thought I would try here.

My oldest is starting JK in September and the boys' daycare provider (unlicensed) doesn't mind taking him before and after school. (a total of 3 hrs)

The provider will have 5 kids already, all her children are older than 13.
This means the provider will have a total of 6 kids before and after school with two under two. (5 without my oldest there)

If I'm reading the new rules right, school children now count toward the max number of kids? Just not sure if I should look for a new before and after care for my son- the school one is terrible and I'd rather not send him there. The provider has no issues taking my son before and after school.

Thanks!

[cfred]

If your child is under 13 years of age then he is still considered a child under CCEYA. I am assuming that you are not counting her children (over 13 yrs) in the 5 children you say she already has? If all 5 of the children you are referring to are daycare children, then what she is offering is illegal. She is never, ever, EVER allowed more than 5 daycare children under 13 yrs. Yes, find alternate care. Any insurance she has will be null and void during times of non-compliance. Not to mention the fact that this is exactly the type of behaviour that brought about Bill 10 to begin with and ruined it for everyone else. Chances are she'll be reported by someone who is none too pleased about all these changes and why they came about.

[CrazyEight]

CFred is right, she will be illegal if your child makes 6 daycare children at one time.

School-age children have ALWAYS counted in daycare totals. Before the new rules, they counted until age 10, now they will count until age 13. It has been a common misconception - providers either actually don't think school-age children count, or they pretend they don't and tell parents that, but it has never mattered how long a daycare child is in care for - the rule has always been 5 daycare children at one time, no matter what.

If all her own children are over age 6, then she's fine there, and is allowed her 2 under 2 daycare children as part of her total of 5. That's all fine. But if your child will make 6 daycare children, then pull him out of there. Better to know your child is in a safe, legal environment than risk her getting found out and shut down, and you being left scrambling mid-way through the school year.

Further, exactly what cfred said - it is providers like this who are willing to "bend" the rules that have brought all these changes about and forced many good providers to shut their doors or reduce their numbers to count their own children. Letting her get away with it is adding to the problem.

[mom22]

I thought so. I couldn't see taking a 6th child even if it was for a few hours. We'll go with the school daycare, we're enrolled with the school daycare already as most daycares around my area don't take school age. I've heard things I don't like about the school daycare but there's nothing else in this area unless we travel but that would be too hectic with the two kids. School is on the way to work so we'll drop DS2 at daycare and then DS1 at school. It would have been nice to have one drop/pick up!

Thanks!

[pooch]

CFred is right, she will be illegal if your child makes 6 daycare children at one time.

School-age children have ALWAYS counted in daycare totals. Before the new rules, they counted until age 10, now they will count until age 13. It has been a common misconception - providers either actually don't think school-age children count, or they pretend they don't and tell parents that, but it has never mattered how long a daycare child is in care for - the rule has always been 5 daycare children at one time, no matter what.

If all her own children are over age 6, then she's fine there, and is allowed her 2 under 2 daycare children as part of her total of 5. That's all fine. But if your child will make 6 daycare children, then pull him out of there. Better to know your child is in a safe, legal environment than risk her getting found out and shut down, and you being left scrambling mid-way through the school year.

Further, exactly what cfred said - it is providers like this who are willing to "bend" the rules that have brought all these changes about and forced many good providers to shut their doors or reduce their numbers to count their own children. Letting her get away with it is adding to the problem.

So what you are saying is that if she has 5 school age children who come to her from say 7:30 to 8:30 and then again from 3:00 to 6:00 then she is NOT allowed ANY other children, EVEN if someone is needing a spot say from 9:00 to 3:00 she can not accept them????? What is she suppose to do the whole day from 9:00 to 3:00 twiddle her thumbs....

Just wondering NOT trying to step on any toes here..... I'm just thinking that is what OP is trying to ask.....

[Lee-Bee]

The children can not overlap. So she takes the risk of a bus running late or dropping off early if she has a set of daytime children and a set of school age children. The law will not distinguish a late bus from a caregiver purposely with too many children. But yes, a caregiver could have a full set of school age kids and a set of daytime kids that come and go during the school day.

I would think the reality of pulling that off are mighty slim. There are not that many families looking for care from 9-3.

[Busy ECE mommy]

5 daycare kids in total. The only way that might work is if your child is before/after,and she has a child fill in the time in between those hours, but they couldn't overlap to make 6 kids.

[CrazyEight]

If there is no overlap, sure she can have 5 school-agers and 5 during the day - BUT if any of them overlapped for even 5 minutes she would be breaking the law. There aren't very many parents who only need care during school hours. A provider can have as many kids enrolled as she likes, AS LONG AS she never has more than 5 (counting her own under age 6) at one time. If your provider already has 5 children and wants to add your son, with all of the other 5 being there already, she is breaking the law.

[BlueRose]

Have you asked if all 5 kids will still be in her care come next September when your son starts school? If so are they all there full-time? Are any of them between 10 yrs and 12 yrs old ? Children between the ages of 10-12 yrs don't count in a providers numbers until August 31, 2017.

Just because she has 5 kids now doesn't mean she will have them all come next September. Definitely talk to the provider. If you feel that she is going to be running illegally then definitely find a new provider. Right now there could just be a misunderstanding since September is so far way.

[madmom]

the children between 10 and 13 don't count ONLY IF they were already at that daycare. New children count as of now